Return to Transcripts main page


Secret Life of Father Revealed in Murder Trial

Aired July 3, 2014 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news: audible gasps today in the courtroom in an unbelievably shocking murder case. A church-

going father`s double life blown wide opened in court.

Today cops told a stunned courtroom that the dad left his toddler to die in a hot SUV while that dad sexted photos of his penis to a bevy of

women. And cops say that`s only the beginning of the twisted lies and bizarre behavior of Justin Ross Harris.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tragic accident or premeditated murder?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father says he forgot to take the boy to daycare.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: And you`re going to tell me after seven hours he didn`t smell that baby in the car?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up to six different conversations with different women.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged with murder and second-degree child cruelty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His exposed penis, thoroughly erect penis. He wanted to live a child-free life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was yelling. He was hollering. He was screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leaving Cooper in a hot car for several hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe the evidence has shown much more than that, or something more sinister.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: If the prosecutors are right this is a portrait of the pure evil.

Thirty-three-year-old web designer Justin Ross Harris is charged with murdering his own 22-month-old son Cooper Harris by leaving the precious

toddler trapped inside a sweltering SUV.

The boy`s father told cops he took Cooper to breakfast and then drove about five minutes to work and that during that short drive, forgot he had

the boy tightly strapped into his rear-facing child car seat. The dad then went into his office for hours.

But just hours ago, stunning secrets emerged of his double life. Nobody, not even Harris`s own brother knew anything about it. In some of

the most sick and twisted testimony, frankly, I`ve ever heard in all my years covering court cases, cops say Harris was sexting with as many as six

different women while his precious, innocent toddler was dying a horrible death inside his boiling hot car. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was having up to six different conversations with different women, it appeared, from the message from Kik mostly, which

is a messaging service.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of what nature were they?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most common term would be sexting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were photos being sent back and forth between these women and the defendant during this day, while the child`s out in the


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There were photos of his exposed penis, erect penis being sent. There were also photos of women`s breasts being

sent back to him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the shockers don`t stop there. Cops say Harris acted very bizarrely on the day his son died, like not showing an ounce of

emotion during questioning. And some truly jaw-dropping comments that had police convinced little Cooper`s death was a cold-blooded, premeditated

murder on his dad`s part.

What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. And also, join me on Facebook. 1-877-586-7297.

Our Lion`s Den expert panel is fired up and ready to debate. But first out to HLN senior producer Natisha Lance. You were sitting inside

the courtroom today, this packed courtroom, during this unbelievable testimony.

In our newsroom, while we`re watching and transcribing, there was, like, "oh!" gasps. Tell us about the courtroom`s reaction when Harris`s

alleged sexting while his son is dying was revealed?

NATISHA LANCE, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Well, Jane, first of all, the courtroom was full. There were people standing in the back of the

courtroom, all around the back, lined up against the wall. But when that information came out about the sexting, there was an audible gasp in the

courtroom. And I happened to be sitting in front of Justin Ross Harris`s mother and his father and Leanna Harris, also in that same row behind me.

And there was a gasp from his mother. It was very obvious that she had not heard this information before.

Leanna, on the other hand, she had very few reactions during the entire hearing, but she was looking down -- she went between looking down

or looking forward in just a blank stare gaze. Not looking necessarily at anything but just a blank stare.

And Justin Harris, on the other hand, was sitting there also with a blank look on his face, no reaction to the sexting, but it was pretty

obviously, Jane, you could feel the weight in the room just change and the energy change.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, correct me if I`m wrong. Is the wife of this defendant, the mother of this dead child? And we can show her again. Was

she chewing gum during all of this?

LANCE: She was chewing gum, Jane, during all of this. And that may have been to combat with some stress that she was going through. But on

both sides of her, it appeared one woman next to her was her mother; another one was a friend. She was holding hands with both of them at

different points throughout the whole hearing.

And again, as I said, she was looking down, and she was looking up. The only time where she appeared to get emotional is when the character

witnesses came forward to talk about the way that Justin Harris loved his son so much and that he was a great father. And then you saw her wipe her

eyes just a little bit.

But other than that, very little emotion. The people sitting around her, though, a lot of emotion from them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re getting a lot of the Facebook coming in. Sheila, "He didn`t cry until it was all about him." And another one

saying, "Justice for Cooper." And I certainly agree with that.

Got to go to my expert panel on this. But let`s listen to this sound first. According to cops, Harrison -- Harris wasn`t just sexting with

women but with underage girls, as well. Just moments ago, we learned that Harris was exchanging naked photos -- he`s a 33-year-old web designer,

married and a father. He`s exchanging them, allegedly, with a 17-year-old girl on the day his son, Cooper, died. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 16-year-old girl with these chats, the -- or now 17. They started when she was 16.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did these -- were they sexually involved, as well?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she send him a picture that day?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sent a picture of her exposed breast.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he send any pictures to her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did. He sent a picture of his exposed erect penis.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now to the Lion`s Den. Simone Bienne, behavior expert, cops say Justin Harris had been carrying on this sexual

relationship with a girl. She was 16 when they first began the affair. Now she is 17. He`s at work allegedly sexting 6 different women,

including, as you just heard, photos of his private parts in a state of arousal. I mean, essentially, are we talking about a man, a pervert who

murdered his own son, allegedly, to have a childless life where he could indulge his sexual perversion?

SIMONE BIENNE, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: I don`t know whether it`s that. It think it`s to do with power. I think he potentially was grooming these

women, in my opinion. I don`t know whether he was planning to groom the women, saying he could suck them in so then he could kill them.

And what is interesting: everyone is baffled by the fact that why did he straight away go and sext someone after allegedly killing his baby,

boiling his baby alive? Well, if you talk to psychopaths in jail, they will tell you they get a high from killing. If he didn`t get the high he

was expected, because he was thinking, "Am I going to get caught?" there he goes, sexts, and tries to get the high he`s after. He`s a very sick,

depraved psychopathic man, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Phillip Holloway, former police officer, criminal defense attorney, you were at the courthouse. I think that we have to tell

our viewers the level of shock that all of us were in.

We knew the other shoe was going to drop. We knew we were going to hear more than that he had just researched how long it takes a child to die

in a hot car, which is weird enough in itself. But boy. This wasn`t a shoe that dropped. This was like a building that slammed down. I

honestly, having covered Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, various Michael Jackson trials and all sorts of other criminal cases, I don`t know that

I`ve ever heard such a litany. And we`re going to tell our viewers all the other things of just horrors and incriminating evidence, one after the


PHILLIP HOLLOWAY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know Jane, that`s exactly right. I`ve been practicing law in this county for 14 years. My

office is two blocks from here. Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that I heard testimony like this in one of my own courtrooms in my

county here. This is unbelievable. I`ve got notes that I took all day when I was listening to the hours and hours of this shocking testimony.

One bombshell after another, Jane. I can`t believe it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It really is a bombshell. And I`ve got tell you, we`re going to give you another one right now and throughout the hour.

It`s going to take us all hour, at least, to get through all of the shockers.

Prosecutors think -- here`s another shocker -- that this guy spent a lot of time in one strange corner of the Internet. And that also reveals

what they feel is his motives to, what they said, was intentionally murder his son. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He planned to show that he wanted to live a child- free life or there`s evidence to suggest that, based on his Internet searches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went to a subreddit that was called "Child Free." And "Child Free" is a -- people who advocate living child-free.

They advocate not having any more children and adding to the bio mass, I guess, is the best way they put it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when he went to this subreddit, did he actually view and read articles, or did he access articles in that topic?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did. Over four of them -- or four.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy, you know, I`m childless. I made an intentional decision not to have children. So I

don`t think that there`s anything inherently perverted about that. But when you`re a parent and you are surfing the web for "child-free

lifestyle," and then your kid ends up roasting to death in a hot car, I think that is just damning.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, the timing matters. And I`m not going to go as far as the others have gone on the commentary until I

know the timing.

If he looked that up before this child was born, because reportedly they did have trouble becoming pregnant, then he was perhaps thinking about

how to adjust to that kind of lifestyle with his wife.

If he did the searches in a time period close to when this poor child died...


MURPHY: ... for example, that day, that`s different. There is no evidence about when he did it.

Look, here`s the thing that this guys` creepy. I don`t find it particularly shocking that he was sending his erect penis to a teenage

girl. Guys do that in this country all the time. They`re sick; they`re deranged. But it happens all the time, and it`s not shocking.

Here`s what`s shocking: the concept of imagining this man in the throes of sexual pleasure, the most intense kind of human pleasure we can

have as a species, juxtapose that feeling with the roasting and melting of his child`s life in a hot sweltering car.


MURPHY: That man is sick.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, go ahead, Brian.

CLAYPOOL: Yes, Jane, before this probable cause hearing, I`m a single father of a little girl. I went into this hearing this morning thinking

this guy is going to hang. He`s guilty of felony murder.

But when I saw what he looked like in that court. He looks like a character out of -- out of "Animal House." He looks like he`s 15 years

old. And I`m beginning to question...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s 33. I don`t care what he looks like.

CLAYPOOL: Jane, OK, but I don`t care what age he is. Age doesn`t correlate with maturity. I don`t think this guy is mature enough, and I

don`t think he`s got the emotional capability to plot out and plan outa calculated murder of his son. Why -- Jane, let me...

MURPHY: What? That is ridiculous.

CLAYPOOL: Let me explain. No, no, no, no. Let me finish. Why would we go down his car at 12:42 just to throw in some light bulbs into his car?

Why, when we went down to his car at 4 p.m...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe to check to see if the child was dead yet.

CLAYPOOL: No. He would not do that, because it makes it look worse.

MURPHY: That was on his way back from lunch. He threw the light bulbs in on his way back from lunch. He didn`t go down to his car. He

went to lunch with his buddies. They stopped at Home Depot. On the way back to his office, he stopped at his car to throw the bag in.

CLAYPOOL: He didn`t look in the car.

MURPHY: I`m just saying.

CLAYPOOL: He didn`t look in the car.

MURPHY: I`m not persuaded the kid was in the car yet. I think he was doing more nefarious things with his kid elsewhere. That`s what I think.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I disagree. And the prosecution believes the child was in the car all day long.

Let`s bring in Sierra Elizabeth, attorney.

MURPHY: No proof of that.


SIERRA ELIZABETH, ATTORNEY: Let me -- Jane, let me tell you why the prosecution`s case is weak here. OK?

If the Internet searches were so strong, they would have charged him with first-degree murder, because first-degree murder requires an intent to

murder. They didn`t charge him with murder. They charged him with felony murder and second-degree child cruelty. The reason why they did that is

because some states in this country unfortunately have this quirk on the books where you can charge someone with felony murder when they`re

committing a felony and someone dies. That`s all they have to prove.


ELIZABETH: No, Jane they`re going to show that he`s reckless, but that doesn`t mean that he committed murder, and that doesn`t mean that he

intended to murder his child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We only started with the evidence...


ELIZABETH: ... because their case is weak.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do not think this is a weak case. Oh my God. Phillip Holloway, you were there in Atlanta. This is a weak case?

HOLLOWAY: No, it`s not a weak case. And I`ll tell you, I just went back and looked at the notes that I was taking in real time. And according

to my notes, he was looking at this video. He did it twice, according to the testimony, about how horrific and painful it is for a person or an

animal to die in a hot car. And he did it as recently as June 13th, Jane. The child died on June 18th.


HOLLOWAY: That cannot be a coincidence. Five days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way we`re going to have live on our show tonight the veterinarian who did that video and who got in a hot car and

was basically feeling all the pain and all the suffering of being trapped in a hot car.

This guy, cops say, looked at that video, studied it, five days before his son dies in a hot car. So he knows how torturous it is to die in a hot


And we`re just getting started. Stay right there. Pat, North Carolina. We`re going to get to you right on the other side. We`ve got so

much Facebook just exploding. We`ll be back with more of the prosecution`s case. Stunners in just a second.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s talk about and move up to about two weeks before the child`s death. With one of the people he`s having a

conversation with, did he talk about exposing himself while he`s chatting and messaging this girl.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was he sending pictures?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he admit to her that he was not alone while he was doing it?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 22-month-old died from extreme heat exposure after being left in the back seat of his father`s car for hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the investigative information suggests the manner of death is homicide.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This case, honestly, I`ve covered so many cases over so many years. I don`t think there was ever a day -- perhaps some the most

shocking Jodi Arias testimony or the opening statements of Casey Anthony -- that -- that really had me almost speechless and just disgusted.

And of course, people on Facebook are saying very similar things. For example, Heidi: "I am beyond words with my outrage by this father. And

willingly left his son to die, and it pissed me off that the mother sat there chewing gum in court."

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Pat, North Carolina, thanks for your patience. Pat, North Carolina.

CALLER: Hello.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, there. What do you have to say, Pat?

CALLER: Well, I was just wondering, y`all said he went to the car after lunch and put something in it. I believe he was checking to see if

that baby was dead. Because if he had been dead, he would have run back into work screaming and hollering, "My youngin [SIC] is dead, my youngin

[SIC] is dead," but he didn`t, because that child hadn`t passed away yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Natisha, to Pat`s point, tell us about what the prosecution said about how he was walking back after lunch, and he did

something suspicious there.

LANCE: Right. So he comes back from lunch at 12:30, Jane. He had his friends drop him off in front of his vehicle. He goes into the

vehicle, they said, about 12:42 to throw in those light bulbs.

And as he`s walking back into the building, he feels another person who`s walking up behind him. He pauses, kind of looks back behind him to

see what this other guy is doing. And then when he sees what police are saying, that he`s nowhere near his car, then he gets on the phone and goes

into the building.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this is just -- just one example of what I thought was just a litany of very suspicious behavior.

For example, cops say that he lied about phone calls. That he said, "Well, I couldn`t really reach anybody on the phone" after he discovers his

son, purportedly discovers his son at a very convenient spot where there`s a lot of people around. And of course, cops determine that indeed he had

made a successful phone call that lasted 6 minutes. So that`s a lie. He never called 911.

He told the cop "`F` you." He told another one, "Shut up." He seemed, according to police, only concerned with himself. And he also,

when he was being basically observed by authorities after they had taken him in, he kept talking about himself: "I can`t believe this is happening

to me."

He lied to his wife, told the wife the boy looked peaceful with his eyes closed when he saw the body. But cops say the child`s eyes were wide

open, and the corpse was anything but peaceful, that the little boy`s tongue was hanging out, and he was going into rigor mortis and his eyes

were wide open.

We`re delighted to have Dr. Drew with us right now. I am almost beyond words at the alleged behavior of this man.

And Dr. Drew, talk to us about the sexual aspect, the fact that he`s allegedly sexting six women and sending his erect private parts, his erect

penis to some of them while this his son is dying, according to cops.

DREW PINSKY, HLN ANCHOR (via phone): Jane, so much of this is absolutely jaw-dropping. But there`s two questions for me: is this just a

guy who is so pathologically depraved?

But you would wonder, wouldn`t there be a long history of progressive depravity in someone like that? Versus, is this a sex addict who has

gotten so far into his addiction, like any other addict, that he`s lying, obfuscating, disorganized and has profound consequences.

If we were to say, oh, he was drinking and he ran over his son, oh, we understand what that is. But the fact is severe sex addiction can be as

mind-altering as drug addiction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you make an excellent point, and I agree with you, there`s definitely an addictive component here. And I agree sex

addiction can be just like drug or alcohol addiction. And I speak as a person in recovery.

And then add to that, Dr. Drew, his wife told cops they were having intimacy problems. OK? They were also apparently having some financial

problems. He was recently passed other for a promotion, and he also applied for a job at another place and he didn`t get it.

So he`s a man whose life is not going well.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he and his wife have marriage problems. They have sexual problems. And he`s -- he`s finding power with these other

women. But does that trump -- and there`s his wife in court right now. Does that trump the love for a child?

PINSKY: Well, we all shake our head. I can`t understand it. And none of this makes sense. I`m wondering if we`re going to learn more about

this. The answer, I guess, is no it doesn`t in normal circumstances, unless somebody is so profoundly depraved and narcissistic that they just

can`t experience anybody else`s agency or love for another person, or if he is so far down the line in some kind of a psychiatric.

Even, I mean, as I sit and stare here with my jaw open and try to understand this case, I`m even contemplating neurological disorders that

might help us explain why he is so inattentive, why he`s so blunt and what might be going on here.

But again, so unraveled in sex addiction that he`s losing life, losing finances, losing relationships and now killing someone. It does happen.

It might be the story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you buy it, Simone Bienne, behavior expert?

BIENNE: I love Dr. Drew. He`s a very good friend of mine. I don`t actually agree with him on this point, and I tell you why. Because sex

addicts that I dealt with are lovely charismatic people. And who have a problem. They know that they have done wrong. They feel bad. They want

to hit their bottom.

Here is a guy who cannot emphasize whatsoever. In court they were asked is he a good father. They say, "Yes, yes, he`s a good father. He

used to show his son around." This is a guy that sees his son as an extension of himself.

And I tell you what I think is so sick, Jane. I actually believe he`s so narcissistic -- there I agree with Dr. Drew -- that he basically doesn`t

want the attention away from him. This poor little baby, toddlers are hard work. It`s too much attention. If he isn`t getting attention, then it`s

like he is being mistreated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, and I also feel like what we are seeing are toxic secrets, Dr. Drew, that nobody, even in his inner circle, knew

anything about.

CNN went door to door trying to find somebody when the funeral was occurring, where he called in and got a standing ovation. And in his

friends and coworkers, everybody thought he was a great guy. So he really created a smoke screen of perfection, emphasizing the church going. And

you know, that is the -- that`s that reaction formation, where you put forth the exact opposite you are to create that perfect smoke screen.

PINSKY: Yes. Listen, remember poor Travis Alexander had a very secret life he was leading, and he became the victim in his unraveling. In

this case somebody else did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Drew, I don`t mean to interrupt you, but I think I may have lost you.

Chris on Facebook: "As someone who believed they knew Ross Harris." This is from our Facebook, somebody who knows this defendant, writing in.

Chris: "As someone who believed they knew Ross Harris, I just want to throw up my apologies for ever defending him. I knew a ghost, or someone who

never existed."

Oh, my gosh. The betrayal. Thank you, Dr. Drew. The betrayal that the people who stood by him initially must feel.

He called the funeral, his son`s funeral, from behind bars and got a standing ovation. And now those people are undoubtedly feeling so


And again we`re just getting started. We`re going to talk about his wife and her odd behavior on the day their son died on the other side. And

it is bizarre.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the desperate cries of a father who had just lost her son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you`re characterizing things. Just tell us specifically what words you heard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was saying, "Oh, my God, oh, my God, my son is dead. Oh, my God, my son is dead."




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged with murder and second-degree child cruelty for leaving Cooper in a hot car for several hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Researching child car deaths on the Internet. Is it a tragic coincidence or something much worse?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say Justice Ross Harris, the 33-year-old web designer, was sexting up to six women and sending pictures of his private

parts to some of them while his toddler son was dying a horrible death in his SUV outside his office.

On the stand today, the detective gave what could be some of the most damning evidence. And it came about when Justin Harris, the defendant, was

talking with his wife, Leanna, shortly after their son died.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She asked him -- she had him sit down, and he starts going through this. And she looks at him. She`s like, "Well, did

you say too much?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant say anything to you that brought concern?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And once again as we`re watching their reunion, after he`s talking about how Cooper looked peaceful and his eyes were

closed and it just, you know, looked like he`s sleeping. He goes, I dreaded how he would look.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dreaded, past tense.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Philip Holloway former police officer, criminal defense attorney at the courthouse, why on earth would the wife ask her

husband did you say too much? And why would he say to her I dreaded how he would look at him.

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, if you pay close attention to the testimony as I know you did and we did out here, one of

the first big bomb shells I put in my notes that came out and stuck out to me, the first thing she said when she found out that Cooper was not at day

care according to the testimony was, he must have left him in the car. Now, I would have wanted to know what do you mean. Why is he not here? Instead

she says, why is he not in the car? And then of course the police do what they like to do and it`s a very common police investigative technique. They

put them together in a room. And say, well, we`ll let you guys just be alone for a few minutes. Of course, and then the camera is rolling and the

microphones are turned on and they want to see what they`re gonna say to each other. What do they say according to the testimony? She ask him did

you say too much? And he said to her, he dreaded how Cooper would look. You know, I`d like to know what else is in that tape of that conversation

between these two. But on that alone it tells me that she may very well be facing criminal charges. I`m surprised if she`s not arrested before the end

of the night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we have to say that she`s not charged with anything. And authorities have said she`s part of the investigation but not

under investigation. But to your point, let`s set the stage here and play what you were talking about. Justin Harris typically dropped off his son

Cooper at daycare and his wife Leanna picked him up. The day little Cooper died, cops say Leanna arrived at the daycare at 4:51 P.M. and here is

exactly what happened. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once she walked into the daycare, she walked back to Cooper`s classroom where she ran into Michelle and she asked, you know,

what are doing here? And Leanna`s like, well, I`m here to pick up Cooper. And like Ross never dropped Cooper off. And she`s like just got really

calm, she`s like well I don`t know what to do. And they walked back out into the lobby. And in front of several witnesses, all of the sudden she`s

states Ross must have left him in the car, and they are like, what? There is no other reason, Ross must have -- there`s no other explanation, excuse

me. Ross must have left him in the car and they try to console her. And they`re like no, you know, there is a thousand reasons. He could have taken

him to lunch or something. We don`t know yet, and she`s like no.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, does it strike you as odd that this wife, the mother of the child immediately -- immediately

decides, oh my husband must have left the baby in the car.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Look, Jane, it`s way past weird. These two are clearly in cahoots. That`s why they`re saying did you say too

much. And she said oh I was searching for how to kill a kid in a car and he was searching for how to kill a kid in a car and I just came up with idea

of, oh Ross must have just left the kid in the car all day. It`s so stupid. I mean, if you are going to plan to kill your kid. Get your act together.

Theses statements alone will sink both of them but it shows me she is in cahoots with this guys. She knew what was going on.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say something in her defense. Brian Claypool, she spoke to her husband about 45 minutes before that -- less than 45

minutes. And the husband, I would say, probably didn`t say anything about the son, of course he couldn`t because he hadn`t been declared dead yet.

So, she speaks to him about 4:00 in the afternoon. And as soon as she goes to daycare, and she realizes, oh, I just spoke to my husband. He didn`t say

anything but the kid`s not here. Oh he must have left him in the car.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, here`s another argument. Hear me out. And by the way, we got get out of the parental

courtroom and get into what -- into a legal courtroom, OK? Now, if she said that, then maybe there were other instances where this ding bat Ross maybe

left Cooper in the car. He strikes me as being very immature, very emotionally bankrupt and very capable because he`s obsessed with women and

sexting that maybe he did in fact do this before and he did it again here and that is why she reacted had way she did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And here`s what Victor of Facebook says, no wonder he forgot his son. He couldn`t get to that computer fast enough to sext those

women. When we come back more of this extraordinary report, we`re just -- we`re not halfway through all the evidence the prosecution presented. Stay

right there. And we`re taking your calls.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the fact while that baby was out there cooking in that car, he was showing pictures of his private parts to other

people. He was totally talking to everybody else in the world about everything else other than his child, gets an e-mail in the middle of the

day about his day care. Goes out to the car and tosses light bulbs in there. He tosses light bulbs. I think it`s remarkable and speaks volumes

that he didn`t stick his head in the car. He knew what he was going to find.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What type of policy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had two policies on Cooper. The first policy was the $2,000 policy through the home depot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The second was this something they got back in 2013.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. November 2012 is when he signed up for it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was this something they still had at the time when the job is done?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how much was the policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a $25,000 policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were they having any type of financial difficulty?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was complaining about his purchasing, he`s afraid of purchasing or overcharging credit cards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, who was in control of the finances at the time?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, they had two life insurance policies worth $27,000 on their son and you just heard they were having some money problems

although the defense denies it. And look, he was unhappy of work, he was recently passed over for promotion, he failed to get another job that he

was looking for. But I want to go to Sierra Elizabeth, you are a defense attorney. Defend this. On the day his son was roasting in the car, they he

says he forgot his child there, he according to the prosecutors got an e- mail -- a mass e-mail at 1:30 in the afternoon from the daycare center. Wouldn`t that spark your memory? Oh my son is supposed to be at daycare?

SIERRA ELIZABETH, ATTORNEY: Jane, for the whole hour we`ve been talking about how this guy is distracted by women, by his finances, by all

of these things. How does his recklessness turn into murder? That is what I don`t understand. Yeah this guy had a lot going on that prevented him from

being a good father in this instance. But does that mean he had intent to kill his child on that day? No it doesn`t. And that`s what you have to


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, when you are researching how long it takes a child to die in a hot car, OK, I`d say that alone. But then when you were

going to child-free websites where there is a whole lifestyle about don`t have children and he has a child. And then we haven`t even gotten into his

obsession with death and looking at videos of people dying. The prosecutor said he was obsessed with going to videos that featured suicides, the Iraq

war, various things where people are dying. I mean, my gosh. Former Prosecutor Wendy Murphy, it keeps piling up. It is not one thing. It is the

sum total.

MURPHY: Yeah. You know that`s circumstantial evidence. Look, we also have a very powerfully forensic case. We have physical evidence. We have

videotapes. We`ve got the kind of stuff that no matter what you think of the guy and who is -- you know, what he searches for online you really have

a solid case here. One other interesting observation I want to make. His lawyer is not a traditional homicide defense attorney. He doesn`t defend

murder cases if you look at his website. He does sexual exploitations and sex crime and child porn cases, very interesting who he chose as a lawyer,

he does not see this as a first degree murder case. I think it is a cover up killing for another kind of crime.

ELIZABETH: Let me give you an example Jane. If you search my computer today you would see searches about hot cars and kid. That doesn`t mean that

you murdered your child on purpose.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah. But you didn`t leave your kid if you have one in a hot car. And your kid didn`t die today if you have one. So, that`s the

difference. Go ahead, Brian.

CLAYPOOL: Yeah. Jane, first of all, there is no evidence that he even read the e-mail. And secondarily, there is little evidence if any of this

probable cause here that he did an actual Google search that he went on and typed in these topics. He was on, what`s called Reddit, where he just

clicked something on Reddit. There`s a big difference with that. And I agree it`s going to be real hard to prove criminal intent and malice afore

thought to prove of a phony murder charge here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Anna on Facebook, that leaves this is all circumstantial evidence and will likely be up to a jury. But remember Casey

Anthony, even though all signs pointed to her it was still not enough. So, we`ll see is all this stuff admissible at trial? Stay right there. We`ve

got more allege evidence next. And the best.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw Mr. Ross, I saw his son laying there lifeless. And others were assisting him or assisting trying to give CPR.

And that he was reacting, I`d say, normally to a situation of this magnitude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did it appear to you that it was genuine distress and grief on his part?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was definitely genuine and very passionate and organic. I felt his pain. I even wept and mourned his son. And I`ve never

met him.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were several marks on the child`s face. It would have come from the child or a scratch being made while the child was

alive and then not healing. Not scabbing over or anything like that, and just soon after he passed away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were there any injuries to the back of the child`s head?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There were abrasions to the back of the child`s head.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You see he`s not crying there. It took at least an hour and a half possibly two hours before this guy shed a tear at his

probable cause hearing. And observers said when it was all about him. I want to go to the very patient Michael Alabama, what do you have to say?

Michael Alabama.

MICHAEL ALABAMA: Thank you, Jane. I just wanted to comment on this hot car dead guy. The list of searches that he made the child, the child-free,

hot car death, to me it really proves his guilt. The defense attorney is not being really realistic in these types of things. I`m a father and my

daughter is (inaudible), the way that she was at that age, I was doing some things that I`m not proud of. I was vey promiscuous at time and probably

had five or six women I was talking to as well. But you would never, never forget your child, and based on the fact that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah. First of all I want to thank you, Michael, for having the courage to make that admission, because it is a tough admission

to the make. And you didn`t forget your child. But I want to go to right now a very special exclusive guest. We`re talking to Chris, Chris had

called us -- contacted us on Facebook saying that you believe you knew Ross Harris. What was your reaction as somebody who knows this man -- this

defendant? When you found out that while his child was roasting to death in a hot car he was -- according to cops sexting six different women and

sending photos of his erect member, and I`m sorry to be so (inaudible) but that`s what it was to these -- some of these women.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You said you were stunned?

WILKERSON: Stunned. I mean this just totally. The whole story is just totally not what we knew of Ross Harris. (Inaudible) of us who knew him,

(inaudible) were angry with people that commented because I was like you don`t know this guy. And I know this is horrible and I can`t explain how it

happened. Don`t have any explanation for how it happened. But I can tell you if it happened to this guy it could happen to anybody. And now, I just

don`t even know what to say. I mean.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you know they had an unhappy marriage and that they were having intimacy problems? And that is according to the wife they

were having intimacy problems.

WILKERSON: Well, you know, I never met her to be fair. So, I won`t comment on she said or hasn`t said, but I knew Ross. I met Cooper one time.

He brought him back to visit (inaudible). You know, I`d still be shocked to hear that because by all indications everything -- I mean this is a good


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, well nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. And I`ll tell you from my own personal experience, Chris, sometimes

when people act perfect that is when the most toxic secrets are hidden behind that perfect exterior. What do you make of his.

WILKERSON: They weren`t like that. They, you know, like every other couple I`m sure they had their issues. But, you know, you thought that they

were loving parents. Cooper was the light of their eye. They fought to have him. And for this to happen, it was just so unfathomable, and then to hear

all this on top of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Would you say that his friends who gave him a standing ovation at his funeral feel betrayed at the son`s funeral when he called in

from jail and he got a standing ovation now that all this has come out about is sexting allegedly and all sorts of other stuff? Do you think they

feel betrayed for standing up for this guy?

WILKERSON: Again, I wouldn`t presume to speak for anybody else. I don`t know. I wasn`t there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you feel betrayed?

WILKERSON: Yes. But, you know, save your out rage for the betrayal for that little boy who was betrayed by people who should have protected him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chris, well, I want to thank you for taking the time to call us. And I know it`s emotional and difficult. You know, sometimes we

wonder, do we know anyone? Do we ever really know anyone? You think you have a friend, you know him and then they do something that you can`t

comprehend. Stay right there. We have more of what the prosecution calls evidence of intentional killing on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Attorney Phil Holloway, what`s next?

HOLLOWAY: Well, Jane, you know the judge said at the end of this case when he said he was not going to been inclined to grant bail this could

very well turn into a death penalty case. And I agree with him. The prosecution laid out a case today for malice murder. They did not ask for

the charge to be upgraded and this time. Well, that`s what they`ve got the grand jury for, they can do it when they`re ready, when the case is

complete. They`ll send it to the grand jury. And they may very well seek a malice murder indictment. If that`s the case, what we heard today certainly

would qualify for the death penalty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, to me, the most incriminating and I`ll save it for last is that authorities said when they examined the car there was a

tremendous stench. He got into that car at 4:16 and drove a couple of miles with his child who authorities say was already dead before pulling over.

So, why wouldn`t he have realized that that stench was intense at the moment he opened the car door at the end of the day? That I find very,

very, very incriminating. But let`s let him have his day in court. Nancy`s got a whole lot more on this very case. Stay right there.