Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

Ray Rice Expected to Appeal Suspension; Adrian Peterson to Return this Sunday Despite Child Abuse Charge; Sworn Member of al Qaeda Becomes a Double Agent

Aired September 16, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A Danish boxer tells an incredible story of working for and then spying against the world's most notorious terror group.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: There is news for you. Former Baltimore Ravens' running back Ray Rice is expected to appeal his indefinite suspension from the NFL by tonight's deadline. My guess, he is successful. We'll discuss why. As you know, Rice has been sidelined over that video of him knocking out his then fiance in a casino elevator. The president of the NFL Players Association spoke with Erin Burnett about Rice's future. Here's his take.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BURNETT, ANCHOR, CNN'S "OUTFRONT": Should Ray Rice be allowed to play again?

ERIC WINSTON, PRESIDENT, NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION: I think so. I think that we're all entitled to a second chance. Obviously he made a horrific mistake and he's going to pay for it. And he's already been disciplined once. Actually been disciplined multiple times by the commissioner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All this as the Vikings' Adrian Peterson returns to the field despite a child abuse charge. Now his lawyer is denying new abuse allegations -- they're actually old allegations. They're from like a year ago -- involving another one of his kids who lives with another mother. Joining me now, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin, and Turner Sports analyst and CNN political commentator Greg Anthony.

Two good looking people. Let's see if you can answer the test that is coming your way.

Sunny Hostin, can you make the case for how Ray Rice does not win this appeal?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think he's actually on pretty strong footing here.

CUOMO: I said did not, does not. You can't, right? He's going to win.

HOSTIN: No - no, I -- well, I think it's going to be a complicated procedure. I think it's a procedure we don't see very often when it comes to the NFL.

CUOMO: The penalty is six games. How do you suspend him indefinitely?

HOSTIN: Yes, I think it's very clear, though, that the issue is going to be, was he disciplined for the same action more than once? And the other issue is, did the commissioner -- did he lie to the commissioner? Did he lie in describing the incident? And was anything different between the first suspension and the indefinite suspension?

CUOMO: Do you think the NFL, Greg Anthony, wants to get into the conversation of who lied about what here with Ray Rice?

GREG ANTHONY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. And, listen, we all really abhor the actions of Ray Rice, and that's been played out. But, now, it's as if the league is trying to make him a scapegoat for the mistakes that they have made in a sense, because you - they're kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't. The fact that after the video comes out, he'd only gotten a two-game suspension when everybody was crying - in an uproar prior to that, expecting him to get the full brunt of the commissioner's office. Then, you know, after the video comes out, the team cuts him -

CUOMO: True.

ANTHONY: And then they decide to suspend him indefinitely. That was purely - it's not a PR move, it's a public perception move, because that's what the league is in the business of. They are now trying to win back the favor of their fans and potentially their sponsors, because this thing is picking up momentum.

CUOMO: True.

ANTHONY: And that's what they're trying to get out in front of it, which they didn't do initially.

HOSTIN: And they botched it.

ANTHONY: Yes.

HOSTIN: That's the bottom line, they botched it. Had they not botched it, I don't think he would have any grounds for an appeal. But because of the way the NFL handled it, he has a very strong case.

CUOMO: Well, but he would still have to serve out whatever the penalty is. I would say, yes, it was botched by the NFL. I think that's easy. But in terms of who did the wrong thing here, I think we're distracted by the NFL on this. The NFL is an entertainment organization. This guy was given a plea deal by the prosecutor. He was indicted, pleaded not guilty and he was given treatment. He agreed to it and that was that (ph). Where's the outrage towards the prosecutor in this? Why are we all pointing at the NFL for what they're supposed to do? HOSTIN: Well, I've been outraged by the prosecutor because generally

domestic violence cases are never eligible for pre-trial diversion programs because we know that people that abuse, abuse again and again and again. And I can't begin to tell you how many victims refuse to get on the witness stand when I was prosecuting these cases.

CUOMO: They have a video here though.

HOSTIN: And, unfortunately, some of them end up dead.

CUOMO: That's right. But they have a video here -

HOSTIN: And so you don't -- but the point is -

CUOMO: So you didn't need to put the victim on there.

HOSTIN: That's right, but the point is, you don't allow these types of defendants into those programs.

CUOMO: That's right. But they did.

HOSTIN: But they did.

CUOMO: And instead we're pointing at the NFL.

HOSTIN: And the NFL should have had, and they should still have, a zero tolerance policy when it comes to domestic violence and child abuse.

CUOMO: Why when the system doesn't.

HOSTIN: It should -- but the NFL should. And I believe that the system should as well. Unfortunately, the system does not, but the NFL should make the statement at this point that there's a zero tolerance policy.

CUOMO: Why should the NFL be held to a higher standard, Greg Anthony -

ANTHONY: Well -

CUOMO: When they can say, less of our guys get jammed up with the law than society overall? Why do they have to be the higher moral bar?

ANTHONY: Well because -- simply because to what you just said, because too much - to whom much is given, much is expected. And so when you look at the professional athletes and you look at those that run these teams, they are not the norm of society to begin with. So they're that 1 percenter. So people in general are going to be far more cynical of them.

I will say this though, and, listen, I'm totally against domestic violence as well. I don't think there's any doubt -

CUOMO: Who's for domestic violence?

HOSTIN: Right. ANTHONY: I don't think anybody is. But - but, I will also say that I think we're going down a slippery slope if we start talking about zero tolerance because what does that really mean? I mean I can see a scenario where they're already going to suspend the guy for six games. And let's not forget this. Think about the vitriol that Ray Rice has dealt with beyond football -

CUOMO: True.

ANTHONY: Just because of the nature of what's happened.

HOSTIN: Sure.

CUOMO: Although they were nice to him in New Rochelle when he went to see his high school, but -

ANTHONY: Well, yes, yes, but that's where he's from. But ultimately, even though we see some people being nice to him, there are a lot of people who aren't. And to have that scarlet letter on you, if you will, that is also going to be a damning punishment.

HOSTIN: I don't think it's enough. I don't think it's enough.

ANTHONY: I'm not saying it's - whether it's enough or not, but we're also in America where people make mistake every day. I've made them. I don't know anybody who hasn't. And I don't know that we want to start going down a path where, if you make the mistake, even as egregious as that one was, then now we're going to say, well, OK, we're going to take away your opportunity to make a living and live your life -

HOSTIN: He can make a living in many ways, but I think playing professional football -

ANTHONY: Well, but not necessarily. As a professional athlete, not all athletes can make livings in other -

HOSTIN: You've been able to do it, Greg, and there's so many others that -

ANTHONY: Yes, well, but I'm not - I'm not the normal.

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE) member of Congress. He's not (ph) a good example.

ANTHONY: I'm not the normal. No, but there are a lot of guys that haven't.

HOSTIN: There - there are so many - I think it's a privilege.

ANTHONY: Yes, that's right.

HOSTIN: And I think you'll agree it's a privilege to play professional sports. And what kind of message are we sending to children and to the our women that you can abuse a woman, you can cold-clock (ph) her like that, knock her unconscious, it can be caught on videotape, but you can still go on to make $50 million, $44 million playing that particular sport? ANTHONY: Well, I don't know that people want to make - I think - I

think the penalty should be more severe. We saw a similar scenario play out with Michael Vick. He paid a significant -

CUOMO: Well, he went to jail though.

ANTHONY: He went to prison as well.

CUOMO: Right.

HOSTIN: That's right.

ANTHONY: But he also now became a story of redemption. And again, I'm not here to the condone Ray Rice or his actions, but I'm also going to be someone who wants to be somewhat more compassionate -

CUOMO: Right.

ANTHONY: And not just throw the book at everybody -

CUOMO: It's also tricky when the league is going to have to do more than the system does.

ANTHONY: It is very difficult.

CUOMO: And I think Adrian Peterson is a better example of this, OK.

HOSTIN: OK.

CUOMO: Because what are we seeing there? One, you have Ray Rice. Now the league says, well, we're going towards zero tolerance for domestic violence. Hitting a kid doesn't count? He's reinstated. He's going to playing this Sunday?

HOSTIN: Well, it's just unbelievable. And now we're hearing about possibly another incident of child abuse. When you - when you talk about domestic violence and child abuse especially, you've got to have the zero tolerance because what I've been - what's been remarkable to me, quite frankly, is the reaction of so many people. I believe that spanking is an assault. Children are the only people in our society that we are allowed to hit without it being criminal.

CUOMO: People are talking about spanking. Legally, good point. Legally, if you hit me, the way he hit his son with a switch, right or wrong, you're going to get arrested, you're going to be prosecuted.

HOSTIN: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Only children can be legally hit under the law, except in self- defense.

HOSTIN: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Which is - but you know what, you see it reflected in society.

HOSTIN: And yet he's allowed to play. Yet he's allowed to play. CUOMO: Because people are in favor of spanking. He didn't spank. It was abuse. But that's what's changed the dynamic there.

ANTHONY: Well, well, first of all, first of all, let's stop saying that the gentleman is guilty. We're not - we don't -- it has to play out.

HOSTIN: What more do we need?

ANTHONY: Well, first of all, I'm not necessarily -

HOSTIN: We don't have video, but we have the bruises and his admission.

ANTHONY: Well, I'm not necessarily - but that's also your opinion.

CUOMO: True.

ANTHONY: There are segments of our society where that is an accepted norm.

CUOMO: That's what I was saying.

ANTHONY: So it's not fair to sit here just because you don't believe in the --

HOSTIN: But he's admitted to the abuse.

ANTHONY: Wait - whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm - no. What he admitted to was disciplining his child. Now, was it excessive? That's where we're going to find out in a court of law.

HOSTIN: He admitted that he went overboard.

ANTHONY: Well, yes, but, listen, I don't have a problem if you use a certain amount of spanking and discipline. I have four children and most of society does not.

CUOMO: Neither does society. It's legal in so many states.

ANTHONY: So all I'm saying is, it's not fair to sit here and then just all of a sudden say that this man is guilty of something because you don't believe in disciplining your child that way if a lot of people in America in particular have no problem with it.

HOSTIN: Well -

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE) point.

ANTHONY: Now, did he go overboard? That I don't know. But to say --

HOSTIN: How could you not know?

ANTHONY: But to say that it's not -

HOSTIN: We have pictures of it. See, that's the problem, people are unwilling to call it what it is.

ANTHONY: Well - well - but - but - but -

CUOMO: But he's making - hold on. I want to give you the final point, Sunny.

ANTHONY: I'm not going to go there.

CUOMO: But, in fairness, one of the things we've seen in this cultural conversation that's coming around this, more people are like, hey, spanking's the way it is. Not blacks from the south. People in general. I'm seeing it on my thread. They're saying, I'm OK with it. I'm not saying I am, but that's what we're seeing. I think it plays into it.

Where's your final point about where the line is?

HOSTIN: The line certainly between discipline and abuse is very clear. When you leave bruises and welts and scars and open wounds, that clearly is child abuse.

CUOMO: The law recognizes that as well.

HOSTIN: The law recognizes that. But in terms of spanking, the American Academy of Pediatric has come out very clearly that spanking has very negative consequences. Children are made to be - are fearful, their mental issues, mental illness issues that arise from it. And so spanking, as discipline, is not only ineffective in my view, it's criminal. And, you know, when you know better, you should do better. There were times before when we didn't allow our kids - our kids didn't wear helmets, right, when they were riding bikes. We didn't wear seat belts as children. We know better now. We now know that spanking is ineffective.

CUOMO: The law hasn't evolved to where you want it to be.

HOSTIN: Why are we still saying that it's OK.

CUOMO: Because the law says it.

ANTHONY: I was spanked - I was spanked and I turned out OK. HOSTIN: And that's the thing -

CUOMO: You're going to get spanked now as soon as this segment's over.

ANTHONY: I know. I know.

CUOMO: I've got news for you.

HOSTIN: Well -- and I think that that's really, you know, so many people are saying, well, I was spanked and I turned out OK.

CUOMO: Almost as a badge of honor.

ANTHONY: No (ph).

HOSTIN: I must admit to you that you should think about the fact that you turned out OK in spite of it, not because of it.

CUOMO: All right, we're going to continue the conversation -

ANTHONY: No, I don't agree with that.

CUOMO: Let's continue it in the break and we're going to continue it for days to come because it - no, it's a big one and people are really on both sides. Thank you very much, Greg Anthony. Thank you very much, Sunny Hostin.

HOSTIN: You bet.

CUOMO: I'll protect you a little bit.

ANTHONY: Thank you. Thank you.

CUOMO: Sunny's got a bad shoulder, I can take her.

So, another story for you, a sworn agent of al Qaeda becomes the CIA's man inside the terror organization. How did that happen? Double agent Morton Storm is going to tell his story to CNN. You're going to want to see it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: We are about to tell you quite an extraordinary tale from radical Islam to double secret agent, a top secret double agent.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PEREIRA (voice-over): Morten Storm is his name. He's a former Danish boxer and jihadist who later became a sworn member of al Qaeda. Along the way he became a double agent for Western intelligence. His story is chronicled in a new book and the exclusive CNN Special Report "Double Agent: Inside al Qaeda for the CIA." I want you to listen to this clip about the moment Storm told Danish officials he wanted to fight terror.

MORTEN STORM, FORMER DOUBLE AGENT: I told him I want something with pork and bacon in it.

And I want a beer.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Beer and bacon for a Muslim

STORM: They couldn't believe it, they could not believe their own ears. I told them, guys, I am no longer Muslim. I decided I want to fight the war on terror, and when I told them I was on their side he high-fived me. He said this is going to be great.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

PEREIRA (on camera): I want to bring in CNN international correspondent Nic Robertson, you saw there interviewing Morten Storm, and CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank who co-wrote the book "Agent Storm: My Life Inside al Qaeda and the CIA" with Storm. Boy, gentlemen, this is an intriguing and twisted tale. Paul, I'll start with you. How did the documentary come to light, how did we find out about all of this?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, a Danish newspaper broke some initial details on the story, and so Nic and I contacted this guy on his Facebook page, the Facebook page of a cover company he was using in his espionage work, and a few weeks later we met him in an undisclosed location.

PEREIRA: My goodness! And then I know that Nic, you've been involved in some of the reporting on this. At one point in the documentary you call him the Forest Gump of radical Islamism. Can you explain that to me?

ROBERTSON: This is a guy who just went out there, wanted to be radical, wanted to kind of join and mix with jihadists and just wound up by the pure sort of time that he was doing this, the late 90's, early 2000's. He was mixing with some of the people who were going to become top leaders in al Qaeda, the most senior figure inside al Qaeda in Yemen and an inspiration to terrorists around the world, the American-born cleric Anwar Awlaki. He also knew and associate with top al Qaeda leaders in Africa as well. This is it. He just traveled the world, and he met these people in his travels.

PEREIRA: But somewhere along the line, Paul, he decides to switch sides. What motivates him, and how is he able to pull that off?

CRUICKSHANK: He became disillusioned with al Qaeda's world view, the fact they were targeting so many civilians. Also, he was trying to go and fight in Somalia. He ended up not being able to go there, so that sense of momentum that he had was stalled, and he had some time to do some thinking and he decided that he was on completely the wrong path. He decided then he wanted to work for Western intelligence. He knew just how dangerous these people were, because he knew them up close and he wanted to take the fight to them.

PEREIRA: He deradicalized.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely.

PEREIRA: Essentially.

CRUICKSHANK: Very quickly deradicalized, almost over night. A lot of these people have this very fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, its like a house of cards. So when it collapses, it collapses fast.

PEREIRA: But, help us understand this. So, Nic, before he was al Qaeda, before he was a double agent, he was first and foremost a fighter. Is that why he was able to, I don't know, gain the confidence and trust of these people inside the organization?

ROBERTSON: He moved between Denmark, and Britain, and Kenya as well, and Yemen. And amongst the radicals that he mixed with there, he attended a very radical seminary, they knew him from the seminary. He met the sort of radical leaders on his way up through the organization.

He came back to Denmark and Britain, mixed with radicals there, was out espousing a really radical sort of line of Islam. Even getting into confrontations, almost a fight he got into in one mosque in Denmark with one of the imams because his views were so radical.

And that gave him credibility, and the fact that he was able to connect on the telephone an al Qaeda leader in Yemen with an al Qaeda leader in Somalia just sort of burnished his credentials with them, so they trusted him. This is what made him so valuable, not just the CIA, but to British and Danish intelligence as well.

PEREIRA: But then -- well, we don't want to give away the whole film, because I want to push you to the special report tonight. But something changes, and I guess suffice it to say he decides to speak with this Danish journalist. One might argue that he has an ax to grind, and that's what's motivating, his bitterness.

CRUICKSHANK: He wanted the world to know who he really was, which side he was really fighting on. For most of the world, even people close to him, he was a radical jihadist, he was a sworn member of al Qaeda. He wanted the world to know who he really was, he had to do that for his own sake and for the people around him.

PEREIRA: And now he is a marked man.

CRUICKSHANK: He's a marked man. ISIS fighters in Syria last year threatened his life. They put out a video calling on people to kill him.

PEREIRA: This is a compelling, intriguing, and twisted tale. I want to point you to the CNN Special Report, its called "Double Agent: Inside al Qaeda for the CIA". It airs tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. Also check out Paul's terrific book "Agent Storm: My Life Inside al Qaeda and the CIA."

Nic, Paul, really intriguing and upsetting, but intriguing look inside this operative's life. Thank you, so much gentlemen.

We also have an unbelievable story to tell you about a priceless artifact of 9/11. It's lost and then it's found again. This story could very well restore your faith in humanity. It's our Good Stuff and its coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Good Stuff, especially with everything going on in the world today.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO (voice-over): 13 years ago the family of a firefighter who fell in 9/11 and had special, engraved bracelets made to remember the hero they lost. Okay, that's the situation we're telling you about. But then, Michael Otten's son had treasured this for years. Take a listen. JONATHAN OTTEN, MICHAEL OTTON'S SON: It' s a whole memory of how my

childhood was, what happened. And I just remember wearing it from 9/11 on for two or three years up until I lost it.

CUOMO: And like so many kids, this, while it just seems like a bracelet to some, was all he really had that really connected him to his father, because he was so young. You know? He was 8. And then he is playing, he's out in the surf, and he loses it on a Long Island beach, okay?

And not only that, he is 8 years old when he loses it. It's 10 years ago, you can tell by the picture. So he was just heart broken, but guess what. It's not the end of the story.

MARLENE QUINN, FOUND OTTEN'S BRACELET: This one particular day, I looked down and there was this bracelet that just had appeared after the wave had receded.

CUOMO: I don't know if you spend much time at the beach, but the idea of a bracelet washing back up, and being found, small, okay, in 2014. So that was ER nurse Marlene Quinn. She then used the engraving to get the bracelet and return it home.

PEREIRA (voice-over): That's even more amazing.

CUOMO: Right? How amazing was she to do that? And of course, it could not mean more, not just to the kids, but to Michael Otten's wife.

MARION OTTEN, MICHAEL OTTEN'S WIFE: It's a sign, he's here. You know? He is with us. He's got our back, and it doesn't get much clearer than this.

CUOMO: That's beautiful, and there's another connection. Tell them, Mick.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

PEREIRA (on camera): The nurse's brother is a firefighter. Firefighters are very close to her and she understands the importance they all play in our world. Especially the fallen ones.

CUOMO (on camera): But to take the time to find it and return it to them is a beautiful thing to do. Certainly the Good Stuff.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That's certainly the Good Stuff.

PEREIRA: Thanks for that.

CUOMO: Right? Even science agrees with that. She's a hard sell even though she's married to a veteran.

A lot of news this morning, so we're going to get you to the "NEWSROOM" With Ms. Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: You're right, there is a lot of news this morning. Good morning. Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.