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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Plan for Battling ISIS; Interview with Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota; Ferguson Protests Heat Up

Aired September 10, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: From we don't have a strategy to here's the strategy. What will President Obama say this evening?

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The politics lead. Prime-time president, Mr. Obama finally sharing with the American people his plan to degrade destroy ISIS. We have got the advanced word on what he's going to say in just a few hours.

The national lead. It's been a month since a white police officer fatally gunned down Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old in Ferguson, Missouri. Demonstrators are launching a potentially dangerous protest this hour to shut down a major highway there.

And the sports lead. It's not necessarily a lifetime ban after Ray Rice was caught on camera punching the woman who is now his wife. He could return to the NFL, says commissioner Roger Goodell, who is provoking outrage in his own right.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD.

We of course will begin with the politics lead today. We are approaching a critical moment in the presidency of Barack Obama, in which he will ask the American people to sign on to what is essentially another war. At 9:00 p.m. Eastern this evening on the eve of the 13th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, the president's face will be on televisions throughout the nation and he will be laying out his strategy, we are told, to -- quote -- "degrade and ultimately destroy" ISIS, those jihadist terrorists who have seized pieces of Iraq and Syria through a campaign of horror.

The president must decide whether to extend the airstrikes on ISIS targets in Iraq which have been going on for a month now. He must also decide how to approach ISIS in neighboring Syria where the U.S. has been so far hands-off.

The president does not necessarily need to convince Americans to step up the fight against ISIS. Our recent polling shows wide support for that. What he does need to do is convince the American people that his strategy is the right one, the correct one, because two-thirds of the people we polled do not think he has got a clear plan in mind.

He may have no one to blame for but himself, of course, after he stated 13 days ago that at the time he didn't have a comprehensive plan for ISIS, especially in Syria. Let's get to White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski right now.

Michelle, how is the president going to characterize the fight against ISIS this evening?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jake.

Yes, it certainly seems like the U.S. is at war with ISIS, right? There's even debate here among members of the White House press over what to call this thing. It is an operation. It doesn't have a name, at least not yet. And even that underscores some of the lack of clarity we have seen in all of this at times.

So, tonight, prime time is the president's chance to spell it all out to the American public and to the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI (voice-over): The U.S. struck ISIS in Iraq today, more than 150 airstrikes so far on a nearly daily basis. And, tonight, the president is prepared to take that fight into Syria, but not necessarily just yet.

He spent his day meeting with his national security team, polling members of Congress and the king of Saudi Arabia. His speech tonight is expected to lay out what exactly is the threat to the U.S., what are the risks, what are the priorities.

He will present his strategy, much of which the White House has already explained with next steps contingent upon building regional and international coalitions. Secretary of State Kerry is in the Middle East today doing that.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: This is a fight that the Iraqi people must win, but it is also a fight that the rest of the world needs to win with them.

KOSINSKI: The president tonight is also expected to talk about proposals moving forward. The White House said in a statement he has the authority he needs to take action against ISIL in accordance with the mission he will lay out in his address, but we now know he has asked Congress for additional authorization for half-a-billion dollars and the authority for the military to equip and train elements of the moderate Syrian opposition.

It was one year ago today that President Obama announced this in prime time.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is in the national security interests of the United States to respond to the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons through a targeted military strike.

KOSINSKI: But then things changed on the ground, there wasn't an appetite in Congress to vote about it, which the president wanted, and there were no airstrikes.

Today, former Vice President Dick Cheney blasted Obama's actions, calling him disengaged.

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President Obama seems willfully blind to one of the key facts about the post- 9/11 security apparatus. It is not self-sustaining. Those programs and policies must be kept strong and current.

KOSINSKI: The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, who agrees with the president's preparation at least with Congress, to equip and train Syrian rebels against ISIS, had this response.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I think they had better be very careful with advice that they take from Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney is more responsible than anyone else for the worst foreign policy decision in the history of the country, the invasion of Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: OK.

So, what we want to see is how much of this Syria peace, these preparations and moving forward will make its way into the speech tonight. There is support, some bipartisan support in Congress for the actions that the president wants it to take, but then there is also concern about how much it's going to cost, what are the details exactly of this plans, so it seems like what everybody is looking for tonight, Jake, is more clarity.

TAPPER: All right, Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about this with Tommy Vietor. He's a former spokesman for the National Security County for the Obama White House. He's now a founding partner for Fenway Strategies, a communication and P.R. agency. Also, S.E. Cupp, co-host of CNN's "CROSSFIRE," of course, and our chief national correspondent, Jim Sciutto.

Tommy, I want to start with you.

Obviously, President Obama has a couple imperatives here. He wants to stop these horrific terrorist devices. He also wants to avoid getting caught up in what occasionally infects the Beltway, this war fever.

If you were advising him, what would you tell him to do? What would the strategy be?

TOMMY VIETOR, FORMER WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY SPOKESMAN: I think what he has to make clear tonight is that the easy part of this will be the military action. The easy part will be our incredibly capable military hitting targets and taking out ISIS members.

The long game is going to be what's hard. It is going to require political developments, governance, a capacity-building operation that is going to last over time. So making that case, explaining how hard this is, how complex this is, is important.

And also I think cleaning up the no-strategy statement, which was a bad sound bite, but I think, you know, tonight's speech will make clear that he does have a strategy and he is going to lay it out.

TAPPER: S.E., obviously, today is about communication. You laid this out in your column, your op-ed in "The Daily News" today. Who does the president need to be talking to tonight?

S.E. CUPP, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Yes, it's ironic. ISIS has done a lot of the dirty work for the president in convincing the American people of its potency, of convincing Congress in for the most part a bipartisan fashion that the president needs to act, and in convincing our international allies that it's time to do something.

So the president doesn't need to go out with sweeping, soaring rhetoric and a call to arms. As Tommy says, he needs to be pretty specific. That doesn't mean telegraphing exactly what we're going to do and when, but he needs to address some of the vague strategies he's outlined in the past.

He wants us to on work more with local governments. Which governments?

TAPPER: Right.

CUPP: We're not interested in nation-building, so there aren't too many great governments in the neighborhood.

What kind of airstrikes are we talking about? Who are we arming? Why does he suddenly trust people with arms that he didn't before? So he needs to get pretty detailed tonight.

TAPPER: The moderate Syrian rebels.

CUPP: Right.

TAPPER: Jim, this is a president who is president no small part because he opposed the war in Iraq, and now he is essentially -- we can call it anything you want. You can talk about no boots on the ground, no combat boots. He is starting another war in Iraq.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: He's calling the nation to war today. And the president not only opposed the war in Iraq, but has been very reluctant to use military action in other cases, including when President Bashar al-Assad used chemical weapons.

So he's got to explain what changed, whether to hawks or to doves, what changed. Why is ISIS a threat today and not just to the U.S., not just a regional threat or a J.V. team? Why will military action will make a difference, military action that in the past he has said this does not have a military solution?

Why indeed do the moderate Syrian rebels today pose the possibility, the potential to be an ally in this fight whereas in the past he's called it a fantasy that arming them in the past would have made a difference? And I think he also has to explain to the American people how long are they in this for as he calls the nation to war? What are the costs going to be? And this is really a conversation that the U.S. as a country never had

before the Iraq invasion. What's the endgame? What are the costs going to be? How many lives are going to lost? And will those lives and will that cost in blood and treasure be justified. That's a case he really has to begin to make tonight.

CUPP: And he keeps talking about the things he will not do. He has to be more specific about how long, how far he's prepared to any, not just how long we need to maybe be there or who we need to arm. How far are you prepared to go? That's what the American people need to get conditioned for. They need to be prepared for that.

TAPPER: Tommy, Jim mentioned this, but it wasn't long ago -- I think it was just a month or so ago that President Obama talked about the idea of arming the moderate Syrians, rebels, as a fairy tale I think was the term he used.

Obviously, in January, he referred to ISIS as J.V. He denied it, but the transcript makes it pretty clear he was talking about ISIS. First of all, what has changed? Was ISIS different then than it is now? Are the rebels so much stronger today than they were a month ago?

VIETOR: Yes, this is why this is so complicated. Right?

When we were talking about arming the moderate opposition, that was against Assad. And I think there's idea that arming was a panacea, and if we had done it from day one, Assad would be gone, good guys would be in power and we'd be in a very different place.

Now we're fighting Assad's enemy. This is a cesspool of a region with a lot of complex alliances. So I think that what has changed is that ISIS has gained territory. They have gained momentum. They have gained equipment.

And that needs to be arrested immediately. And I think what has also changed is the Iraq -- the Iraqis have gotten rid of Maliki. There's a new government. And he said he wouldn't intervene to save Maliki until there was some sort of political combination. That's happened. That's allowed him to move forward, but I also they will need to open the aperture and start hitting targets in Syria and for reasons beyond force protection.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: S.E., I want to ask you because we only have a couple of minutes left, do you think the president -- the president obviously feels like he doesn't need to get a war authorization, but do you think he should?

Jack Kingston, the Republican congressman from Georgia, had a very interesting quote in "The New York Times" yesterday saying that there should be a vote. And he said -- quote -- "A lot of people would like to stay on the sideline and say just bomb the place and tell us about it later. It's an election year. A lot of Democrats don't know how it would play in their party. And Republicans" -- this is a Republican talking of course -- "Republicans don't want to change anything. We like the path we're on now, if we can denounce it if it goes bad and praise it if it goes well and ask him what took him so long."

Wouldn't it -- amazing quote from -- but he's calling for a vote. He's saying, we should sidle up and say where we stand. What do you think?

CUPP: Right.

Yes. Now is not the time for either the president or Congress to be worried about political cover and what happens in 2014 or 2016, when someone has to explain this to their constituents at home. I don't think the president needs congressional authority. I think politically it would be smart for him to ask for it. And Congress cannot shirk their duties right now to go to a vote on this.

TAPPER: Jim, are you expecting the president to say anything tonight about one of the reasons why national security experts are so afraid of ISIS, the idea that they have so many members who have either American passports or European passports who can easily get into the United States?

SCIUTTO: Absolutely.

He has to because this gets at the threat. He has to explain to the American people why ISIS is a threat to U.S. national security. And he also has to clarify the point that there has been some back and forth on. It is a regional threat today or is it a threat to the U.S. homeland today?

You have heard both in effect from U.S. officials. So, he has to explain that in part to let people know how immediate the threat is and why the U.S. has to act now.

TAPPER: Tommy Vietor, S.E. Cupp, Jim Sciutto, thank you. Great conversation. Really appreciate it.

Coming up, she's seen residents of her own state, land of 10,000 lakes, leave their families to join terrorist groups overseas on the direct MSP-to-jihadi-land flight, but will military intervention against ISIS do anything to stop homegrown terrorists right here in the U.S.? I will ask Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar next.

Plus, a very serious Ted Cruz warning about what he calls a dangerous Democratic Senate proposal that could, he says, make "Saturday Night Live" political skits illegal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to continue now with our world lead. Just hours from now, we'll hear the president's plan for taking on what is being called the most vicious, well-funded militant terrorist organization the world has ever seen by some. So what will the plan look like some could this spiral into a new, full-blown war for the United States? Will Congress and the American people stand behind President Obama's strategy?

Let's bring in Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat of Minnesota.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

I'm sure you're in the same situation President Obama is in some ways. You don't want to fall prey to the war fever that infects the Beltway every few years. At the same time, these terrorists from ISIS are horrific and do pose a threat to the region.

What do you want to hear from the president tonight?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, I think this is a great opportunity for the president to lay out a clear, national security strategy for the country to show, why we have to continue and expand these airstrikes into Syria. I know this first hand in my state.

We literally have ISIS recruiting young men in our state and they're doing it mostly over social media, and we've literally had one of them be killed. He went over and he knew what he was doing and he joined a terrorist organization, but we've -- there are also reports that we have others there.

I've met with our law enforcement this weekend. I talked to our U.S. attorney, and they're clearly working with the Somali community. We're proud of our Somali community. We have 80,000 to 100,000 Somalis in Minnesota, half of the Somalis that are in the country, and we've been able to work with them effectively and to go after these cases of suicide bombings with al Shabaab in Somalia, and we've been able to prosecute those cases, nine convictions, 20 indictments so far because the community worked with us.

We're doing the same thing here, but, of course, the best way to stop the recruiting is to stop ISIL.

TAPPER: And, of course, when you were referring to -- there are others, you meant that there are others in Syria and Iraq. You didn't mean that they were in Minnesota or did you?

KLOBUCHAR: No. Clearly, we've heard about them being recruited --

TAPPER: OK.

KLOBUCHAR: -- and going overseas and they're trying to stop them from going overseas, but this can lead to all kinds of concerns for our own homeland security.

That's why I think it's really important that the president lay out that national security as well as the work that he's doing to work with other countries. I thought it was really positive news that the secretary-general of the Arab League asked all 22 countries in the Arab League to provide not just political support for this effort, but military support. We know we can't do this alone and that's what we need to hear tonight as well as what the limits are, this action and why it is necessary. I mean, you're right, Jake. Americans went through a lot. I personally didn't think we should go into Iraq, but because of that, when you have an evil like this, when you have a clear case where we have a terrorist group that is spreading beyond one country, that is beheading innocent journalist --

TAPPER: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: -- and that is raping women, selling them, we have to make a clear case and the president has to do that tonight.

TAPPER: How -- in terms of the military strategy, how long are you willing to commit to Americans fighting in Iraq and potentially Syria? Would you agree to only a short-term operation? Is this something that you would give open-ended support for?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, we're going to hear from the president tonight and we're going to be thoroughly briefed tomorrow, which I think is very important to know the facts as a former prosecutor before you lay out what you think should happen. But I know for one thing, I support this idea that we need to train the moderate Syrian forces. I went to Jordan and Turkey with Senator Gillibrand and Graham and Hoeven over a year ago, we came back, met with the president, made that case, and I think that's the first thing Congress needs to do under Title 10 is to make sure that we are authorizing --

TAPPER: Right.

KLOBUCHAR: -- that provision of equipment, that would be a very concrete thing that we can do that I don't need to be briefed about to know that that is necessary, having been in the area.

TAPPER: Senator, let me ask you about the moderate Syrian rebels. A month ago, President Obama told "The New York Times" about arming the rebels, quote, "With respect to Syria, the notion that arming the rebels would have made a difference has always been a fantasy." That's what President Obama called it just a few weeks ago.

What's changed in the last four weeks that makes arming the moderates in Syria now such a good idea?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, I had thought that this is something we need to look at as well as a no-fly zone over a year ago, but the fact that the president is reconsidering it, and looking at equipment, I think that's something we all want to hear about tonight and something we're going to be briefed on, what the intelligence is that led him to that position.

So, I think that is the number one thing that Congress needs to do. As for a longer action that you're talking about, clearly, the president is not talking about combat troops on the ground, but if this is a lengthy engagement, I think Congress should look at and is going to look at having this come before Congress.

But what we want to do is carefully consider that language. We certainly learned a lesson in Iraq. I support the president doing these airstrikes as soon as possible in Iraq and in Syria, making sure that we are training and giving the equipment to those moderate forces that are in Syria and then moving on from there if this is an expanded conflict, working with our allies and after we get the briefing, to figure out what kind of force beyond the airstrikes if we're going to go for prolonged conflict would be necessary. And yes, I do think that type of prolonged conflict should come to Congress.

TAPPER: All right. Senator Amy Klobuchar, you anticipated my last question. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

KLOBUCHAR: OK, very good. Yes, thanks.

TAPPER: Coming up, a month later, and the anger remains. Protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, fed up over the lack of charges so far in the killing of the unarmed teenager Michael Brown. They tried to close down a major highway. We'll go there live, next.

Plus, Roger Goodell, the NFL commissioner, admitting mistakes, but basically sticking to his story that nobody in the NFL saw the tape of Ray Rice knocking out his then fiancee, now wife. My guest, ahead, a former NFL player -- well, he is not buying it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

You are looking at live pictures right now from Missouri. It's our national lead. It's been more than a month since a white police officer shot and killed unarmed black teen Michael Brown. At this hour, protesters near Ferguson, Missouri, plan to block and shut down an interstate highway and they're calling for the arrest of the officer involved, among other demands.

Last night, residents disrupted a city council meeting and called on members to resign. That meeting had been meant to address their concerns and implement judicial reforms.

Let's bring in CNN's Ted Rowlands in nearby St. Louis, where protesters are starting to gather.

Ted, despite all the talk of healing post-Ferguson, it sounds as though the area is still something of a tinderbox.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Absolutely, Jake, and if you look at this situation that is just developing right now, it has all of the ingredients of more trouble here in Ferguson. You see the police presence here, there are literally hundreds of police officers, state police, local and county police officers, and then a couple of hundred protesters.

As you mentioned, the plan for the protesters was to come down here and try to shut down Interstate 70 which runs just below here. We're basically on an overpass.

On either side, the police have established a perimeter and are not allowing protesters to go past and now, the protesters are coming right up to the edge. They've been instructed that if they get too close to the off ramp they will be arrested. So far, we haven't seen any arrests, but just within the last five minutes, you can feel the anger and the anxiety starting to develop.

So, we'll see what happens in the next few moments and the hours to come, but the plan is to try to get to I-70 and shut this interstate down. The police say there's no way that they are going to let that happen.

TAPPER: Ted, they're protesting among other things the fact that there have been no charges brought yet against officer Darren Wilson. We were told some time ago that the grand jury wouldn't be finished until October.

What's the status so far of that grand jury investigation?

ROWLANDS: Well, the same status has been going on for the last two weeks, Jake, the local county district attorney is presenting evidence to that grand jury. There's also the federal investigation, which is ongoing. We don't expect results from that possibly for months, but we do expect something from the grand jury within the next few weeks and at some point in October.

And that's what the major chants we're hearing here today. These people say they want justice and they want that grand jury to come back with charges against Officer Wilson.

But you can see, Jake, right now it is a very tense situation and the last thing they need here in Ferguson.

TAPPER: All right. Ted Rowlands, thank you so much. We'll stay abreast of that situation.

Coming up, he's suspended indefinitely, but that does not mean necessarily that he's out for good. Why the NFL commissioner will not rule out the chance that Ray Rice could return to the league. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)