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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Former FBI Director to Probe Rice Inquiry; Obama Outlines Plan to Destroy ISIS; Pistorius Not Guilty of Murder; Witness Video in Brown Case.

Aired September 11, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So what are they going to disclose in an investigation?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What's being investigated is what happened with this tape? Was there really someone at the NFL offices who had it and what did they do with it. That's part of the investigation. The league's attitude toward domestic violence as a whole is something I would hope would be investigated. We flashed the NOW statement saying they hope this is just window dressing, which goes to Michaela's point.

I want to show you John Mara's quote. He's the Giants owner who is, quote, "overseeing this investigation along with the Rooney family." I have to say John Mara is a high-character guy. Everybody who has dealt with him thinks very highly of him. He said this encouraging thing. He said, "Many of us were dissatisfied with the original two- game suspensions of Ray Rice. We have all learned a valuable lesson from this episode." Then he goes on to say the next thing, "The notion that the league should have gone around law enforcement to obtain the video was misguided as is the notion that the commissioner's job is now in jeopardy."

The idea he is saying all of these things and he is the one leading the investigation raises some eyebrows. I don't want to say that John Mara is going to be bias he's never shown any indication of that in the past.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: These eyebrows are now raised.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: But you don't want the appearance of impropriety.

CALLAN: All they had to do was ask the lawyer for the tape.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Paul, Rachel, thank you so much.

Another thing to raise eyebrows, the Ravens are playing tonight. Guess who is performing? Rihanna. Enough said.

We'll take a break.

Thanks, guys.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: On this September 11th, 13 years after terrorists changed life in America an arguably the world as we know it, we're talking about a new threat and how to avoid repeating the past so many of us remember so vividly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: President Obama outlines his plans to destroy ISIS, a terror group that some analysts say could be as much a threat to the U.S. as al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria and the broader Middle East including American citizens, personnel and facilities. If left unchecked, these terrorists could pose a growing threat beyond that region, including the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Former Pennsylvania governor, Tom Ridge, became the very first secretary of Homeland Security after September 11th. The position did not even exist 13 years ago.

Secretary, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

You had a chance, like all of us, to listen to the president last night. What do you make of the strategy that he laid out?

TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY & FORMER PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNOR: Well, he is my president, but I reluctantly say that I was very disappointed. I think the president has a broader responsibility to speak more plainly and more completely to the American public.

The notion that ISIS is a threat, it's beyond a threat. They beheaded -- they beheaded two American citizens. I don't think that's a threat. I think it is a longer-term threat to the United States and to Europe. Again, we're dealing with ISIS in isolation of the broader Islamic fundamentalist, terrorist threat, and the president I think fails to recognize it. I think there are too many fiction writers in his inner circle. We've got al Qaeda on the run? No, we don't. ISIS is a J.V. team? No it isn't.

We're not going to have any boots on the ground. I'll go back to ancient history when I was a soldier in Vietnam. We worked with a group of military advisers, we were always in harm's way. The notion that the people we're sending over to Iraq aren't in perilous, hazardous world is wrong. Frankly, the notion that we're going to recruit their supporters, I think that's a good idea and I think it's absolutely essential. I wish he would have spoken about getting the Arab world involved because they have as much at risk as we do. So I'm going to support my president. I'm hopeful that it works. But I do think he should be able to be more straightforward and quit dealing with these incidents in a vacuum. Al Qaeda is stronger. ISIS is there. Hezbollah, Hamas, al Shabaab, it goes on and on and on. It's a global scourge. Let's accept it for what it is and articulate a sustainable approach.

Frankly, Americans since 9/11/2001 have shown their resolve, their commitment. We're better prepared. We're ready to deal with it. Our intelligence committee is working hard. First responders practice every day. From a domestic point of view, when we're playing defense, we're stronger today than we were 13 years ago. From an offensive capability, our military and our approach toward the global discourage of terrorism, frankly, we've gotten weaker over the past five or six years.

PEREIRA: Sir, what is the sustainable approach or the offense you're suggesting? Are you suggesting we do need a U.S. military force on the ground?

RIDGE: Well, listen, you already have one.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Beyond the thousand the 2,000 there are there, the 1,700.

RIDGE: The president is trying hard to say I'm not George Bush. Nobody is accusing him of that. Nobody is accusing the president of that. The reality is -- and the notion it's Yemen and it's Somalia, I think the president is being somewhat disingenuous. This is a group of individuals who have money, manpower, territory and arms.

They're not like al Shabaab. They're not like al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. They're a much more significant force. What I'm saying is the strategy evolves over time. But to suggest that ISIS is just one other little terrorist organization -- I would want to ask the president, are they terrorists or are they criminals? If we capture them on the battlefield, are we going to bring them to Guantanamo? Are we going to decide to give them their Miranda warnings?

I think the president should -- he has the bully pulpit. We don't have to be breathless about this discourage, about this challenge to our interest, not in the United States but around the globe. He really has never articulated the nature of the global threat and began to articulate a global strategy to deal with it. Internally, we're stronger today than we ever were before. I think we're far more vulnerable because I think the threat is greater.

BERMAN: I'm still confused a little bit about what you're saying about the offensive operation in terms of U.S. troops there. Are you saying 1,600 is not enough? What is the right number, do you think?

RIDGE: I think it's a fair question, but let me just be equally candid in my response. It's disingenuous to say that the men and women we're going to send to Iraq are not in harm's way. They're not wearing sneakers. They're probably going to help pre-position air strikes. They may be military advisers.

No commander-in-chief wants to send men and women in harm's way, but don't pretend those military personnel, these brave and women are not going to be caught up in the middle of a violent battle with a violent medieval barbaric organization. It's fiction. They are in harm's way. There are boots on the ground. Do you really think somewhere down the road we may need special operations? We're not talking about a massive invasive force. We're not sending in thousands of Marines or G.I.s.

The whole notion that we can do this cosmetically from the air and rely on the Syrian moderates and the new coalition army that's going to hopefully resurrect itself in Iraq, that may happen. Let's not kid ourselves about where these 1500 men and women are going and how perilous and dangerous their world is.

PEREIRA: I think we fully recognize the fact that any presence there in an adviser role or beyond is putting our people in harm's way. In terms of air strikes, I seem to understand that you think these are -- would be water off the back --

(CROSSTALK)

RIDGE: No, no.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Do you think they're no important?

RIDGE: I think the air strikes are very important. They've been pinpricks. If you're going to do saturation bombing, let's do saturation bombing. I dare say I would imagine that President Bush, President Reagan, President Clinton would have responded immediately after the first American citizen was killed by these barbarians, certainly after the second one was beheaded.

My sense is you have lawyers in the White House worried about Syria is a sovereign state. We could have sent a message. It would not have resolved the problem with ISIS. We would have sent a strong message to ISIS and you don't need congressional approval to do it. You would send a strong message to ISIS, you don't do that to American citizens.

So it's not like we're a threat. It's interesting, we haven't been threatened by them, we've been killed by them. I think the language is a little too tepid to me. I don't want to be breathless about it. I think he should be more straightforward.

He's my president. I want his strategy to succeed. It want him to be more whole some and comprehensive about how we're going to deal with it and the severe nature, not only the threat of ISIS but of Islamic fundamentalism around the world.

BERMAN: Mr. Secretary, we do appreciate your insight here. Thank you so much for being with us, joining us @THISHOUR.

Let me say, it's interesting. You do say you want the president's strategy to succeed that. I believe that. You are a patriot, sir. Also, you spent a lot of time criticizing almost everything he's done up to this point in time.

RIDGE: But what I'm saying, today, what all Americans have done in the United States to demonstrate resolve, to build resiliency, but we're playing defense. Homeland Security was a defensive operation. The tip of the spear is overseas. When you start making analogies that are inappropriate for America. This is not a counterterrorism operation, it's a big deal. When you deal with ISIS in isolation from all the other Islamic fundamentalists out there who threaten our interests, Western interests, anti-American, anti-Semitic, I think you're reducing, kind of mitigated the threat. I think we have to be honest with America. It's global scourge, I'm your president, we're going to start dealing with ISIS.

PEREIRA: We had a guest earlier that suggested some of the work not only needs to be just militarily, but that it needs to be stamping out this ideology. Speak to that.

RIDGE: No question. One of the challenges I think that presidents are going to have, regardless whether Republican or Democrat now and I think in the foreseeable future, is that nothing that the radical extremists do in any way relate to what I truly believe most Muslims want for their life, for their family and for their country. These individuals, these extremists kill more Muslims than non-Muslims. That's why I wish last night the president would have called for Arab countries, those who are also threatened by ISIS to join the coalition.

He's a global leader. A global call to action, global encouragement for those who are threatened to participate. He said he's going to recruit. I hope he and secretary recruit very, very effectively. I'm very hopeful that they get that done because it is a global scourge and requires a global response. Part of that response is reminding the broader Muslim world that everything this barbaric group and al Qaeda does is inconsistent with how you want to live your life with your family in your country. So I think we have to do a better job on that as well.

BERMAN: Secretary of State John Kerry is in there right now leading with Saudi Arabia, with the leaders of many nations in that region right now.

Former Homeland Security Secretary, Governor Tom Ridge, thank you very much for being with us.

(CROSSTALK)

RIDGE: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back to @THISHOUR. In South Africa, it is judgment time in the Oscar Pistorius trial. In a blow to the prosecution, the judge has ruled Pistorius is not guilty of intentionally killing his girlfriend. That takes murder off the table.

BERMAN: Premeditated murder. The judge still has to decide on culpable homicide, which the judge has, in laying out the case, made it seem like she may be leaning that way. Pistorius faces three weapons charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOKOZILE MASIPA, SOUTH AFRICAN JUDGE: The accused, therefore, cannot be found guilty of murder. That, however, is not the end of the matter, as culpable homicide is a competent verdict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: She really did make clear that it was an unlawful act by Oscar Pistorius. She said when he fired into that door. We need to wait until tomorrow to find out --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: It's not like here. The way the case is laid out, the way the verdict is read. It takes such a long time. Remember she was killed Valentine's Day 2013, Reeva Steenkamp, and this has taken all this time. We'll continue watching it.

BERMAN: Stay with CNN tomorrow to find out what that final verdict is. Tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern and pacific, we have a special, so you can see all the key testimony again. It's a "CNN SPOTLIGHT" on Oscar Pistorius.

Turning to a crime story here in the United States. There are new details in the shooting of Michael Brown. CNN has obtained exclusive video taken just minutes after the unarmed teenager was killed by a police officer.

Our Randi Kaye spoke with construction workers who were on the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just after 12:00 noon, Ferguson, Missouri. The men you see in this cell phone video hear gunshots. They are about 50 feet away from Michael Brown and Officer Darren Wilson. The unidentified person recorded this video captured the witnesses' reaction during the final moments of the shooting.

(SHOUTING)

(GUNFIRE)

KAYE: Both men were contractors working in the area. They did not want to be identified. The man at the left in the pink shirt told CNN they heard one gunshot and then about 30 seconds later a second shot. He says he saw Michael Brown staggering and then he says Brown put his hands up and said, OK, OK, OK, OK. The witness told us the cop didn't say "Get on the ground." He just kept shooting. That same witness described the gruesome scene, saying he saw Michael Brown's brains come out of his head. Again reiterating his hands were up.

Watch how he motions on the video.

(SHOUTING)

KAYE: The video, these witnesses say, was taken shortly after the shooting ended. If you look closely, you can see a police officer in the distance beginning to put up crime-scene tape. Both men told us by the time it was over there were three officers on the scene, but only one involved in the shooting.

Another voice is also heard on the tape. The contractor in the green shirt told me, that voice belongs to a man he didn't know who pulled up alongside them yelling this.

(SHOUTING)

KAYE (on camera): That same contractor in green also told me that he saw Michael Brown running away from the police car. He said Brown put his hands up and the officer was chasing him. He also said that Officer Wilson fired another shot at Brown while his back was turned.

(voice-over): The contractor in the pink shirt also shared this, that a second officer, who arrived later to the scene, also drew his weapon. He said, "The one cop was the one who shot him, then I saw the other officer pull a gun out but he didn't shoot." That same worker described how Brown staggered dead after the second shot 20 to 25 feet to the ground explaining, "He was like a walking dead guy."

Keep in mind, these men don't live in Ferguson and don't know the Brown family. But their account does square with what other witnesses have said.

The woman who took cell phone video of Brown's body lying in the street, also told CNN that Brown was shot from behind, just like the contractor in the green shirt says.

PIAGET CRENSHAW, WITNESS: While he was running away from the officer trying to get away he was getting shot at.

KAYE: This witness told Anderson he didn't see Brown's hands up, perhaps because he was running outside to the scene but he did see Brown turn around before being fatally shot.

MICHAEL BRADY, WITNESS: About time I get outside, he's already turned around facing the officer. He's balled up. He has his arms like under his stomach and he was like half way down, like he was going down. And the officer lets out about three or four shots at him.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: It is so interesting to see that. All the lawyers that we've been talking to here on CNN say this is very, very significant.

PEREIRA: Significant.

BERMAN: It was more or less in the moment. It was the reaction of someone on the scene.

PEREIRA: That's the thing. It was an organic response as they're watching it happen, like you can't even have a prejudice about how you're going to react. You just react.

BERMAN: And it was physical. Put his hands in the air. It was the sound you heard also.

PEREIRA: All these testimony and eyewitness accounts makes me wonder how they're going to find a jury that hasn't been influenced by all of this scrutiny and media and conversation and evidence.

BERMAN: Definitely.

Let us know what you think. Tweet us or send us a message on Facebook. What do you make of that video? What do you make of the sound? We want your opinions.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: You can tell by the culottes and tube tops it is fashion week in New York and one model hitting the runway is Kim Kardashian's little sister, Kendall Jenner.

PEREIRA: Tube tops? Kendall wants to be taken seriously in the high fashion world. Check out today's "Fashion: Backstage Pass."

You're terrible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENDALL JENNER, MODEL: Hi, I'm Kendall, K-E-N-D-A-L-L, Jenner, J-E-N- N-E-R. I literally grew up in front of a camera like my entire life, whether it was a big TV camera or like a little like picture camera. When I started I did not know -- I had no idea how this was going to turn out. You just don't know how they're going to react to it. Oh, another reality TV star coming in trying to be something. I don't know. I just wanted -- this is what I want to do. This is like my job. I graduated high school and this is like my career. This is what I want it to be. I really wanted people to take me seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That a girl. A full interview with Kendall Jenner is on our website. Check it out CNN.com/living. Part of our "Fashion: Backstage Pass. Very cool fashion week.

That's it for us @THISHOUR.

I'm Michaela Pereira.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.