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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Latest on Israel Ground Offensive; President Obama Speaks on Flight MH-17

Aired July 18, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHELE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Also, what will the U.S. do is a big question. We've mentioned the NTSB, the FBI, U.S. intelligence as possibilities, and the President pledged to Ukraine, U.S. experts that would give all possible assistance immediately. We know that Ukraine accepted it and in fact, this morning Ukraine was saying that they hoped to see the NTSB there soon, because of their expertise in these matters. So maybe a timeline of what exactly the U.S. could do.

But as we've been saying since this area of the crash site is now seeming to be fully in control of the separatists, even though it's within Ukraine's territory, it's unclear whether they would allow these international observers that are already there or U.S. investigators for that matter on to that site. I mean, the real worry has been how much has that scene already been moved? Have the block boxes been taken away? That's something that's being discussed all day long and also the big question is what this going to do for the relationship between the U.S. and Russia?

If there is to be one at all, and they do cooperate on some important issues, we've mentioned Syria and Iran, for example, and as this has been going on, I mean the U.S. and Russia have sort of compartmentalized those issues of cooperation, kept going on those as much as possible, even while the U.S. and Europe continue to sanction Russia, so I guess the question to put it in common terms is what do you do now? What could put pressure on Russia since even if this was as the U.S. Believes the work of separatists, for months the U.S. has believed that those separatists are under significant control of Russia, so either way it looks like the onus and the responsibility is at least in large part on the Russian government -- Jake?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to Jim Sciutto for one second.

Jim, you heard Michelle mentioned and our own Elise at the State Department reported earlier that right now and obviously we know a lot of early information is not always accurate that U.S. Government does the not know of anybody traveling on that plane, Malaysia airlines flight 17 who was using a U.S. passport. That does not preclude the possibility of dual citizenship and somebody using a different passport but also being an American citizen, but how much does it change the equation in terms of American-Russian geopolitics if there actually were not any Americans on board or does it not change the equation at all?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think it would change it -- to have Americans on board would mean that these separatists killed Americans with Russian support and that would be a game changer, but even without it, this is significant. The day before this happened, the president marched to the briefing room in the White House, announced new sanctions against Russia because he said Russia continues to support pro Russian separatists, continues to arm them in eastern Ukraine. The next day, those separatists take a missile and shoot down a civilian airport over Europe with 300 people on board, many Europeans, Asians, but the very next day this happens, and on you have today as well on the floor the U.S. ambassador of the U.N., Samantha Powers, saying this missile system that shot down this plane, this system would almost require Russian expertise to help shoot it down. That is Russian involvement in a major civilian air disaster over Europe, so still significant, requiring an American response even if there aren't Americans on board, and America, the U.S. has been taking the lead in the response, despite a lot of European reluctance to go for more costly sanctions. That is the real challenge for President Obama now. He has to act. The question is how? Will he have European support? I thought it interesting that the German chancellor blamed Russia for this attack. She says Russia has responsibility. Germany has been reluctant to take more significant steps against Russia because of deep, deep economic and business ties between Russia and Germany. There were nine Germans I believe, if I have my numbers right on this plane, nine Germans killed, so says the German chancellor with Russian support. What does Germany do? Do they now join the U.S.? This is a major question, it's hard to see how the U.S. and the West not react definitely actively to this crash.

TAPPER: Even if no Americans were on board, we still do not know that for certain, a lot of individual citizens from allies of the United States, Samantha Powers, the united nations ambassador saying today that the loss of life in the Netherlands in terms of the proportion of population is basically comparable to the loss of life that this country experienced on 9/11. There is, of course, another major crisis going on in the world, actually several other major crises going on in the world.

Let's go to Wolf Blitzer, who is live in Jerusalem to give us the latest on what is going on with the Israel defense force ground offensive.

What is the latest?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: The latest is the expanding, the Israeli military not only going after those tunnels that Hamas has built. They are going to destroy those tunnels. They say they have not been able to do that by air power alone. That's why they have sent ground forces. They are going after storage facilities and places where Hamas stores its missiles, equipment, a lot of that can't be destroyed by air power. That's why they are on the ground. The Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, say this is going to expand. Thousands are on the ground in Gaza. Reservists are on call right now. They have been activated. This is a very significant operation, and clearly the Israelis would like to destroy as much of Hamas's military capability as much as they can before international pressure mounts to call for some sort of cease fire and for the Israelis to withdraw. They want to really set back Hamas. They think they have an opportunity to do so and that's what they are trying to do.

TAPPER: Do we have any information about casualties from this latest ground offensive by the Israel defense forces? Either casualties in Gaza of Palestinians or of Israeli soldiers?

BLITZER: One Israeli soldier has now been confirmed killed in this operation. The Palestinians casualties continue. I think it's well over 250, so far. A big percentage of that, maybe the majority of those civilians who are caught in this battle because so much of it is small, heavily populated and Israelis acknowledge they can't avoid those casualties from to time to time, given where Hamas has stored this military infrastructure. There's no doubt as this operation continues, given the nature of the battlefield, if you will, it's going to escalate. There are going to be a lot more dead people in Gaza. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

TAPPER: Let's go back to Washington now, bringing in Jim Acosta live from the briefing room at the White House. Jim is standing by.

We're waiting for President Obama to come out. He was originally supposed to come out at 11:30 eastern. Now we're told it's noon. He's expected to be speaking about the crisis in Ukraine, specifically about the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 which the U.S. government believes was in all likelihood done by pro Russian separatists in Ukraine.

Jim, what's the latest?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake. I guess the latest might be sooner than noon. We got some initial guidance this was being pushed back by 30 minutes. We're told this could be happening momentarily.

One thing we want to point out we didn't hear much from the president about this. The reason why the president did not say a whole lot about this tragedy yesterday is because he wanted to make absolutely sure, the White House wanted to make absolutely sure that they had all the facts in hand before sending the president back out again. As you laid out, Jake, they do have more information about what caused this disaster but at the same time they are not exactly sure as to whether or not there were Americans on board. They are still working through that information. We may not hear the president talk about that here in a few moments, but I think what we will hear is the president talk about the assets that are being contributed to this investigation, NTSB and FBI officials that are being sent to Ukraine and they eventually go to the crash site and in addition to that as you saw in that very strong statement from White House press secretary last night, josh earnest putting out that statement saying while they don't have all the facts that this crash occurred in the context of Russia's involvement in Ukraine and so that was an early indication that the United States is starting to put the blame on Russia, on those separatists in Ukraine for what happened. The other thing we're very concerned about here at the White House, they are very concerned about the integrity of the crash site. They don't want any wreckage or evidence removed and we'll hear the president talk about that as well.

TAPPER: Let's go to Richard Quest in New York.

Richard, as our aviation expert, I'm wondering what exactly would investigators be looking for in this crash site other than the black box, other than missile fragments. What are they looking for to ascertain what exactly happened and who was responsible?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: They are looking for any fragments of fuselage, any part of metal, part of the plane, any metal that you can forensically examine that will show which way it was ripped, where the tears are, what holes there were, which direction they were. We know from Lockerbie and from TWA, we know from all these other incidents where planes have been brought out of the sky by explosives of some sort of another, they can tell, they are looking for residues, all sorts of things that can only be done in the most extreme circumstances of forensic laboratory. That's why getting there, seeing what there is, taking it away is so crucial. I can just tell you, Jake, the French authorities, the BEA, which is their equivalent of the NTSB has now said they are willing to be part of an international investigative team so what I'm guessing is that some form of team will coalesce, it will have the NTSB, BEA, they will be the ones that say OK we will go in and lead the investigation if you wish us to.

TAPPER: As a U.S. official told us yesterday there's an effort to internationalize this crash site today and put pressure on the pro Russian separatists.

Let's sneak in a quick break while we wait for President Obama to deliver remarks about the crash, the shooting down of the Malaysia airline 17. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN special coverage of the crisis of Ukraine and the shooting down of Malaysia airlines flight 17. We're expecting President Obama to speak at any moment.

Michelle Kosinski is at the White House. Jim Acosta is also at the White House. He's in the briefing room. Wolf Blitzer is in Jersey, Jim Sciutto is in Washington. We're covering all the angles.

Michelle, let's start with you.

President Obama is expected to offer condolences. He's expected to offer assistance. What else are we expecting him to say today? Do we expect him to be putting any pressure on Vladimir Putin?

KOSINSKI: Yeah, I mean, I think only verbally. I don't think there's going to be any action taken in terms of sanctions. That always takes time and coordination especially with Europe. The statement put out by the White House last night was pretty strong. Just when you see the kind of verbiage that the White House is using over and over again, that they are calling for a full, credible, unimpeded, transparent, prompt, international investigation. They have used all of those words, sometimes all of them at the same time over and over again. They want to make sure that U.S. Investigators, international investigators, can get there, that they have safe and unimpeded access as they have put it and they are able to participate in the investigation before anybody can move anything. Now, of course, there are already some indications based on what the Ukrainians have said that stuff has been moved away from that crash site, that a possible surface-to-air missile launcher has been moved away. This is all coming from the Ukrainians, unconfirmed by U.S. intelligence. But those are the real concerns there that anybody I will ever get to the bottom of it at this point. And I think what's really interesting is that when you look at the way things have been going over the last few months, and the information that has come out, according to U.S. officials here, and not all that has made headlines because with so many going on domestically, developments in Ukraine have almost seemed like it's the same thing day after day, to some extent, but there was this background briefing one month ago that we listened to, again, it's not as if it made breaking news headlines but we found it to be absolutely fascinating because these U.S. officials were talking about what they had confirmed in terms of the volume and type of Russian material moving across the border into Ukraine. I'm just looking at some of the notes. This is a month ago and we're saying we're confident that Russia last week sent tanks and rocket launchers, 24 hours ago, shipment of tanks and heavy artillery. What they are saying what they have been able to confirm is that these are things that the Ukrainians still use. The U.S. confirms it was moved into Ukraine from Russia but it's stuff that the Russians don't use anymore. So the U.S. is thinking that Russians deliberately moved this type of equipment over there to make it seem, if it was ever caught or when we see the separatists using it to make it seem that came from the Ukrainians and not from the Russians.

TAPPER: Jim, one of the interesting things that points a finger in the views of American officials as well as Ukrainian officials is the fact this is not the first plane to have been shot down even just in the last week or so. Not just by pro Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, but U.S. officials believe it's even likely that Russia itself shot down the Ukrainian cargo plane earlier this week.

SCIUTTO: Or at least that missile came from the Russian side of the border. But, Jake, I've got some new information that came from Ukraine officials, this is another recorded conversation of pro Russian separatists in Ukraine bragging how they got this BUK missile system, how they took it into the country from Russia. There was a recorded conversation. Remember, there was a recorded conversation that came out yesterday of these pro Russian militants as they shot down this passenger plane. This is a new recording which appears to be describing how they captured the missile system in Crimea. We're translating it now because it's in Russian. You have them bragging them about where do they load this beauty and they are saying specifically they have a BUK, missile system, from the Ukrainian side and to be clear, this is coming from the Ukrainian secret service, intelligence service, more evidence of their point of view of at least some Russian involvement, not necessarily that the Russians handed them this, but Russia would have to be involved if the system was transported through Russia into eastern Ukraine so more alarming evidence here.

TAPPER: The information war part of this conflict as well. We're going to squeeze in another quick break and we'll be right back

with comments from President Obama and continuing coverage of the crisis in Ukraine and, of course, the shooting down of Malaysian flight 17. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's continuing coverage of the crisis in Ukraine and the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines flight 17. We're expecting President Obama in the briefing room at the White House. He'll speak at any moment.

John Berman and Richard Quest are both in New York. Let's go back to them

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much, Jake.

There's been so many developments on this story all morning. So many countries involved. It is truly an international event. Several hours ago, there was a news conference in Malaysia. Malaysian officials and officials from Malaysian Airlines were being asked questions, many questions, persistent questions from reporters about this why plane, MH flight 17, was even flying over this conflict zone in east Ukraine.

As Jake said, I'm joined by our aviation expert, Richard Quest.

Richard, what's going on here?

QUEST: It is a very good question. Why should an airline fly over this zone when there's being a dispute?

BERMAN: At all.

QUEST: Right. Because it's allowed to. Most airlines have not. Many others are still flying over. I have two diagrams here. There's a flight that goes directly over Crimea. There's another that goes over Crimea.

BERMAN: It's interesting, Richard. President Obama due to speak any minute. A short time ago, we heard from the Russian ambassador in front of the United Nations. He was talking about that the flight was flying above while this conflict was going on.

I do want to go back to Jake Tapper in Washington. We did just get the two-minute warning that we're expecting to hear from the president shorts -- Jake?

TAPPER: That's right, John. President Obama is expected in the briefing room at White House in the next couple of minutes. We'll brig that to you live. Obama obviously finding himself in a difficult place because he wants to put pressure on Putin but how much pressure can one actually put on Vladimir Putin.

Jim Acosta, that seems to be the big challenge here, how far to go as far as pressuring Russia. ACOSTA: Yeah, Jake, I mean. Leaking up to Wednesday when Obama announced those new sanctions against Russia, one question was when was the White House, the United States, along with the Europeans going to impose more costs on Russia. Obviously, senior administration officials were watching this flow of arms and weapons, and some fighters across the border. That was further deescalating the situation. Jake, during that conference call about those sanctions, they talked about surface-to-air missiles being sold by companies being sanctions by that round of sanctions announced on Wednesday. This was a big concern for this White House.

One of the things we want to listen to when the president comes out, how much evidence the White House has. Do they have evidence that Russia delivered some of these missile systems to Ukraine, the pro separatists that might have been used in the shooting down of this flight?

Here comes the president now.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 took off from Amsterdam and was shot down over Ukraine near the Russian border. Nearly 300 innocent lives were taken. Men, women, children, infants who had nothing to do with the crisis in Ukraine. Their deaths are a outrage of unspeakable proportions. We know at least one American citizen, Quinn Lucas Chanceman (ph), was killed. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family for this terrible loss.

Yesterday I spoke with the leaders of Ukraine, Malaysia and the Netherlands. I told them that our thoughts and prayers are with all the families and that the American people stand with them during this difficult time. Later today I'll be speak with Prime Minister Abbott of Australia, which also suffered a terrible loss.

By far, the country that lost the most people on board the plane was the Netherlands. From the days of our founding, the Dutch have been close friends and stalwart allies of the United States of America and today I want the Dutch people to know we stand with you shoulder to shoulder in our grief and in our absolute determination to get to the bottom of what happened.

Now, here's what we know so far: Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by Russian-backed separatists inside of Ukraine. We also know this is not the first time a plane has been shot down in eastern Ukraine. Over the last several weeks, Russian- backed separatists have shot down a Ukrainian transport plane and a Ukrainian helicopter, and they claimed responsibility for shooting down a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Moreover, we know these separatists have received a steady flow of support from Russia. This includes arms and training. It includes heavy weapons and it includes anti-aircraft weapons. OBAMA: Now, here's what must happen now. This was a global tragedy.

An Asian airliner was destroyed in European skies filled with citizens from many countries, so there has to be a credible international investigation into what happened.

The U.N. Security Council has endorsed this investigation, and we will hold all its members, including Russia, to their word. In order to facilitate that investigation, Russia, pro-Russian separatists and Ukraine must adhere to an immediate cease-fire.

Evidence must not be tampered with, investigators need to access the crash site, and the solemn task of returning those who were lost on board the plane to their loved ones needs to go forward immediately.

Now, the United States stands ready to provide any assistance that is necessary. We've already offered the support of the FBI and the National Transportation Safety Board, which has experience in working with international partners on these types of investigations. They are on their way, personnel from the FBI and the National Transportation Safety Board. In the coming hours and days I'll continue to be in close contact with leaders from around the world as we respond to this catastrophe. Our immediate focus will be on recovering those who were lost, investigating exactly what happened, and putting forward the facts.

I want to point out there will likely be misinformation as well. I think it's very important for folks to sift through what is factually based and what is simply speculation. No one can deny the truth that is revealed in the awful images that we all have seen. And the eyes of the world are on eastern Ukraine, and we are going to make sure that the truth is out.

More broadly, I think it's important for us to recognize that this outrageous event underscores that it is time for peace and security to be restored in Ukraine. For months, we've supported a pathway to peace, and the, Ukrainian government has reached out to all Ukrainians, put forward a peace plan, and lived up to a cease-fire, despite repeated violations by the separatists, violations that took the lives of Ukrainian soldiers and personnel.

Moreover, time and again, Russia has refused to take the concrete steps necessary to de-escalate the situation. I spoke to President Putin yesterday in the wake of additional sanctions that we imposed. He said he wasn't happy with them, and I told him that we have been very clear from the outset that we want Russia to take the path (audio gap) in peace in Ukraine, but so far at least, Russia has failed to take that path.

Instead, it has continued to violate Ukrainian sovereignty and to support violent separatists. It has also failed to use its influence to press the separatists to abide by a cease-fire. That's why, together with our allies, we've imposed growing costs on Russia.

Now I think is a somber and appropriate time for all of us to step back and take a hard look at what has happened. Violence and conflict inevitably lead to unforeseen consequences. Russia, the separatists, and Ukraine all have the capacity to put an end to the fighting.

Meanwhile, the United States is going to continue to lead efforts within the world community to de-escalate the situation, to stand up for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, and to support the people of Ukraine as they courageously work to strengthen their democracy and make their own decisions about how they should move forward.

Before I take just a couple of questions, let me remark on one other issue this morning. I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel about the situation in Gaza. We discussed Israel's military operation in Gaza, including its efforts to stop the threat of terrorist infiltration through tunnels into Israel.

I reaffirmed my strong support for Israel's right to defend itself. No nation should accept rockets being fired into its borders or terrorists tunnelling into its territory. In fact, while I was having the conversation with Prime Minister Netanyahu, sirens went off in Tel Aviv.

I also made clear that the United States and our friends and allies are deeply concerned about the risks of further escalation and the loss of more innocent life. And that's why we've indicated, although we support military efforts by the Israelis to make sure that rockets are not being fired into their territory, we also have said that our understanding is the current military ground operations are designed to deal with the tunnels, and we are hopeful that Israel will continue to approach this process in a way that minimizes civilian casualties and that all of us are working hard to return to the ceasefire that was reached in November of 2012.