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CNN NEWSROOM
Confusion Over America's Role In The Fight To Bring Down ISIS; Syria As The Wild Card; Adrian Peterson Faces New Child Abuse Allegations; NFL Faces Evermore Criticism Over Handling Of Ray Rice And Adrian Peterson Cases
Aired September 16, 2014 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on this Tuesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Beginning with close combat advisers, ground troops, combat troops, boots on the ground. You hear all these different words thrown out there, and you call it semantics, but the role of Americans in both Iraq and Syria has dominated this Senate hearing on the fight to bring down ISIS.
A couple of headlines. Really the biggest one today: Americans could be fighting on the ground at any time if military commanders believe it is necessary and if the president approves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: As I said in my statement, however, this -- my view at this point is this coalition is the appropriate way forward. I believe that will prove true. But if it fails to be true and if there are threats to the United States, then I, of course, would go back to the president and make a recommendation that may include the use of U.S. military ground forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: But under what circumstances would they head to the front of combat lines? Here, Joint Chiefs Chairman Martin Dempsey was pushed on that. Here he was today.
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DEMPSEY: Everyone should be aware when we talk about combat forces -- that's all we grow. When we bring a young man or women in the military, they come in to be a combat soldier or a combat Marine or combat -- we don't bring them in to be anything other than combat capable.
But that's different than how we use them. And in the case of our contributions in Iraq right now, the airmen as the ranking member mentioned, are very much in a combat role. The folks on the ground are in a very much a combat advisory role. They are not participating in direct combat. There is no intention for them to do so. I've mentioned, though, that if I found that circumstance evolving,
that I would, of course, change my recommendation. An example: if the Iraqi security forces and the Pesh (ph) were at some point ready to retake Mosul, a mission that I would find to be extraordinarily complex, it could very well be part of that particular mission to provide close combat advising or accompanying for that mission.
But for the day-to-day activities that I anticipate will evolve over time, I don't see it to be necessary right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: All right. I want to kick our conversation off at that point with Bob McFadden. He's former special agent in charge, NCIS, and senior vice president with the Sufan Group.
So Bob, nice to see you, welcome back.
BOB MCFADDEN, SUFAN GROUP: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Let's just begin with one of the points General Dempsey just made, saying that these Americans going in would be combat capable, right? And he was outlining one example being taking back Mosul as how the role could change. But can you be more specific? At what point would the circumstances change or evolve for these Americans to be on the front lines?
MCFADDEN: Sure. Well, two things going back just a little bit and what the chairman mentioned from past experience. When he's talking about operating in a nonpermissive environment, even though under the rubric of support-and-advisory role, those combat missions were definitely combat error, I should say --
BALDWIN: No ifs, ands or buts about it.
MCFADDEN: No. When it comes to flying that type of mission, absolutely, that is a combat mission because it's nonpermissive environment. The threat can be really quite complicated there.
Now, the other part the chairman seemed to be speaking to scenario- driven type issues. In his example, if an urban area where you have Islamic states so thoroughly inside and embedded, if peshmerga and Iraqi regular forces start to take that area back and are in position to control it, then it sounds like the chairman was talking about a plausible scenario where the advisers would help, let's say, keep that territory.
BALDWIN: And that could be a situation upon which certain Americans could be fired upon and would need to fire back, correct?
MCFADDEN: Well, most definitely in an environment like that. Absolutely. It's a nonpermissive, hostile environment.
BALDWIN: You mention all these different urban areas. So much of this has been over many months a territory grab for ISIS. But in ISIS' view, is this now a war on the United States, do you think? MCFADDEN: Well, I mean, from its rhetoric, it talks in those terms.
It uses terms, it has been at war with the enemies of Islam led by the United States. So in their hearts and minds, absolutely. But we saw earlier or within the last 24 hours, not predicated on any new ISIL or ISIS move in the southwest of Baghdad, the U.S. air support for Iraqi forces in Usafia (ph) area. So, that's the kind of situation right now where ISIS will continue to feel the wrath.
BALDWIN: What about -- you know this part of the world so well, all these different nations. And there was a particularly strong exchange between Senator Lindsay Graham and I believe it was General Dempsey. And he was really pushing him on the key significance of this coalition, right? And it was Lindsey -- and I'm roughly paraphrasing, sort of saying you've drawn these red lines, done nothing, you withdrew from Iraq, left the place in shambles. Sort of showing why would these nations want to join the fight against ISIS with the United States, given some of what's happened in the past?
MCFADDEN: Well, we've been talking about this, Brooke, with you for weeks now that it's extraordinarily complex in building the coalition. And we wouldn't reasonably expect it to come together overnight because of different agendas and different national interests with companies in the region.
For example, the Sunni street, if you will, in a country like Saudi Arabia. It will take some convincing on the part of leadership why this fight against this thing called the Islamic State is in the kingdom's interests and their own national interests when often it's going to be perceived that anything the United States or allies does is for the benefit of Baghdad or the benefit of Damascus. Shia, both sides. So, there's where you have just scratching the surface the complications. BALDWIN: We know the coalition is key. But I guess to your point
about the convincing, it's a matter of how long, I guess, that process of convincing really takes. Bob McFadden, thank you so much.
MCFADDEN: My pleasure.
BALDWIN: As always, your expertise, priceless for us.
And if you thought, really, the plan to fight ISIS in Iraq sounds murky, the U.S. strategy in Syria is even more unclear. The messages from the administration aren't nuanced. But they say a lot. Destroy ISIS in Iraq and disrupt it in Syria.
Syria's the wild card here. In fact, today, ISIS says it shot down one of President Bashar al-Assad's fighter jets. That just came in this afternoon. So essentially, you have ISIS fighting the same enemy the Syrian rebels have been fighting for years. But soon, the U.S. may be putting a dog in the fight, as well, arming those Syrian rebels to turn on ISIS.
The House will debate and vote on that controversial proposal this week. But let's talk about this with someone who has been there many times. David Lesch, Middle East history professor at Trinity University and author of "Syria: The Fall Of The House of Assad." Professor, nice to see you again. Welcome back.
DAVID LESCH, MIDDLE EAST HISTORY PROFESSOR, TRINITY UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: You know, you have been there. As I mentioned, you have met Assad multiple times. As he is watching all of this from his perch way over there, what do you think he's thinking?
LESCH: Well, I think this is a situation where reality has finally fit the narrative of events that he and his cohorts have been portraying since the beginning of the uprising, that from the beginning, there were radical Islamic terrorists that were trying to undermine the regime and cause chaos and instability.
So this has come around to where I think they wanted it to be. I think it's a little bit of be careful what you wish for because the Islamic state, I think, is a bit more than what they had bargained for. They had always hoped this would happen in a way where the international community would begin to see the regime as a potential ally. And there are important voices now, actually, calling for this in and outside of the United States and in the region. I don't think it's going to happen --
BALDWIN: Do you think Assad is thinking that in some alternate universe could happen? Do you think he's wishing for that?
LESCH: Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. He has always, from the time I've known him, has wanted to - as many thought Syrians have always thought that Syria would be a natural ally to the United States because it protects a secular way of life. He says that's been a big danger to Syria, the Islamic radical terrorists trying to undermine Syria's secular way of life. And so they always thought they were a natural ally of the United States. And many Syrians have said that. They always said, why do you go to Israel? Syria would be a much better friend.
Of course, for all sorts of reasons that hasn't happened. And it's a difficult prospect given the fact now -- especially official. I think unofficially, probably, if there not already is, there will be some intelligence cooperation simply to prevent any mistakes from happening, such as shooting down a U.S. airplane that might be flying over Syria.
BALDWIN: Let me play a little bit more of this exchange today. This was Senator McCain. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: You don't think that the Free Syrian Army is going to fight against Bashar al Assad, who has been decimating them? You think these people you're training will only go back to fight against ISIL? Do you really believe that, General?
DEMPSEY: What I believe, Senator, is that as we train them and develop a military chain of command linked to a political structure that we can establish objectives that defer that challenge into the future. We do not have to deal with it now.
MCCAIN: That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire concept and motivation of the Free Syrian Army. That it is Bashar Assad who has killed many more of them than ISIL has --
DEMPSEY: I agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, to the senator's point, these rebels have been emotionally invested in taking down ashar al Assad. And if the U.S. arms the Free Syrian Army, wouldn't the U.S. then be in a proxy war with the president? With Assad?
LESCH: Well, it's a very complicated situation. I don't think any arming of the Free Syrian Army or any opposition elements in Syria are going to be capable of militarily being victorious against a Syrian regime. The Syrian regime has too much fire power; they're supported by Russia and Iran.
I think what the U.S. perhaps is hoping for is that the pressure from ISIS on the Assad regime and then perhaps a little bit more pressure from opposition elements such as the Free Syria Army will compel the Syrian regime to negotiate, to compromise, perhaps, on a political settlement. Maybe compel the Iranians and the Russians to convince Assad that he needs to go sooner or later --
BALDWIN: Is he really capable of compromise, sir?
LESCH: Not at this time. Not at this time. They think they have, you know -- Assad thinks he has maneuvered his regime and his country in the position that they want. That they are winning. That the international community is coming around.
So they're going to wait and see for a while. But eventually, I think, many of them understand they're going to have to make some compromise. It's whether or not the international community in the United States are willing to work with Assad to effect any sort of compromise or political settlement that may come more in the long term than the near term.
BALDWIN: That's the issue, wouldn't it be, down the road? David Lesch, author of "Syria: The Fall Of The House of Assad." Thank you so much for coming back. We appreciate it.
And just ahead, whether calling it a war or uncertainty over ground troops, what is the behind the seemingly mixed messages from the Obama administration? We'll talk to Jake Tapper. Covered the White House for a bunch of years. He's our chief Washington correspondent. He'll weigh in on that next.
Plus, as another child abuse allegation surfaces against NFL star Adrian Peterson, text messages are shining a light on how he punished another of his kids.
And major news: space geek alert from NASA. It has been three years since astronaut - actually, U.S. astronauts went to space, right? Taking off from the U.S. soil. But very soon, NASA will be making a major announcement that could change all of that. Stay right here.
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BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Defense secretary Chuck Hagel and Joint Chiefs Chairman General Martin Dempsey both warning members of Congress today decisions about putting these combat troops on the ground will need to come on a case-by-case basis as the White House continues to insist there will be no boots on the ground.
And remember this? In the days following President Obama's primetime speech, there was certainly no shortage of coNFLicting accounts about whether the United States is at war with ISIS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: If someone wants to think about it as being at war with ISIL, they can do so. But the fact is, it's a major counterterrorism operation.
ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: But make no mistake. We know we are at war with ISIL.
JOSH EARNEST: Is the United States is at war with ISIL in the same way that we are at war with al Qaeda and its al Qaeda affiliates all around the globe.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
BALDWIN: So, that was a little mash-up for you. That was four people, three government departments, less than a 48-hour timeframe.
So, to sort this out, let me go to chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper and host of "THE LEAD." Jake Tapper, today's ground forces development, do you see this as mixed messages here?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course. To a degree, they are missed messages. I think there are three reasons. One is, obviously this is complicated. The United States is about to engage in a military operation, well, it already has been. But an even more extensively military operation against a terrorist organization that is not a nation state but thinks of itself as a nation state. So there are complications there. And it's a complex operation where the U.S. would be doing air strikes, and they are hoping for ground forces among three different groups if not more. So, that's one.
Two, I think also what you're seeing here, Brooke, is a reflection of what is obviously an ambiguity that the president feels about this operation. It was earlier this year he referred to ISIS as JV. It was about a month ago that he said it was a fantasy, that the Syrian rebels could have been armed and could have prevented this from happening. So, he obviously feels coNFLicting thoughts about that. I think you see that reflected in some of the voices in his administration.
And then lastly, Brooke, of course, there's politics at play. President Obama before the midterms especially does not want to be seen as starting another war, especially in a country where it was his singular promise that got him to be the nominee and then president to withdraw U.S. troops. So there's a lot going on here.
BALDWIN: Okay. I hear you loud and clear on the complexities of the whole issue. And one of the questions that was posed to Secretary Hagel, this is from Senator Nelson today. You know, what message Congress will be sending if it adjourns without voting on this plan to combat ISIS? I want to take a listen to that first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK HAGEL, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think that message would be very, very seriously misunderstood and misinterpreted by our allies, our friends, our partners around the world. And our adversaries. This is a clear, clear threat, what the president has talked about, the threat to this country from ISIL.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I mean, Jake, isn't it -- it's sort of one thing -- this is sort of sad to say -- but it's one thing for, you know, Congress and its dysfunction to be, you know, sort of okay for Americans here at home. But it's quite another when they're not on the same page. And what kind of message is that sending to nations around the world, right?
TAPPER: Yes. And I think Secretary of Defense Hagel was being rather charitable when he said that the message would be misunderstood by enemies and allies alike. It might be understood quite perfectly that the administration, or rather that the Congress, is not 100 percent politically confident in the plan or willing to at least put their own skin in the game to do this vote, not willing to take any sort of political risks. Not 100 percent behind this idea of sending more troops abroad to fight this terrorist threat. It's easier, of course, to speak against it than to vote against it.
So it may, in fact, be that it wouldn't be misunderstood. It would be understood perfectly, this $500 million that the -- Chuck Hagel, the secretary of defense was talking about as well as this provision allowing the Defense Department to train Syrian rebels. It might not be a question
of misunderstanding at all, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Tapper! Love having your voice on the show, thank you so much. We watch you on THE LEAD each and every day, 4:00 Eastern here on CNN. The last thing -- moving on -- Adrian Peterson needs was really more
trouble. But he's landed in some. Another allegation of child abuse against this NFL star, complete with text messages as evidence. You'll see what he wrote to that child's mother, ahead.
And for years, the U.S. has depended on Russia to take astronauts to the ISS, to the International Space Station, just the last couple of years. Remember, we shuttered our space shuttle program. But soon, we could be seeing space launches back in the USA. We'll tell you why and the big news from NASA, coming up.
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BALDWIN: Minnesota Viking Adrian Peterson may be back in the game, but his latest hit from off the field. Houston affiliate KHOU is reporting that Peterson, who has been indicted for allegedly abusing his son, was accused of hurting a different child before. This stems back from something in 2013. No charges were filed, and this revelation as the Vikings are allowing Peterson to play again. The team kept him from the field for Sunday's game after a grand jury indicted him. And you've seen some of these photos. I mean, the case file includes pictures of his son's injuries, which TMZ got their hands on. The Vikings' general manager acknowledged the photos were disturbing when explaining why Peterson is getting reactivated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SPEILMAN, MINNESOTA VIKINGS GENERAL MANAGER: This is a difficult path to navigate regarding the judgment of how a parent disciplines his child. Based on the extensive information that we have right now, and what we know about Adrian not only as a person, but what he has also done for this community, we believe he deserves to play while the legal process plays out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: All right. Let's talk about what else we know here. HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell joins me and CNN's Ed Lavandera reporting for me in Dallas, Texas.
So, Ed, let me just begin with you. This is two different incidents we're talking about. Tell me about the earlier allegation of Peterson hurting, allegedly, this other child.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a little more than a year ago. The allegation stems from last summer (COUGHS) -- excuse me, with another boy that was four years old at the time, and a different mother. KHOU reporting a string of text messages between Adrian Peterson and that mother of that child where they went back and forth.
But Rusty Hardin, the attorney for Adrian Peterson, tells us, "The allegation of another investigation into Adrian Peterson is simply not true. This is not a new allegation. It's one that is unsubstantiated and was shopped around to authorities in two states over a year ago. And nothing came of it. An adult witness adamantly insists Adrian did nothing inappropriate with his son."
BALDWIN: So, Jane, the thing that jumped out at me is I was watching KHOU's piece and sort of reading this string of text messages is that Peterson actually mentioned CPS in this text exchange. He writes this: "With the mother of this child, I'm not about to be getting questioned down like you CPS." I should mention the mom is pushing back about the boy actually getting hit. But the fact that he mentioned that. What does that say to you? Anything?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Well, it's disrespectful to the mother of his child. "Oh, you're not going to question me like you're CPS." It's really an exertion of male privilege. And it's absolutely outrageous. Now, where there's smoke, there's fire. Yes, there were no charges that came out of this earlier, this other incident. But nonetheless, I think -- in my opinion -- it shows a pattern.
And I'm absolutely outraged that this man is playing in Sunday's game and that the NFL and his team haven't looked at this entire picture, which they said they were going to monitor closely and say, no, this is not acceptable. Somebody who is accused of felony child abuse should not be on the field as a role model.
We -- I think they've learned absolutely nothing from the Ray Rice situation. They only respond to a massive uproar. And I don't think they're going to respond unless there's a massive uproar in this situation. So let me start it right now and say that discipline is not abuse, and that whipping your child and leaving marks is not childrearing, it's not disciplining, it is abuse.
BALDWIN: Still, a lot of eyeballs on the screen watching these games recently on the NFL despite a lot of calls, you know, not to be there, not to watch. And I just have to ask you, Ed, as far as this team, as far as the Vikings is concerned, what kind of, if any, fallout have they seen from this Peterson story?
LAVANDERA: Well, you know, they got a lot of praise earlier when this first broke for not allowing Adrian Peterson to play this past weekend. But now that has changed since the Minnesota Vikings announced yesterday that Adrian Peterson will be - unless things change here in the next few days - will be on the field again this coming weekend. But a sponsor, Radisson Hotels, cutting ties with the team. And the governor of Minnesota just a little while ago calling Adrian Peterson an embarrassment to the organization, and says that the player should be suspended until this legal process is gone through.
So, you know, obviously the Vikings decision to put Adrian Peterson back out there and the chance he'll play again this weekend has rankled a lot of feathers once again.
BALDWIN: Ed Lavandera, appreciate you very much. Jane Velez-Mitchell, thank you for weighing in on this one for us today.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Just ahead here on CNN, staying with the NFL as Ray Rice gets ready to appeal his punishment for hitting his then-fiancee, now wife. We'll speak live with the wife of an NFL player about the spotlight, about money. About how finances, you know, really could play a role in someone's decision to stay or go.
But next, this capsule could be part of a new space race that could change how NASA does business. Are Americans returning to space from U.S. soil? A major announcement from NASA, very soon. Stay with me.
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