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Mom Kills 5-Year-Old With Salt; A Handoff to Craiglist Stranger; Dr. Oz Grilled On Miracle Drugs; Celebs Posting Pics of IV Vitamin Treatments; Life-Saving Selfie

Aired July 3, 2014 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, everyone knows you can buy almost anything on Craigslist, but would you use it as a taxi service for your

child? One mom gave her son to a man she had never met. Find out what happened next.

And, physician to physician, I have some thoughts on Dr. Oz`s grilling on Capitol Hill. Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Good evening, Samantha Schacher of course my cohost. Tonight, we have salt mom, so-called salt mom, woman accused of poisoning her own

child, poisoning him and he ultimately died.

Coming up, we`ll hear from one of the mom`s former friends.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, Dr. Drew, I`ve heard what this former friend has had to say and it is telling.

PINSKY: Oh interesting. All right, we`ll get into that. That young mother`s social media post about her five-year-old`s medical issues are

putting a spotlight on a devastating mental illness. I`ll tell you about it, and, tonight, a little boy is dead, his mother Lacey Spears, is accused

of this murder. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five-year-old Garnett Spears, the young mom would tell people Garnett required a feeding tube because of a chronic GI


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s alleged that Lacey may have placed salt in his tube to sicken her son and gain sympathy for herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And investigators say the 26-year-old poisoned her son with sodium.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She used social media to report Garnett`s medical crisis in the hospital. And her emotional reaction to it. It was reported

that investigators found high levels of sodium in one of those feeding bags inside their apartment.


PINSKY: These photos are from Facebook you just saw there. Joining us, Vanessa Barnett from; Niki Noto, TV host and reporter;

Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell."

Sam, let`s go over what kind of social media she was expressing and how she used it.

SCHACHER: She used her Twitter and Facebook accounts like journal entries, basically trying to document her son`s health and illnesses. And she

gained a lot of popularity, a big following, people giving her attention because they were vested in his progress. And Dr. Drew, also she had a

blog; it was called "Garnet`s Journey," with the subtitle, get ready of this, quote, "Healing takes courage and we all have courage even if we have

to dig a little to find it."

Also, a lot of people are blaming social media for enabling this mom. But I disagree. Listen, we`re all on social media, narcissists, people with

mental illness, criminals; it doesn`t mean it`s creating them. I think it`s just showcasing their symptoms.

PINSKY: Niki, you`re nodding yes?

NIKI NOTO, TV HOST & REPORTER: Yes. I absolutely agree. I do not blame this on social media. I blame this on someone that is truly medically ill.

She needs help. And it`s sad to me that, you know what, Facebook has become diarrhea of the mouth of your diary, if you will. Hey, I walked the

dog; hey, I`m eating right now.

PINSKY: Diarrhea of the diary.

NOTO: You know what I mean? It truly has. And it`s sad to me that people have recognized her erratic behavioral patterns and didn`t really step up

to the plate to notify someone saying, you know, this is a serious issue. And sadly we lost a child in all of this. And very devastating.

PINSKY: And, Loni, if indeed the mom did have volitional contribution to this kid`s death, once again we`re hearing a story of signs on social media

that people ignored.

NOTO: Right.

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Over and over again, not just on social media but she was constantly taking this young child into the hospital, 23

times during his first year of life supposedly. And over and over again you see that the hospital officials saw that there was something wrong

here, and yet nobody really seemed to follow up and kept putting this little child in danger, leaving it with the mother.

PINSKY: All right, I want to bring in pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd. Vanessa, I`ll get your opinion in just a second, but I`ve got to try to

make sense of this.

Dr. Lloyd, I still don`t know what this chronic GI condition, so-called, that the kid had that he required a feeding tube in his abdomen. They had

to put a tube into his abdomen that the mother then allegedly used to put high levels of salt in, causing something called hypernatremia, which can

cause the brain to swell.

DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): It`s a characterization of factitious (ph) illness, factitious illness where you could be phony and

have make believe systems to confuse the doctors, or real symptoms and signs, but they`re fabricated.

And, in this case, the mother consciously gave the child salt through the feeding tube to raise the sodium levels so high that he developed seizures,

cerebral hemorrhages, hemorrhages in his brain, and leading to his death.

PINSKY: Vanessa, I still have trouble believing that -- isn`t it possible, in anybody`s head -- is it possible -- again, as always, I`m sort of -- if

somebody is doing evil stuff I have trouble digesting it. Isn`t it possible this kid has some sort of salt wasting syndrome previously

undiagnosed by the doctors? The mom in desperation was giving him high salt fluids?

VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I don`t believe so. It`s just too extreme for it to be something that the doctors just happened to miss over

and over. I mean, he went to the hospital 23 times. It`s really hard to miss something 23 times.

And I know no one wants to blame social media, but we`re sitting here saying that all of the signs were there. And when you have a disease like

they`re saying she may have had Munchausen`s syndrome, you can`t be on social networking, because your whole disease is about attention and

seeking people`s love and adoration and feeling story for you. So when you`re on Facebook and you`re getting all these likes and you`re on

Instagram and you`re getting all these likes and friends and followers, it`s feeding this disease. And so we can`t excuse what social media means

in this situation.

PINSKY: Loni, is this murder?

COOMBS: Yes, it is. The way they`ve charged it is depraved murder, which doesn`t require it`s an intentional killing. She didn`t have to intend to

kill the child. She was just so extremely reckless, that`s the standard, that what she did, that she ended up killing her child.

And if she was doing this for attention, whatever reason, but she giving him these levels of deadly salt, saline, that ended up causing his death,

that`s depraved murder.

And Dr. Drew, when the police investigated their home, they found, on the computer, she was researching the effects of this type of salt in the

child. And when they were in the hospital, she sent a friend to go get the feeding bag that had the evidence of the salt in it to destroy it. Thank

heavens the neighbor gave it to the police.

PINSKY: I`m speechless.

SCHACHER: Went too far.

PINSKY: People confuse me when they do horrible things. I understand this condition. I`m going to bring in the behavior bureau to help me

understand. Vanessa mentioned Munchausen`s; Munchausen`s is a condition where people seek multiple surgeries. There`s a similar syndrome call

Burkette`s (ph) where people feign medical illnesses or do things to themselves to give them medical illnesses.

And then there`s Burkette`s (ph) or Munchausen`s by proxy, where they make a kid sick so the parent gets the attention. And I`ve never seen something

go to these lengths to get -- to kill a kid. Behavior bureau tries to makes sense of this.

Later I`ve got some thoughts on the Dr. Oz testimony on Capitol Hill. He had a rough day and I have some strong feelings. Be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She used social media to report Garnett`s medical crisis in the hospital and her emotional reaction to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had a seizure this morning and wasn`t around anything that should have caused one. Please pray for my little prince. He has

another bad ear infection. Poor baby boy.

Garnett`s mommy is hoping the doctors can figure out what`s going on today.

Headed to the doctor for the third time today.

My sweet angel is in the hospital for the 23rd time. Please pray he gets to come home soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lacey used to write about her son`s health battles on Facebook.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Garnett the Great journeyed onward today at 10:20 a.m.


PINSKY: All right, I`m back with Sam and we`re discussing how a mother, so to speak, may have used Facebook or Twitter to document her son`s medical

demise, his problems and his death.

As I said, let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University; Erica America, Z100

personality on radio and psychotherapist; and Jennifer Keitt, life coach.

Erica, again, I can think of ten ways that we`re making a mistake here. I can think of ten different GI conditions that would be extremely difficult

to diagnose and a mom who`s desperate to replace fluids and goes to the internet and looks at sodium replacement and salt and what it can do to the

kid and doesn`t know what she`s doing. She`s a dilettante. Gets into it and kills this kid accidentally.

I can think of ways that can happen. I have trouble believing a mother would go to these lengths and kill a kid.

ERICA AMERICA, Z100 PERSONALITY: OK, so we don`t know yet, we don`t have enough evidence to know that she was making her kid sick on purpose, but it

does line up with Munchausen`s by proxy, which is a form of child abuse where you make someone sick, whether it`s your child, it doesn`t have to be

a child, it can be a husband, an older person. And you make them sick for some sort of gain; in this case, it was attention. It was the love and the

attention she was getting on the internet.

Now, what I`m wondering is what triggered this? Was there abuse when as a child and she sort of was getting control by kind controlling what was

going on?

PINSKY: Well, hold on, hold on. We have some evidence about that. Jennifer, you have that history, don`t you? About her being a caretaker of

all of the adults in her life?

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Yes and I`m wondering acting out of that need to be able to do something for herself, that does make sense. It almost,

the story almost kind of has to unfold, to me, way back before she even got pregnant with the child. Because for the five years that she had him,

there was this series of saga -- tweets and posts and things going on. And maybe it did come out that situation in which she had so many people she

was caring for so long, maybe it was her turn to be in the spotlight.

PINSKY: Samantha?

KEITT: That`s sick.

SCHACHER: Yes, this woman is a horrible person.

PINSKY: If she did all of this, she is, that`s true.

SCHACHER: There is a history here, though. There`s a huge history of this woman who`s invented lies. She -- the poor kid never got to meet his dad

because she pretended that her husband, the love of her life and her child`s dad died, so she could get a lot of attention and sympathy from the

community. And then you see this escalate to what he did to the kid.

You heard what Loni said. She looked it up on the computers. Why did she try to dispose of the evidence?

PINSKY: Judy, I`m getting ill. What`s wrong with me that I`m in such denial about this woman. I`m in denial. Help me.

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Dr. Drew, it`s because you want to believe that human beings are inherently good and they would never do something

like that on purpose. But what we`re seeing the portrait of a desperate woman who has no other identity than that she is a caretaker and thinks she

will have no other value to anyone else if she`s not this person.

And what we see from her, too, before she even had her own child, is that she was claiming to be the mother of another child she called John John. I

mean, this is sort of where she comes from in terms of who she is, how she validates herself. And she`ll go to any extreme to do this, as we can see

now. 20-something times the first year that this baby was born.

PINSKY: I need a barf bag, I need a bag, I do. Erica, what do you say?

AMERICA: I`m just saying I just feel like I`m feeling a lack of empathy from you all. And I`m not saying it wasn`t absolutely horrible what she

did, but this is a mentally ill woman, disordered personality. And it`s not evil. She wasn`t doing this on purpose. Many people who have

Munchausen`s are not aware of what they`re doing.


PINSKY: Here`s where I get off the rail a bit. Erica, I want to agree with you; however, the fact that she was doing this for specific personal

gain to get attention is really what`s so distasteful about it. And it`s really sort of so indicative of our times.

AMERICA: She still needs punished but she needs treatment as well.

PINSKY: And in the eyes of the law, she`s a murderer. And sort of those two things are so distasteful. I want to be empathetic.

Let me give you a couple of seconds on what happens to that poor kid`s brain too. The brain sits in that salt solution and the sodium and water

balance in that solution can get too high or too low. In this case, when you give salt and then restrict access to water, the sodium goes up, the

brain swells. Many times, it can. It`s in a shell, I took the top off of the shell. When it swells, it comes up against the bone, called the

calvaria, this thing right here which is obviously the wrong size for it, but it squishes the brain. And it can be devastating. And there can be

other complications as well, as we heard there were bleeding of the brain and seizures.

SCHACHER: Lock her up. I have no empathy for this woman whatsoever. If she had a mental illness, then she should have gotten herself treatment.

This poor kid.

HO: And, Sam, you know, there`s been a lot of cases where Munchausen`s by proxy individuals are locked up. This is absolutely considered murder. It

doesn`t matter that she`s mentally ill.

KEITT: Absolutely.

PINSKY: I`ve dealt with these -- Munchausen`s, Burkette`s (ph), I`ve dealt with these proxy cases. They`re extremely frustrating for physicians.

They are very anxiety-provoking. They make you feel terrible and helpless.

Next up, a mom uses Craigslist as a taxi service for a nine-year-old kid. Please, next, hit us up with a like for Facebook. We have a lot of new

stuff there, including a daily aftershow. We`ll talk about stuff we cannot say on television; maybe this topic will come back up. You can direct us

what to talk about on the aftershow as well there. Be back after this.


PINSKY: Back with Sam, Judy, Vanessa and Niki. Another mom is put in jail for trying to put her nine-year-old son on a road trip with a stranger.

She needed to get a ride for her son from Marietta, Georgia, to his grandparents` house to Macon, Georgia, about two hours south of Atlanta.

She found a man where else but on Craigslist. This man was willing to take a road trip; he was on his way to Sarasota, Florida, and pick his passenger

up. But when this guy that she met on Craigslist realized his passenger would be a nine-year-old boy, he called police. And on the day of the

meetup, a babysitter arrived to hand off the boy to this driver, and cops intervened, arrested the mom later today.

So my question, Vanessa, is this crime or poor judgment?


PINSKY: Crime.

BARNETT: Crime all day long. I don`t know the technical term for this crime but she should be locked up. Clearly it`s way past poor decision-

making skills. And then on top of hiring some man she doesn`t know, the audacity to not even show up and see what his face looks like. But this

would be the same girl complaining if he did something to her son, if he took him away and she never saw him again, and then she would want our

sympathy and, oh, my baby`s missing. No, you`re disgusting. You deserve to be in jail because you don`t care about your child at all.

PINSKY: Again, Niki, let me play the other side here and say are we just - - we`re just unenlightened. We`re just old-timers, Craigslist is a place - - it`s a marketplace. You can get all kind of things there. Who is to say you can`t meet someone -- and by the way, as this story played out, the guy

she met on Craigslist, very responsible. He turns out to be a hero here.

NOTO: Right? I hope that guy is relaxing on the beach somewhere in Florida with a cold beer in hand. Because let me tell you, I use

Craigslist to sell furniture. You can buy some things on it. I`m glad to see it so versatile these days that, hey, you know what? Breaking: You can

put your kid in a car with a stranger and go from Georgia to Florida for a little joyride.

All I have to say is I agree with Vanessa, this woman, she needs to be locked. And again kudos for this guy for being responsible and actually

giving Craigslist a little bit of a good name.

PINSKY: Well, Sam, I`m going to ask you the same question. As I read through the lines on Niki`s comments, she uses Craigslist, whatever. OK.

But my question is the same. Are we just sort of unenlightened and behind the times here that people can find worthwile sort of services like

somebody who would pick up a kid?

SCHACHER: No, Dr. Drew, I agree with Vanessa and Niki. And you`re right, Niki, kudos to these people. We talk about all of these stories where

people don`t notice red flags. So thank god for this guy for noticing that.

But just to play devil`s advocate, what if this mom really is naive. I`m not saying that she may or may not be a terrible parent. But what if she

had some parenting classes?

PINSKY: All right, let me ask Judy. Could this be a local cultural thing? She`s from a part of Georgia where neighbors help one another out and they

don`t think about the potential of handing off to a so-called stranger?

HO: OK, Dr. Drew, cultural or not --

NOTO: Look, she`s in Marietta.

PINSKY: Marietta is a very neighborly place, right?

NOTO: Right. She`s like my neighbor. I would`ve given her kid a ride.

PINSKY: Judy, go ahead.

HO: Listen up, this cultural or not, this is obviously just another indication that parenting really isn`t as intuitive as some of us might

believe. Like, when you give birth to a child you`re just all of the sudden going to get the maternal instinct. Parenting education is

absolutely key for somebody like this. And she just really maybe doesn`t know better, but what she has done could have potentially ended up with a

dead child. She doesn`t even realize that. That`s the missing link that we need to address with parenting classes.

PINSKY: Well, I still think it could be something called the fundamental attribution error. It`s the environment she`s in rather than the

individual that`s gone astray here. But but but -- lots of our online commenters said how is this, Vanessa, any different than putting your child

on a plane as an unaccompanied minor? How`s this different?

BARNETT: It`s very different. I used to fly to Chicago every summer from the age of 7 to 11. I used to visit my aunt. When they put you on the

plane, they give you a designated flight attendant. Your mother comes to the gate with you. She sees that everyone`s OK. Like, there`s more into

it than just dropping me off at the airport and hoping I make my way to wherever I`m going. She put her son in a car with a complete stranger, one

person does not know where he`s going and what he`s doing. An airplane can`t just divert and take your child away. It`s completely different.

SCHACHER: And there are so many predators on Craigslist, so many predators.

BARNETT: She`s lucky.


SCHACHER: She got so lucky here.

HO: Absolutely.

BARNETT: Does she not remember the Craigslist killer? I want to start a petition for the guy who actually stood up and did the right thing. Maybe

he should have the baby.

PINSKY: He is a hero. Make no mistake about it. But let me say this. Have we come to the point that we`re so casual about parenting that we hand

the kid off to a babysitter who hands off to some stranger? This is insanity. I`ve been playing with this story right now. This is craziness,


We, both the mom and the father, or two parents, we need at least two people in that kid`s life, on them constantly. Maybe we`ve overdone that

in some situations, but they need to consistent availability and it`s us, eyes on, it`s us, that have got to be responsible for that kid all the time

until they`re -- well, sometimes past 18.

Next up, Dr. Oz gets under fire. I`ve got some physician to physician ideas and advice, and I`ve got some strong feelings. Be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Oz is pushing back against claims he`s peddling phony cures.

DR. MEHMET OZ, TV HOST: It`s green coffee beans, and when turned into a supplement, this miracle pill can burn fat fast for anyone who wants to

lose weight.

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: In January you called forskolin, quote, "lightning in a bottle."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he took a lot of heat for promoting untested so- called miracle weight loss products.

MCCASKILL: I don`t get why you need to say is this stuff because you know it`s not true. Why would you cheapen your show?

OZ: I do personally believe in the items I talk about on the show. I passionately study them. I recognize they oftentimes they don`t have the

scientific muster.

MCCASKILL: I`m concerned that you are melding medical advice, news and entertainment in a way that harms consumers.

OZ: I use language that was very passionate but it ended up not being helpful but incendiary.


PINSKY: Back with Sam, Loni, Vanessa and Erica. This is the story you`ve been tweeting about most today, Dr. Oz being grilled by members of Congress

this week. They`re accusing him of promoting untested weight loss products on his show.

Now, I know Dr. Oz. I`ve had him on this show; I`ve been on his show many times. I have some very strong feelings about this story. But first I

want to get my panel in here. Vanessa, what is your take?

BARNETT: I like Dr. Oz. I`ve watched his show many times, and I`m like the rest of the people watching. You trust him. He`s a doctor. Many

times I`ve even seen you get frustrated when people don`t want to listen to the health professionals.

And so now when he`s sitting here and he`s telling me miracle drug, don`t work out, don`t diet, you`ll lose all of this weight, you want to trust him

because that is his role. He`s a doctor. And I just feel royally let down. I feel lied to, and I feel that he needs to be held to a higher

standard. And he didn`t follow up on his responsibility as a doctor and as someone who has a talk show.

He has a talk show for a reason. He talks, we listen; we should trust him. I can`t now.

PINSKY: Vanessa, you depress me, because I don`t think he did any of those things that you`re perceiving now of him to have done. Erica.

AMERICA: Yes. OK. So, I`m kind of midway. So, doctor, lied, yes, he`s a likable guy, I feel that he really does want to help people and promote

healthy life styles, but he did admit to using flowery language.

PINSKY: Erica, where did that language come from? Where does that language came from?

AMERICA: He said that.

PINSKY: Do you think he just came out of the top of his head and came up with that flowery language?


AMERICA: No. He (inaudible) probably was advised.

PINSKY: Probably a bunch of producers put it on the teleprompter and he was reading the damn teleprompter, and told them that this is necessary in

order to do the show. I`m sure he got tired of fighting back. All right, I`ll read the teleprompter. Loni, do you agree with me?

COOMBS: Yes, absolutely, 100 percent. And look, you all said to look at the context. So, when you look at everything that he`s said, he`s never said

don`t exercise. So, he wants everything to...


PINSKY: No. He`s raising awareness about diet and the importance of (inaudible). Well, maybe he heads (ph) this way exercise. Lightning in a

bottle. He didn`t write that. Some producer wrote that, some script writer, somebody else. Vanessa, what do you say?

BARNETT: It`s the Dr. Oz Show. If he doesn`t want to say something, he doesn`t have to. Dr. Drew, no one can make you same something you don`t

want to say. This is Dr. Drew on Call. And so, I`m just saying...


PINSKY: Samantha, just before we went on the air I was told -- I was told to do a promotional read and I went that read is not accurate. Then I was

told, well this is the company that pays for the show, we`ve got to do this. I objected enough that we rewrote this thing. But you -- daytime is

worse and if you fight back it gets tiring and maybe he thought -- he probably did think this is OK to say this. It`s just lightning in a bottle.

Who cares? Lightning in a bottle. He`s not saying it does x, y and z and it will x, y, z outcome.

BARNETT: He called it a miracle drug.

SCHACHER: But, hold on, OK, because I had mixed feelings as well until gave in (ph) I watched that earlier package, where he -- oh, my God, it broke my

heart to see how defeated he was up there with the senate. Now, listen, he -- everyday, has to talk about all of these different weight loss cures and

he tries to explore all of them. And I think that`s where people are not being able to decipher -- of course not all of them are going to work.

Probably the majority of them don`t work. And at the end of the day us as consumers, we have to be responsible to do our own home work. But then, I

do understand that he is a doctor, not just your average host so that`s why people take his word more seriously.

PINSKY: And that`s exactly why he needs to be held to a higher standard. We don`t disagree with that at all. But, Loni, you hear what I`m saying, they

have a TV show they`ve got to do and they`ve got to use language that`s you know...


COOMBS: It is more eye catching and ear catching, but I`m not saying that he doesn`t do his own research. I don`t think that...

PINSKY: He does. He does.

COOMBS: Exactly. He`s exactly right.

PINSKY: And he also said, I`m not getting paid, I`m not saying use this. I`m saying this is a company I trust. And by the way, my family uses these

products, too, which is all true.

COOMBS: Yeah. Exactly, and he also says that he uses language to help to inspire, and kind of get people he`s their cheerleader and give them hope,

but he realizes now that other people are using that, taking that out of context and putting it in their own promotions.

PINSKY: Well, he sued them for that.

COOMBS: Exactly, that`s right.

PINSKY: But now they`re saying now, he`s responsible -- his accountable, Erica, that this stuff gets out the way it does because of the language he


AMERICA: Yes, and I like him. I definitely don`t think it was intentional but he has to take his position of power and authority as a doctor more

seriously moving forward. It`s not just using enthusiastic language. We`re saying a specific coffee bean is a miracle drug. That`s very specific and

people, they do what people on TV say. I mean, look at what happened to Oprah when she mentioned something about, you know, the meat industry.

People went crazy with this. So, yes, it is part of, you know, the carrier being in TV, but as a doctor you really have to be careful.

PINSKY: OK. Of course, Vanessa, maybe, you know, he`s not an internist. People may don`t understand what he is. He`s a cardiothoracic surgeon, top

notch professor of cardiothoracic surgery. He doesn`t deal with high blood pressure and weight change and diet, and all that kind of stuff. Maybe he`s

getting caught up in the enthusiasm about these products as well.

BARNETT: If that`s not your forte, then don`t preach it as if it is. I don`t think he did anything maliciously, like I watch the package, too. I

do feel for him because he does look like he feels like he`s being beat up on but at the end of the day he has to take responsibility for these

passionate words that he used. You can`t count a miracle drug and get mad when people want results.

I want to get our story going. I want to get our social media response to it. I`m very interested to what people have to say about this and also, get

on our Facebook, after the show we`re going to post more video, behind the scenes pictures and we`ve got something you`ll never believe, we have Judy

Ho singing. She`s a rock star. Who knew it? See it, believe it on Facebook, and give us a like there as well. Search for Dr. Drew HLN. Back in a




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the point in time you initially talked about this being a miracle, the only study that was out there was the one with 16

people in India that was written up by somebody who was being paid by the company that was producing it.

OZ: Well, paper agued that there`s no one paying for it, but I have the four papers -- package actually, plus, a series of basic science papers on

it as well.


PINSKY: Back with Sam, Judy, Nikki and Jennifer. We`re talking about Dr. Oz who`s got in some heat today for promoting untested, so called, miracle

weight loss supplements on his show. Facebook, Twitter, lighting up about the topic. Sam, before you tell us what folks are saying out there in

social media, let me just say this. Everybody, there`s no miracle weight loss product. It does not exist. So, let`s be responsible consumers first

off. It just is not going to happen. There are things -- there`s medication that you can take that are helpful. I wouldn`t advise you do that. Here`s

the miracle, everybody, hard work, balancing your diet, seeing a nutritionist, exercising. It`s hard. I get it. It`s hard. But there`s no

miracle. Sam, what are they saying on social media?

SCHACHER: Yeah. Big reaction, from you all. OK. So, from twitter, Edward Price tweets, thankfully the United States senate know and recognized a

snake oil salesman when they saw him. Miracle in a bottle my foot. Linda on Facebook, she writes, Dr. Oz clearly says on his show he isn`t endorsing

them or making money off of them. He`s simply telling you what`s out there, and why it would or wouldn`t work.

PINSKY: Niki, you`re shaking your head no.

NOTO: Look, you know, I think the first Twitter response was a little aggressive. I think that, you know, what we know about Dr. Oz is that, he

does, he has doctor in front of his name and he is a public figure. But more importantly, he`s a brand. I have personally experienced being in the

grocery store, overhearing, people say, oh, I saw this on Dr. Oz, he mentioned this. He doesn`t necessarily have to use that flowery language so

to speak. But even if he says something is delicious, I`m probably going to think twice, thinking, he might know something that I don`t, you know. If

he`s talking on a show, saying, oh, you know, these -- there`s a miracle donut, Dr. Drew, and it is delicious for -- you know, I know, that might be

Ludacris, but if Dr. Oz says it, I`m gonna think twice, and might look at the ingredients and go, maybe he knowing something I don`t. I don`t know.

PINSKY: Niki, I`m going to go to Jennifer, because you`re scaring the hell out of me. I`m afraid to give an opinion out of anything. Just because I

have doctor in front of my name, any opinion becomes the gospel.

KEITT: Dr. Drew, every single week on my talk show, I go through this, because I realize as a talk show host I realize I`m responsible for what I

say. But I talk to adult. Dr. Oz is talking to an adult audience. We do not check out our brains when we listen and tune on the television. I think

it`s a mutual responsibility.


KEITT: He is vetted. He believes what he is saying. I don`t think it`s malicious. But as viewers and listeners, we`re responsible too. We can`t

just say it`s all on him.


KEITT: And we have no culpability in this situation. That`s crazy.


HO: Well, here`s the thing, Dr. Drew, with great power comes great responsibility as Voltaire said, and Uncle Ben of Spiderman said. So, what

we have to think about is yes, that dr. in front of you name, that does make some things a little more difficult. Like when you`re actually just

saying I`m enthusiastic about a product people take that as a fact, instead of just your opinion. And so, what do we do here? I mean, yes, we want our

consumers to be more informed and check the facts out. But, you know what, that`s not the way human minds work. Most, human minds...


HO: No. I`m just saying that this is the way that we do things. In general, we like shortcuts. There is just so much stimuli coming at us. And when we

have a first impression of somebody, and that first impression is locked in, we`re just gonna go ahead with that first impression and not check it


KEITT: But I question my doctor, too. We cannot just...


PINSKY: Good for you. I think Niki -- I think Niki is a marketer`s dream. She`s like, yeah, Judy, fight -- I`ll shortcut everything, whatever come my

way if somebody says it`s good, it`s good.


NOTO: You know what though, Judy is correct. We don`t really pay attention to details like we should anymore, and if you`re in the other room, you


KEITT: So, that makes him responsible?

NOTO: No. I`m not saying it makes him responsible, I`m just saying, as an average person, you`re in the other room and you hear a product and it`s

coming from Dr. Oz`s mouth, it makes you think, hey, maybe I should...

PINSKY: I want to hear some more of the question. I want to hear how we responded to it. Let`s look at this.


OZ: (Inaudible). I used flowery language. I use language that was very passionate and I felt in my own mind that if I talked about specific

companies selling high quality products, it would seem like I was supporting those companies. And so, I never gave them -- the audience an

idea of where to go to buy the stuff. A doctor shouldn`t sell the products. I should just say, here are the companies I trust just go buy their

products because they`re not going to scam you. They`re not gonna make illegal claims.


PINSKY: It is a tough thing, Judy. He would have saying, here`s what my practice is, here`s what I`ve done, here`s how I understand these things.

On one end people want that as well. They want you...

HO: That`s right.

PINSKY: What can we as physicians, as psychologist, (inaudible) I what can we give an audience to help them to make their lives better. That`s why

we`re all doing television.

HO: Of course. And my proposal is to try to get into that shortcut idea and make it a little bit easier for the audience to become an informed

consumer. He could mention casually go to my website for a summary of studies about this product. Even if he did that, that would help a little

bit. We`re not gonna go and research everything online but maybe we`ll click on his website, and look at the summary of sites.

PINSKY: Guys, we`ve got to get out. New trend, celebrities are posting pictures of themselves getting intravenous vitamin treatments. And believe

me, I`m not going to tell you this is a miracle or good or anything else. I`m going to tell you what I think about it, and you can tell us what you

think on our Facebook page. It is Dr. Drew HLN, right back.


PINSKY: All right. I`m back with Sam, Vanessa and Erica, and joining us now, an actress, Alicia Minshew. Now, the IV mag phenomenon is going viral

thanks to celebrities like (inaudible) and his girlfriend. They`re getting treatment with so-called vitamin cocktails, intravenously fed into their

blood steam. There is a picture of that. Before, they are looking for a, quote, boost, after a night of partying. Sam, hangover helper, there you

go. Are you in?

SCHACHER: Yeah. I am in. If it works, Dr. Drew, I say genius in moderation for the occasional hangover Vegas weekend, birthday.

PINSKY: Hang on, everybody. I`m furious about this.


PINSKY: You put a foreign body into someone`s vein. There are complications that can occur. I`ve seen to a virus that go into the heart for God sakes.

I have seen horrible complications off IV. Erica, you`re nodding.

AMERICA: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Listen, it`s one thing if these people are needing intravenous fluids and some thiamine because they`ve had so much damn much alcohol that

they`re being depleted and that`s someone who should be hospitalized for their alcoholism right after they get the IV fluid.

AMERICA: I completely agree. Dr. Drew, look, Rihanna, stars like her, total trend setter. She just won a fashion icon award, but this is not a trend

that people -- normal people should be following. Anytime you get an IV directly into the bloodstream, there`s the possibility of infection, and

these popup shops or little stores in Miami, they said that are starting to provide the service, I mean, they need to be in tiptop ship like a


PINSKY: That`s right. That`s right.


AMERICA: These could be potentially dangerous and it`s like putting yourself under anaesthesia for just no reason.

PINSKY: Right.



PINSKY: And, Alicia, to be fair, Rihanna, apparently actually had the flu. She was actually in the hospital and need fluid replacement. I`m not saying

fluid replacement is inappropriate. I`m saying if you`re healthy, you`re only putting yourself in harm`s way to get -- by the way, the equivalent of

what you could take my bout. What do I say, it`s Rihanna -- who did I say? There`s Rihanna, right here. There`s her in the hospital. That`s an

(inaudible). That`s somebody who is sick. What do you say, Malicia -- Alicia?

MINSHEW: OK. Well first of all I think honestly whatever floats your boat. If this is what they want to do, then that`s fine. I think it`s a little

weird. And it kind of scares the crap out of me, because like you said, Dr. Drew, like you don`t know what`s -- I mean are there side effects to this?

What exactly is going in their body in that needle? It kind of scares me a little.

PINSKY: It`s basically some sodium -- by the way, you could screw with people`s fluid balance much like the very first story we did with the kid

who had brain damage from the -- with the sodium metabolism in the body gone wrong. But it`s probably just basically what you could buy at any, you

know, any pharmacy and put in your mouth. It`s the same damn thing. Vanessa.

BARNETT: Dr. Drew, don`t be Dr. Killjoy.

MINSHEW: Thank you.

SCHACHER: Sign me up.

PINSKY: You guys just took off after my colleague who had to testify in front of congress because he said, oh, this -- this harmless coffee might

help you. And now you`re saying whatever the doctor say, you want us to go tell the truth. I`m telling you the truth.

BARNETT: I`m going to take the green coffee bean too. You don`t know the night I had last night Dr. Drew. Sign me up, after tequila shots, vodka

shots and champagne, I need the help I can get.

PINSKY: Vanessa, Vanessa, remember who are you are talking to, remember who are you talking to, if you really need IV fluid replacement, with fine

(inaudible) magnesium and I would call the banana bag, if you need a banana bag, I`m taking you to a psychiatric hospital immediately after that

drinking the alcohol. This just so you know.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Samantha.

SCHACHER: OK. Just one quick question. If it was administered properly after a night drinking with your friends, would it work?



PINSKY: Yes. See, if it was really because you had so much alcohol that...

SCHACHER: Not so much.

PINSKY: So much alcohol that you had depleted your volume, your magnesium your -- and by the way, you could -- it`s pretty hard to do that in one

night. It`s hard but OK maybe if you`re vomiting. A little pancreatitis in there, perhaps.


AMERICA: But you said it`s potentially dangerous.

PINSKY: But it is worth it, maybe. And by the way, there are physicians that do, do these things, instead of rolling -- to treat -- there are these

sort of vans that go around and do it in Las Vegas. My fear is that they`re putting people back together to go practice their addiction. They don`t

give them a referral for treatment after for their alcoholism after they deplete their fluids. It drives me crazy. Thank you guys, I`ve got a life

saving selfie that I want to talk to you about after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stacey Yepes was at home watching TV when it happened.

STACEY YEPES, WOMAN DOCUMENTS STROKE WITH A SELFIE VIDEO: The whole left side of my body went very numb and tingly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it happened again in her car a few days later, the 48-year-old did something incredible.

YEPES: So, now I`m taking a picture for an example of what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Using her smartphone, she taped her own symptoms.

YEPES: It`s so tingling on the left side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her video was eventually shown to doctors at Toronto western hospital and Stacey`s self diagnosis was confirmed. She`d had a

mini stroke, three of them in fact.


Back with Sam, Vanessa, Ericka, Alicia. That 48-year-old woman says, she decided to record herself after physicians initially told her she was

displaying stress related symptoms. Take a look at this.


YEPES: It`s exactly at (inaudible) and the sensation is happening again. To smile they said, smile. It`s all tingly on the left side. On the left side.


PINSKY: You guys, I think this is fantastic. I think we have a new diagnostic instrument here. I think people need to think of recording -- I

know there`s gonna be a lot of good stuff for the cell phone service recording EKG`s and what not, but take pictures of skin rashes, take

picture of neurological symptoms. Have somebody else in you. That -- you should learn those symptoms. That is a stroke in evolution which is a

blockage in the tiny vessel to the brain that typically will supply, in this case it was probably way on the inside of the brain here. But they cut

off the supply to regions of the brain that are then manifest in the periphery. There can be bleeding in the brain or there can be blood clots

that cut off the blood supply or a vast base spasm. In this case it was coming full(ph) of transit of ischemic event, the ischemic meaning lack of

oxygen, lack of blood supply. Transient meaning it went resolved, came back and went away. And she was now better with blood thinners and anti

cholesterol medication and blood pressure control. It`s a great reason to bring up, again, control your blood pressure and get your blood pressure

under and get cholesterol under control, treat the diabetes. These are not trivial matters. And younger people are getting these things these days

because of our problems with weight. Alicia, what do you think about this?

MINSHEW: Well, first of all. I think she is a genius for doing this because she saved her life. She saved her life. And I have to say personally I have

a friend of mine who is 42 years old. He had a stroke about six months ago. He`s still in the hospital in a vegetative state.

PINSKY: Unless you bring it up...

MINSHEW: He knew he was having a stroke.

PINSKY: Yeah. You have a really important to apply. Because now we can intervene when a stroke is in process just like you can intervene on a

heart` tack and you can prevent exactly what happened to your poor friend. When a stroke is completed and the blood supplies finally completely cut of

and the brain tissue dies, it`s devastation if it`s a big region in the brain. Erica, you were enthusiastic when I was saying this was a new


AMERICA: I was just gonna say, you know, it`s amazing. It`s an example of neology(ph) and our -- videotaping ourselves in a positive. Of course,

there`s the double edged sword, there`s the negative side we often bring up on the show. But here she was able to bring to light her own symptoms and

therefore diagnose her. And I just think this has great potential for the future. I mean, just seeing this, it was great for, you know, information

about strokes. I learned something. But I can -- I`m interested in what you`ll say about this, Dr. Drew. I could even see mental illness using this

as a tool. Maybe the own person won`t have, you know, the insight the do it for a family member, can record delusions.

PINSKY: Or a manic episode. Vanessa.

BARNETT: I mean, I think we all agree this is probably the best selfie video we have ever seen. It`s just amazing that she has the foresight to do

this. But I just want to look at the other side of things. And it is a bit upsetting that she was turned away from the hospital and they didn`t see

those signs. What more can be done there? Are they missing key elements to stroke victims and what they`re going through?

PINSKY: It`s very difficult when somebody says, I`m having tingling around my mouth, and tingling in my hands. And they find nothing in the

neurological exam. Sam.

SCHACHER: Yeah, and that`s why you have to be your own advocate at the end of the day. So, I hope other people follow suit and go ahead, document your

symptoms, give them to doctors and you can eliminate the room for error, misdiagnosis and doubt.

PINSKY: And let me also say, her going back to the hospital is not something she should be ashamed of. And if you`re being shamed by the

medical staff, I`m telling you, even if it`s a panic attack, they`re not giving you proper treatment if you`re going back to the hospital

repeatedly. I say it all the time to patients, go back, get satisfactory, and be sure you`re satisfied with the treatment you got. Go back. They want

to see you there. They don`t want to make a mistake. And if you`re having something untoward, get back in there. I ask you to go to Facebook, please

do that. We`re gonna go to the after show after this. You can help dictate what the after show will be. And remind to the Forensic File follows us.

And it begins, right now.