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Numerous Gunmen in Ottawa Attacks; Dozens of Shots Fired in Canadian Parliament Building; Canadian Parliament on Lockdown After Shots Fired; NORAD Response

Aired October 22, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now to talk about more on this situation in Canada is our Justice Correspondent Pamela Brown and our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Pamela, let me start with you. I know officials here are the FBI, other U.S. law enforcement intelligence officials here in Washington, they're closely monitoring what's going on in neighboring Canada. What are you picking up? What are you hearing?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is certainly a concern for intelligence officials, Wolf. And we've learned that the FBI is working with Canadian authorities trying to figure out if there's a nexus to terrorism here. That has not been ruled out. And, of course, that is the concern in the wake of increased chatter by ISIS members to target westerners, specifically military members and government officials, law enforcement officials.

And so, what we've learned here, Wolf, is that the FBI is raising the alert posture at field offices across the U.S., essentially telling them to just stay on heightened alert, to stay vigilant, be on the lookout for copycat incidents, and also, reminding them of a bulletin that was sent out just last week telling them to be on heightened alert in the wake of the ISIS chatter. But, again, Wolf, at this point, we do not know whether there's a nexus to terrorism and that is something that authorities are investigating as we speak.

BLITZER: I want you to listen to this and then I'm going to come back to you and, Christiane, stand by as well. Josh Wingrove is a journalist who was inside Canada's parliament building when those shots rang out. Here is how he described what happened. Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

JOSH WINGROVE, JOURNALIST, "THE GLOBE AND MAIL": Yes, I was writing a far less dramatic story than the one I've been writing since. As things went down, we heard loud bangs. I sort of looked to my left down the hallway to figure out what it was. It sounded like, you know, maybe a -- I don't know what it sounded like. It sounded like a giant bookshelf had fallen down or some -- it was a very loud bang as and opposed to sort of the subsequent popping that I heard. I don't know whether my ears adjusted or it was a different gun or whatever.

But -- you know, the smoke filled the sort of main foyer area. The police were taking cover, had their guns drawn. It was a very fluid situation. The journalists were sort of there with them. And we all sort of were moving down this hallway, it's called the hall of honor, to the library of parliament. Police had their guns drawn. There were, you know, several, several officers, at this point. And --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

WINGROVE: -- it culminated in gunfire there at the end --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- and then --

WINGROVE: -- in front of the library of parliament that ended up with a body on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

WINGROVE: And, at that point, that's when the journalists were pushed out of the way.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

BLITZER: I want to go right back to Ottawa right now. Bill Curry with "The Globe and Mail" is standing by. Bill, thank you very much. First of all, where were you when all of this went down?

BILL CURRY, PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER, "THE GLOBE AND MAIL" (via telephone): From the moment we heard -- I was in the office and heard there was an incident in the Parliament Hill and as well as the War Memorial. So, Josh was already -- as he just reported, was already on the hill so I went to the War Memorial and managed to speak with some eyewitnesses before police took them away. So, they described a short man with long black hair arriving with a rifle, shot -- shooting four shots. So, the War Memorial is just across the street from Parliament Hill, a little bit southeast, not very far at all.

And so, there was a -- an individual was shot. (INAUDIBLE) went down. He was taken away in an ambulance. The witnesses say that the shooter kind of jumped over some bushes and went running towards Parliament Hill. And then, since then, the police were just every now and then just try to expand the security perimeter that includes Parliament Hill and also the War Memorial.

And there was just a lot of confusion. And, at times, the police would start yelling and it seemed more tense for them during that whole thing and I think it's quieted down a bit. I just saw a bunch of fire trucks speeding in the complete opposite direction. So, I don't know what that is about. But, you know, a lot of confusion. A lot of rumors that then get discounted. So, we're still trying to piece it all together.

BLITZER: We're getting, all of a sudden, information from several members of the Canadian parliament, Bill. Sad news, the Canadian soldier who was shot at the War Memorial in Ottawa has died. Jason Kennedy, an M.P. for Calgary, for example, tweeting condolences to family of the soldier killed. Prayers for the parliamentary guard wounded. Canada will not be terrorized or intimidated. Are you hearing anything at all, Bill, about some sort of motive, why this happened?

CURRY: Well, I mean, before this happened, the news (INAUDIBLE) on Parliament Hill was trying to piece together the motive and the backstory of an incident that happened in the province of Quebec earlier this week in which a long-time Quebec resident who a security official saying he just recently became radicalized in heir of this extreme Islam.

Then, I guess, sat in his car for two hours waiting for members of the Canadian forces to come out and won over fatally. And so, that was the big story then, people trying to figure out, was he a lone wolf, so to speak? Were there others involved? Was it some kind of orchestrated pattern? So, these are the questions that are going to just intensify after what just happened today.

BLITZER: And the incident, earlier in the week, Bill, that was an incident Canadian authorities saying, the individual who shot and killed a Canadian soldier, that individual had been radicalized. Is that right?

CURRY: So, the earlier incident was --

BLITZER: The earlier incident in the week was --

CURRY: -- it wasn't a shooting. It was --

BLITZER: -- it was with the --

CURRY: -- (INAUDIBLE) member with his car. And then, --

BLITZER: -- but the person --

CURRY: -- they went into a -- into a high-speed chase.

BLITZER: -- now allegedly responsible.

CURRY: And then, the suspect was shot and killed by police. That was the incident that happened earlier this week.

BLITZER: So, -- but that person had been radicalized, right?

CURRY: That -- well, that's what officials said, yes. The announcement on our national (INAUDIBLE) put out a statement saying to that effect, saying that they're monitoring him. And then, it was recently, I think October 9th, they had actually visited with him to talk about, you know, some of the things that he's been posting on the Internet, that kind of thing.

But I think that one official was saying, you know, you can't arrest somebody for having certain thoughts, you can't take any action. The police were left with the impression that he was going to tone things down I guess. So, there will be a lot of questions about how much officials knew about that first individual as well.

BLITZER: Yes, because the Royal Canadian Mounted Police put out a statement Monday after that vehicle attack which it was -- and they said, when they went to arrest this guy -- Martin Rouleau-Couture, when he was arrested, he was about to go to Turkey. The police said there, we stopped him as he was about to leave Canada for terrorist actions. He was questioned when he was arrested.

We have not been able to determine any real threat at that time. That was what they said then. So, we have no idea, I just want to be precise on this, Bill, if that earlier vehicle incident, that vehicle attack earlier in the week may have any connection to what has happened today. Is that right?

CURRY: There's been nothing, no reports suggesting any link at all other than the sequence of events. Earlier this month, the Canadian government did say that they had a watch of 90 individuals that they had said that, perhaps, were interested in going to Syria or Iraq or had just come back. People that they thought perhaps they were watching and that they were watching. And then, they did say in sort of a (INAUDIBLE) this week, was one of those 90. So, there was a watch list that had this information that just became public a few weeks ago.

BLITZER: We're showing our viewers, Bill -- Bill Curry is joining us with "The Globe and Mail." We're showing our viewers the video from inside the Canadian parliament which is now on lockdown. Now, they've obviously tried to get everyone out. We see police. We see law enforcement. They are going through the building. I suspect they believe there may be a shooter or shooters still at large? Is that right, Bill?

CURRY: Yes. Well, that's the thing. We're trying to piece together information. And so, -- you know, you -- clearly, the police think somebody's at large and they told me as much a couple of hours ago. There has been reports suggesting there may have been as many as three shooters. But, you know, nothing that has been clearly stated or concerning, at this time -- at this stage. It's also not quite clear, too, if there was something that happened beyond the parliament buildings in the War Memorial. That's what we're trying to piece together as well.

BLITZER: And the parliament is very, very close to the national War Memorial, right?

CURRY: Yes, that's right. It would be about a five-minute walk from the front door of center block and it's right across the street from the east block which is kind of a side building. So, yes, it's very much within walking distance.

BLITZER: Yes, we're showing the map of the Canadian parliament building, the national War Memorial. And the third shooting incident occurred at this -- what is it, the Rideau Centre? Is that how you pronounce it?

CURRY: Well, yes, that's where we're getting conflicting reports because I was just outside of the Rideau Centre and I don't -- as far as I know, from this information, is there was not, in fact, a shooting there. I think there was a mistake, in terms of people referring to shootings near the Rideau Centre because the Rideau Centre is just another block further east of the War Memorial.

As far as I can confirm, the Rideau Centre mall was under lock down immediately and all of the workers there -- it's under construction so all the workers I spoke with had been told to leave. But I haven't been able to confirm that there was a shooting at the Rideau Centre. And as far as I can tell, I've seen many reports clarifying that that was not, in fact, the case. So, --

BLITZER: All right. So, maybe there was just two shooting incidents at national War Memorial and at the Parliament Hill which are very -- as you say, a five-minute walk between each other. No one, I take it, has claimed responsibility, right?

CURRY: Not that I'm aware of. And, of course, I'm not on the scene, right, so I'm not watching online or on television so I don't know what else has been said beyond what's happening here.

BLITZER: We do know from U.S. officials, they say, at least so far, key words, so far, they have no indication that there were ties to violent Islamic extremism. But they also point out, this is extremely, extremely early in the investigation. Canada has been with the United States in stepping up this air campaign, this air war against ISIS and ISIS in Iraq and Syria. What's been the reaction in Canada to the Canadian government's cooperation with the U.S. and other coalition partners in this new phase of this war against ISIS?

CURRY: Well, it's been an interesting political debate here in Canada because there's three main parties in parliament. The conservatives have the majority, the governing party. But they put the issue to a vote. They're sending -- Canada is sending about six (ph) warplanes and some other support help to the military efforts. There's a combat role and the two opposition parties, the MVP and the liberals, the liberal being the party that tends to go back and forth with the government in Canada. They made the decision not to support the military intervention. They wanted to support the U.S.-led coalition into more of a humanitarian role.

So, it was -- it was a politically divisive issue whether or not to get into this or not because the liberals were in power when they decided not to join the mission in Iraq in the first place. And so, they've got that kind of political history there. And so, people have been kind of weighing in the political implications (INAUDIBLE) of the decisions of the various political leaders on that issue. But this is probably going to change the dynamic considerably on Parliament Hill.

BLITZER: Yes, I know there's deep concern here in the United States about Americans going over there and training and working with ISIS, other radical groups, and coming back to the United States. And I know there is similar concern in Canada as well. I want you to stand by, if you can, with us. Bill Curry at "The Globe and Mail." Stand by.

I want to bring in our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, you're watching what's going on in Canada. It's pretty frightening. I want to just caution everyone, there is no evidence, no one has claimed responsibility yet. We don't know who was responsible. We don't know why this is occurring. But, clearly, there is deep concern over what's going on in Canada right now. Give us some thoughts of what -- as you see what is going on, Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly. And as Bill Curry was just telling you, this vote in parliament to support the U.S. military strikes against ISIS was opposed by some political parties. But about 64 percent, according to reports, of the Canadian people do actually support that limited combat role against ISIS.

One of the things that the Canadian authorities are having to deal with is the number of Canadians who are actually going overseas to fight in various extremist groups in various different places. They say, a minister of immigration recently announced in Canada, that some 30 Canadian citizens are fighting in Syria, about 130 fighting elsewhere. And they have announced plans to invalidate passports of these people who have gone away.

So, this idea of homegrown citizens being radicalized by what's been going on in Syria has now, you know, crept up in Canada, according to these ministers. We have absolutely no idea whether what has taken place has got anything to do with that.

But just since we're talking about ISIS and the war on ISIS, the challenges that western and democratic countries are facing in the radicalization of the troubling numbers of youths is something that all authorities keep looking at and home-grown terror is, obviously, something that all authorities all over the world are very, very closely watching and monitoring.

BLITZER: All Right, Christiane, I want you to stay with us because, obviously, we're going to continue to watch the breaking news. But Chris Goldrick, of the CBC in Ottawa, is joining us right now. Chris, first of all, where are you? What are you seeing? What are you hearing?

CHRIS GOLDRICK, JOURNALIST, CBC (via telephone): Well, at the moment, I'm in our newsroom in Ottawa about a block away from Parliament Hill and about -- also about a block away from the War Memorial where the shooting first happened around 10:00 this morning. Our building is in lockdown. There's police on the streets. Citizens in the downtown core are being told to stay in place, basically, stay off the streets as the -- as the police move throughout the core trying to find who they believe may be another gunman that's on the loose.

BLITZER: Do they suspect one gunman may be on the loose or multiple gunmen?

GOLDRICK: Well, one gunman has been confirmed killed by security staff on Parliament Hill. They do believe there's another gunman at large at this moment. The latest reports, there's a large mall that's in the downtown area here in Ottawa called the Rideau Centre and it's believed that that gunman was there. We're not sure exactly what is happening there at this point, but he may be on the run.

BLITZER: All right, so the suspicion is two gunmen, one dead, one still on the loose. And did both gunmen go to both of these locations, Parliament Hill, as well as the war memorial, or did one do it at parliament, the shooting, another one at the war memorial?

GOLDRICK: Well, let me run you through the detail. We'll just circle back for one second.

Around 10:00 I was down -- arrived on -- at the war memorial just seconds - or seconds - probably minutes after the first shooting occurred. And what happened, according to eyewitness testimony, there were many tourists there taking pictures. Two soldiers on ceremonial guard at the war memorial. A gunman got out of a car, it's believed, and walked sort of briskly but methodically towards one of the soldiers. And with a long gun, it's believe to be a shotgun at this point, fired at least one shot it sounds like into the chest of the soldier. And just moments ago we were able to confirm that that shoulder now has died.

From there the gunman ran -- it would be about 200 yards to Parliament Hill - entered Parliament Hill. There was an armed standoff with several security personnel on Parliament Hill. And from what we understand, the sergeant at arms, who's in charge of security on Parliament Hill, fired and killed the gunman on Parliament Hill.

And then, well, from there, it sounds like there is a separate - well, there is a separate gunmen, but it's not confirmed where he is at this point.

BLITZER: And you - the suspicion is he may be at that shopping mall in downtown Ottawa? Is that what you said?

GOLDRICK: Yes. That's the - that seems to be the last reported place that, you know, that this happened. Apparently there was pandemonium there not that long ago, people running, screaming. And - but at this point we're just not quite sure what has transpired there. What I can tell you is that all schools and government buildings are on lockdown. There are bridges. There's a river runs right beside Parliament Hill that connects Ontario with Quebec, two provinces. They're their main arterial roadways in this community and they've been shut down. So there's a heavy police presence. And basically the city is in lockdown at this point.

BLITZER: And I just want to be precise on this, because it's obviously very sensitive, Chris Goldrick of the CBC. The CBC is reporting that that Canadian soldier was shot and killed. We don't have that yet. But tell us, have they put out an official statement? How do you - how do you know --

GOLDRICK: Yes, they have. Yes, the House of Commons, our government, has released a statement. One of our cabinet ministers, Jason Kenny (ph), tweeted that out. But then that information -- we didn't go with it right away, but now it has been confirmed by government sources and made public that the soldier has died. He, the soldier, what we know about him is that he was with the regiment based out of Hamilton, Ontario. From what I understand, soldiers from various regiments take turns staffing the war memorial and it was this -- that's why he was there at that time. BLITZER: A very sad story indeed. A very, very sad. Our deepest,

deepest condolences, obviously.

If you don't mind, Chris, I want you to stay with us because you're there, you're on the scene. Chris Goldrick of the CBC.

We'll take a quick break. Much more of the breaking news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's go right to the White House. Josh Earnest, the press secretary there, talking about this shooting incident in Canada.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: To the family of the solider who was killed earlier this week.

The president was briefed early today in the Oval Office by his top homeland security advisor, Lisa Monaco. The details about the nature of this event are still sketchy, which is not unusual in a chaotic situation like the one - like this one.

Canada is one of the closest friends and allies of the United States. And from issues ranging from the strength of our NATO alliance, to the Ebola response, to dealing with ISIL, there's a strong partnership and friendship and alliance between the United States and Canada. The United States strongly values that relationship and that relationship makes the citizens of this country safer.

Officials inside the U.S. government have been in close touch with their Canadian counterparts today to offer assistance. That includes officials here in the White House. We have been in touch with the Canadians about arranging a phone call between the president and Prime Minister Harper at the prime minister's earliest convenience. He, obviously, is dealing with a lot today. But as soon as we can arrange that call, we'll let you know.

So, with that, Nedra (ph), do you want to get us started with questions?

QUESTION: Yes. Thanks for that, Josh.

And can we talk about the announcement that's coming out of the CDC that there will be 21-day monitoring of people coming in from West African countries?

BLITZER: All right, so there you have the official from the White House. Obviously very, very early in this investigation, but the White House saying President Obama will speak with the Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, shortly. They're arranging that phone call. There's obviously a very, very close, collaborative relationship, law enforcement relationship, intelligence, military, political, diplomatic relationship between the United States and Canada. So they're working together on what is going on.

We're also getting word, by the way, that NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, is actually increasing its alerts after the Canadian parliament shootings earlier today. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, is joining us now.

Barbara, what is NORAD exactly doing now?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf.

CNN was the first to report this. NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, which, of course, is a joint U.S. and Canadian military command, earlier this morning, shortly after this happened, raised its alert status.

What does this mean? What they have done, I am told, is move a number of aircraft closer to Ottawa and this could lead to the possibility of putting up one of those combat air patrols over Ottawa. All of this is aimed at putting everything in place to be ready if they perceive a threat to Ottawa air space. In a chaotic situation like we are seeing in Ottawa, this is a very typical military response. They want to have aircraft nearby. They want to put aircraft in the air at a moment's notice, given the fact that they don't exactly know what is going on.

What they are not telling us is if that combat air patrol is already up in the air patrolling the skies over Ottawa. It's a very typical military response in the years after 9/11. I suspect that they already are planning to put aircraft in the air. We have seen it over Washington, New York, Boston many, many times. This is what they do.

What we know is that Canadian and U.S. military officials are now in constant contact about the situation through NORAD, talking to Canadian military officials, Canadian law enforcement, sharing all the information that they have. Top officials here at the Pentagon also being briefed about the unfolding situation.

Wolf.

BLITZER: And as we - as our viewers now, the U.S. embassy in Ottawa now on lockdown as a precaution. The Canadian embassy, by the way, here in Washington, D.C., also on lockdown, right on Pennsylvania Avenue, not far from Capitol Hill. Once again, as a precaution right now.

Barbara, I know you're working your sources. We'll get back to you.

Let's bring in Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California. He's a key member of the U.S. House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: You bet.

BLITZER: I know you've been speaking with your staff on the intelligence committee and others. What are you hearing about what happened today and earlier in the week, for that matter, in Canada?

SCHIFF: Well, obviously, there's been chatter for some time. ISIS encouraging people to undertake self-radicalized attacks, low tech or high tech, they don't care as long as western targets are gone after. We don't know yet, as you point out, Wolf, whether this was a terrorist-inspired attack. But if it was, it's certainly consistent with what ISIS has been urging. So I think FBI taking some prudent steps today to raise alert among the FBI offices and make sure either from a copycat attack perspective or because of this chatter it's a very prudent step.

BLITZER: And a lot of our viewers hear that word "chatter." They're not exactly sure what that means from the intelligence law enforcement military perspective. What does that mean?

SCHIFF: Well, that means basically that in addition to ISIS in its videos and propaganda urging these kinds of things, we, either through signals intelligence or may human intelligence, pick up people within the jihadi circles talking about, there's an attack coming or they may use code terms for that. But depending on the veracity of it, depending on how much we're able to verify, depending on the sources of it, depending on the volume of it, it can raise alarm bells here at home.

BLITZER: And so presumably that so-called chatter resulted in Canada increasing its threat level last week?

SCHIFF: Yes, I'm sure that had a big part in this and, obviously, if it turns out that terrorism is the motivation here coming so close on the heels of an attack two days ago in Canada, that will only further raise alarm bells in Canada and here at home.

BLITZER: And the suspicion is because Canada is supporting the United States with these air strikes against ISIS targets in Syria and Iraq?

SCHIFF: Exactly. And this is something that, Wolf, we've been concerned about for some time, and that is the potential of these home-grown attacks, using very low-tech means, not hard to get weapons either here or in Canada, and to utilize them, you know, to damaging consequence as we see. So very hard to protect against this. Intelligence is really our best defense against something like this, but even intel, obviously, isn't perfect.

BLITZER: And we don't know what the cause or what the motivation was for these attacks today and earlier in the week in Canada, but there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of suspicion it could be what Matt Olson (ph), now the former head of the U.S. Counterterrorism Center, when he told our own Jim Sciutto, our chief national security adviser, yesterday they were deeply concerned about these lone wolf, self, if you will, mobilized, energized terrorist who may just decide, inspired by the Internet, to go ahead and undertake these kinds of operations.

SCHIFF: Well, that's exactly right. I mean if you had to diagram out what are the most approximate threats to the country, you would probably put the lone wolf attacks, low-tech lone wolf attacks right in the bull's-eye. Then, you know, more distant, you would say, an overseas, organized attack on the homeland. And probably the most distant threat is, you know, sort of a massive 9/11-style attack. But while these are not as damaging as that massive 9/11 attack, nonetheless deeply distressing and could result in a loss of life, as we're seeing in Canada.

BLITZER: Because on Monday we did see this vehicle attack killing a Canadian soldier and then now, two days later, we see these other attacks going on in the parliament, as well as in the national war memorial. So the two suspicions I have, and I want you to weigh in if you could, either they're connected, or if they're not connected, they could be potentially copycat or they could just be separate incidents. We don't know yet. But those are the suspicions, those are the theories.

SCHIFF: Absolutely. And we'll find out, I think, in very short order. It may be that the two are completely unrelated, except that the subsequent attack may have been inspired by the earlier attack, or they may have decided to literally pull the trigger on today's attack because of concerns about increased security after the attack a couple of days ago.

BLITZER: You haven't heard anything about the U.S. elevating its threat level?

SCHIFF: I haven't. And, you know, I think there's been a real effort since the color-coded terror alert days to make sure that when we do raise the threat level that we're giving people specific information about what they need to guard against, rather than just sort of heightening people's anxiety. But I think the steps that the FBI is taking, that NORAD may be taking, these are prudent things.

BLITZER: Out of an abundance of caution, as they like to say.

SCHIFF: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Congressman Adam Schiff, thanks very much for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: I want to bring in CNN's Paula Newton. She's normally based in Ottawa, knows the area very well.

You know this Parliament Hill where the National War Memorial is and you heard one of the reporters, Canadian reporters, tell us a few minutes ago, Paula, that there was concern one of the shooters may still be at large at this shopping mall in downtown Ottawa. Set the scene for us.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The shopping mall is, of course, still in lockdown. That entire downtown core is in lockdown. They are saying there were several gunmen, as we've been repeating, and that means that they cannot be sure of exactly what is still going on.