Return to Transcripts main page

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Did Administration Miss Formation of ISIL in Syria? Main Suspect in Hannah Graham's Disappearance is in Custody

Aired September 29, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

The politics lead now, President Obama blared the horn of American exceptionalism last night saying the world looks to the United States to lead fights against ISIS and al Qaeda. But many Americans think the globe should start turning elsewhere.

Fresh polling out just this hour, 58 percent of the American people say it is not the United States' job to solve world crisis after crisis.

Here now with more on these numbers released just moments ago, CNN chief national correspondent John King.

John, there's a slew of information about ISIS, how Americans feel about the president's foreign policy. What do you think is the most important poll number in this list?

KING: I would say 73 followed closely by 45 -- 73, Jake, is because 73 percent of the American people, when do we get nearly three quarters of the country supporting something -- look right here. They favor these airstrikes right now. The president has the support of nearly three-quarters of the country as he launches this bombing campaign in Iraq and in Syria.

But here's where it gets interesting. Despite that support, only 45 percent say they support the president's handling of ISIS.

So, there are still some doubts about his crisis management and some of its doubts about whether they want the United States involved in another military intervention. Look at this, 49 percent disapprove of his handling of ISIS. So, 73 percent approve of what he is doing right now, yet there are still some doubts about the overall policy and strategy. And I think that reflects the Iraq, the Afghanistan legacy as well as personal doubts about the president. We asked the American people in our poll, do you describe yourself as a hawk or a dove? 45 percent describe themselves as a hawk, 50 percent as a dove. No surprise Republicans are more likely to call themselves Hawk, Democrats more dots. How would they describe the president? 29 percent describe the president as a hawk. 65 percent, nearly two thirds, as a dove. And then to the number you just mentioned. This is the Iraq/Afghanistan legacy and the hangover. 39 percent of, four in ten Americans yes, American should take the lead. But six in 10 Americans saying no right now. That's a reflection of number one, we don't want boots on the ground, number two, where are the other allies in this effort and three, a bit of doubts about this president.

TAPPER: A dove? I don't think he's a dove.

KING: I think he's a dove.

TAPPER: He's bombed seven countries. George W. Bush only had four. He's a piker compared to George W. Bush.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: John King, thank you so much. President Obama admitted last night on "60 Minutes" that his administration, quote, "underestimated what had been taking place in Syria." Joining me to discuss this, our Jay Carney, President Obama's former press secretary. And Bill Kristol, founder of "The Weekly Standard."

So, Jay, last night, the president pointed specifically a finger at the intelligence community for not thoroughly anticipating the threat from ISIS. Here's a quote from a very wise man speaking last Halloween.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We consider the government of Iraq an essential partner in the fight against a common enemy, al Qaeda in Iraq, which now calls itself the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Iraqis security forces are confronting an increasingly large, sophisticated and well-armed ISIL network, which is able to mount coordinated a complex attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Almost one year ago.

CARNEY, CNN ANALYST: Sure.

TAPPER: You, before most Americans had ever heard of ISIS or ISIL, call them "an increasingly large sophisticated well-armed network, which is able to mount coordinated and complex attacks." Two or three months later, President Obama called them a jayvee team. So, how did you get it so right, and your former boss got it wrong?

CARNEY: Well, first of all I think that we have to be careful about making too much about word choices as a substitute for the substance of the issues. The fact that ISIS was becoming a potent force, I think everyone agreed to be true both in the intelligence community and the broader administration on Capitol Hill and elsewhere, the major mistake or failure by the intelligence community -- and by the administration -- was underestimating or rather overestimating the capacity of U.S.-trained Iraqi security forces to withstand and push back against an invasion by ISIS. It was well-known within national security circles within the administration that ISIS was growing in its potency, was more and more dominant in Syria. But what was not expected was that they would be able to roll straight through Iraq, western Iraq and almost reach Baghdad. TAPPER: Somebody who shared the view that you did, which was that

ISIS - this is last year, was a serious threat, Brett McGuirk from the State Department, went to Capitol Hill and he was pleading, pleading with Capitol Hill to send more weapons to Iraq because the Iraqis were unprepared and were not going to be able to handle this. Bill, I'll let you weigh in here. I mean it's not just that the Iraqis were overestimated. Actually, I don't think the Obama administration overestimated the Iraqi forces at all.

WILLIAM KRISTOL, EDITOR, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Yeah, well, if Jay were still there, obviously, the president wouldn't have made that foolish mistake he made yesterday. Jay was telling me that in the green room. You know, it's just ...

CARNEY: Oh, no.

KRISTOL: Just kidding. Sort of kidding, no, really, I'm kidding. Just don't want to get in the source trouble with this - Chris former colleagues. It's not a good idea in general to blame the intelligence community for your administration's failures and flaws. And everyone gets the things wrong, and there's no - actually, I don't think that's for the particular criticism necessarily that the president could have anticipated all of this a year ago, exactly I was going to play out the criticism is that he should have acted earlier in Syria, he should have acted earlier this year, when the actual offenses started in Iraq. But - I guess the intelligence community, this administration tries to do that. The intelligence community tends to get - tends to make its case on background -- I'd like to say fact and fact, you know, if anyone else there - anyone out there is offended in the intelligence community, just call "The Weekly Standard."

(LAUGHTER)

KRISTOL: The search warrant number is 202-293-49 - Jake will be glad to take your phone calls.

TAPPER: But here's why this is substance - here's why the jayvee thing is a substantive argument because, yes, it's - on one level it's a gotcha that the president said this and it turns out that's not OK. But another level, it's a question of, did President Obama and the administration in the White House take the threat seriously enough and by calling it jayvee, it seems to indicate, no. And - but the question is, does the Obama administration to often not deal with the brush fires and wait until it's a huge raging fire and then it's forced to act instead of acting when it could have ...

CARNEY: I think that the issue here when we talk about the threat, when the president used those words which have come back to haunt him, referring to the growing al Qaeda affiliated movement in Syria and Iraq, is, are they a threat to the United States? The comparison is always to core al Qaeda, core al Qaeda, which attacked the United States on September 11th 2001. And by comparison, they were not a threat. They weren't then and they're not, by comparison. But they're continuing to build potency and strength. They have great ambitions. And I think if you look at some of the testimony that you showed earlier, a lot of this was about what ISIS's ambitions were. But there were expectations. And I think you should check with those generals who helped train Iraqi forces on their views. There were expectations that the Iraqi forces had been well-trained by the United States and well-equipped and would not have melted away the way they did. And I think there's a pretty broad consensus that the reason they did was the failed political leadership in Baghdad, the Shia focus that al Maliki, the then-prime minister had, which gave the armed forces of Iraq nothing to fight for.

TAPPER: But this is a fair criticism --

KRISTOL: No, it's all a red herring. It's a ball - for everyone to go chase, let's debate the Iraqi forces. Syria, Syria is where ISIS got itself organized. Syria is where the threat is. Syria is where we're bombing right now. Because we say this is a threat to the U.S. Syria is where the president did intervene. That was the fundamental policy mistake. They've been wrapping themselves around the ISIL for three years saying trying to pretend that that wasn't a fundamental policy mistake.

And that, I think, is the key issue.

TAPPER: I want to - sure, you know, there's another mistake, which is the whole decision to stick with al Maliki. That - if I talk about Bush, but let's not talk about that. I want to talk about how this is all playing out on the campaign trail. Here's a campaign ad, a little clip, from North Carolina, where the Republican Thoms Tillis is running this against the incumbent Democratic senator Kay Hagan. Do we have that ad? Do we have that clip? OK, we don't have it, I'm sorry. But in any case, the ad basically says that President Obama and Kay Hagan didn't take it seriously enough. Do you see ISIS as emerging as a campaign issue that could affect the balance of power ...

CARNEY: I think that national security has obviously not been good to the president in terms of public opinion of late. And I think to the extent that people feel negatively towards the president and are taking that into account as they go to the polls in these midterms that it will have that impact on Democratic candidates. I still think, and I think polling and surveys show this overwhelmingly, most people this fall are going to vote on economic issues. Like they often do, except in those circumstances like post-911 where they perceive an existential threat to the United States.

TAPPER: All right, Jay Carney, Bill Kristol, thank you so much as always. Great conversation.

Coming up, could the recent disappearance of a Virginia college student hold clues to the mysterious death of another college student five years ago? Police say they have new evidence that may link the suspect in custody to both crimes.

Next, plus, the streets of Ferguson, Missouri, erupting in violence again as an officer is shot and several protesters are arrested. Are police expecting more violence tonight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: Welcome back to "THE LEAD." I'm Jake Tapper. The national lead now, could a man accused of kidnapping a University of Virginia student have done it before? It turns out the arrest of Jesse Matthew, Jr. for the alleged abduction of 18-year-old Hannah Graham may have led to a break in the case of a 20-year-old Virginia tech student's mysterious death. Athena Jones is live in Charlottesville, Virginia, for us. Athena?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jake. Now, so far authorities aren't getting specific about exactly what forensic evidence links Matthew to this case, this second case. But Virginia state police are calling it a significant break in that second case, the case of Morgan Harrington, the Virginia tech student who went missing in October of 2009 after attending a Metallica concert here on the University of Virginia's campus not far from here. Now, Harrington's body was found a couple of months later about ten miles away from where she went missing. And as you know by now, Jake, several young women have gone missing, several young women have gone missing from this area over the last several years. And so from the very beginning, folks around here were asking if any of these cases could be linked. And so, right now, it looks as though two of them might be. Now, police say that they're going to be investigating, pursuing this new forensic link and say there's still a great deal of work to be done so they're asking for the public's patience and they are also asking the public to keep the focus on trying to find Hannah Graham. Jake?

TAPPER: Athena, what's next for Jesse Matthew?

JONES: Well, Jesse Matthew is being held in isolation in a jail cell not far from here, and he's next set to appear in court on Thursday at 10:00 a.m. for a bond hearing, it will be his first appearance before a district court judge here. So, that's the next step for Jesse Matthew. Jake?

TAPPER: Athena Jones in Charlottesville, Virginia, thank you so much.

More than seven weeks after unarmed 18-year old Michael Brown was shot and killed by police officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri, the city is on edge once again. Several protesters were arrested last night as the manhunt continues for the suspect who shot a Ferguson police officer in the arm over the weekend, an off-duty cop also came under fire while driving his personal car. Both officers are expected to be OK. Officials do not believe the weekend shootings had anything to do with the Brown shootings or the protests but they are now serving as another example of how Ferguson police haven't been able to get it together because, according to the "St. Louis Post Dispatch," the wounded officer did not have his body camera on at the time. The department started requiring them, of course, after Officer Wilson shot and killed Brown.

Next on "THE LEAD," the suspect watched beheading videos online, he left a trail of extremist Islamic rants on Facebook. So, why are police still saying the beheading of a woman in Oklahoma was nothing more than workplace violence?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) * (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. In national news now, it is a shocking and frankly nauseating crime. Sounds like it came out of an ISIS propaganda video, but it happened in our nation's heartland.

Today, Alton Nolen, the man accused of beheading a former co-worker is expected to face first-degree murder charges. While some call this a case of workplace violence, the suspect's devolution into the world of radical Islam is hard to ignore.

When you check out his social medial footprint where he sighted and posted religious justification from the Koran for beheading people before he allegedly did just that.

CNN justice correspondent, Pamela Brown is watching this case. Pamela, Nolen clearly seems like an Islamic extremist. So I don't understand quite why the FBI is not calling this terrorism. It seems like one of the lone wolves that they themselves have been warning us about.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Just remember, you know, terrorism and workplace violence don't have to be mutually exclusive here, Jake. But bottom line, I was speaking to law enforcement officials and they tell me through the interviews with Nolen, he's telling investigators he felt oppressed at work. He wanted to retaliate for that reason.

There's no evidence at this point to suggest he was motivated to commit an act of violence through any terrorist groups including ISIS. However, his social media page is raising questions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Law enforcement officials tell CNN Alton Nolen spent time watching videos of beheadings online sometime before he allegedly severed the head of one of his co-workers and repeatedly stabbed another. He was stopped only when his boss shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: It sounds like he's running around out here. That's a gunshot.

BROWN: Just before that 911 call, law enforcement sources say Nolen was told he was in trouble at work at Vaughan Foods in part for disruptive behavior, trying to convert his co-workers to Islam.

Shortly after receiving the news, he took out a knife and allegedly started attacking co-workers at random, killing Colleen Hufford, a 54- year-old grandmother.

CNN is learning Nolen told investigators he felt oppressed at work and was upset about not getting a pay raise. Investigators believed this was an isolated active violence.

So far, they found nothing to show that he was in contact with overseas terrorists groups but did seem to share their extremist views. Nolen posted on his Facebook page showing a picture of a beheading, an image of Osama Bin Laden and several anti-American rants, one saying the Statue of Liberty is going into flames. So why are police ruling out terrorism?

CULLY STIMSON, NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Easier way from a to z, innocence to conviction is just, he killed somebody, he did it deliberately, he premeditated it, end of story, guilty.

BROWN: Over the weekend, Nolen's family came to his defense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son was raised in a loving home.

BROWN: But this isn't the first time Nolen has been in trouble with the law. In 2010, this Oklahoma state trooper got into a scuffle with Nolen during a traffic stop. After learning about Thursday's beheading, the trooper made this chilling statement to CNN.

LT. BETSY RANDOLPH, OKLAHOMA STATE TROOPER: If there had been any way to know the things that he is alleged to have done a couple of days ago, I would have killed him when I had the opportunity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So if he's convicted of murder, he faces the death penalty in Oklahoma. Remember, prosecutors don't have to prove a motive and bringing his extremist views into the mix, Jake, may be seen as irrelevant in the court of law. After all, as we heard, you just have to prove it was premeditated, there was malicious intent and he killed someone.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown, excellent reporting. Thank you so much.

Remember the guy who jumped the fence at the White House last week? We're just now getting new details from "The Washington Post" that the man not only made it into the White House, but he overpowered a Secret Service officer and he made it into the White House east room. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Breaking news now, details on the stunning security breach at the White House last week. The Secret Service admits it captured a man who made his way over the fence and inside the building.

But "The Washington Post" is now reporting that man did a lot more than just walk through the door with a knife in his pocket. CNN's senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta joins us with the details. Jim, what is "The Post" reporting?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jake, "The Post" is reporting right now, that this intruder, Omar Gonzalez, made it all the way inside the White House to the east room of the White House, which is much farther inside the White House than what was previously acknowledged by the Secret Service.

All of us were led to believe in the initial days after this story broke that this intruder made his way inside the front door of the White House, the north portico, the door right behind me and was then subdued not too long after that by Secret Service agents.

According to "The Washington Post," and they've talked to several sources, this intruder made it all the way to the east room, which is much farther than we previously knew about.

I touched base with a couple of spokespersons with the U.S. Secret Service. They are just not commenting at this point on the story. But I reached one White House official who said to me, they're scrambling to get to the bottom of this at this moment, Jake.

Quote, "He made it inside the building, but we don't want to comment at this point as to how far he got." So at this point, White House officials are trying to sync up what they know with what the Secret Service, I suppose, is revealing or is about to reveal in terms of how far this intruder got inside the White House.

TAPPER: But Jim, you're right. I mean, at least through omission, we were led to believe -- the public was led to believe he only got inside the door, not all the way into the east room. The director of the Secret Service is being called before Congress, Julia Pearson, to testify tomorrow. She's going to have a lot of questions, not only about this incident but about previous ones as well.

ACOSTA: That's right. Julie Pearson, she has definitely been under scrutiny lately, Jake, as the director of the Secret Service, not only because of this incident, but previous incidents such as the shooting that occurred at the White House back in 2011 where bullets were fired at the White House.

The Obamas were apparently very irate about that and really was concerned that their safety was not being addressed adequately. So all of this is going to be an issue tomorrow when Julia Pearson testifies in front of the House Oversight Committee. Part of that testimony will be in closed session.

TAPPER: All right, Jim Acosta, thank you so much.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. You can follow me on Twitter @jaketapper or @theleadcnn. I turn you over now to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf.