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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Dallas Nurse Contracts Ebola in Texas; Fiercest Fighting Yet in Battle for Kobani; Politicians Calling in Heavy Hitters for Midterms; Vatican Changes Tone on Same Sex Relationships

Aired October 13, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: Hi there, you're watching @THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA. I'm down a Berman but I am Michaela Pereira. Good to have you with us.

We begin with Ebola. A Dallas nurse has become the first American to contract Ebola on U.S. soil. Let's bring you up to date on what we know.

This nurse had treated Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas. He succumbed to the disease last week. Now, the CDC has interviewed the nurse several times. They believe there have been inconsistencies in the type of personal protective gear that she wore and the process used to put on and take off that protective gear.

Health officials say they will now be more aggressive in training healthcare workers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Every single hospital should be able to have the training to know what to do when someone walks in the door. What you ultimately do to take care of them over a week or two weeks should be serious consideration.

The CDC is reevaluating the intensity with which they're training. In fact, Dr. Frieden yesterday in his press conference made it very, very clear they are going to intensify the training in several important ways as opposed to assuming that hospitals are going to be aggressive in training their staff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Critics say no one should lay the blame on nurses but rather on health officials for not doing enough emergency training in hospitals.

I want to discuss this all. Joining me now, senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen and Dr. Jorge Rodriguez. Both of you have been incredible as we cover this story.

We now know that often times nurses are on the front lines, more hands on with the patients than perhaps the doctors. Elizabeth, we know that this nurse wore a mask, a gown. She wore a shield. She wore gloves. We also know this patient was in isolation. Yet she got Ebola.

So what possibly could have gone wrong? Where was the point of weakness?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, as you suggested it may be because they weren't necessarily using the right type of equipment, or maybe there were inconsistencies in the way she put it on and took it off.

I think the bottom line here is that this is not easy to do. An expert on safety at (inaudible) at Johns Hopkins says, look, safety breaches are the norm, they're not the exception, not just with Ebola but in general.

It is often hard to do these things exactly right, and that's why doctors I'm talking to say, look, the CDC ought to designate that just certain hospitals take care of these patients. It's just too hard to train every single hospital in the country to prepare to take care of an Ebola patient.

Once a patient is identified as having Ebola, these experts say pick a couple of hospitals, train them rigorously -- really, really well -- and send patients there.

PEREIRA: Or could you even fly that person? These are the questions and ideas that need to be discussed.

Maybe we can ask Dr. Jorge that. Does it seem to you that we have enough going on in terms of the so-called emergency response to this? Because we've seen a point of weakness here. I keep referring to it as a point of weakness.

We know these medical professionals are train bud how well are they trained for the onslaught of an infectious disease?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNEST: Well, Michaela, I don't think we are being trained at all. We know what universal precautions are. Most hospitals or all of them have an infectious disease committee or person that's assigned. But this is a special case.

Are people triple gloving, which they shouldn't be doing? Are they not taking it off correctly? The CDC in my opinion should have a very, very concise and strict list of how things should be done.

And here's my opinion on whether we should have only certain centers that are equipped to handle Ebola. That sounds great in theory, but Ebola is not going to choose where it's going to land.

And then here's the big question. In theory, this is great, but who's going to pay for this? If you have somebody in a very rural area, who's going to pay to fly them out?

Those are the realities of the situation. Is it going to be the families? Is it going to be the insurance? Who is going to pick up the bill?

PEREIRA: It's a big question because it does come down to that.

I want to play some sound from the nurses because nurses feel like they're sort of getting unfairly -- I don't know -- criticized here. They're saying this is not their fault, but it's a lack of proper training.

In fact, the country's largest nursing organization polled its members -- pardon me. Some 76 percent of them said their hospital hasn't communicated to them any policy about how to admit Ebola-infected patients.

I want you to take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATY ROEMER, RN, NATIONAL NURSES UNITED: We're seeing that caregivers who are not being adequately trained are being blamed, and saying that -- we're hearing that they have not followed proper protocol when we have been asking our hospitals throughout the country to provide with us training that allows us to ask questions with training about how to put on the proper and optimal level of personal protection equipment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: It's interesting. It reminds me of sort of an emergency response team, something like a FEMA, that can be sent to these so- called disaster zones when a natural emergency happens.

Dr. Jorge, it almost makes me wonder if there can't be -- and even somebody suggested it on "NEW DAY" today, the idea of like a Doctors Without Borders kind of trauma unit that could go in and perhaps even assist in the training, because that seems to be the point where we need it most so that these hospitals and nurses, these people who are putting their life in harm's way, are prepared.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, these people are already professionals. They are already trained in infectious diseases. What they need is that extra 15 percent or 20 percent that tells them what to do about this, in my opinion.

PEREIRA: Yes, and what are you hearing on the ground, Elizabeth? I'm wondering if you're feeling -- because I know this Dallas hospital has been such a focal point, and if anything -- one would wonder if anything could possibly happen now because they've had these two incidences. They're on high alert.

Are the people there, the medical staff, are they feeling confident that they're ready?

COHEN: You know, the hospital here says almost nothing. They really do not answer questions that I send to them everyday. They just put out press releases that say very little.

I think the feeling of many doctors that I've talked to -- and I'm talking about people who are tops in the field, top in infectious disease epidemiologist -- they feel to that to train every single community hospital, like the one that I'm at now, how to do this right is completely impractical.

We've been transporting patients from west Africa to the U.S. Surely we could transport someone from Dallas to Atlanta to Emory where they've proven that they know how the do this right. In the end, it actually may become cheaper.

And this concept well, they're here, we need to keep them where they are. There's really no reason for that.

If it were my husband who had Ebola, I know where I would want him to go.

PEREIRA: Yeah, and that makes a good point. You make a very good point there. Dr. Jorge? Oh, you want -- one final thought, Dr. Jorge? I can see you've got some --

RODRIGUEZ: One final point --

PEREIRA: Please. Please.

RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, I'm bursting. This is great when we have two or three or four people. God forbid that this now becomes hundreds of people. Is that really practical?

PEREIRA: These are all things to think about, but somebody has got to take the lead.

We need to know our hospitals and medical professionals around the country are feeling as though they have the latest information, not just on treatment but, as Dr. Jorge says, on how to protect themselves and not potentially infect other people as well.

Great conversation, thank you so much.

Ahead @THISHOUR, the sound of another massive explosion in Kobani, Syria, this as Syria -- as ISIS, rather, also knocks on Baghdad's door in Iraq.

Are air strikes enough, though, to stop this terror group? We'll give you a live look from the ground.

And something completely different, a personal journey. Ahead @THISHOUR, I follow my roots to Jamaica and I invite you along for the ride.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: For every moment, there's a song.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible), here I go, Jamaica is my home. I love the boys, coconut water ..

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: A crucial moment in the battle against ISIS happening right now. The city of Kobani on the Syrian/Turkish border is in real danger of falling to the terrorist fighters, a huge explosion erupting in Kobani a short time ago.

Our correspondent on the ground, Nick Paton Walsh, says that blast and several others earlier today are probably from coalition air strikes.

ISIS troops have already taken over large parts of Kobani. A U.N. envoy is warning there could be a massacre there.

Nick Paton Walsh is on the Syrian/Turkish border. He joins us now on the phone.

Nick, I think we have to get a sense from you about how dire this is right now, one U.N. envoy warning, as I just mentioned, that there could be a massacre there.

Give us an idea of what you're seeing, hearing, and experiencing there.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): What we saw from 10:00 this morning for lots of explosions, predominantly around the center of the city, behind, in fact, the official crossing into Turkey.

A number of those formed large, mushroom clouds just as there were from coalition air strikes. We had a number of jets overhead. That was subsequently confirmed by CENTCOM who put out a press release, very vague in their timing, but saying both Sunday and today there had been a total of seven strikes on ISIS buildings, cars, positions around Kobani, actually to the northeast, too, where we saw a number of those strikes, in fact, taking place, very large explosion, indeed.

Now, of course, some bad news emanates from that, given that, as we left, after we received that statement from CENTCOM, there were one or two other two potential air strikes that we saw hitting targets lightly more to the west of where they've been striking earlier on today.

Now, that's significant because coalition air strikes hit ISIS positions, and that would suggest that ISIS were slightly more west at the end of the day than they were at the beginning of it.

Very hard to divine exactly what happened in close fighting, street to street, hard to say what will happen. People have known for some time that the Kurds were running low on ammunition, day by day, on supplies, finding it hard to get fresh people into the system.

But then I should point out, too, we saw something fascinating at the end of our lens, long distance, about 50 men, it seems, seemingly unarmed, walking in single file along one street, heading in one direction, trying -- it seemed -- to run fast enough (inaudible) open ground. No idea who they were or what they were doing but (inaudible) all the orderly moves people amid the chaos of that battle.

Michaela?

PEREIRA: You see all of that chaos happening there. We heard from a Kurdish fighter, telling CNN it would be hard to hold ISIS back under current fighting conditions.

That makes me want to know what does that do to the humanitarian situation there. We know there are civilians still there in Kobani.

WALSH (via telephone): That Kurdish fighter said that effectively (inaudible) crossing into Turkey, that official border crossing fell into ISIS hands, and we think that's what the fighting was about (inaudible). That kind of makes the battle for the city over.

We've known that, really. (Inaudible) cut off. The only real way out for any civilians trapped or Kurdish fighters is a small kind of no- man's-land between the increasingly tight frame that ISIS fighters are creating around the city and a path (inaudible) where the Turkish military are along the border. That may be the only way out left.

How many are left inside? That's the real key question here. The U.N. envoy to the Syrian conflict (inaudible) said hundreds, potentially thousands as well (ph) on Friday. We just don't know. We may be talking about hundreds, though, rather than thousands.

Michaela?

PEREIRA: A hundred, a thousand, there are still live there that hang in the balance. Nick Paton Walsh, great reporting for us. Thank you for bringing us up to date on that. Obviously, we'll keep an eye on all of that as the days and hours progress here on CNN.

Ahead @THISHOUR, Hillary Clinton getting a bit of a shock. She reacts, but it's her reaction is what has everybody talking this morning. We'll break it down coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FMR UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: -- Millions of our children are at risk.

(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)

You know, there are some people who missed important developmental stages.

(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That was Hillary Clinton responding to a heckler last night in San Diego. Her response got a really big laugh. Talk about knowing your audience. Her audience was a room full of pediatricians.

The former Secretary of State, of course, is a new grandmother, she was speaking to the group about the importance of early language development. Hillary Clinton, just one of the big guns that are out now stumping for candidates across the nation.

The midterm elections, of course, only three weeks away. Voter turnout, typically low, so politicians caught in tight races are calling in favors from the heavy hitters. Like Vice President Joe Biden, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. However, the race to keep an eye on is this one. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, almost 30 years in the Senate, he is in the fight for his political life against Kentucky Secretary of State Alison Lundergan Grimes. She and McConnell face off tonight in their only scheduled debate between now and November 4. Most recently, well, kind of embarrassed themselves in public appearances. Grimes, refusing to say if she voted for President Obama. McConnell became testy when asked which Kentucky team he likes best. Take a look.

(BEGIIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Kentucky plays Louisville --

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Let me just say something. It is okay, I know it's probably not acceptable to you, as an Obama enthusiast, but it's okay to be for both Louisville and Kentucky.

ALISON LUNDERGAN GRIMES (D), KENTUCKY SENATE CANDIDATE: I respect the sanctity of the ballot box and I know that the members of this editorial board do, as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you won't answer.

GRIMES: Again, I don't think that the -- the president is on the ballot, as much as Mitch McConnell might want him to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Particularly awkward because Grimes, in 2012, was an Obama delegate. Observers, political observers, expect both of them to play it safe tonight, but you never know what will happen. We'll be watching, obviously.

A little bit of breaking news. There's a dramatically different tone coming from the Vatican on gays. The new wording says gays have, quote, "gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community." It even softened its tone on gay marriage, saying that same-sex couples offer precious support to each other.

This dramatic shift in tone, not only in policy or practice, came in an interim working paper during a two-week-long summit of bishops from around the world known as a synod. The synod began last Monday and will continue through Saturday. Called by Pope Francis to discuss the family, the synod is the first step in a process that will take at least a year and probably more, or actually it could take more than a year, and we're expecting to see them to discuss other topics, as well, including whether people that are divorced can take communion. So there are many things that we'll be watching coming out of the Vatican, but again, this is a dramatic shift in tone towards same-sex marriage and same-sex relationships.

Ahead @THISHOUR, pamphlets, phone calls, and warnings after a nurse contracts Ebola in the United States. We want to take a look at how the community of Dallas is reacting to this new case. We'll test the temperature there in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please be advised that a health care worker who lives in your area has tested positive for the Ebola virus. This individual is in the hospital and is isolated. Precautions are already in place to clean all known potential areas of contact to ensure public health.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PEREIRA: We don't want to overinflame or overpanic people, but if you got that phone call at your home, it would be a little upsetting, wouldn't it? Well, apparently that's the call Dallas residents received Sunday morning letting them know that a Dallas nurse had contracted Ebola. It came as a recorded reverse 911 call. Apparently, many people in the neighborhood where this nurse lived also, they got a knock on the door at their home from city official handing out Ebola information. A hazmat team has decontaminated public areas of the apartment complex where she lived. The one person she was in close contact with while she was symptomatic is now being kept in isolation.

I want to get a sense of what the situation is on the ground. Joining me now, via Skype, live from Dallas is radio talk show host and Dallas morning news columnist in Mark Davis. Mark, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really curious, as a columnist, as a radio talk show host, you're hearing from people. What are they saying and are they upset?

MARK DAVIS, DALLAS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST (via Skype): Well, I love all the network characterizations of our affair of metroplex here. They say it's a city on edge and there's tension and, of course, that's true. There's not panic in the streets, but we are very thoughtfully listening to everything that people are saying, especially when we get our daily CDC briefings and various local officials seeking to comfort us. And I think we're prepared to be comforted. We're prepared to be made to feel better when officials will admit how much they may not know.

God bless Dr. Frieden at the CDC, but the Sunday morning thing he had yesterday that essentially threw the nurse under the bus. It had to be a failure on her part because lord knows the protocols are fine. So from the 911 call, the reverse 911 that you mentioned, that's fine. People did not mind getting that. I'll tell you the interesting spark of reaction I got is a lot of people who got that call said okay, could you maybe tell me who she is so I can know whether I was having coffee with her at Starbucks yesterday. Then you get into privacy versus public safety. So we're humming along. We're doing well, but it's an interesting time.

PEREIRA: So is it -- I mean obviously it's in the news and in the paper and in the talk shows and et cetera., it is a topic of conversation. Do you get a sense that it is a topic at the coffee shops and in the driveways around Dallas?

DAVIS: There's little else. I mean, the Cowboys are 5-1 and Ebola is still No. . I don't mean to be flippant in any way, but this is -- a lot of times we talk about things, I do talk shows for a living and I don't know if people are out there in coffee shops and restaurants and bars talking about Benghazi or talking about Obamacare, even though they're all extremely important. But this affects people's lives in a very, very visceral direct way. And as such, people are talking about how much caution is too much caution.

We don't want to be overcautious, but we don't want to be undercautious. And as a result, people are making decisions in their own lives and that's why more information is good, more admitting from the officials in charge that maybe we're all in a learning process together.

PEREIRA: Making decisions in their own right, like what kinds of things are you hearing people are doing? I remember during some of the -- I can't remember what it was. Maybe it was SARS or H1N1, people were stockpiling serums that they thought were going to help. What are people doing in Dallas?