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Interview with Reps. Ed Royce and Eliot Engel; Another American Journalist Beheaded by ISIS; Top House Foreign Affairs Members Comment on Beheading; Sotloff Beheaded by Same Terrorist as Foley; White House Reacts to Beheading; State Department Addresses Beheading; Britain's David Haines Still Held by ISIS; Does Beheading Add Pressure to Obama, Congress?

Aired September 2, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let me get quick reaction from the two top members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the chairman, Ed Royce, the ranking member, Eliot Engel, they're both joining us from Jerusalem.

Mr. Chairman, what's your reaction, a second American now beheaded by ISIS.

REP. ED ROYCE, (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: You know, our hearts go out to the family, to Steven's family. At the same time, we remember the thousands of Christians and other religious minorities who have also been decapitated or crucified, massacred by ISIS, as they've rolled across Syria, rolled across Iraq, all the way up to Kurdistan. It is chilling that this type of madness is now part of their operation as they take cities across the area.

REP. ELIOT ENGEL, (D-N.Y.), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Well, this is just awful, Wolf --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Go ahead, Congressman.

ENGEL: -- just awful. This is exactly the reason why we have to go after ISIS, why we cannot just let them wreak havoc there. They are killers. They are brutal. The executioner is a coward because he wears a cover from head to toe, so you can't see what his face looks like. He's really just a coward. And these are the types of people. It's why ISIS is a threat to the entire world. And why we just simply cannot ignore them. We've got to defeat them.

BLITZER: Very quickly to both of you, Congressman Engel first, you want the president of the United States to authorize air strikes against ISIS targets in Syria?

ENGEL: Yes, I do. I, for years, have been calling to aid the Free Syria Army. I even put in legislation about a year and a half ago to do that. And I think it was a mistake not to do it. But I think that ISIS is obviously across the border, into Syria, into Iraq, and they really have to be defeated. I would still hope, though, that we could try to aid the Free Syria Army, because they're the only people in Syria -- Assad's regime is no good. They're the only people in Syria who want to see democracy to that poor beleaguered country.

BLITZER: Chairman Royce, are you on the same page as Congressman Engel?

ROYCE: I am. Target them and target the terrorist training camps where they're bringing these thousand of fighters from around the world, putting them through training over a period of weeks to teach them how to conduct terrorist activities. Those camps and the munitions should be targeted as well.

BLITZER: The chairman and the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressmen, to both of you, thanks very much for joining us.

I want to continue the breaking news coverage. CNN has now confirmed that the American freelance journalist, Steven Sotloff, 31 years old, has been beheaded by ISIS. Apparently, the same individual who beheaded James Foley, another American freelance journalist, in recent days.

Christiane Amanpour is joining us from New York right now.

Christiane, this is going to put a lot more pressure on the United States to take direct action, I suspect, against ISIS in Syria, but give me your thoughts.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: You're right, because the most pressure that's been put on the president so far has been since the execution of James Foley a few -- a couple of weeks ago. And of course, this is terribly sad, because the mother of Steven Sotloff, Shirley Sotloff, just six days ago, as you remember, issued that public plea, videotape plea, to al Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, to spare her son. She went to great lengths to have read up on the Koran, to have understood Islam, to, in their own way, shame these people to understand they are not acting in accordance with Islam. She was desperate and she begged in desperation for them to spare her son and they haven't.

I haven't seen the video but listening to Karl Penhaul's description, it does beg the question as to when this execution, this second beheading may have taken place. Did it take place at the same time at that of James Foley? Are they only just announcing it now? It does beg the question, since the aspects to the video, according to Karl, almost identical to the one we all saw about a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, indeed, it puts a lot of pressure on President Obama right now, who is off to Europe. He's going to Estonia. He's going to Wales obviously for this NATO summit, which is going to be the most consequential NATO summit, according to many analysts and experts, since the Cold War. This is not only to deal with this unstoppable apparent onslaught by President Putin in Ukraine threatening Europe, but also in desperate search of some kind of strategy to confront ISIS. Because even his own top military commanders say you cannot just have a few strikes in Iraq against this group. It was born in Syria, it is still there, with a safe haven in Syria, mostly in the Raukef Province. If it is not confronted in Syria, it will regroup, replenish and keep going. As you know, it now has a massive swath of territory, a huge size of territory across the Syria/Iraq border, which it has decided to obliterate. It calls itself the Islamic State. It is the first time a terrorist network has actually had what amounts to a state in order to raise armies, to threaten not only the people in the region but the blowback because of jihadis going from Europe and the United States to threaten those in Europe and the United States as well.

BLITZER: It's a huge, huge development as far as the U.S. is concerned. A second American now beheaded by ISIS.

Moments ago, the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, was asked about this latest video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I've not seen the reports, Stacy. That may have just happened in the last few minutes while I've been standing up here. This is something that the administration has obviously been watching very carefully since this threat against Mr. Sotloff's life was originally made a few weeks ago.

Our thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Sotloff and Mr. Sotloff's family and those who worked with him. The United States, as you know, has dedicated significant time and resources to try and rescue Mr. Sotloff.

I'm not in a position to confirm the authenticity of that video or the reports at this point, obviously, since I just walked out here. But this is -- if there's a video that has been released, it is something that will be analyzed very carefully by the U.S. government and our intelligence officials to determine its authenticity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'm sure they're taking it very, very close look at the video right now. As we remember when the video of James Foley's execution, beheading, was released, it took a while for the U.S. government to assess that, eventual did confirm it was authentic.

Christiane, you recall, as all of us do, Shirley Sotloff, the mother of Steven Sotloff, in that al Arabiya video. She said, "As a mother, I ask you to be merciful and not punish my son for matters he has no control over. Steven has no control over the U.S. government. He is an innocent journalist."

Those words, very poignant. And our hearts go out to the Sotloff family. Clearly, had no impact on ISIS.

AMANPOUR: Well, it wouldn't, would it? They are who they are. The United Nations has put out a devastating and chilling report as to what exactly this group is. Amnesty International overnight has done too. Basically cataloging the horrors they perpetuate against women, children, men, foreigners as well, particularly in this case against Americans as they seek to put pressure on Obama to stop the air strikes that have already been carried out in Iraq.

Now, the -- Amnesty has just put out, as I said, a horrifying catalog of its crimes, calling what it's done, turned Iraq and Syria into a blood-soaked field. So these are people who are the not just populated by fanatics, these religious crazies, but they also have a much more sinister and much more ominous component. That is, a very bureaucratic hierarchy. Those who have dealt with researching ISIS and done their best to figure out who exactly they are see they are not all religious fanatics. They are people who have come from, to a large extent, at least in the hierarchy, Saddam Hussein's former Baath Party, former military commanders. There is a very clear structure of command. And talking about, you know, those in charge of ISIS finances, ISIS propaganda, ISIS logistics, ISIS battlefield strategy. All of that is very, very clear. These are not just insurgents as ISIS's predecessor, AQI, al Qaeda in Iraq, was during the bad days of 2004, until the surge under President Bush and General Petraeus defeated them back in 2008. These are now people who operate in a much more organized fashion. Certainly taking advantage of their ability to harness social media, so to put forward their propaganda, to perpetuate such violence and brutality that they terrify people on the ground. Even if you try to peel away people on the ground from them, they are obviously threatened with beheading, execution, any number of brutal acts if they don't follow ISIS and is' rules and regulations. So this is what's being -- what's confronting us as a civilization right now.

And it is more than just putting down an insurgency. It is an army in the Middle East, in the most vital part of that region. And it threatens, as I said, not just the region, but all of us. This is why the administration is seeking a strategy. And President Obama has suffered a lot of criticism for what he said a few days ago, which is that we have no strategy yet. And people have talked a lot about what that portends and what that actually means. And even Senator Dianne Feinstein, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said -- and I'll quote -- "Over this weekend, I've learned one thing about this president, he is very cautious, and maybe in this instance, too cautious."

So, what seems to be going on is that the administration needs, as the Congressman just told you, to latch on to some kind of viable alternative inside Syria, which, right now, for better or for worse, is the Free Syrian Army and the moderate opposition, and do, with them, perhaps what they should have done two and three years ago.

BLITZER: Christiane, I want you to stand by.

Paul Cruickshank, our terrorism expert, is here with me in Washington.

ISIS, they think these kinds of videotapes, the beheading of the American journalists, is going to help in their effort, right? It's hard for us to understand their thinking, but you've studied this.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Yeah, they feel it's going to help them maybe to deter the United States from further action. It's also a message to their supporters. They're saying to them, we're fighting back. This kind of video really energizes them as a real recruiting tool for them -- Wolf?

BLITZER: The act of beheading is specific and it's important for these ISIS terrorists as opposed to just shooting someone, executing them with a machine gun or whatever. They do it deliberately, beheading, because?

CRUICKSHANK: They do it deliberately for maximum propaganda effect. A way to energize their supporters.

BLITZER: If they think -- Jim Sciutto is still with us -- if they think this is going to deter the United States from taking action, I think it could potentially have exactly the opposite effect.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm not so sure they think it will deter the U.S. I think, for them, a direct confrontation with the U.S. frankly serves their interest. The beheadings, like the air strikes, frankly, have raised ISIS's profile. I think that this beheading solidifies what this has become, a very direct and very bloody confrontation between ISIS and the U.S. which, as Paul notes, that confrontation with the U.S. not only raises their profile, it makes them a powerful magnet for recruits. If you're standing up to the U.S., as they perceive themselves to be, that, frankly, strengthens them. I think they can, from their perspective, say, as long as you're just hitting us from the air, that's the best you have, we're going to survive, if you're just dropping a bomb on us occasionally here and there.

BLITZER: You saw, in Karl Penhaul's report from London -- he's actually seen the video. I haven't seen it yet. But he says that, just at the end of James Foley's beheading, the first American journalist beheaded by ISIS, with Steven Sotloff, saying, you better stop what you're doing because we've got this other guy. Now there's a third individual standing there, potentially getting ready to be beheaded as well. You heard Karl Penhaul report that.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. We're not identifying yet the nationality of that other hostage. But clearly they're willing to do this as long as it sort of takes from their point of view. But there's also concern there could be other retaliation from ISIS, notably against U.S. interests in the region. Think about Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, those kinds of countries, where there's significant U.S. interests, where ISIS has a significant presence and reach -- Wolf?

BLITZER: This is an ominous development.

I think Anna Coren is joining us. She's inside northern Iraq, Erbil, right now.

Anna, you're following what's going on. You're on the front lines. ISIS is getting closer and closer to where you are. Is has moved from Syria into Iraq, has made major gains. I think they've -- one report I saw today said they control a territory with their terrorist army the size of the U.S. state of Indiana right now, which is a huge swath of land, as you well know. How worried are the folks where you are, the Iraqis, the Kurds, the others, that ISIS has got some major momentum going? ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, people here are extremely

concerned about the advance that ISIS has made. And it was a lightning advance. Certainly over the past few months until those U.S. air strikes began. It was interesting in this beheading video of Steven Sotloff, the executioner who we do believe is the same executioner from the James Foley video, mentioned the bombings around Mosul Dam.

We have spent a lot of time up in Mosul Dam over the last couple of weeks. This is a very important piece of infrastructure that was seized back by the Peshmerga, the Kurdish forces, early last week. Is took it at the beginning of the month. They did so very easily. Just walked in. As the Iraqis just walked out of the facility and out of Mosul city itself back in June. But this sustained air campaign around Mosul Dam is what the executioner references. And he says, Wolf, that it's because of the bombings continuing in Iraq, specifically Mosul Dam, that is the reason for Steven Sotloff's beheading. And he goes on to say -- I'll read you the quote -- "Just as your missiles continue to strike our people, our knife will continue to strike the necks of your people." Obviously referring to that third person that they are currently holding.

But this Mosul Dam area, Wolf, it's made up of little hamlets, little towns and villages over vast plains. The Tigris River runs through it. The Peshmerga forces have been trying extremely hard to push ISIS out of these areas. But they met a great deal of resistance. We were up there over the weekend. We thought the Peshmerga had made much more headway. We were really surprised that is not the case. We saw the U.S. air strikes happening once we were up there. But we then got reports a bit later on because we weren't allowed up to the front line. They were very adamant about that, despite the fact we'd been told we would be allowed. There was a hideous attack in which ISIS militants filled a truck up with explosives and drove it into the front line of the Peshmerga, killing many of those Kurdish soldiers. This is what we're dealing with in that particular area. That is what that executioner is also referencing in the video -- Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, stand by, Anna Coren in Erbil.

I want to go back to Karl Penhaul in London, looking at this videotape.

At the end of the videotape, we see a picture of the executioner threatening a third person. We know they beheaded two American journalists now and we're showing that picture to our viewers. Are we identifying, Karl, this individual right now who's being threatened potentially for a third execution?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Wolf, that is the implication from this video, especially if you take it in context with what happened in the last video in which James Foley appeared to be executed, and that is when ISIS showed Sotloff and said he will be next. That is what the bulk of this video, two minutes, 46 seconds, incidentally, does show. The man shown at the end of it, ISIS themselves, in their propaganda video, put up a name tag there identifying him as David Cawthorne Haines. Underneath in parenthesis, they say he is British. We're trying to get details about who he is, why he may have been in Syria.

You'll appreciate that ISIS is holding a number of hostages, many of them believed to be international. But in some cases, there is a media blackout, cooperation or request to the media perhaps that they don't publish too many details about captivity in order not to harm efforts to get them out of harm's way. So we don't know a lot about David Cawthorne Haines. ISIS does have us believe that he is British and is next in line for execution if the U.S. doesn't carry out what the black-clad executioner tells President Obama to do, and that, in very short term, says, "Obama, back off and leave us alone."

Also, incidentally, one would have to question why ISIS are trying to show a possible British hostage right now. This, at a time when the British parliament has just come back from summer vacation and where Prime Minister Cameron is talking about toughening up anti-terrorism measures against radicalism in Britain, but also talking about how Britain could and may start to back the U.S. campaign against ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

Also, to another point that Christiane rightly brought up, because these are propaganda videos, we have to sift through the information, look to see what may be propaganda, see what is true, see what we can ascertain from these videos. Christiane said, may possibly have did this execution, take place at the same time as the James Foley execution. We'll what I can tell you about that, having looked at the video, what I can tell you, both executions appear to take place in a desert area or a very dry area with a few tufts of grass here and there. But the James Foley execution appeared to take place on some elevated piece of ground. This execution appears to take place more in a hollow in the desert. It is also very windy, whereas in the James Foley execution video, there was a lot less wind noise, only a very slight breeze could be heard on that video from time to time. So it does possibly indicate that this was a different location. We don't know how far apart. It could be just a few hundred yards apart, possibly also a different day. The day Steven Sotloff seems to have been executed was much windier day -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And, Karl, I want to be precise on the executioner. We don't know for sure the person who beheaded James Foley, the first American journalist, the executioner is the same who beheaded Steven Sotloff, although you point out, there are similarities. They are both left-handed and speak with a London, British accent. They seem to be the same height. Is that right?

PENHAUL: Yeah. We have to go right back to the basics. Although the British ambassador said that he believed British intelligence services were very close to identifying James Foley's executioner and possibly the fact that he was British, even that has still not been confirmed. Certainly, on the James Foley execution video, the black-clad man appeared to be speaking in a southern English accent on this video, too. They are dressed in much the same way, clad in black with a black ski mask. They appear to be of the same height, weight, and stature. Both were holding a very similar knife, a combat knife with a serrated knife, and they were both waving that in their left hands and were also wearing a weapon, a pistol or machine pistol, underneath their left armpit as well. Very close similarities between the two executioners on both videos and also in the Steven Sotloff video that we've been reviewing. It's a video of two minutes and 45 seconds. Also on that, the man speaking again in a very distinctive southern English accent. He wants us to believe that it is the same man. When we've talked to linguistic experts, they say it sounds like a British accent, a multicultural British accent -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Hold on a moment, because we've gone through the entire video that's been released by ISIS and we're going to show our viewers here in the United States and around the world this excerpt to get a sense of what it shows. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ISIS MEMBER: Because of your insistence of continuing your bombings in Iraq, despite our serious warnings, you, Obama, have yet again, through your actions, killed another American citizen. So just as your missiles continue to strike our people, our knife will continue to strike the necks of your people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. I want to go quickly to the State Department. Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, has been addressing this issue.

JEN PSAKI, SPOKESWOMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: I'm not going to rule options on or off the table. The president has the prerogative to make decisions. You're familiar with the fact that there are a range of contingency options. That's always the case. But I'm not going to get ahead of where we are. We have been clear that the geography is not going to limit our options but there's no new decisions to announce.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In relation to the strikes, do we have any kind of figure or data or guide on how much ISIS's capabilities have been degraded by these strikes?

PSAKI: I don't have any statics in that regard.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you been in touch with Mrs. Sotloff's family this morning?

PSAKI: These reports just came out. I'd have to check on that and see.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I don't know if you saw in the video but they are also threatening to kill a British citizen as well who they say they are holding. Do you have any information about him or --

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: I don't have any additional information to provide.

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: If that changes over the course of the afternoon or evening, we're happy to provide it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And have you been in contact -- I know it's just happening, but have you already been in contact with your counterparts in London on this?

PSAKI: Again, this happened in the last -- the reports came out publicly in the last 30 minutes or so. So I would have to check and see if there's been contact. I'm certain that one of the first calls would be to the U.K., which wouldn't be a surprise.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What is the legal authority under which President Obama has launched the more than 100 air strikes that you've just referenced?

PSAKI: In Iraq? Well, the Iraqi government has invited the United States in to help them address --

BLITZER: All right. So there's Jen Psaki reacting to the horrible news, a second American journalist, that journalist, Steven Sotloff, has been beheaded.

Paul, real quickly, they say they are holding a third person, a British person identified as David Haines. Do we know anything about this individual?

CRUICKSHANK: We don't know anything about this individual but it's very, very worrying, Wolf, given to what has happened to the other two hostages.

BLITZER: Bob Baer, the former CIA operative, is joining us, a CNN intelligence analyst.

Bob, give us your quick reaction. This is awful news. Our hearts go out to the Sotloff family. But it seems that ISIS is being emboldened right now. Not only did they behead Steven Sotloff but they say they are going to continue on with a British citizen. What's going on here?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE ANALYST (voice-over): I think they are trying to characterize themselves war against the West and they will keep going. They will go international if they have to. If they continue to have losses in Iraq, as they have in the last couple of days, they will come back at us. They are looking to become an international movement, a caliphate, and they'll hit us heard. And I still believe they can hit us in the United States, and whether there is specific planning or not, that's where we're headed.

BLITZER: When you say that they are planning on hitting the United States, give us a little bit more analysis, why you think that's a credible threat. They seem to be -- they have their hands full of Syria and Iraq right now.

BAER: They have their hands full but they are gaining international stature. There were a bunch of arrests in Saudi Arabia. You have parts of the Taliban in Afghanistan, are swearing allegiance to this so-called caliphate. They are going international. They are taking the easy victims right now but their long-term plans are to cover the entire Islamic world. And I don't see how as we get more engaged with this war in Iraq, that they won't come back at us. And I've been assured by authorities here that ISIS does have cells in the United States. They don't know what they are planning but this is from tactical intelligence, and I trust these people, you know. Is it five years off? I can't tell you. I can tell you where this conflict is headed.

BLITZER: It's a dangerous situation.

Jim Sciutto, we've heard from the U.S. officials. They suspect there are hundreds of Europeans who have volunteered to go fight with ISIS and there may be as many as 100 Americans who have actually gone to Syria to fight with ISIS as well.

SCIUTTO: That's right. 100 to various extremist groups in Syria, perhaps a dozen with ISIS. The fact is they don't know the hard numbers for sure. It's something they are getting a handle on.

And to Bob's point, I agree with him. A direct confrontation with the U.S. frankly serves ISIS's interests here. It raises their profile. As intimidating as American military power is, this has raised their profile.

BLITZER: And, Paul, you've studied this. You believe that when they post a video, that this executioner beheading an American journalist, that helps their recruitment of other Westerners. It's hard for us to accept that, but that's what they believe.

CRUICKSHANK: It absolutely does. I've spoken to people, former jihadis who were energized by this. But one word of caution. ISIS has never gotten directly involved in plotting against the West. They may decide not to do that for some time because, if they do, then they invite a much greater United States response in the region. They have a big project over there building their caliphate. They may decide not to go the full hog --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Bob, do you agree, Bob -- we don't have Bob on anymore.

Jim Sciutto, do you agree this puts greater pressure on the president of the United States to take direct action?

SCIUTTO: No question. We saw the pressure they put on James Foley in terms of focusing the media's attention, Congress' attention on this issue, clearly putting pressure, you have another one, as well as another potential for other Westerners to be killed down the line. Clearly, ISIS telegraphing that to some extent.

BLITZER: And it comes at a time just before the president meets with all of the NATO allies. They are going to talk about Ukraine, obviously, but now they have to come up with some sort of NATO strategy in dealing with this threat.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. And a regional strategy as well. The president said that last week that he's sending John Kerry to the Middle East to get other partners in the Middle East, not just NATO members, but the neighbors of ISIS, the Saudi Arabias, the Turkeys, et cetera, to work together on this threat. And there's no better way to focus their attention, but also the West's attention than the potential of this threat coming home, whether of Europe or the U.S. or to European and Western interests in the region.

BLITZER: Very quickly, you see other Sunni Arab nations, like Saudi Arabia, getting more directly involved in fighting ISIS?

CRUICKSHANK: They have a real interest in this. The Saudis are really worried about ISIS. ISIS leaders want to go on to Saudi Arabia as well -- Wolf?

BLITZER: The question is, is Saudi Arabia going to do something about it?

CRUICKSHANK: That's only going to get more involved, perhaps with funding.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: What about the Air Force going after, attacking ISIS targets in Iraq or Syria?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that would be quick something. But that's the government's decision

SCIUTTO: The question is, who puts the troops on ground? Because everyone agrees --

BLITZER: Right.

SCIUTTO: -- from the air, you can't solve this problem. So who is going to make that sacrifice, take that risk? Very open question.

BLITZER: We're going to continue the breaking news coverage. A second American freelance journalist beheaded by ISIS.

I'll be back at 5:00 p.m., another special edition of "The Situation Room."

In the meantime, our special coverage here in the United States continues with Brooke Baldwin.