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DR. DREW

Wife: "I Thought I Was Filleting A Fish"; Six Kids Living in House of Filth

Aired August 6, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, house of filth. Police say six children, including a baby, were covered with lice and bites, and

living with a pig inside this home.

The behavior bureau has questions for these two now behind bars.

Plus, the Facebook fire child -- alcohol, matches and a teenage brain make for a dangerous social media trend.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

Coming up, what may be the most dangerous social media game yet, you just saw it, the fire challenge -- big on YouTube. It`s unbelievable. Look at

this guy!

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: It`s so stupid, Dr. Drew. In fact, it`s all over my Facebook feed. I cannot imagine why people are doing this.

PINSKY: Wait, we got -- oh -- as a clinician you look at that and shake your head. I`ll be bringing this back into the conversation because this

has a lot to do with why the kids do this nonsense.

SCHACHER: Oh, the brain.

PINSKY: First up, the wife who said she slit her husband`s sleeping throat because she was dreaming about filleting a fish. She`s now charged with

attempted murder.

Tonight, we have the 911 call. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OPERATOR: Jefferson County 911, what is your emergency?

CALLER: My mom just cut my dad`s throat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jones was charged with attempted murder and aggravated assault. Investigators say she sliced her husband`s throat with

a knife.

OPERATOR: OK. Where is your dad at?

CALLER: He`s coming downstairs now to get away from her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She made threats that she would kill him and she almost did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jones daughter told investigators her mom had been planning this for about a year and that girl`s call to 911 right after it

happened likely saved her father`s life.

OPERATOR: OK, is he bleeding real bad?

CALLER: Yes, please hurry.

OPERATOR: OK, we`ll get an ambulance and a police officer down there, OK? Bye.

CALLER: Bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Remarkably calm.

Joining us, Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywood.com, Loni Coombs, attorney, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", and Bill Lloyd,

forensic pathologist.

Loni, what do you think of this thing?

LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: You know, Dr. Drew, as soon as I heard her say that she was thinking she was filleting a fish and that she actually slitting

her husband`s throat, I thought, oh my goodness, it`s the Ambien defense. She`s going to claim she was a zombie under the influence of Ambien. And

that was happening. She had no idea what she was doing and she didn`t mean to slit her husband`s throat and she had no idea was doing it.

And this defense has actually come up a number of times in many different cases from driving under the influence, or people to have been killed to

just recently a guy who strangled his girlfriend who`s saying the same thing. I had no idea what I was doing. I had taken Ambien, and the next

thing I wake up, and my girlfriend is dead.

PINSKY: All right. Counselor, so, here`s what I want to do, I did this last night, too. I`m going to be your expert witness, OK?

Thank you. Here we go. Courtroom theater.

Counselor, unfortunately, there`s no evidence -- I`m coming to understand that there`s no evidence that your client was under the influence of any

hypnotic and this was her baseline defense against bizarre behavior.

Now, there are sleep disturbances. In fact, do we have a fuel screen of that, producers?

Yes, there are sleep problems that people get into, these REM sleep disorders where they can kick and punch and jump, all kinds basically

anything you can do when you`re awake, you can do when you`re asleep, but sometimes they`re very agitated when they do these things.

And do we have the full screen of what the potential associated illnesses are? We don`t have that.

Well, there`s lots of things that can do it, including medications, associated with neuro-degenerative disorders, associated with mania. So,

there are other neurological psychiatric conditions that can set somebody up for that. So, you think your client has that?

COOMBS: Well, I don`t know. But, Dr. Drew, whether we know she`s actually taking Ambien or not, isn`t it true that people under the influence of

Ambien have done strange things like (INAUDIBLE) cigarettes and things, and had no idea they were doing it until the next morning when they wake up and

they see their remnants around their home, like what happened here?

PINSKY: I like the way you`re so disgusted by their behavior with Ambien influence.

What`s up, Sam?

SCHACHER: Yes, but -- I mean, this woman has no prior history of a sleep disorder. She`s threatened her husband before. I mean, it`s almost

insulting. If I was a juror and this was her defense, I would be, are you the student who also used to say your dog ate your home work.

This woman is an abuser. And men can be victims of domestic violence, too. She`s done it again, and before. And also, Dr. Drew, a lot of people, I

asked this question last night, why didn`t he ever leave? Maybe he was suffering from some sort of battered man syndrome.

PINSKY: Well, we`ll get to that in a little bit with the behavior bureau.

But, Dr. Lloyd, let`s talk about, you know, I saw you nodding your head when I was talking about the sleep disturbances and the Ambien. A lot of

our Facebook and social media users were bringing up the Ambien issues because many of them had bizarre stories associated with it.

But the question I have for you is, how does she make a cut from ear to ear and missed major structures in the neck?

BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: It`s a real puzzle. It`s almost like a surgeon skill where she defected from ear to ear, as if she were using a scalpel,

but she was just using an ordinary household knife. How could it be?

The answer is anatomy. Her husband Thomas was saved because of anatomy. Lying in the bed we would call that supine. The posture of the neck and

spine was protecting the neck initially. And then following the startle -- Drew, you know this -- your platysma muscles and your sternocleidomastoid

create a muscular wall to protect those vital structures. So, it`s his own anatomy that saved his life.

PINSKY: Now, I agree with you. So, he`s initially with the chin forward and then tightens up.

Vanessa, you don`t like our explanation? You don`t like our --

VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I don`t understand. It went right over my head. We`re being frank here.

And secondly, he scared the crap out of me. He whipped up those knives so fast and I`m not even near him. I`m disturbed.

PINSKY: He`s a pathologist. He dissects. You got to understand.

BARNETT: Clearly, what I will say is, I think we -- I think it might be your fault, Dr. Drew, that people listen to you and they hear your

knowledge and they know all these new things about the brain, we were talking about the frontal lobe today. You educated the masses, and now,

crazy people like this one think they`ll use that as a defense and get away with murder.

And people are doing this more and more so when it really happens to someone, we don`t believe them anymore.

PINSKY: That`s a interesting observation, Vanessa. And thankfully, it`s not the crazy perpetrators. It`s the crazy attorneys that do a lot -- that

come up with those.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I`m just saying, far be it from me to cast aspersions.

OK. Listen, guys, we got to move on. Thank you, panel.

Next up, there`s a history of trouble in this family. You`re not going to believe the circumstances.

Later, as we told you, teens setting themselves on fire to be famous and part of a social media trend. You will not believe what they`re doing.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPERATOR: Jefferson County 911, what is your emergency?

CALLER: My mom just cut my dad`s throat.

PINSKY: In 2013, she was charged with disorderly conduct for threatening to stab her husband. Later that same year, charged with domestic violence

for threatening the husband`s life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When a woman tells you, I`m going to kill you, you had better believe it. When she gets to that point with her man that she`s

saying I am going to slice and dice, he better sleep with one eye open.

SCHACHER: She used to threaten her husband to kill him. Why didn`t he leave?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That is Sam`s question. We`re going to pose to behavior bureau.

Erica America, psychotherapist, Z100 Radio personality, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University, and Leeann Tweeden,

social commentator, host of the "Tomboy`s Podcast" on Blog Talk Radio.

Woman is accused of slashing her husband`s throat. In her sleep, she claimed she was dreams of filleting a fish. She has two previous domestic

violence judgments against her that we know of. And the one from October, this gets at what Sam was asking about, the victim requested the temporary

protection order be lifted.

So, Sam, you go ahead and pose the question to our behavior -- pose it to Judy first.

SCHACHER: OK. So, Judy, obviously, men are victims of domestic violence, too. So, can they also suffer some form of a male-battered syndrome, kind

of like a woman battered syndrome?

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Good question, Sam. Absolutely they can.

And in these types of relationships, the relationship has developed to a point where there`s a certain dynamic that keeps persisting. So the

dynamic is in this relationship that the man is sort of the one down. He`s always the one who is trying to please the one up, this wife.

So, even when the wife is abusive, he will protect the wife. He will come into her defense. He will maybe even take on the blame for her. That`s

what you see here when he asked the temporary protective order to be lifted.

PINSKY: So, it`s sort of an enmeshment, a codependency. And to answer your question, yes, it happens and yes, the man can sort of have a similar

syndrome, a battered husband syndrome.

Erica, you agree?

ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Yes, absolutely. This is the same thing as when a woman is being abused by a man. I think that -- you know, I often

talk about the mother goggles, I think he had the husband goggles on, we were sort of blinded by his love for her, hoped that things will get

better, overlooked violent tendencies.

And also, there`s probably also some sort of codependency, as you mentioned, Dr. Drew, yes, as well as low self esteem. Now, I think it`s

going to be interesting to see if he still defends her even that she did admit. I read that she admitted that she did try to kill him. She first

had the fillet fish excuse and then went and said, you know what, I really was trying to kill him.

So, we`ll see how really enmeshed this man is if he still is by her side.

PINSKY: Leeann, what do you make of it?

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I -- you know, look, I`m from Manassas, Virginia. Do you all remember Lorena Bobbitt? She`s (INAUDIBLE)

wasn`t dreaming filleting hotdogs or sausages. That`s all I`m going to say about that. And he is lucky to be alive.

PINSKY: Wait, wait, is she from Manassas?

TWEEDEN: Well, that`s where it happened. It was right down the street from where I grew up.

PINSKY: I know now to be more careful around Leeann.

TWEEDEN: Hey, I`m not saying it was in the water, but it did happen in my home town.

But anyways, what`s disappointing to me is that you would think that he`s a man. So, you think that men are strong. I know he could have the battered

husband or a battered man syndrome. But you have a 16-year-old daughter to think about. This is not just you and your wife, right?

Sometimes I think in the back of my head, was he dependent on her financially? Was she the one who worked and brought home the bacon?

PINSKY: Usually, Leeann, it`s funny you said. Usually, it`s not that. It`s a psychologically dependency, interdependency. He may be holding it

together for the kids. He may feel responsible for how the wife is behaving. He may have been raised as a caretaker, Judy, agree with that,

by his own parents?

HO: Absolutely, Dr. Drew.

And, you know, before the physical abuse started, there was a lot of emotional abuse probably. So, the wife has really worn him down over a

series of years to make him feel bad about himself, that he can`t survive on his own, that that the only person that would ever love him is his wife.

That all set up has to happen before he actually gets in this pattern of depending on her in this way.

PINSKY: Samantha?

SCHACHER: Yes, and it`s really sad because if you listen to the teenager calling 911, it`s really telling. Even though she`s panting and she`s

breathing rapidly, she is relatively calm which suggests to me --

TWEEDEN: As if she`s been through it before.

SCHACHER: That`s what I was going to say.

PINSKY: Yes, I would call it even kind of disassociated.

Erica, what do you think is going to happen to that poor little girl?

AMERICA: Yes, I mean, I just hope she gets a lot of help and therapy and hopefully she has a good network of friends as well as therapists.

Yes, I mean, I think even the excuse of the filleting the fish thing, gets us into the psyche of this woman. You know, she was very cunning, and she

probably had a lot all over this man.

PINSKY: That`s interesting. And maybe --

TWEEDEN: When you`re cutting the neck, Dr. Drew, how did she mess that up?

PINSKY: How did he not kill him?

TWEEDEN: He had stitches from ear to ear. I mean, how did she not kill him?

PINSKY: That`s what I asked Dr. Lloyd, and he was saying that she must not have used a big knife, she must not have slashed. By the way, I keep

thinking, she must also not have been asleep because you have to get a pretty steady hand to not slash and not hurt any of the critical structures

in the neck.

And, Dr. Lloyd said, you know, his chin is down when he`s asleep and the tightening of the muscles protect -- and even that, it`s hard to believe.

It`s certainly hard to believe she was asleep.

TWEEDEN: Poor daughter.

PINSKY: Poor daughter, poor man. This is a mess. You know, I don`t see much good coming at this. The only good thing that can happen is the

daughter gets adequate treatment and gets away from these parents -- Judy.

HO: Yes, that`s a daughter, Dr. Drew. You know, don`t you think her sense of calmness is her reaction to living a life of chaos. She has to be the

calm one.

TWEEDEN: She`s like the adult.

PINSKY: Well, she may be the caretaker. It`s a disassociated state. It`s not good. Children need to be children and taken care of by the adults,

not the children taking care of the adults.

Next up, our most tweeted story tonight, the so-called house of filth. The house of filth that police say six children -- there you go -- were living

in squalor with that animal -- well, a domesticated version of that. More like that.

And then later, the fire challenge. Teens setting themselves ablaze. This is the burns that ensue. They put rubbing alcohol all over their body --

or rub their body with alcohol and then just light things on fire to see what happens. Fantastic.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Six children found living in a house of filth. These two adults have been charged with child neglect. Police were lead to this home when

school staffers noticed bug bites all over the children.

Starvation was suspected as the children devoured up to three plates of food in one setting. Police say an overwhelming odor of sewage permeated

the property. And the home was infested with cockroaches, lice and animal feces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: All right. I`m back with Sam, Vanessa, Loni and joining us, Adrianna Costa, entertainment journalist.

Here now is the most tweeted about story of the night. Officers conducting a welfare check say they found flees swarming around the six children, with

bug bites, lies, dead cockroaches floating in their bathtub.

Sam, there`s more, right?

SCHACHER: Oh, Dr. Drew, there`s more. There are two large pigs and a small pig living underneath the house outside. There`s an additional pig,

a fourth pig inside, three dogs, a bedroom full of snakes, as you said, there was animal feces all other the house and then the floors were

saturated in urine.

PINSKY: And, Vanessa, I see disbelief on your face.

BARNETT: I just -- I cannot believe this happens. And this isn`t the first time we`ve heard about a horrible story like this, but I`m still

blown away that people can treat their own flesh and blood like this. That it continued for so long.

Like all of the kids had multiple bites. That did these kids not go to school in did people not see them in the hallways? How do you not feed a

child? How do you just -- then on the flip side, send them to vacation bible school. I`m just so confused by the story.

And this is attempted murder. Let`s be honest. This is not just neglect. This is attempted murder. When you don`t feed someone, they will die.

PINSKY: Adrianna, do you agree?

ADRIANNA COSTA, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST & HOST: How about the fact that they were living in this was well, I believe? This is not a matter of the

way you choose to live whether you`re OCD clean. I mean, these people were living in squalor. Like you said, Vanessa, it is pure abuse.

They do not deserve custody of these kids. I`m glad they were taken away. And end of story, period. They need to not be given back to these unfit

parents.

I worry when there`s a fly in my house that it doesn`t land on my kid`s head. This is ridiculous. They don`t have the protective gene, these

parents.

PINSKY: Loni?

COOMBS: Well, let`s put this in context. I mean, this is a very gross situation, we all hate seeing those videotapes. But these children were

not injured in any way. The police report said they didn`t have -- I know, Vanessa, I know you`re flipping out, but they were not physically abused,

they were not sexually abused as far as we know.

So, it`s a hygiene thing. And clearly parents needs to learn how to be able to -- hold on Vanessa. But I`m talking about the spectrum. When you

say it`s attempted murder, there are other cases that are much more serious than that.

PINSKY: Loni, you`re right and think about how we`ve lowered the bar for parenting. At least they weren`t sexually and physically abusing their

kids.

Hold you guys, hold on your thoughts. I want to talk to somebody there on the scene.

On the phone, I`ve got the Chief Jeff Bowers. He is of the Wellford Police Department. His officers made the wellness check at the home.

Chief Bowers, thank you for joining us.

We want to hear the details in this case so we can make sense of the behavior of these so-called parents. What did the home look like? What

did your officers find?

JEFF BOWERS, CHIEF OF POLICE, WELLFORD POLICE DEPT. (via telephone): It was as you said, roach infested, fleas in it, the pig was inside, as well

as some dogs, there was animal fecal matter in the floor.

PINSKY: And you saw the female, the mother, so-called, speak in court today. What was your impression?

BOWERS: Actually, that was on Monday. She was -- we had a probable cause hearing on Monday and she was in -- she was of course very remorseful and

saying that she was trying to do better and was moving out of that home and trying to get a better home for the children. The father was not there.

PINSKY: Is there any speculation -- to me, this looks like something wrong with their brain, something where they didn`t see things, either they were

psychiatrically affected, or they were medically in trouble. Or they were in substances.

And you see their pictures, if you guys throw their picture back up again, too. They look like they`ve been on a run of something.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Do you know anything about that? Or is that just pure speculation on my part now?

BOWERS: That would be pure speculation. We didn`t find any drugs in the home or anything of that nature during our search.

PINSKY: Vanessa, you wanted to ask a question and then, Sam.

BARNETT: I also read that this wasn`t the first visit to the home, there had been multiple visits, they had been cited for a goat and some other

things.

My question is why wasn`t there anything done earlier, because I can`t imagine this house looked any differently than it did this time around.

BOWERS: During those things, it was a code enforcement issue on the animal ordinance we have. We did not make entry inside the home. We were just

talking with him about the animals outside the home, which are the goats and the pigs and stuff of that nature. It was a violation of the animal

control ordinance.

PINSKY: OK. Chief, thank you so much for helping us try to get our head around this.

We were going to chat amongst ourselves here in a second.

Loni, you were shaking your head when he said the animal check.

COOMBS: Yes, it`s hard to imagine they were more concerned about the chickens and the goat and not the six children that were probably there and

had these bites all over. Thank heavens, you know, the Bible study they were going to, someone said, hey, look, here are some children who have

lice, who have fleas, who had bites from head to toe, and are starving every time we feed them food, they ate three or four plates, and actually

called the police, that was a really wonderful thing and saved these children.

PINSKY: Yes. And yet, Sam, they sent them to bible school. It`s such a confusing thing, like Vanessa said.

SCHACHER: Yes, it doesn`t make sense.

But Dr. Drew, I`m with you. They don`t look healthy in that picture. She`s 22. She looks much older than 22. There has to be some sort of

mental illness -- hold on, Vanessa.

PINSKY: Not excused. Just trying to understand how it could happen.

BARNETT: It`s such a big discrepancy, big age difference, 22 to 41. It seems like this guy sort of leading the sheep and she`s following him.

SCHACHER: Can I finish my statement? Can I finish my statement without somebody interrupting me for once?

PINSKY: Not on this show, Sam. Please? Come on now.

SCHACHER: Here I am raising my hand like I`m in class. Every time, the joke is on me.

OK, what I was going to say I felt like there`s mental illness because of the fact they`re clearly hoarding animals.

PINSKY: Well, the hoarding issue is something we`re going to talk about when we get the behavior bureau in here because I want to describe what

that is and what that looks like and what things associated with that. So, let`s get into it.

Next up, will the children recover from this or is this going to be traumatic for them? The behavior bureau is going to get into that as well.

And later, speaking of trauma, I`m traumatized just watching these videos, teens risking their lives. This is the burns that ensue, all because of a

social media stunt.

Can you show the fire part, guys? Let me -- I understand showing just some bandages begins to give you the idea of what happened. But wait until you

see how they get this way. You`ve got to see this.

We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Police conducting a welfare check on this home say the six children in it, including a 2-year-old were covered with insect bites and lice.

Police report that dogs and swine were found all over the house. One pig living inside. Officers say the floors saturated with urine and the dead

cockroaches floated in a bathtub. This man and woman have been charged with six counts of child neglect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and the Behavior Bureau, Erica, Judi and Leeann. Now, those -- tonight, those children are in protective custody. The 22-

year-old woman, believed to be the mother of some of the six children is free on bond. She said in her arraignment that she plans to do better.

The 41-year-old partner remains behind bars. Leeann, a 23-month-old swarmed with flees and covered with bug bites in a home with pigs and dogs

and animal feces. Can you imagine?

LEEANN TWEEDEN. SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You have to do better. And, I know you probably asked me this because I am a mother of an 11-month-old and I

just cannot even imagine. A. I cannot imagine living in that filth, myself. Look, I am not the tidiest person in the world, but I am certainly

not living in a house with feces and tepid water in a bathtub with bugs dead floating in it and cockroaches everywhere. I just cannot even imagine

that she could stand for that.

PINSKY: Right.

TWEEDEN: Now, what I have a problem with is that they sent people to the house. Sure, OK. I get it. They are looking at a goat infraction, right?

OK, they have some -- probably animals that they are not checking on. But, do those welfare officers, are they just like "Not my job to may be ask if

they have children to think maybe this is kind of a messy place to live. May be we can just check the inside of your house and see that you have a

pig living inside." That is probably not right either. When you see the floors covered in feces. I mean we have to do right by these kids.

PINSKY: You are right.

TWEEDEN: And, are there any neighbors? I mean anybody that sees them? If they go to bible study -- have they gone to church at all?

PINSKY: Well this is our question. Why did not the school you know sort of report this earlier?

TWEEDEN: Right. It just seems like a lot of people --

PINSKY: But, Leeann, it is because of the bible study group that they were reported. So, somebody did see something and say something.

TWEEDEN: Right. But, I mean were they not going to church weekly? Is it once a year they were being sent in.

PINSKY: It is hard to believe that they were doing much of anything that those parents could organize given they could not even sweep from the

animal feces.

TWEEDEN: Right.

PINSKY: But Sam, you asked an important question in the last block about the hoarding issue. Want to ask that again?

SAM SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. As long as I am not interrupted. But, no, I basically said is, you know, it does seem like that there has to

be some form of mental illness. And, again, it is not an excuse. It just seems like that they are hoarding a bunch of animals.

PINSKY: OK. All right. Erica, do you want to respond? Then, Judi will put up some of the issues associated with hoarding. Go ahead, Erica.

ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Sure. Sure. I think it is a great idea, but I do not really see it as hoarding. The first thing that came to my

mind is these people are severely addicted to some substance to be out of it or they are mentally ill.

PINSKY: Well, Erica -- Erica --

AMERICA: So, it is not necessarily hoarding or it can be a form of addiction so absolutely.

PINSKY: But, Erica --- Erica, the officer said there was no evidence of substance use.

AMERICA: OK. OK. So, we do not know that, but also there was also -- I usually always agree with you, but there is no reports of any collecting,

any stuff. Just because something is extremely dirty, that is not the trademark of hoarding.

SCHACHER: It is a lot of animals.

PINSKY: Well, let`s look at hoarding.

SCHACHER: It just that they are -- And, it may be common in the area to have animals.

PINSKY: Let me look at it. Put up on the screen some of the things associated with hoarding. Now, there is certainly -- you know, there can

be a cluttered living space is one thing. No one can deny that is what these guys were dealing with. And, these are around the periphery of this

-- what do we call this, this diagram are the different disorder associated.

When you see it, Judi, it is obsessed OCD. It is actually a hoarding disorder. There is autistic spectrum, other neurologic disorders, organic

brain syndrome, substances, psychosis of any source whether it is bipolar or depressive and of course depression where people cannot get out of bed

and cannot really clean their space up. All of these things can be associated with severely cluttered living spaces and that is a euphemism

for what I would say, Judi, they found in this particular household. JUDI HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That is right. And, on that slide

that you just showed, Dr. Drew, neuro-cognitive disorder is on it. That is the one I was thinking about for these two people. Because do we really

know what their intellectual functioning is and do we know what their executive function us, their ability to plan, sequence, carry out tasks?

If those issues were at play then you can see why they may have let their children live like this and not even really known how bad it was for these

children.

PINSKY: And, have exceeded their capacity to manage anything more.

HO: Yes. That is right.

PINSKY: In other words, they were over their head with having a bunch of kids around, a bunch of animals around. So, you know, Leeann, I know you

are always worried that we are making excuses. We are just trying to understand.

TWEEDEN: Well, I get. But, I mean were the kids not in school. I mean the woman is 22. At first, I was not sure if she was the mother of some of

the children. She could not have been mother of all of the children --

PINSKY: Some. Some.

SCHACHER: Some.

TWEEDEN: -- She would have started like at 10 years old.

PINSKY: Right. Some.

TWEEDEN: I mean, come on. She is not. But, I mean these people -- they probably have low I.Q. But, I mean you have a bathtub, you have six

children. You have to give your kids baths. I mean you are living like basically on a farm and they have a bathtub that they cannot even use. Did

these kids get even washed at all?

PINSKY: Sam.

SCHACHER: I do not think they did, Leeann. It is so sad. But, Dr. Drew, again, regardless, these are unfit parents.

TWEEDEN: Yes.

SCHACHER: And, it really pisses me off. There are so many individuals out there who are longing to be parents, but they cannot because they are

infertile. They are having trouble conceiving and they are popping out babies left and right.

PINSKY: Well, yes. Too many kids. Too many kids. We said this last night in the story of the woman that was putting her kids up on Craig`s list,

remember that? Come on, everybody. You got to have all the kids --

SCHACHER: A different story, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: No. But, the point is you cannot take care of them. So, please, if you cannot take care of them, put on a condom or something.

SCHACHER: She did not know she was going to be homeless.

PINSKY: Judi, am I wrong here?

HO: No. No. You know, I am an advocate of having tests for parents if you can be a parent. But, you know, with these parents here -- OK, they

have too many children in the household. They cannot even control them. We know that there are other risk factors when you have this many children

and you are living in a kind of a low income sort of situation.

You are not going to give them any attention. You are not going to be able to meet all their needs. These children are going to be very disturbed

unless they get some help. We all know that. Now, these parents, though, they did not know better. I really do not think they actually knew better

to handle this.

PINSKY: They probably feel remorseful about it but now it is brought to their attention. But, I am with Leeann, why did not they know? Why could

not they see this?

TWEEDEN: Thank you.

PINSKY: And, again, I gave you example of disorders associated with people not seeing this sort of thing. We have to move on because this next story

I am dying to get to you guys. Please watch your screens. This is the most dangerous social media trend I have ever seen. I cannot imagine

anything worse.

Alcohol on the body and then let`s just light ourselves on fire. It is fantastic. We have actually gotten to this point now. It is like -- How

do you make yourself famous? Well, let`s see. We can jump off a building. We can light ourselves on fire. All for social media attention. All for

clicks. All for likes. You have got to be kidding me. What is next? We are going to get into it, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Unbearable, yes, basically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW (voice-over): This 15-year-old says he did not know what to expect when he poured rubbing alcohol on his chest and lit it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Literally, after it got put out, it was already blistering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: He says he got the idea from Facebook after seeing videos of something called "The Fire Challenge".

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: He is amazed Sam, that he is blistering. He is lucky that his skin have not sloughed off or did not burn down into the muscle, which is what

can happen with this sort of thing.

SCHACHER: Yes. That is what I would expect. I mean even as a teenager, Dr. Drew, you could not have paid me to do something like that. I did some

pretty dumb things. It is mind boggling.

PINSKY: Well, your dumb actions is a different show. But, it is now is the most dangerous trend on the internet I have seen. Teens, putting alcohol

on their body and then setting themselves on fire for -- you tell me. It is called the fire challenge.

It landed the 15-year-old you just saw in the hospital with second degree burns. I say thank God it was only second degree burns because you could

had it right off through the soft tissue. And, we did a quick YouTube search. All these videos are from YouTube we are showing you today. Came

across tons of them. And, I got a warning. This stuff -- This is disturbing and do not try this. Do not try this! Let`s take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Get into the water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHACHER: Oh my gosh.

PINSKY: All right, joining our panel for the first time, Kelvin Washington, Radio Host 99.1 KGGI and Radio Disney, Sirius XM Host. Erica and Leeann

still with us. First, let`s go back to Bill Lloyd. Bill, help people understand what I am talking about when I worry about these through and

through burns. What happens when you set your skin on fire with alcohol?

DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: Well, it is important to know first of all that the skin does not conduct heat very well. So, in this

case these victims actually are better off than you would have thought. Heat does not transmit to the skin very well. What they are using is a

highly volatile fluid.

And, when it vaporizes, that is the fire. So, now you have a layer of super heated steam between the fire and the skin and that is what cooks

the superficial skin layers and that is why they have the blistering.

In order for it to be a deeper entry you have to have more fuel and have to remain in contact. Did you notice his underpants got coated with the

alcohol and you heard him screaming, "Get them off. Get them off." Because the fuel was still there and yes continuing to burn down deep.

PINSKY: And, that is where you get the deeper horrible burns. Erica, are people doing this just to be famous, to gets clicks, to get likes, to be

sort of seen on social media?

AMERICA: No. That is such a great point Dr. Drew. I mean at first, you see this and you are like, "Is this dumb and dumber?" Like, "Why would

somebody do this?" But, then you look a little closer and you think about the brain, which I want to ask you, what is the teenage brain like at that

time is combined with somebody who probably has low self esteem and is very attracted to exactly what you said, getting the likes.

I mean there is reports of a video like this going up and getting 100,000 likes in one day. So, this is really dangerous. And, something we need to

teach our kids with social media starting from literally babies with iPads at this point that we cannot put things on -- that this is real life. You

know, you light yourself on fire, you are going to be on fire. And, it is not just something that is going to get you more popular. So, I think it

is parenting needs to come in as well as I think there needs to be a class in like elementary school about the internet, how to use the internet.

PINSKY: About judgment, about being a reasonable person. Put that tweet back up that was alongside Erica, basically instructing these people to go

out and go to a beer -- spend time with a burn victim. Pain management group, you do not want that. You really do not. Kelvin, what are your

thoughts?

KELVIN WASHINGTON, RADIO PERSONALITY: That was a great tweet that Melanie put up there. You know, Dr. Drew, I took this to the barbershop today. I

knew I would be -- and in the barber shop, I told the fellows I am going to be on the Dr. Drew show today. They love your show by the way. And, I

told them thinking I was enlightening them about a new thing. Here is a new trend, kids are setting themselves on fire.

And, what I found out was I was behind, everyone else already knew about this. We started passing videos around, "Oh, look at this. Did you see

the one where he fell? He fell out of the tab. Oh, look at this one. He fell. He caught his underwear on fire." So, I found out that these things

actually catch on like wildfire pun intended. So this is something that it catches on. You start seeing other videos where people are smacking other

people with milk and it is just these things that these kids repeat over and over that they see.

PINSKY: Kelvin, what was the general sort of attitude, other than the disbelief and the sort of I am sure you are laughing in one hand and then

in disbelief on the other. What were the people saying at the barbershop?

WASHINGTON: I am glad you asked. So, here is if consensus, Dr. Drew. They basically laugh at it, show each other. Show the guys whose hair they

are cutting and then they could move on with their lives because this is not air reality.

PINSKY: Right.

WASHINGTON: And, like we said here, the reality is you are burning your skin, potentially burning your reputation. Maybe there is a job or college

that will not let you in or jobs you will not get.

PINSKY: Interesting. I did not even think about that.

WASHINGTON: These kids -- because, they do not think about the consequences, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

WASHINGTON: They do things because, "Hey! I got 200 friends on followers or Twitter or friends on Instagram or Facebook. If I do this, I will get

100,000 views, I will get 10,000 new followers." So, these kids do not equate consequences to stupidity in these accidents.

PINSKY: That is right. Leeann, I think Erica asked about the brain. I want to -- before I get into that, perhaps across the break, I want to get

your thoughts.

TWEEDEN: Right now?

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: Sorry. I have no sympathy for these guys. Hello? I have an 11- month-old boy and one of the first thing that you even teach him when he can think for himself words, right? Hot. No, do not touch. Stove. I mean

--

PINSKY: Fire, bad.

TWEEDEN: Right, exactly.

PINSKY: But, Leeann --

TWEEDEN: So, I have no sympathy.

PINSKY: I am going to visit you in 14 years and when you get the male brain going --

TWEEDEN: I would hope that I would parent him better than that, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: I am going to tell you something that male brain is something to behold.

TWEEDEN: I am sure. But, I think if parents stay on it, they are going to do better. Let me tell you this. You know, one of my best friends was a

staff sergeant in the U.S. Army who was burned from head to toe, 98 percent of this body serving his country. You want to know what burned victims are

like, those boys should go visit the people who are our real heroes.

PINSKY: All right, everybody, hold it together. We have got a lot more to talk about. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The latest bizarre video trend is going viral. Watch as this teen douses himself in alcohol. Here he is actually

lighting himself on fire then struggling in pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That video from YouTube. Back with Sam, Kelvin, Erica, Leeann and Dr. Bill Lloyd. Teens lighting themselves on fire then posted the video

online. Dr. Lloyd, you wanted to make one last point here.

DR. LLOYD: The word crazed, which is what this fire challenge is, is just this close to the word crazy and that serious problems can happen from

this. And, Drew, there is other challenges as well, eating challenges, drinking challenges. So, all parents have to be aware of what is on the

web and what their kids are watching. WE have to extinguish this problem.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Sam, what is the --

SCHACHER: The neck nominate was one of the challenges.

PINSKY: Neck nominate, remember that?

SCHACHER: Yes. That is when you try outdo the other person. There is the chugging of the milk. There is the cinnamon challenge. And, here is the

thing, Dr. Drew. If teens do stupid things, particularly males doing these jackass stunts, but then as Dr. Bill Lloyd just said, you throw social

media into the mix and all of the sudden it becomes turbocharged because there is the online peer pressure. There is the temptation of it going

viral. They may be seeking validation through the likes and the comments and it can be very, very dangerous.

PINSKY: Leeann.

TWEEDEN: But, Dr. Drew. There is one thing here. All of those other challenges, if they choke on the cinnamon or they puke or they choke on the

milk or drink too much alcohol, that is on them.

PINSKY: Yes.

TWEEDEN: But, you know, when you are setting yourself on fire, they could set their apartment building, their home on fire and actually hurt other

people around them. And, I do not get -- you asked it earlier. I do not think these guys could douse themselves in rubbing alcohol and set

themselves on fire if nobody was going to see.

PINSKY: Of course.

TWEEDEN: It is a sick mentality. It is stupid and they know they are going to get hurt.

PINSKY: Well, hold on. Erica, I will let you comment but Leeann I cannot wait to visit you until your son is 16.

TWEEDEN: I cannot wait for you too, either.

PINSKY: I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Hang on second, Kelvin. I want to get Erica and then Kelvin.

AMERICA: Yes. I was just saying I really agree with Leeann, how she was saying she is teaching her baby from the very beginning about these things.

PINSKY: All right ladies.

AMERICA: I think parenting really comes in to play here.

PINSKY: I hope so.

AMERICA: And, if you do not -- I mean in some of these videos, there were family present while they were lighting people on fire. They were laughing

along with it. So, there was something along in the family system.

PINSKY: All right. I will tell you what -- Give me Kelvin. Kelvin, I know you are the other male in the family here. Kelvin.

WASHINGTON: Dr. Drew, you are right. I am going to stand up for us males here.

PINSKY: Well, hold on for a second, Kelvin. You were the most recent young male.

SCHACHER: Where is the brain?

PINSKY: So I got it. I got it, Sam, thank you. Now, here is what happens to all teenagers, this part of the brain, the frontal lobe, which is

responsible for our reasoning, our executive functioning, our predicting consequences. It literally shuts down for remodelling for about eight

years or so, and in the male it shuts down until they are may be a little about 25. Kelvin, do you know what I am talking about?

WASHINGTON: I do, unfortunately.

PINSKY: All right. And, then the other thing is that the male is this whole system gets flooded with testosterone, which turns your lovely boy

into a stinky lump of flesh who sits on the couch playing video games and grunting. Kelvin, am I wrong? Am I overstating that?

WASHINGTON: Well, first of all, Dr. Drew, it is not that you are over stating. I thought we were going to keep that between me and you, just

keep that with us guys. You cannot be telling all of the secrets.

PINSKY: The other thing, which is that people speculated that males try to harm themselves or do jackass type stunts to show their genetic

superiority. They can with stand all of these things and I think that is where some of the fire challenges come from.

SCHACHER: Yes, but then Dr. Drew what you are saying is every single teenage boy would be setting themselves on fire and that is not true.

PINSKY: Well, every single teenage boy -- they are not setting themselves on fire but they are doing crazy things with their skateboard --

SCHACHER: That is normal. Setting yourself on fire is not normal.

PINSKY: Another part of the brain -- Dr. Lloyd, back me up on this. This part of the brain, right in here is firing off and determining what they

prefer?

DR. LLOYD: Well, during that time of life, of course, they see themselves as invincible and they do not visualize the consequences.

WASHINGTON: Do they not have a mom, though?

TWEEDEN: Thank you. Exactly.

WASHINGTON: My mother, would never ever in her life -- this is what happened in the Washington household growing up. If she came in the

bathroom and I was on fire, she would give me one cup of water. Flush it on my chest. Give me some cocoa butter and say rub yourself down. I am

not calling a doctor. I am not taking you to the ambulance. I am not calling a news station, because you are not going to make me look crazy as

a mom like I did not raise you right. That is what my mother would do.

PINSKY: Leeann, I want you to take some notes. I think that was a perfect, perfect way to manage -- interesting --

TWEEDEN: Yes. Sure.

WASHINGTON: Leeann, I think you are in the right road. You will be fine.

TWEEDEN: I will invite you. Dr. Drew, I will note you in 16 years. I cannot wait for you to see our son.

PINSKY: No doubt. Dr. Lloyd, last thought.

DR. LLOYD: All right. They do it because there is a payoff. There is a payoff, whether it is internet fame or perceived popularity.

PINSKY: Yes.

DR. LLOYD: As long as there is a payoff they are going to keep doing these stupid things. Shut it down. Shut it down.

PINSKY: Got to go. We are going to talk next about a man -- well a woman, a man and a leash. What do all these things -- there you see it right

there. We are talking about that right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Sam and I are back. A woman went out with her boyfriend seemingly to walk a dog or something but the animal seemed to be missing most of its

coat which got a lot of attention. We will check this out. The man was the one walking naked almost on all fours and on a leash.

SCHACHER: What?

PINSKY: Yes. Witnesses called authorities who were told by the couple that they were having a, quote, "Kinky sexual relationship," unquote. They are

going to face probably some indecent exposure charges. Samantha, what do you say?

SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh. There is so much that I want to get into with you about this, Dr. Drew. So, can we discuss in the after show?

PINSKY: Let`s do this. Let`s bring some of our panelists back. We will have a lengthy after show. We get into that particular picture.

SCHACHER: There is a lot.

PINSKY: What it means and what these people are up to. Thank you. All right. Now, listen, if you are a fan of this show, Sam and I will be in

Atlanta next week with some of the guests you are accustomed to seeing here. You can be part of a studio audience program. We are going to do

that in Atlanta. That is next week. If you message us on Facebook -- if you want tickets, go ahead message us on our Facebook site. We will give

you tickets and we will meet you in person. It will be fun. Do not you think?

SCHACHER: How fun. Yes. I want all of the Dr. Drew HLN fans to please be there.

PINSKY: We have a Sharknado tweet, everybody. Take a look at this. Congratulations to Benjie Bronk from the Howard Stern Show for being a key

player on that. What to watch? "Sharknado2thesecondone or DrDrewHLN???" I hope you watch us and not Sharknado 2. "FORENSIC FILES" is next.

END