Return to Transcripts main page

WOLF

Interview with Sen. John Thune; Interview with Mark Regev; Rob Ford Not Running for Re-Election; Estimates of Possible ISIS Fighters Rise; U.S. Passport Holders Join ISIS; Mother of Slain Journalist Speaks Out; U.S. Enlists Coalition to Fight ISIS; Israel Backs U.S. Airstrikes; Israel Backs Airstrikes; Senators Push NFL; Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar

Aired September 12, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar, in today for Wolf Blitzer. We begin with the latest developments in the plan to dismantle and destroy ISIS. President Obama has chosen retired General John Allen to lead the international effort against the terrorist group. The specifics of his role are still being finalized.

The CIA has dramatically increased its estimate of the number of possible ISIS fighters. The initial estimate was as many as 10,000, now the CIA is saying ISIS can muster between 20,000 and 31,500 fighters.

Also, the United States is conducting surveillance flights over Syria. A U.S. official says it is part of the effort to gather intelligence for possible air strikes.

We want it get more details now on the foreign fighters that are helping swell the ranks of ISIS and other groups in Syria. Brian Todd is following that part of the story. What are you finding, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, a CIA source told CNN more than 15,000 foreign fighters, including about 2,000 westerners, have gone to Syria to fight. The source said they have come from more than 80 countries. Now, of those, according to a U.S. intelligence official, hundreds of them are westerners and westerner -- hundreds of westerners, we should say, are fighting for ISIS, including maybe a dozen or more Americans, Brianna.

So, that's kind of how the breakdown is right now. The 15,000 foreign fighters in Syria is an astounding number as we know that there could be as many as 31,000 fighters in ISISalone. Of those, hundreds are westerners and maybe a dozen or more Americans.

KEILAR: And tell us about this arrest in France. It is really kind of giving us a sense about how ISIS recruits foreign fighters. What have we learned here?

TODD: That's right. You know, the man just handed over to French authorities from Turkey, his name is Morad Fares. The French interior minister calls him a particularly dangerous individual who recruited many young people in France, several of them teenagers from the cities of Toulouse and Strasbourg. Some of those fighters went to ISIS, some went to other groups. Now, analysts say they tend to lure these young men with the ideal of fighting for the cause, the attraction of adventure. They do pay their fighters, according to intelligence officials, but it's not clear, you know, the range of pay and how they -- and how they pay them and what they pay them. A little unclear. We're digging on that a little bit. We're going to have more on this in "THE SITUATION ROOM" tonight at 6:00.

But, you know, they do -- they do pay their way into Syria and some of these areas. They pay for their travel but they also pay them a small salary. But, you know, these -- also, Brianna, we have to say, these recruiting videos you see online from ISIS are a huge recruiting tool for them. You have jihadists in these very stylized, highly produced videos, one of which you're seeing here, just luring people in. You know, come for the -- come fight for the cause. Come for the adventure. Come be a hero. That's -- those are some of the things they lure them with. So, it's a pretty astounding recruiting process.

KEILAR: Yes, it's a terrorist organization with a serious P.R. effort. Brian Todd, thank you so much.

What about those U.S. passport holders, for instance, who have gone to Syria to fight alongside ISIS? What should authorities do to keep them from returning to the U.S. to carry out terrorist attacks? Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota joining us. Now, you're more than one of a dozen senators that is calling for action. What do you want that the administration isn't doing?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: We want to see a plan, Brianna. I think that the thing that concerns a lot of us and should concern a lot of Americans is there are so many westerners involved in this. And as you just heard, the effect of social media and trying to radicalize some of these people, make this a real, attractive magnet, for younger people in particular, to come there.

But the fact that there are Americans and Europeans in the fight with holding passports is a real concern. How do we prevent these people from coming back into the country? They're on no fly lists but there are other ways that they go through, Visa are a way for (ph) countries of getting back in. So, simply, we're just asking secretary of state, John Kerry, and Jeh Johnson, the Secretary of Homeland Security, what's the plan? You know, do you have a plan and what is that for preventing any of these people from coming back into the United States where they might do harm.

KEILAR: I wanted to talk to you about sort of the semantics of some of what we're seeing but also, first, I want to talk to you about the Congressional role here. There are so many people who are saying there should be Congressional authorization here -- an authorization of military action. Republicans run the House. You're a former House member. Why don't they just do it? Why -- it's not exactly a profile encourage if there are people calling for this and yet the House isn't going ahead and actually taking action.

THUNE: I think one of the reasons is it's -- historically, it's been the role of the commander in chief to put forward an authorization for the use of force. That's always been the case. And, yes, Congress could do that on its own. They're going to act on a continuing resolution next week which will provide the authorization to train the troops, the moderate opposition.

But I think, in terms of the broader authorization, the administration says they have the legal authority to do it. They say they welcome Congress in -- you know, doing it themselves. But I, frankly, think it would be advisable for the administration to come to Congress with that request and for Congress to act on it. I think that's the way the process ought to work. But most of us -- I shouldn't say most of us. I, personally, believe that they do have legal authority, based upon the 2001 and 2002 AUFMs.

KEILAR: But a year ago, we heard the president say it would be -- you know, it's stronger if Congress is involved and not just in a consultant role but beyond that, voting on this. To your point, that this isn't the way that it's been done, we heard Speaker Boehner yesterday. He basically said, well, it hasn't been done that way before. I mean, it sounds kind of like a lame excuse, in a way, to say, well, that's not how we've done it before.

THUNE: Well, I think -- and really, frankly, though, I mean, it is. There's one commander in chief and the commander in chief is the person who says, this is what I want to do. This is my objective. He's the one who comes and sells his plan. And, you know, we've gotten sort of conflicting signals about that.

And I think the concern that a lot of Republicans in Congress have is is the president in this to win it? And if he really is, he could come with an authorization for the use of military force, get Congress to vote on it. The last time he proposed doing that, of course, is when he was talking about using force in Syria and then he got pushback from his left and then he kind of backed away from that.

So, I think a lot of us are questioning, right now, whether or not the president, and particularly members of his party, have the resolve to follow through with this.

KEILAR: I want to end on a sound bite that we have of Secretary Kerry. This is how he is describing, in an interview with our Elise Labott, the campaign to destroy ISIS. He says it's not a war. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What we are doing is engaging in a very significant counterterrorism operation. And it's going to go on for some period of time. If somebody wants to think about it as being a war with ISIL, they can do so. But the fact is, it's a major counterterrorism operation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A major counterterrorism operation. Why not call it a war?

THUNE: Well, it is. And I think that they are trying to give comfort to their political base in this country. And I think there are a lot of Democrats who are a little -- you know, are very leery of this and, frankly, most of the calls for the president to come to Congress are coming from Democrats right now. But I think when he says that, it's basically denial of what's happening. We're dropping bombs in a foreign country. We've got 1,700 troops on the ground. This is a war against ISIS. This is a war to destroy an organization that is set upon doing great harm to Americans and to our allies around the world.

KEILAR: Senator Thune, thanks so much for being with us. We really appreciate it.

THUNE: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And up next, building a coalition against ISIS. But is there a role for Israel? We will take a closer look at the options for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

And we have a CNN exclusive. The mother of slain journalist James Foley speaking out for the first time since President Obama spoke to the nation on Wednesday night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: President Obama is getting his anti-ISIS coalition together. In Wednesday night's speech, the president called on Middle East countries to join with the United States, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia are just some of the partners who have signed on. But Israel is not in that group. And joining me now from Jerusalem to talk about this is Mark Regev. He is the spokesman for Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Mark, the prime minister would only say that Israel is playing a part. Is Israel a part of this coalition to defeat ISIS?

MARK REGEV, SPOKESMAN FOR ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Well, there's no doubt whatsoever as to which side Israel is on. My prime minister said publicly yesterday that we fully support, fully support President Obama's call for international action against ISIS. ISIS a threat to all civilized countries, to all responsible actors on the international stage, and we have to defeat ISIS.

KEILAR: What's the hesitation, then, to be ha labeled as part of the coalition?

REGEV: I think there could be some diplomatic considerations about having Israel up front because we want, of course, to have Sunni Arab allies in this. And that's clear. But there's no doubt whatever, Israel is 100 percent in this effort. Some of the help we'll be given will be known publicly, some of it will be remaining secret. We won't talk about everything that we're doing but there should be no doubt that Israel is an active partner in the fight against ISIS and against the other Islamic extremist organizations. I mean, ultimately, these groups want to return humanity to some sort of pre-medieval primitive sort of society where women are considered property, where minority groups are pressed or killed, where there's no such thing as human rights. These are violent terrorists and they have to be defeated.

KEILAR: What type of military role is Israel considering or prepared to take in combatting ISIS in Syria?

REGEV: I think it's best that I don't answer that question publicly. Israel has a very close military-to-military relationship with the United States, intelligence-to-intelligence relationship. We are strategic partners. And I can tell you that our Israeli national security establishment has been speaking to their American counterparts and we are cooperating fully in this effort. You'll forgive me if I don't go into greater detail than that other than to say that it must be remembered that is ISIS just one branch of a very poisonous tree. And you have other radical movements out there, whether it's the Nusra front in Syria, whether it's Hezbollah backed by Iran, Hezbollah in Lebanon, whether it's Al Qaeda, whether it's Al Shabaab or even Boko Haram. They are all branches of the same poisonous tree, and it's crucial that we defeat this radical extreme nealistic (ph) Islamist terrorist movement.

KEILAR: Is it on the table, though, Israeli military action, to combat ISIS? If you can't say -- if you can't say that it definitely is, is it on the table?

REGEV: I'm not going to answer exactly, --

KEILAR: OK.

REGEV: -- for obvious reasons, that question. I apologize, Brianna.

KEILAR: The prime minister has come under some criticism from opposition leaders. They say that a lack of public partnership with the U.S. is a diplomatic failure. What's your response to that?

REGEV: No. We've been through this sort of thing in the past. When America is focusing on trying to get Arab states, Sunni Arab states to step up to the plate and to pay - to play their part in a concerted effort, sometimes Israel's presence in these things has to be a little more behind the scenes.

KEILAR: Is there a trigger, though --

REGEV: But having said that, every one --

KEILAR: Is there a trigger though that would -

REGEV: Everyone who knows what's -

KEILAR: I know you've said that everyone knows what side Israel is on here. Is there a trigger, though, that would force Israel to take a bigger role or to maybe come out from behind the scenes in the fight against ISIS?

REGEV: I don't want to go into different contingencies. It's obvious that you've got ISIS in Iraq and in Syria. You've got ISIS maybe threatening two other countries, Lebanon and Jordan. And I think it's fair to say that Israel will act as needs be. First of all, in coordination with the United States and, of course, if we are directly attacked, to protect ourselves. But ISIS is not only a threat to the region, it's a threat to the world. It's a threat to the United States. It's a threat to Israel. It's a threat to all democratic countries and it's crucial that we nip this in the bud. The good news is, our assessment is, that this can be done. That this task is doable and that if we act concertedly with allies, we can - we can, as I say, nip this in the bud.

KEILAR: Mark Regev, thank you so much, spokesman for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Appreciate you being with us.

REGEV: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Of course.

And right now ten people - right now there are 10 people who are under arrest in Pakistan. This is in connection with the shooting of Malala Yousafzai. You will remember that's the teen activist who was shot nearly two years ago in Pakistan by Taliban militants in an attempted assassination. She is an outspoken advocate for the rights of girls who want to get a good education. Pakistan says the gang members responsible for the attack have been arrested.

And coming up, the fallout over the Ray Rice case. Now a group of senators want the NFL to get tougher on domestic violence. I will talk with one of them, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The NFL and Commissioner Roger Goodell are coming under more fire over their handling of the Ray Rice case. Now a bipartisan group of 16 of the 20 women in the Senate have sent a letter to the commissioner asking that the NFL adopt a zero tolerance policy towards domestic violence. Here is part of that letter.

"It's long past time for the NFL to institute a real zero-tolerance policy and send a strong message that the league will not tolerate violence against women by its players, who are role models for children across America."

And joining me now to talk about this is Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar. She's one of the senators who signed that letter.

Senator, thanks for being with us. And tell us if you've gotten a response from the commissioner here.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, Brianna, we haven't gotten a direct response yet but I think many people have been hearing the news out there. And one of the reasons the women centers came together, just as we came together to pass the Violence Against Women Act, was to say that these players are role models for young men all across the country. And this is not only a tragedy, but it's an opportunity for the NFL to change their policies. And really when you think about this, this is a celebrity player but we know this happens all the time in America and we need to simply change the culture. And we can't change the culture when people are getting just small suspensions for acts like this as we saw on the video.

KEILAR: You're taking a strong stance as well against the NFL's stated policy of the six game ban, saying that it's too short. The NFL's policy is this. It says, "six games for a first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant. A second offense will result in banishment from the NFL." So these rules, when you look at them, senator, they're for all NFL personnel. This isn't just for players. Do you think that players should be treated differently because they are, as you say, role models?

KLOBUCHAR: No, I think you look at all employees when you look at some kind of a policy for your business. But in this case, obviously, the NFL hadn't done all their homework. When they actually saw the video, they knew that the act was so atrocious, the way that he beat up his then fiance, it was so outrageous that they ended up releasing him from the team. So, to me, this also gets to the point of, why didn't they try to get all the evidence. Clearly there's reports that they had that tape within their midst and there's also, when you're an employer, you really want to try to get the facts. I know as a prosecutor that so many times the victims in these cases they can recant, they change their stories because they're scared, because they're scared economically. This happens all the time. And you have to understand that if you're going to have a policy in place on domestic violence. And I think at some point we know the -- Ray Rice knew about this video. We knew that there were a lot of people that knew about this video. So it seems outrageous to me that they didn't try harder to get a copy of the video.

KEILAR: Can I ask you, and that's really interesting for you to say, coming from the perspective of a former prosecutor, but I want to ask you something I think a lot of people have been shocked. Reporters went to the Ravens' game last night and they found that overwhelmingly it was women who were wearing the Ray Rice jersey. And when reporters interviewed a lot of the people in the stands about this, many said, you know what, this is a private matter between this couple. They are getting counseling, as we've heard. Do you think there's any room for second chances after counseling as the NFL currently gives right now?

KLOBUCHAR: There is always room for second chances in America for everyone unless you're put away for the rest of your life. I think the point here is that the NFL mishandled this. they pretty much admitted that. And how they handled the discipline in the first game - first case with only a two-game suspension, with how they've handled the way they then gave the six-game suspension without having tried to seek out the videotape, and now when they saw the videotape they did release him from the team. And of course people hope that he gets his act together and that they get counseling and everything works out better for them. But at some point, when you have someone playing football, when a videotape like - is out there for the world to see and for every young kid in America to see, you have to take action.

KEILAR: And let me ask you a final question from the perspective of being a former prosecutor. You said a lot of people saw that tape. You seemed doubtful that the NFL didn't see it or didn't have the chance to. Why is that? Why are you doubtful?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, because everyone knows this happened on an elevator and most Americans know there are a lot of times there's cameras on elevators. I've seen them myself. So at some point you say, duh, there's probably a tape of what happened in the elevator. You know there's a tape from the outside. You want to do everything you can. maybe you can't take an action, but you can suspend the player while you're trying to get the evidence. And that's simply not what happened here. And I think it is good that the owners have appointed former FBI Director Mueller to look at this thoroughly. He's a man of integrity. I think that we need to get the facts and the evidence so people understand that no organization is on a pedestal, that no one is above the law and that they have to make sure that they weren't treating this employee or others differently just because they were the NFL.

KEILAR: Should Commissioner Goodell resign?

KLOBUCHAR: I think, again, as a former prosecutor, that you have to look at the facts and the evidence. Those are being collected now and that's something I think we're going to learn more and more about this as time goes on.

And I really say this as a football fan, Brianna. I grew up watching the Vikings. My dad's a sports reporter.

KEILAR: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: His whole life he reported on the Vikings. And I get to actually even go to some of the games and we're sure excited they won last week. That being said, we want to keep our sports as wholesome as we can. In a day when they're all out (ph) about money, we still want to keep these players as role models. And certainly this was mishandled by the NFL. I think they're the first to admit this. And they need to change their policies and the system going forward. And if there's any silver lining here, it will be that America is looking at this issue of domestic violence again and realize just how horrific it is.

KEILAR: Yes, we sure are sure looking. Senator Klobuchar, thanks for being with us.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you very much.

KEILAR: Just ahead, she says that she was appalled by the U.S. government's effort to free her son. The mother of murdered ISIS captive Jim Foley speaks exclusively to CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Welcome back. I'm Brianna Keilar, reporting from Washington.

We have some breaking news from the White House that we'll get to in just a moment.

But first, the mother of James Foley says the United States let her son down. Foley was the American journalist who was beheaded by ISIS fighters three weeks ago. Now Diane Foley is revealing details of what she says happened behind the scenes while her son was held hostage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DIANE FOLEY, JAMES FOLEY'S MOTHER: As an American, I was embarrassed and appalled. I think our efforts to get Jim freed were an annoyance, you know, and -

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: An annoyance to the government?

FOLEY: Yes. And they - yes. And it wasn't -- didn't seem to be in our strategic interest, if you will. I was appalled as an American. Jim would have been saddened. Jim believed till the end that his country would come to their aid.

I know, had he survived this ordeal, he would have been very passionate about the need to make kidnapped citizens a priority. A priority for our country and internationally to try to promote dialogue and strategy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)