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Emergency U.N. Meeting on Ukraine "Invasion"; Meeting at White House on How to Confront ISIS; Samantha Powers Speaks at Security Council; Hillary Clinton Comments on Michael Brown Shooting; New Development in Alleged Audio of Brown Shooting.

Aired August 28, 2014 - 14:30   ET



BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We're about 90 minutes away from a significant meeting at the White House. The topic, what to do about ISIS, specifically as it pertains to Syria. President Obama will be meeting with his national security team and Vice President Joe Biden at 4:00 Eastern.

Let me back up. The U.S. started bombing ISIS in Iraq earlier this month. Now, President Obama is considering different plans on the table, including expanding airstrikes to target ISIS in Syria.

When you read the reports out of "The Daily Beast" today, that details the president wants a plan to confront ISIS in Syria as soon as possible. But guidance from the White House is that no one should expect any big decisions today. But also, Congress returns from its August vacation next week, and you can bet members of Congress will want a piece of this debate. Senator Rand Paul, of Kentucky, warning in the "Wall Street Journal," another piece from him, that U.S. support for the rebels in Syria helped ISIS, and calling America's policy on the Middle East, quote, unquote, "unhinged, flailing about to see who acts next without little though to the consequences."

On Sunday, Senator Paul went after former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, calling her a war hawk.


SEN. RAND PAUL, (R), KENTUCKY: And in a general election, were I to run, there's going to be a lot of Independents and even some Democrats who say, you know what, we are tired of the war. We're worried Hillary Clinton will get us involved in another Middle Eastern war because she's so gung-ho. If you want to see a transformation election in our country, let Democrats put forward a war hawk like Hillary Clinton, and you'll see a transformation like you've never seen.


Let's talk about this with Ryan Lizza, a CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker." Ryan Lizza, welcome.


BALDWIN: I'm doing all right.

Let's talk about two people who a lot of folks are looking at carefully because we could be talking presidential candidates in 2016. You have Rand Paul saying the U.S. should not go into these places, which is at odds with his Republican base. You have Hillary Clinton, we've reported she has said the U.S. should have armed Syria rebels, which would be at odds with her liberal base. Flash forward, in the ether of 2016, you have these presidential debates, they will be at odds at his or her party.

LIZZA: I think so. Although, Rand Paul, he's placing a bet here that the Republican Party, the base of the Republican Party, Brooke, has changed on this issue. Remember, when he ran for the Senate in 2010, he ran in a Republican primary, and his opponent tried to do the same thing to him, tried to argue that Rand Paul was out of step with the Republican Party on Iraq at that time, that Rand Paul was against with war in Iraq. Guess what? Rand Paul beat that guy. He showed there was at least tolerance in the Republican base for a less- interventionist foreign policy. If you look at polling, where the Republican Party is right now, they are moving closer to Rand Paul. He's setting up a very fascinating debate, obviously. Politically, he wants this to be a Hillary versus Rand debate because --

BALDWIN: Of course.

LIZZA: -- that helps him.

BALDWIN: But did you think -- just to go back to the sound byte -- did you ever think you would hear a southern Republican calling Hillary Clinton a war hawk?

LIZZA: No. It's absolutely a remarkable moment in our politics, Brooke. He is betting attacking her as too hawkish is the way to beat her. Think about when Hillary Clinton ran in 2008. What did she and her team think her biggest vulnerability was? They thought she would be perceived in a general election as not hawkish, not tough enough on foreign policy. That problem has resolved, perhaps to a fault. She now has a leading Republican attacking her as a being too trigger happy. It's an amazing development.


LIZZA: the question is, how many Republicans -- how much does Rand really speak for the Republican Party? That debate is not settled yet.

BALDWIN: Got to go right now, Ryan.

LIZZA: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ryan Lizza, thank you so much.

Because at this very moment, an emergency meeting at the United Nations, the Security Council, being held on the crisis in Ukraine. You have these Ukrainian troops battling what one army officer called a full-scale invasion of Russian troops fighting beside pro-Russian rebels in southern Ukraine.

CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, joins me.

On this meeting, who called this? What's the basis?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ukraine demanded it and then Lithuania -- you know, how these formalities are obscure are obscure. Lithuania formally called it. We've yet to hear from Ukrainian, Russia or U.S. ambassadors to the U.N.

Already the series of speeches are expressing outrage at Russia's "invasion" of this part of Ukraine, and demanding these forces pull back, and that dialogue should be replaced by these forces.

I have just spoken to Ukraine's top diplomat in Britain. He says he doesn't even know why these Russian forces are there because that's not anywhere near where there is the separatist battle. So he believes there's an ulterior motive for these Russian forces to be there. This happened right after Russian and Ukrainian presidents met.


AMANPOUR: -- to try to figure out a way out. Shaking hands while NATO releases these images of these Russian forces and material being in Ukraine, near the Ukrainian seaport.

BALDWIN: What do make of a point -- I talked to a man who has written a book on Vladimir Putin. He said it seems Putin and Russia is trapped. But he said Poroshenko has trapped himself as well. These two sides are stuck. It seems from both perspectives no way out.

AMANPOUR: There has to be a way out. There cannot be no way out. There has to be a way out. It's only going to be a political way out. The ambassador says there must be a much more united, strong international message to president Putin. Obviously, not boots on the ground or war. But a message of isolation, politically, diplomatically, financially much greater than being imposed.

But to the business about Putin, he created all of this and then backed himself into a corner. He created it with the propaganda in Russia. With what many Ukrainians say is his imperialist ambitions. He finds himself in this position that he is in right now. And for some reason, they don't get out of it. There is obviously the widespread belief in the West that Russia continues to want to destabilize eastern Ukraine so they can control what's going on in the Ukraine and prevent Ukraine from getting on with the business of rebuilding its country, forging strong and productive links with the West, economic links that can put this country out of its economic dependence and stand on its own. The last thing Russia's Putin wants to see is Ukraine standing on its own.

Poroshenko, on the other hand, is a moderate that wants a diplomatic way out. He's presented a cease-fire proposal. He wants to talk to Putin. But he faces extreme nationalist forces in his own country who wants to see him take the battle to Russia. So, yes, he is in a very tricky position.

BALDWIN: Let's go to the United Nations. As we're speaking, Samantha Powers, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, is speaking at this emergency meeting. Let's listen live.


Mr. President, representatives on this council, this is our 24th session to try to reign in Russia's aggressive acts in Ukraine. Every single one of those sessions has sent a straightforward, unified message: Russia, stop this conflict. Russia is not listening. We said it when Russia flagrantly invaded Crimea and after the shocking downing of Malaysian Flight 17 which took the lives of innocent men, women, and children and infants from 11 countries. And we say it today as Russia's soldiers, tanks, air defense and artillery support and fight alongside separatists as they open a new front in a crisis manufactured in and fueled by Russia. But Russia is not listening. Instead of listening, instead of heeding the demands of the international community and the rules of the international order, at every step, Russia has come before this council to say everything except the truth. It has manipulated, it has obfuscated and out-right lied.

In the last 48 hours, Russia's actions have spoken volumes. On August 26th, this past Tuesday, after meeting with president Poroshenko in Mincan (ph), Belarus, he spoke of the need to, quote, "end bloodshed as soon as possible," end quote. Yet the same day, satellite imagery show Russian combat units, combat units, southeast of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine. That same day in Luhansk, they detained regular Russian army personnel from the Ninth Brigade. In response, Russia claimed the soldiers had wondered into Ukrainian territory by mistake. This supposedly in a time of conflict along one of the most carefully watched borders in the world. The day after those talks, Russia fired rockets from inside Russia at Ukrainian positions in Novoesosk (ph) and attacked with two columns of Russian armored vehicles and tanks. Russian armored vehicles and multiple rocket launchers are positioned on the outskirts of that town as we speak.

Russia's force along the border is the largest it has been since it began redeploying forces there in late May. It includes significant numbers of combat aircraft and helicopters. Russian unmanned aircraft routinely cross into Ukrainian air space. Other Russian deployments into Ukrainian territory include advanced artillery and air defense systems not found in the Ukrainian inventory. These artillery systems have shelled Ukrainian positions outside Luhansk city in conjunction with the recent separatist offensives.

One of the leaders Russia has armed and backed said only, the 3,000 or 4,000 Russian soldiers have joined their cause. He was quick to clarify that these soldiers were on vacation. The Russian soldier that chooses to fight for Ukraine on his summer break is still a Russian soldier. The military vehicle he drives there is not his personal car.

Meanwhile, in Russia, family members of Russian soldiers are holding funerals for their loved ones who have been killed in the fighting in Ukraine. They are demanding answers for how they were killed. Journalists that try to cover these funerals are harassed and threatened by armed men. According to the Russian government, the soldiers were never there. They were never in Crimea.

BALDWIN: We have been dipping in to this emergency meeting, the emergency Security Council, Samantha Powers, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. And she is saying, over and over, explaining all these different offenses from Putin and Moscow and the troops and continuously saying Russia isn't listening.

Back to Christiane Amanpour's point, in the end, there has to be a way out. The solution must be political. The question whether there is a solution. No one quite knows yet. As many as 1,000 Russian troops are now fighting in Ukraine according to one official.

Just into CNN, critics have attacked Hillary Clinton for staying silent on the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, but moments ago, she made some news. She talked about the death of Michael Brown and the police response. We will play that sound for you next.


BALDWIN: We have news from Hillary Clinton for the first time making comments about the shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, Michael Brown, in Ferguson, Missouri. Keep in mind, she has been attacked for staying silent on this incredibly controversial topic. Let's play her comment.


HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: This summer, the eyes of our country and indeed the world have been focused on one community in the middle of the American heartland, Ferguson, Missouri. Watching the recent funeral for Michael Brown, as a mother, as a human being, my heart just broke for his family, because losing a child is every parent's greatest fear and an unimaginable loss.

But I also grieve for that community and for many like it across our country. Behind the dramatic, terrible pictures on television, are deep challenges that will be with them and with us long after the cameras move on. This is what happens when the bonds of trust and respect that hold any community together fray. Nobody wants to see our streets look like a war zone, not in America. We are better than that.

We saw our country's true character in the community leaders that came out to protest peacefully and worked to restrain violence. The young people who insisted on having their voices heard and in the many decent and respectful law enforcement officers who showed what quality law enforcement looks like. Men and women who serve and protect their communities with courage and professionalism, who inspire trust, rather than fear. We need more of that, because we can do better.

We can't ignore the inequities that persist in our justice system that undermine our most deeply held values of fairness and equality. Imagine what he with would feel and what we would do if white drivers were three times as likely to be searched by police during a traffic stop as black drivers. Instead of the other way around; if white offenders received prison sentences 10 percent longer than black offenders for the same crimes; if a third of all white men, just look at this room and take one-third, went to prison during their lifetime. Imagine that. That is the reality in the lives of so many of our fellow Americans and so many of the communities in which they live.

I applaud President Obama for sending the attorney general to Ferguson and demanding a thorough and speedy investigation, to find out what happened, to see that justice is done, to help this community begin healing itself. We should all add our voices to those that have come together in recent days to work for peace, justice and reconciliation in Ferguson, and beyond, to stand against violence and for the values that we cherish. We can do better.

We can work to rebuild the bonds of trust from the ground up. It starts within families and communities. It was 51 years ago today that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr called us to live out true meaning of our creed, to make the dream real for all Americans. That mission is as fiercely urgent today as when he stood on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in the hot August sun all those years ago.

So we have a lot of work to do together. At Nexenta, you say, better living for a better world. At the Clinton Foundation, we say, we're all in this together. If you put those together, it comes out to a pretty good road map for the future. We need all of you, your energy and your efforts, your innovation, your building, your creating to help us achieve that better world.

Thank you all for having me here with you today.



BALDWIN: Wow, Hillary Clinton. That was definitely not just an aside or a quick mention. She clearly had put some thought into it. Even evoking the late Dr. King, speaking about what happened in Ferguson, Missouri, talking about as a mother and a human being, grieving for the parents for a loss of a son and talking about the loss of trust, the bonds of trust frayed between community and police. There are many wonderful members of law enforcement out there in this country and applauding the president for sending, Eric Holder, our attorney general, to go there and seek justice and have this federal investigation. That's new from Hillary Clinton.

But let's stay on Ferguson. As we've been playing for you, this alleged audio of the shooting from two and a half weeks ago. According to experts -- we will play it for you just to remind you. According to experts, you hear 10 shots in this audio. CNN has not been able to authenticate this. Just to remind you, here it is. (BEGIN AUDIO FEED:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are so fine.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could I forget?


BALDWIN: Now, a new development today on that piece of audio.

Don Lemon is back from Ferguson, joining me on that development.

I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on Hillary Clinton. But let's get to the news. What have you learned about the audio?

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have learned that the video messaging service, called Glide, they have authenticated the time stamp of that message. Initially, we weren't able to independently verify it. Now, this company, Glide, has authenticated it. The time they have said is 12:02:14, central on that Saturday, which is August 9th. CNN has been reporting it happened shortly after noon, around 12:01, 12:02. That is in line with the time the shooting occurred. The messaging service authenticating the time stamp, which leads more validity that the audio of this shooting is possibly the audio of Michael Brown being shot. The man who has spoken to the FBI lives very close to where the shooting occurred. All of this information going forward now leads to the validity of this audio tape that we first put on the air on CNN tonight on Monday night when we got it.

BALDWIN: So you have that layer coming out, sort of further authenticating the audio. But then, you just had Hillary Clinton talking. You hear her talking. And a lot of people say --


BALDWIN: - it is not a matter of if but when she runs.

Yeah, go ahead.

LEMON: Brooke, I will get to Hillary Clinton, but I also want to say -- just so if you can also -- Glide is also now responding to this. They have put some information up on their website. They are saying -- you may have seen it on CNN and other news programs -- "The Glide Mobile app is being mentioned in the current news cycle surrounding Michael Brown with the video message created having surfaced as critical evidence. While the tragedy is never good news, our heart goes out to the family."

But they are saying that this, indeed, was their technology. They are glad the gentleman turned it over. They said the man lives nearby. So, again, they are reconfirming on their website, 12:02 p.m. central on Saturday, August 9th. They say, "We commend this Glide user for turning their Glide video message over to the FBI messengers as possible evidence in the ongoing investigation."

BALDWIN: OK. I'm up against a break. I want to talk more about the Hillary Clinton comments on what happened in Ferguson --

LEMON: Yeah.

BALDWIN: -- a couple of weeks ago. We will do that later in the show.

Don Lemon, thanks so much for the latest bit of news on the shooting.

Quick break. Back in just a moment.