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CNN NEWSROOM
U.S. Airstrikes in Iraq; ISIS Takes over Fallujah; Israel/Hamas Fighting Escalates.
Aired August 8, 2014 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
The airstrike in Iraq came hours after President Obama addressed the country, laying out his reasoning for authorizing military action there. In his remarks last night, he said the U.S. must do whatever is necessary to protect Americans there and said the United States cannot turn a blind eye to prevent a potential act of -- his word -- "genocide."
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Meanwhile, ISIS forces below have called for the systematic destruction of the entire Yazidi people, which would constitute genocide. So these innocent families are faced with a horrible choice, descend the mountain and be slaughtered or stay and slowly die of thirst and hunger.
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BALDWIN: Let's bring in our political panel here today. We have "Crossfire" co-host, Newt Gingrich, former speaker of the House, Republican; and, Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist.
Welcome to both of you.
(CROSSTALK)
Newt Gingrich, first off, you know, we heard the president last night laying out his plan. You heard him say the U.S. cannot turn a blind eye but promised, by no means, no boots on the ground. You have now Senators McCain and Graham saying the president is not going far enough, that the U.S. should take the fight to the Islamic State. Do you agree?
NEWT GINGRICH, CNN CO-HOST, CROSSFIRE & FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, I think that you have to recognize there's a problem across the whole region, from Boko Haram to what's really Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq with ISIS. And it's got to be a strategy that can be explained to the American people and can be sustained. I think that means you've got to get Egypt involved, you may have to get Jordan involved. We're not going to put ground troops in. The country wouldn't stand for it. So we had better figure out not just how do you stop them, but how do you defeat and destroy ISIS? This is a terrible group actively willing to commit genocide, waging war on Christians and others, and we need to be prepared to find a strategy for defeating them.
BALDWIN: You're saying keep the pedal on the gas and also get the neighboring countries involved, as well?
GINGRICH: I mean, design a strategy. It's not about, more or less, Americans. It's about what's the strategy from Nigeria all the way across the region to defeat this kind of movement.
BALDWIN: The next question, Maria, is the why now. Because we have been talking about ISIS for the better part of half of this year. And I'm wondering if this timing, and the president getting involved or the U.S. getting involved now, doesn't that open the president up to criticism? Here he is willing to step in as Iraqi Christians and other religious minorities are being persecuted. But before, wasn't willing to do so when it was Muslims killing Muslims.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, I'll say, Brooke, that the president wakes up in the morning and that opens him up for criticism. I think this is exactly the right time. The president, back in June, when we were hearing about the movement, said he would be ready and willing to use military force if any massive populations were in danger of genocide and if American interests or American workers were in danger. That is exactly what is happening now. As the president said to the American people, there are tens of thousands of Christians and other minority populations. Religious minority populations who are on the brink of genocide if we don't do anything --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: -- as well as our American lives who are in danger.
BALDWIN: What about the word "genocide"? The slaughtering of people? I think of Syria, Iraq. Why use it now?
CARDONA: The reason now is -- and the president was very clear about this -- we actually have the unique capability to stop this at this moment because of where we are and the kind of history we have had with Iraq. And so, in terms of deciding when and where, the president's been very clear that we can't and shouldn't intervene even though our hearts want to in every single place in the globe where there is a crisis. But we can and should intervene in very specific places when the circumstances are right and we can prevent a genocide, and we have a unique military and civilian and with our allies, very unique capability to do so, and as well as a mandate. The Iraqi government has asked us for our help and to intercede. And that's why this is the moment that the president chose to do so.
BALDWIN: But, Newt, here's what we don't know. We don't know what the thirst level, if you will, from ISIS is, now that the U.S. is providing these -- sending in, you know, striking ISIL specifically. So as far as retaliation goes, is that worrying? GINGRICH: Sure. Of course it does. And I think the idea that we're going to stop them is wrong. You're either going to destroy this group or they're going to be there. You can't stop them. They'll just --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: How do you destroy them?
GINGRICH: I think you've got to find an alliance that includes Turkey and Egypt and others, and you've got to go in there with a very explicit understanding that American air power, American intelligence, to some extent American aid, can help as part of a coalition. But you need to actively put that together. This is a group that now has -- the State Department itself has said last week this is the most dangerous accumulation of power and territory by any terrorist group in history. And they're just going to get bigger the longer they survive.
CARDONA: But, Brooke, let me say this. I think Newt's goal is one that we should all pursue and it's one that the global community wants. But here's the issue that we all need to understand. Military intervention on behalf of the United States has never been and will never be the solution. The solution lies in a political and diverse and inclusive government on behalf of the Iraqi people, along with our support and our allies' support. That is happening.
GINGRICH: No.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: We definitely need to keep our eye on this and make sure we are there to support those efforts and militarily when we can do what --
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BALDWIN: I understand. We heard Josh Earnest say at the White House -- and underscoring your point -- the need of an inclusive government in Iraq.
CARDONA: Exactly.
GINGRICH: But, Brooke --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Newt is saying we need a coalition. Not just the U.S., but about the other --
(CROSSTALK)
GINGRICH: Brooke?
BALDWIN: Go ahead, Newt, and then we have to go. GINGRICH: Brooke, this is nonsense. The president is describing a
genocidal group who want to wipe out everybody who doesn't convert to Islam on their terms. How are you going to have an inclusive government that has ISIS as part of it? You have to defeat them. You can't possibly include them in an Iraqi government.
BALDWIN: Newt Gingrich --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: We have to go --
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(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: I don't think it is by any sense of the imagination. But Newt is staying on this.
Newt, you're doing a Facebook Q&A session on Iraq at 3:30 today?
GINGRICH: 3:30.
BALDWIN: If you have a question for Newt Gingrich, you can ask him, via Facebook. Go to facebook.com/NewtGingrich.
Newt and Maria, thank you both.
CARDONA: Thanks, Brooke.
GINGRICH: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thousands of Americans served in Iraq to try to force to stabilize the region. What do the men of our military think of the airstrikes today, of this plight of the people, tens of thousands. Coming up, we'll talk to a man who served five tours as a Marine in Iraq and Afghanistan. His thoughts coming up here on CNN.
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BALDWIN: Back to our breaking news here on CNN. ISIS captured its first city in Iraq a little more than eight months ago, taking control of Fallujah, just west of Baghdad. You remember Fallujah is the scene of the bloodiest battle of the U.S. war with Iraq. American, British and Iraqi troops entered Fallujah 10 years ago and fought hard to root out insurgents and take control of that city. Fallujah is back in the hands of the insurgents, this time, under the black flag of ISIS.
And Elliot Ackerman fought as a U.S. Marine in the furious battle to retake Fallujah. He's now contributor to "The Daily Beast" and "New Republic," and author of the book "Green on Blue." He's on the phone with me.
Elliot, welcome.
ELLIOT ACKERMAN, CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY BEAST, NEW REPUBLIC & AUTHOR (voice-over): Thanks so much for having me.
BALDWIN: Let's just begin with the news with the U.S. airstrikes. And, of course, this could be the beginning of additional airstrikes. The president said last night that he will quote, unquote, "not allow the United States to be dragged into another fight in Iraq." But you have seen what ISIS has done, what they're capable of. Where do you see this going?
ACKERMAN: You know, I've heard some sentiments expressed on your show what the U.S. really needs is a broader strategy to not only address ISIS but also the spread of militant Islam in the region. That seems about right to me. You know, airstrikes are a tool, but they're not necessarily a strategy.
BALDWIN: So what is?
ACKERMAN: Well, you know, it's obviously a difficult question. I think it's probably something that's going to need to be regional. It's going to be having some serious talks with partners in the region. Folks like the Turks, the Egyptians, as well. You know, I live in Istanbul, and Turkey has a border that not only straddles Iraq but also Syria. A threat that has as much to do with the current conflict in Syria as it does with Iraq. But the idea we would launch a series of airstrikes over weeks and months in Iraq right now and that would force ISIS to disband, you know, I think is erroneous. And so much as, you know, the insurgents that I fought 10 years ago were basically members of the same group. You know, before it was the Islamic State, it was ISIS, and before that, it was the Islamic State of Iraq, which is who the Americans, we fought for eight years in Iraq. So this has been a long time coming and a strategy to negate it is going to have to be a complex one.
BALDWIN: Let's talk a little bit about your time there. You know, just reading your piece today, we know, as we mentioned, you served these five tours of duty as a Marine in Iraq and Afghanistan. And you wrote that certain streets in Iraq are never far from your mind. Can you tell me about the two bracelets you wear, Elliot?
ACKERMAN: Sure. I mean, I mentioned in the piece, what I referred to there was a street called Highway 10, which bisected Fallujah, and I have a very good friend who was killed on Highway 10. He was shot by a sniper in 2004, ten years ago in November. And he was killed not only saving my life but the life of a group of Marines I was with. So I wear a bracelet with his name on it. But, you know, it's not only his name, represents the names of a lot of friends of mine who were killed over many, many years fighting against groups like is. And, you know, the other bracelet I wear, and what I mentioned in the piece, was a bracelet with some plastic heart charms that my daughter made for me. And the point being that the one bracelet doesn't exist without the other. I mean, if my friend, Dan Malcolm, hadn't done some of the things he'd done, I would have never been able to be a father. You know, frequently, especially in the last few months, you know, when these events occur, a lot of folks will return to the Iraq War veterans and ask, do you feel like it was all a waste? What you did in Iraq?
BALDWIN: What do you tell them?
ACKERMAN: I don't feel like it was a waste -- I don't feel like it was a waste. I feel like, I was over there and a lot of us were over there for the same reason other guys have always fought wars. When you're in the experience, you're fighting for the guys on your left and your right. It sounds cliche to say, but it's true. And so the political events unfolding right now, they don't negate what people did for each other. It doesn't negate what Dan Malcolm did for me, and doesn't negate what, you know, what countless other servicemembers did for each other.
But it's definitely disheartening to see. And, I hope, as a country we're able to rise up and create a strategy that can counter what's going on here because it's -- you know, I live in the region. It's dispiriting to see.
BALDWIN: Elliot Ackerman, all the way from Istanbul in Turkey. Thank you so much for calling in. And thank you, truly for your service, those five tours both in Iraq and Afghanistan. We appreciate it.
ACKERMAN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up, in Gaza, hopes for a truce are dashed, and now rockets are once again flying. Can another cease-fire be brokered before more lives are lost? We have reporters in Jerusalem and in Gaza. They will join us next.
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BALDWIN: Want to pivot now from what's happening in Iraq to what's happening between ISIS -- and what's happening between Hamas and Israel. Let's get you caught up on that story.
Let's bring in Jake Tapper in Jerusalem.
Because we've been watching, Jake Tapper, that 72-hour cease-fire ended today. The fighting quickly resumed. You're talking to your sources. Are they encouraged? Are they hopeful? Will this get worked out? Or will more blood be spilled?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Well, more blood is being spilled, obviously, Brooke. We have word that six Palestinians have been killed today. Two Israelis have been injured by Palestinian rockets. And six Palestinians injured by Israeli defense forces in various capacities.
The question right now is whether there'll be a secession of fire. Maybe there doesn't have to be an agreement, but the Israelis have said, they are not going to go back to the cease-fire talks in Cairo as long as they are under fire.
The other big question is, how big is the Palestinian demand going to be within the cease-fire talks? Hamas saying they were going to let the cease-fire expire because the demands were not being met. They want an entire lifting of the blockade as soon as possible. I think there's probably room for some sort of compromise in opening the border crossings in Egypt and Israel. And then maybe there could be progress there. But the idea that the Israelis are going to allow a sea port immediately just seems like a nonstarter, based on what I've been told -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: All right, Jake Tapper.
I believe we have Martin Savidge in Gaza City.
Martin, you with me?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am, Brooke, yeah, right here.
BALDWIN: Fighting has returned.
SAVIDGE: It has. I mean, it's really so sad and tragic for both sides, of course, because it was the 72-hour cease-fire. The way it's been the last three nights, very different. Now, of course, everybody's hunkered down, the lights are turned off. Jets roaring overhead. The thump of explosions coming from the airstrikes quite significant. In fact, I would say stronger than what we saw in the previous war go round. And it has been continuing throughout the day. Now, so has the rocket fire going out of Gaza. We saw a burst of rockets just as the sun was going down and you see them streaking off in the direction of Israel. So it seems that both sides once again are digging in militarily.
But this time, what seems different is that Israel seems to be relying less on artillery and tank fire. There has been some of that. But more on the airstrikes. And when these strikes hit, they are the loud that you get that is very noticeable when they occur. So that could be one of the reasons why the death toll -- and I hate to say it's down, because it's still terrible. But you have a relatively low number compared to, say, the previous cycle. But we're also very close to nearly 1900 Palestinians killed in this ongoing conflict. And, of course, there have also been dozens of Israelis killed, as well. It's tragic that this cease-fire couldn't hold.
BALDWIN: Martin Savidge, thank you, in Gaza City.
And Jake Tapper, we'll be watching you for the hour on "The Lead," 4:00 p.m. eastern here on CNN.
Appreciate that.
But coming up, we have to get back to Iraq, because as ISIS, as these terrorists continue to gain ground in Iraq, there's one question that people are asking: Could this terror group launch a strike on Western targets? And what about any kind of retaliation to these airstrikes in and of themselves?
And then there's this. This massive hydroelectric dam in Iraq, holding back millions of gallons of water, reportedly is now under the full control of ISIS. How could they use this in a strategy in retaliation in their arsenal?
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