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CNN NEWSROOM

Terror Attack on Bus in Jerusalem; Hamas Political Leader Speaks Out; Why Can't Israel Simply Crush Hamas Outright?; Top Secret Serum Saved Life of American Patient with Ebola

Aired August 4, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM Mideast tinderbox.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, AC 360: Palestinian officials are saying that Israel violated the ceasefire already 20 minutes into it with a strike.

MARK REGEV, CHIEF SPOKESMAN FOR ISRAELI'S PRIME MINISTER: That's not true.

COSTELLO: A fragile, one-sided ceasefire this morning. A question of weapons and warnings.

As America bankrolls the bombs --

MARIE HARF, DEPUTY SPOKESPERSON, STATE DEPARTMENT: It's not optics we are worried about.

COSTELLO: How can the United States stay focused and subsidized?

HARF: We are worried about civilian casualties regardless of what ammunition is used.

COSTELLO: And Ebola emergency.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Watch as Brantly walks off the back of the ambulance.

COSTELLO: The American doctor being treated in Atlanta getting better this morning.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: He seems to be improved from reports we got earlier.

COSTELLO: As another flight leaves for Africa to pick up the second American patient.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They deserve the best medical care to try to resolve this infection.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything slides down and it's just this rush of, like, rock and water and mud. COSTELLO: Also, mudslides in California. Thousands stranded, roads

covered by almost eight feet of rock. Rescuers frantically digging through to find survivors.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with breaking views in the Middle East.

The Israeli Police say at least one person was killed and three injured after a terror attack in Jerusalem. This video shows the aftermath of the scene. Now officials say an earth-moving vehicle similar to a bulldozer slammed into a passenger bus and overturned it. The driver of the tractor who was still behind the wheel when Israeli Police arrived was shot dead by authorities.

All this happening as the temporary humanitarian ceasefire heads into its final hour.

So let's head right to CNN's Anderson Cooper. He's live in Jerusalem this morning.

Tell us more, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Carol, this incident occurred about three miles from where we are here. It was in central Jerusalem in an area near some international hotels. Police say they arrived very quickly on the scene. They found a -- what essentially was a backhoe tractor being used to try to topple over an Israeli passenger bus.

The bus itself was said to be largely empty, though the driver of the bus was said to have been injured in what police are labeling a terror attack. They said they shot dead the driver of the backhoe for about an hour or so. The body of that driver was lying by the side of the backhoe as police were investigating the scene and had cordoned off the entire area.

They have identified the driver as an Israeli-Arab, a Palestinian descent who lives in east Jerusalem. This is actually not the first time there's been an incident like this. There were several incidents in 2008 as well as 2009, also as recently as 2013, that heavy earth- moving equipment has been used in this manner, which is why police so quickly labeled this a terror attack.

Again, we are trying to find out obviously motivation of the driver of the vehicle and more about it. The driver, as I said, was killed. One civilian -- Israeli civilian was said to have been killed as well and three others injured.

Saima Mohsin is standing by on the scene.

Saima, what's latest that you're hearing?

SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. Right now there's a lot of activity going around. They're trying to remove the bus. They've just managed to get it upright. And you can probably see it behind me. The digger, the earth mover if you like that was used to turn it over and the bus itself, number 291.

Let me just tell you a bit about this area, Anderson. Just right next to my left is the main intersection. It's the road that -- a cross- section between east Jerusalem and west Jerusalem. This particular area is known locally as Beit Yisrael, which is Little Israel. It's a very orthodox area. You can probably see behind me a lot of people crowded around.

Up on the rooftops as well and in the windows, people are overlooking and actually there's a helicopter that's flying above as well right now because we understand there are search operations underway in surrounding areas as well.

And as I say, the driver of this digger has now been identified as a Palestinian resident from east Jerusalem. He took the digger, he drove it up this road through this area, first he hit a car and then he turned the bus over. Now what we understand is the driver of the bus was the only one on board. He's been seriously injured. And a pedestrian that was walking past has been killed. As far as the driver of the digger is concerned, there was an encounter with police.

Now what I'm told, Anderson, is police in any kind of what's considered to be life-threatening situation at liberty to shoot because I asked police, why didn't you arrest him for questioning, why don't we know more about his motive. As you say, we still don't know the motive yet. And they said, well, in a life-threatening situation like this, police officers are given permission to shoot to kill. That's what they did.

Until a short while ago, his body was laying behind me. And as they took the body away, we heard clapping, we heard cheering and we heard chanting "death to all Arabs." -- Anderson.

COOPER: Saima Mohsin, reporting from the scene, appreciate it.

So, Carol, obviously this just adds to the tension that exists and has existed here since the fighting in Gaza has been underway. About an hour left in this ceasefire, this unilateral ceasefire, that Israel called, that has been in effect now for some six hours.

So, Carol, we'll see what happens when that ceasefire ends an hour from now.

COSTELLO: All right. Anderson Cooper reporting live from Jerusalem this morning. Many thanks.

And tonight on CNN, be sure to check out a special "AC 360" live from Jerusalem. That's at 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

In the meantime, Hamas refuses to commit to the humanitarian truce. The group's political leader Khaled Meshaal sat down with CNN's Nic Robertson for an exclusive interview over the weekend. Meshaal says Hamas has a right to defend itself against attacks from

Israel and denies accusations the group uses civilians as human shields.

CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson joins us live this morning from Abu Dhabi with more.

Hi, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, hi, Carol. One of the things I asked Khaled Meshaal is how much control does he have as a political leader in exile, hundreds and hundreds of miles from Gaza where the fighters are on the ground, he says they've been through this before there and thinks his political leadership is still good. He says that's why Secretary Kerry -- Secretary of State John Kerry involves him in discussions through the -- the Qatari intermediaries.

But I also put to him the very vexing issue, the fact that Hamas continues to fire its missiles from in civilian neighborhoods.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: President Obama said it is irresponsible of Hamas to fire their rockets from civilian neighborhoods. That's what you're doing. Why do you do it when you know civilians are going to die?

KHALED MESHAAL, HAMAS POLITICAL LEADER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Look at the results. How many Israeli civilians that our rockets killed? Israel knows the number, meanwhile how many Palestinian civilians has Israel killed? Up until now it killed 1700 people, while we killed, by Israel's own admission, 63 soldiers. We killed soldiers, combatants, while they kill civilians.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTSON: But because -- because you're firing your rockets from civilian neighborhoods. That's where you're firing your rockets from. Your rockets are fired, Israel says, indiscriminately to civilian areas, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem. President Obama says you're firing your rockets from civilian neighborhoods and you know what that means, that you will have high civilian casualties.

Critics are saying that the only reason that you're doing this is so that you get the international outpouring of international sympathy because of the high civilian casualties.

MESHAAL (Through Translator): It is unfortunate that the U.S. administration and President Obama have adopted the Israeli narrative, which is a lie. Hamas sacrifices itself for its people and does not use its people as human shields to protect its soldiers. These are lies and Hamas does not seek international sympathy through its own victims.

ROBERTSON: What are you prepared to do to get a ceasefire? Are you prepared to destroy your tunnels? Are you prepared to stop firing rockets at Israel? Are you prepared to accept the right of Israel as a state to exist?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): We are ready for a ceasefire. We don't want war. We want the war to end today. And we did not attack anyone. It was Netanyahu who transferred the crisis that took place in the West Bank on June 12th to Gaza. He is responsible for this. We are ready to stop this war and we want a ceasefire.

ROBERTSON: But are you ready to stop building rockets? Are you ready to stop firing rockets?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): I will answer you. I will answer you. Why are there demands only on the Palestinian people to get off their modest and simple weapons but no similar demands on Israel? The occupying the state. We are ready to discuss the removal of weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Well, I also asked him the question about, why does Hamas store weapons inside schools, inside mosques? He said that's not happening. That's contrary to evidence that Israeli troops have found when they've gone inside mosques inside Gaza. It's contrary to what the U.N. has reported it seeing, but he said they're not doing it. He also said that if international monitors want to come and take a look, then they can do that as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So a question for you, why is -- why isn't Hamas' political leader in Gaza with his people?

ROBERTSON: Sure, I mean, this goes back a long ways. He's essentially on the run from Israeli authorities. When he was in exile for -- he believed for his own safekeeping in Jordan many years ago, Israeli agents poisoned him and it was only through the work of King Hussein of Jordan at the time who got the antidote from the Israeli team that went into -- went in to target. They got the antidote and it was administered and he survived.

And then he went to live in exile in Syria until the -- until the crisis broke out there. He was looking for somewhere else. The Qataris took him in. The Qataris took him in because -- because Hamas is very close to the Muslim Brotherhood in ideology. And it's widely viewed that the Qataris support the Muslim Brotherhood.

This is why he's in exile. He believes it's for his safety. There's a lot of security goes on in the hours proceeding that interview that you saw there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Nic Robertson, reporting love from Abu Dhabi this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the fighting in Gaza pits one of the world's strongest military against a much weaker foe. Why is Israel having such a hard time stamping out Hamas?

We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A telling scene playing out today in Israel. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): A soldier captured on video making a v for victory sign as a column of tanks moves on a road near the Israeli- Gaza border. Israeli officials, though, are quit to insist there is no draw-down or withdrawal in the progress of these troops. We are still trying to figure out exactly what is going on on the border.

We do know the fighting in Gaza raises questions about tactics and strategy, though. Israel's military might is far superior, but Hamas survived and dragged the battle out for weeks. Why can't Israel simply crush Hamas outright? Well, of course its part of the answer, that network of tunnels Hamas uses to smuggle arms and supplies and launch surprise attacks on Israeli troops.

Joining me now CNN military analyst Colonel Rick Francona. Good morning, Colonel.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So Israel knew that some of these tunnels were being constructed, right?

FRANCONA: Sure.

COSTELLO: But it didn't exactly know what Hamas was going to use the tunnels for.

FRANCONA: Well, I think they realized if they were crossing the border they were going to be used to infiltrate guerilla tactical squads into Israel and try and kill or kidnap Israeli citizens. I don't think they realized the extent of the tunnels or how well they were constructed. When they got down in there and saw that these things were made of pre-cast concrete, they said this is much bigger than we thought. And it was much more involved. There are miles of these tunnels.

COSTELLO: Why couldn't Israel determine that with all the surveillance technology it has?

FRANCONA: You know, that's an interesting question. I got a friend an email from a friend of mine who is in engineering, he said they would have to have moved 7,000 dump trucks full of dirt. So that's easily detectable. So you wonder why they weren't aware of the extent of the tunnel network. The tunnel network is just a fabulous tool if you're fighting an a-symmetric war. It was used against the United States in Vietnam, its been used by other guerilla - -

COSTELLO: Explain an a-symmetric war?

FRANCONA: A-symmetric is when you have a large, conventional force, much like the Israelis, much like us, the Russians, whoever. Where you are organized into divisions, you've got tanks and aircraft, and formations and you are forced to fight a small guerilla organization which doesn't have a headquarters. There's not a headquarters you can go bomb, blow up and declare victory. You have to root the people out, they're part of the population. Very difficult to find. If you can find them, you can kill them. The problem is finding them.

COSTELLO: And this isn't just a problem for Israel, right? It's been a problem for the United States and fighting guerilla warfare.

FRANCONA: Any time you have an insurgency on the other person's territory and the civilian population is generally in support of that, they hide them, they just blend in. One day they're fighting, the next day they are baking bread. And then at night they put on, they don't even put on uniforms, they just grab a rifle, they go somewhere, come back home. Very, very difficult to attack. You have to actually get in and recruit the population to be on your side. Very difficult to do.

COSTELLO: As we well know, right? So, Israel is using tanks, air strikes to destroy these tunnels. Is there a better way besides what you just said?

FRANCONA: It is very difficult for the Israelis because, you know, you've got pretty much in Gaza you have a homogenous population. They're the Palestinians. And then you've got the Israelis which are completely different, and the animosity is so great for the Israelis to win over a portion of the Palestinian population would be very, very difficult right now. Especially since they have basically had Gaza under siege for years. I don't see that - -

COSTELLO: And so many civilians are being killed including children, and that doesn't endear Israelis to anyone in Gaza.

FRANCONA: Especially in this round. The numbers are just astronomical, the amount of civilian casualties being inflicted because these weapons don't just destroy the house. They take out the whole block. It is very difficult.

COSTELLO: So what do you think the end game is? Because Israel came out and said you know, we think we have destroyed most of these tunnels but we are still going to fight.

FRANCONA: Well, the end game as you heard the interview with Nick and (inaudible), he knows what he wants the end game to look like. He wants there to be a Gaza Strip with no restrictions and the airport ---.

COSTELLO: Well, that isn't going to happen.

FRANCONA: And that isn't going to happen.

COSTELLO: No. But on Israel's part, what is the end game?

FRANCONA: The Israelis want security on their border. They would be happy just to go back to the way it was a month ago, but that's not going to happen either. So we have to find some way in the middle. That's why the negotiations are so important and I think the Israelis would just like to get the Palestinians to the bargaining table with a position that both sides can accept. Right now, unfortunately, I think they are still talking past each other and not to each other.

COSTELLO: Colonel Rick Francona, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, some breaking news on a secret serum that likely saved the life of an American doctor infected with Ebola.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta following all the developments for us. Hi, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol. Some stunning details about this, just how it got to Liberia and also how quickly it seems to have worked for Dr. Kent Brantly. We'll have that right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Some breaking news on the American doctor infected with Ebola. CNN has learned a top secret serum, a medication, likely saved his life. A source familiar with the details says Dr. Kent Brantly was given the experimental treatment known as ZMAb when his condition took a turn for the worse last week. That's while he was still in Liberia. Of course he is now in Atlanta receiving treatment in an isolation ward at Emory University Hospital. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is live at Emory this morning where he is on the faculty. Hi, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Good morning, Carol. We have found out some pretty extraordinary details about this. Go ahead, Carol.

COSTELLO: No, no I was just going to ask you about the serum but you're explaining so go right ahead, Sanjay.

GUPTA: It was pretty extraordinary the details that we got about this. It was flown in apparently Liberia last week as some discussion had taken place between the organization for which Dr. Brantly and Nancy Writebol were working and the NIH. At least, representatives of the NIH. This was flown in, it came frozen, stored at sub zero temperatures, and had to be thawed out. The discussions apparently went that Dr. Brantly offered for Miss Writebol to take this medication first, given that he was younger, more robust, and that was the plan. But at some point during the thawing process of this medication, Carol, apparently Dr. Brantly's condition took a turn for the worse.

According again to sources, they say that he developed labored breathing, had a difficult time breathing, and even said to some of the doctors, other people in the room, that he thought he was going to die. They brought the medication, at that point that was destined for Miss Writebol, and brought it to Dr. Brantly's room. What happened next, Carol, I think is the most extraordinary part for me. They say they gave it to him, and again he went from thinking he was going to die in very dire conditions, to nearly a complete reversal within an hour or so.

His breathing improved. He had a significant rash that was over the trunk of his body that just sort of dissipated. By the next morning, he was able to get up and shower prior to the already pre-planned jet medevacuation to the United States. So, it came in frozen. Not many people knew about it. It was administered, originally destined for Miss Writeboll, then to Dr. Brantly if was given, and it seem to have had an extraordinary impact, and a very quick one as well, Carole. And these are details that we have just gotten over the last few hours.

COSTELLO: But the serum has not even been approved for human use so where did it come from?

GUPTA Yes, no. It has never been tried before in humans. We found some of the studies about it just in monkeys it had been used. It had significant benefit in monkeys. It is unclear exactly how this all transpired. We have been talking to people at the NIH and it is unclear if this came under a compassionate care sort of situation where sometimes you can appeal to give something to somebody if its felt that there are no other options and this may provide some benefit. But you're absolutely right, this is highly unusual, Carol. Typically things go through clinical trials. Phase one which is safety, phase two to see if it is effective. Sometimes you can do things outside of clinical trials, but remember, it was within just about a week, a week and a couple days after exposure that this was given to them. So however this all happened, it happened extremely fast, Carol.

COSTELLO: The other question, hundreds of people are dying in West Africa. So why isn't this serum being used on them?

GUPTA: Well, you know, again, what we are reporting is literally something that's transpired over the last several hours. They didn't know before Dr. Brantly using it, that he would have never been given this, so I think the idea of making it mass available, that really wasn't really on the table. But we did ask the same question to Dr. Fauci at the NIH, if this seems to have worked so well, could this be made more widely available? We know additional funding has already been secured. The Defense Threat Reduction Agency, that's a specific agency designed to reduce threats they've increased funding to this particular company that makes this particular medication.

And we also know that this -- the way it's given now is extremely difficult to take. It has to be stored frozen, it has to be thawed out slowly. You don't administer heat to it. My whole point is, these are difficult things to implement in the middle of the field in remote conditions. But whether it can be sort of modified to make it more easily available, more useful, as you point out, to the hundreds of people who could use it right now, I think those discussions are already underway.

COSTELLO: Alright, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, many thanks to you. Remember, you can watch "SANJAY GUPTA, MD" every Saturday afternoon at 4:30 eastern and Sunday mornings at 7:00 a.m. eastern right here on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the escalating tensions in Gaza putting a strain on U.S.-Israeli relations, but is the U.S. sending a mixed message, criticizing Israeli military strikes but supplying the kinds of weapons used in those strikes? we'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)