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CNN NEWSROOM

Gunman Connected to Jihadists; Canada Hails Parliament Sergeant-at-Arms as Hero

Aired October 23, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you so much. I'll take it from here.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We begin this afternoon with that deadly shooting near Canada's parliament. And let me just begin with this man who is being hailed a hero.

These are brand new pictures we have for you today showing the top cop, the sergeant-at-arms, Kevin Vickers, in the moment after he shot and killed that gunman.

Today really just a moving tribute in Canada's parliament. Tears from Mr. Vickers himself and a standing ovation from those members of parliament, many of whom say they owe their lives to this man's bravery.

How about that?

Canada's prime minister adamant about returning to business as usual.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN HARPER, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We will be vigilant but we will not run scared. We will be prudent but we will not panic. And as for the business of government, well, here we are in our seats, in our chamber in the very heart of our democracy and our work.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We are also now learning a plain clothed constable detailed to parliament security was shot in the leg. His wound is not life threatening. But before the gunman made his way into the halls of parliament, he had already killed Corporal Nathan Cirillo.

Cirillo was shot in his back as he was standing guard at that War Memorial.

As for the gunman, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, we now know he was already on the radar prior to the shooting with ties to jihadists. He converted to Islam. His passport confiscated by Canadian authorities when they learned he planned to fight overseas.

Our CNN's Ana Cabrera is live for us today in Ottawa. And, Ana, you were just inside of parliament. You have new video to

share for us and more details as far as what exactly happened.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was amazing to be walking in those halls where a little over 24 hours ago, Brooke, we do know there was a shootout and ultimately this lone gunman was shot and killed before claiming another life.

I want to first set the scene here where we are. We are just in front of that National War Memorial where it was that Nathan Cirillo, the corporal who is just 24 years old, a father, someone who had an infectious smile, who loved animals, lost his life at the hands of Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a 32-year-old, as you just mentioned, convert to Islam who had jihadist connections.

Now we know after he took the life of Corporal Cirillo, he ended up going across the lawn just over our shoulder here is also the Parliament Building. The capitol of Canada where all of the members of parliament, the prime minister presides. We know they were meeting at that moment when this man, this gunman, came barging through the doors.

We had a chance to get inside there. It's also the hallway where we saw Vickers come walking down carrying that golden mace today. Apparently that mace is a symbol of authority of the queen and he was doing his daily duties today just like any other day with this speakers parade before parliament got back into session.

So by all accounts it was very much a day like any other inside those halls. But what we learned happened there again a little over 24 hours ago was that this gunman came barging through the doors. He was immediately confronted by security who chased him down the hallway, this House of Honor they call it, where both caucuses were meeting just feet away behind other doorways.

He ran all the way to the end to where there's a library area. It's an arched area. An area where he was able to hide behind a pillar of sorts. And it was while he was hiding that Mr. Vickers, the sergeant- at-arms, responded very quickly. He was in his office some 30 feet away or so. And he grabbed his gun, we're told. Came out of his office, crawled along the exterior wall inside this little -- this little area where he was able to get in a position to take a shot at the gunman, where he eventually fired several shots killing Zehaf- Bibeau we now know.

We're told by several members of parliament coming back today that they really do owe a lot of lives saved to Mr. Vickers but they also commended the entire security team who responded quickly and with great bravery in order to protect those members of parliament including the prime minister who again was just inside one of those caucus rooms at the time when Zehaf-Bibeau broke through the doors -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Pretty stunning and emotional moment, I know, in parliament especially when Stephen Harper says -- spoke and a standing ovation.

Ana Cabrera, thank you for that.

As far as the man who the sergeant-at-arms took down, we're getting a little bit more about this gunman. According to investigators here, that gunman had, quote, "connections to other jihadists" within Canada who shared this radical Islamist ideology, and now we know that both Canada and the United States had heightened security after hearing jihadi chatter prior to yesterday morning's shootings.

Joining me now from Washington, our senior Washington correspond Joe Johns.

And so, Joe, what are we learning? What are you hearing from your sources as far as this gunman's movements and ties to these jihadists?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. Not a lot more than what you reported there. What our colleagues here at CNN reported that Michael Zehaf-Bibeau did have ties to jihadist. They shared a radical ideology. As far as we know, though, there was a lot of chatter but just chatter without any specificity.

Intelligence officials have been warning law enforcement and the military to be on heightened alert for lone wolf attacks especially with the emergence of al Qaeda, we knew about that, ISIS and other groups in the Middle East.

People in the intelligence community are saying the thing that makes this type of attack so difficult to guard against, Brooke, is the aspect of impulsive behavior. You don't know where, you don't know when, you don't know how it's going to happen and the results can be catastrophic.

BALDWIN: Well, you know, when you think about security there on Parliament Hill, there have been a lot of questions and I know you just talked to the former sergeant-of-arms who shared his concerns with you. What did he say?

JOHNS: Right. Well, he's talking a lot today about putting a fence around the United States capitol. Terry Gainer is the former Senate sergeant-at-arms who left the job back in May, now in the private sector. He said the lone wolf is just about the number one concern. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRANCE GAINER, FORMER SENATE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: I think that's been the constant threat that we've had here at the White House and throughout various locations. The FBI and our international partners are doing a great job of keeping track of state-sponsored terrorism but it's this radicalization or self-radicalization of locals or people who are just simply off their medication or ought to be on medication that causes us some concerns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So why are they so hard to track? Sources in the intelligence community pointing out today or at least making the case that part of the reason why it's harder than ever to track potential lone wolves is that their hands have been died by the revelations about electronic surveillance, by the NSA leaker Edward Snowden.

And Brooke, they say the use of predictive analytics especially call chaining or linking the contacts of a person of interest in a terror investigation through the telephone calls they make is still considered a useful tool in preventing attacks but at least here in the United States very hard to justify that so far, Brooke.

Perhaps a real debate in Canada as well now about civil liberties among these lines.

BALDWIN: Joe Johns, thank you.

And the chilling onslaught in America's northern neighbor also raising new fears of militants possibly sneaking onto U.S. soil from Canada. So just with that in mind, I want you to look at this.

The Canadian border close to three times as long as U.S. border with Mexico has some 2200 border agents along it. That is a fraction of the agents assigned to the Mexico border.

So with me from Washington to talk about that, Kimberly Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst.

So, Kimberly, the former CIA deputy director we heard this, this morning. And this made our -- you know, made our ears perk. Mike Morrell. He said he is more worried about who comes across the Canadian border than the Mexican border.

Have you -- have you heard that concern prior to everything we've learned about ISIS?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, you know, U.S. counterterrorism officials in every major congressional hearing that I've been to over the past four years, five years, have always brought up lone wolves as one of their major concerns.

The reason Mike Morrell brought up Canada is Canada has a large Muslim population, more so than Mexico, and therefore -- especially as it's a very open society perhaps with greater freedoms and protections of some of its citizens, it may be harder to track a terrorist or would- be terrorist in their territory than here. So you can see where Morrell was coming from.

The problem with this Canada shooting is that it's getting ISIS exactly what it wants, which is attention, recruiting.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DOZIER: And it's helping drive a wedge between the non-Muslim or -- and Muslim community or it could if -- it depends on how we respond.

BALDWIN: You make an excellent point. And then when you look just at the sheer numbers of people in Canada, say, versus United States, we know that Canada has acknowledged that in August, there were 130 Canadian citizens who have gone abroad to join these terrorist groups.

That being the case with possible threats from the north, would that increase here as those fighters -- obviously the big concern when you talk to a lot of these experts, it's not just them going over, it's them coming back.

DOZIER: Yes, I've got to say that is a valid concern and yet the more immediate concern of some of the folks that I've been talking to is that this could be inspirational for citizens within this country who feel disenfranchised, who wanted to be some part of the Islamic militant fight and are watching the controls tighten up.

Those three young girls who wanted to join the Islamic militant effort in Syria, they got caught. So what the Canada shooter example may be telling them is why go overseas with minimal effort? You can get a lot of attention right here. One of the ways that officials hope that Americans will start being more vigilant is that they'll be not fearful but more watchful in public spaces, and that -- you know, that they start thinking of security not just as a government responsibility but as their own responsibility.

BALDWIN: I think your point earlier about sadly a win for some of these jihadists, it's the inspiration factor and it's working obviously for a number of people.

Kimberly Dozier, thank you so much.

Now this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM CIRILLO, UNCLE OF CORPORAL NATHAN CIRILLO: No one deserves to die at a young age or whatever. But he didn't deserve that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This is the uncle of that soldier who was killed. He is sending an emotional message from this family. We will play that for you. You have to hear this man speak.

Plus, we will talk to the man who drew this cartoon that has everyone sharing today. You will hear the story behind it.

And another explosive leak from the grand jury in Ferguson. This time half a dozen African-American witnesses reportedly backing up the police officer's account. Hear why they didn't come forward publicly.

Stay right here. This is CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The uncle of Canada's fallen soldier broke down in tears as he described his beloved nephew, Corporal Nathan Cirillo. The 24-year- old was shot to death yesterday when standing guard at Ottawa's War Memorial and Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

His uncle says Cirillo's mother is shattered by her son's killing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CIRILLO: She called me. She's saying she doesn't believe it. And I says -- and I told her yes, it's true. My son just called me. And so she went on the Internet and she saw it and she's -- I don't know how she didn't pass out. She's just completely broken right now.

He wasn't dealt a good hand when you say in card, Nathan. Someone like Nathan and his two sisters, they're -- they're beautiful kids and when my brother left to go to Costa Rica, I always tried to get my brother to come back and face the kids and just tell them that you love the kids and that this has nothing to do with them. It's between you and his mother just not getting along so he never did that.

And now for him to sort of get shot and pass away, I -- I don't know if life is fair. I know no one deserves to die at a young age or whatever. But he didn't deserve that. I don't know how someone could have picked him out and just -- and just did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Cannot imagine what this family is going through. Our hearts and thoughts go out to them.

The mayor of Cirillo's hometown visited the family. He says the fallen soldier's funeral is expected to include full military honors.

Just ahead, 43 college students suddenly disappear and now a former mayor is suspected of orchestrating their kidnapping. These stunning details coming up.

Plus an explosive new leak from the Ferguson grand jury. A report indicates seven or eight black witnesses coming forward backing up that police officer's account. Does that change everything?

Also what the new autopsy results will tell us. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A standing ovation for Kevin Vickers, the sergeant-at-arms responsible for shooting and killing that gunman in Canada's parliament Wednesday. Vickers today being hailed a hero, as we've been reporting, getting his fair due at Kennedy's House of Commons.

I want to you watch this emotional tribute.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

HARPER: Mr. Speaker, I'd be very remiss if I did not conclude in acknowledging specifically the work of the security forces here on parliament and the great work of our sergeant-at-arms. (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And Mr. Vickers' heroic efforts even more overwhelming after watching this here. You can see the sergeant-at-arms, gun in hands, patrolling the halls of parliament after yesterday's terrifying shooting.

And from the procession this morning Vickers largely silent among the colleagues who really owe their lives to him. Many of them agree with that. He has released a statement. Let me just read the first graph to you. This is from the sergeant-at-arms himself.

"I'm very touched by the attention directed at me following yesterday's events. However, I have the support of a remarkable security team that is committed to ensuring the safety of members, employees and visitors to the Hill. Yesterday during extraordinary circumstances, security personnel demonstrated professionalism and courage and I am grateful to be part of this team."

His brother, John Vickers, joins me now by phone.

Mr. Vickers, this is your big brother we are talking about and just seeing the prime minister there speaking about him this morning, seeing your brother almost looked like he was weeping after yesterday, how does that make you feel?

JOHN VICKERS, BROTHER OF KEVIN VICKERS: You know, it's -- yesterday was a very emotional day and I thought he was a little bit more controlled today until he walked into the House of Commons and received that response.

As a family, we're just very, very proud and it doesn't surprise me that his initial response is to thank those all around him. He's a team guy. A team player. And we're just tremendously relieved that he wasn't injured in all of that yesterday and we're very proud.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. Have you or your mother or other siblings had a chance to speak with him in the last 24 hours?

VICKERS: Yes. Well, a lot of text messaging. I have another brother who is a school teacher up in the northwest territories who had received a text that he was fine and we also -- we all hail from Miramichi, New Brunswick, up in the Atlantic coast, the opposite of where I am at, and he was in touch with our mom to let her know that he was OK.

There were quite a few media reports in the early going that he had been wounded in the lower extremities, and it came after a few hours -- it came as a relief once we did hear back from him and that everything was OK.

BALDWIN: You know, John, you call him a team guy. I know he was a Mountee. He was a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for some 28 years before becoming the sergeant-at-arms. And I've heard you talk about how, you know, it's so important for him to protect country, protect community, but growing up with him, I mean, how long ago did you know he had this sense about him?

VICKERS: Well, you know, Kevin was always -- even in his youth, was always a visionary and a spectacular individual who treated all of those who he came in touch with, with respect. And over the course of his career, our father had a milk dairy back in New Brunswick where he and I used to drive milk trucks along with another brother going in the university days in the summer and he was always very, you know, the type of respect that you see for Kevin and some of the members of parliament, I can remember the milk truck drivers talking about him that way when he was 17 or 18 years old.

So that's been Kevin's MO for much of his -- for much of his life for sure.

BALDWIN: Sounds like you all have come a long ways since the days of driving milk trucks.

VICKERS: That's right.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Thank you so much for coming on. And I hope you and your family get to catch up in person and get some calm very soon. Thanks for calling in. We really appreciate it.

Seventy-five days after Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed an unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, Ferguson, Missouri, looks like this.

Some of these protesters hurling not just curses but bottles at police. Officers on guard. The city on edge. And some witnesses reportedly trying to do what they can to stay out of the picture.

This is new today from "The Washington Post," quote, "Seven or eight African-Americans eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson's account but none has spoken publicly out of fear for their safety."

So let's talk about that development and also we're learning -- what we're learning from the St. Louis paper as far as this autopsy goes.

CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin as well as forensic pathologist Dr. Vincent Dimaio who was chief medical examiner in the San Antonio area.

So welcome to both of you.

And Sunny Hostin, first to you, just from the news from "The Washington Post" this morning about these witnesses backing up the officer's account. How does that hit you?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think what's remarkable, first of all, is the grand jury proceedings, Brooke, are supposed to be secret. Disclosure is prohibited.

BALDWIN: Leak after leak after leak. HOSTIN: Exactly. Disclosure by the prosecutor, any of the

prosecutor's agents like investigators, and disclosure by the grand jury is prohibited. And so it is remarkable that we are getting these leaks.

What's also remarkable is not a single leak has been unfavorable to Officer Wilson. Not a single leak. And so when you look at what the Justice Department came out with, the Justice Department came out with very -- a statement very clearly saying that they didn't consider these leaks. They considered these smears on Michael Brown.

And so I think we should all be extremely concerned about the leaks and I think we should also be extremely concerned about the fact that it appears that the prosecutor's office hasn't even taken the leaks seriously. They haven't even been investigating these leaks. And so I think it's sort of much to do about nothing, what's being reported, because I don't know that -- you know, there are dozens and dozens of witnesses that have testified and the only thing we're hearing again are leaks that are favorable to Officer Wilson.

What about the six witnesses that have come forward very, very clearly, not leaks, but six witnesses that said Michael Brown had his hands up in a -- in surrender when he was shot.

BALDWIN: Point taken. Point taken.

HOSTIN: And so I'm just -- I'm outraged actually. Outraged.

BALDWIN: I hear -- I hear you on that. And so that was from "The Washington Post".