Return to Transcripts main page


Unrest in Ferguson; Terror in Canada; Ebola in New York?; New Video of Gunman Storming Parliament; Leaks Lead to New Tensions in Ferguson; Democrats' Unlikely Secret Weapon

Aired October 23, 2014 - 18:00   ET


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Escalating clashes between protesters and police as tension grows over whether the officer who shot and killed Michael Brown will be indicted. Who is behind the investigation leaks that have outraged the Justice Department?

We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. I'm Brianna Keilar. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: We are following breaking news, gripping new video of the attack on the Canadian capital showing the gunman storming Parliament as new details emerge about his jihadist connections.

Also, a doctor who just returned from West Africa is now in isolation in a New York City hospital showing signs of Ebola.

We are covering all of the breaking news this hour with our guests and our correspondents, as well as CNN's Anderson Cooper. He is in Ottawa with the latest on the terror attack there.

Let's begin though with that possible Ebola case in New York City.

CNN's Poppy Harlow is there.

Poppy, this is just developing now. What is the latest that you're hearing?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we know at this hour, Brianna, is that the patient that is being treated and tested here at Bellevue Hospital in New York City is a 33-year-old doctor named Craig Spencer. He lives here in Manhattan.

He is a doctor at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. But he spent time in Guinea recently treating Ebola patients. He returned to New York just about 10 days ago. We know that he started showing symptoms of a very high 103-degree fever in the early morning hours today, though he had felt sluggish in recent days.

We know that he called the FDNY this morning, had them come to his apartment full hazmat suits, et cetera, to transport him to the hospital. They sealed off his apartment. He had symptoms of nausea, fever, aches, but it's also important to note these are symptoms that are also in line with other diseases like malaria, like a very severe stomach flu, also like salmonella.

They are doing testing right now. They are working with the CDC, which is sending officials to New York City at this hour. We are told by the mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio, that we should know within hours, possibly very late tonight, the results of that test.

I also want to point out the mayor said this patient had contact, direct contact with very few people. That is good news. He also said the patient is in -- quote -- "good condition" and he said -- again, officials have said, Brianna, they have put his girlfriend in isolation at this hour just to be extremely, extremely careful.

But I cannot emphasize enough, we do not know if this is a case of Ebola. We know it is potential at this time. They are doing tests and New Yorkers should know that they should not be concerned at this time, the New York City Health Department says. There's a very slim chance of New Yorkers being able to contract Ebola. This is a test ongoing at this hour.

KEILAR: Yes, slim chance, but certainly this is a case, potential case being treated very seriously. Poppy Harlow for us outside of the hospital there in Manhattan.

I want to bring in now Miguel Marquez. He's outside the home of the Harlem home of Dr. Craig Spencer.

What are you seeing there, Miguel?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you there's a slew of public officials here in the neighborhood who are checking to make sure that no one has come in contact with him, and if they have, they want to know their information.

If this test comes back positive, everything then springs into action here. The apartment here in the building behind me has been sealed off completely. It will remain that way until that test comes back. As Poppy mentioned, his girlfriend has been put into isolation now.

And residents are being handed these cards by the Health Department that has basically blanketed the area both in Spanish and in English telling people precisely how it is that one can get Ebola. There was a council member in the area as well saying he was going door to door in this area, reassuring individuals that it is a difficult disease to get and they don't know what the situation is.

He went to shake one person's hand. The person refused to shake his hand because he was concerned that he might get Ebola. There's a lot of misconceptions and a lot of concern among people in general. I can tell you that we met two people who live in the building, one of them who knows Dr. Spencer, who says, look, this is a guy who you would want as your next-door neighbor, a really great guy, somebody that everybody liked in the building. And neither of those individuals who live here said they are

particularly concerned. They understand a lot of folks work in the health care industry here. Columbia Presbyterian, where Dr. Spencer works, is just about 20 blocks north of where we are. So people are pretty well-versed on how this disease spreads and how it works.

Even the people living in the building even on his own floor weren't particularly concerned. But everybody wants to know whether or not that test comes back as positive -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly concerned about their neighbors, their neighbor there. Miguel, thank you so much, at this doctor's apartment building.

I want to get more now.

Let's bring in CNN medical analyst Dr. Xand van Tulleken.

So, Doctor, talk to us about this time frame that we're seeing. It's been about 10 years -- or pardon me -- 10 days since Craig Spencer returned from West Africa. Is that the time frame that you would expect to start seeing symptoms here?

DR. XAND VAN TULLEKEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think if we are talking about Ebola, the average incubation period, we have been saying 6.3 days. Over the recent epidemic, it may be a little bit longer, up to something like 12 days, so he is within that period.

It's really important, as the other correspondent there, to emphasize that when you're in West Africa, the odds of you catching Ebola are much lower than the odds of you catching anything else. He has been, at least according to what we know at the moment, exposed to Ebola patients, so that's the reason for the heightened concern.

But I think what we're already seeing is this massive fear around Ebola. That's part of the problem of the Ebola epidemic in the U.S., because actually the risk is very low of catching it, but the alterations in people's behaviors, in people's patterns of working, people's ability to commute, people using hospitals, that's what we should be concerned about changing.

KEILAR: Yes. And certainly I think people consider this to be such a risk because he is a health care worker, and we're seeing the CDC now dispatching people to New York.

The specimen is being sent to Atlanta for testing, so you can see the CDC is really taking control there. When you see the CDC getting involved like this, how do we read this?

VAN TULLEKEN: I think we're seeing a very different response here to the kind of response we saw in Dallas.

Already, we're seeing very, very intense communication with neighborhoods, we're seeing the apartment and his girlfriend being isolated immediately. And it seems like his transport to the hospital has been done with a huge amount of care and he's already under close monitoring.

I think it seems like the CDC has really ramped up their efforts and a lot of the behavior that is being undertaken, some of it will be Bellevue's own initiative, but that will be guided by the CDC as well.


KEILAR: Sorry. Go on.

VAN TULLEKEN: The thing that is so concerning here is not only do we have a doctor that's taken out of circulation from his work in an American hospital in West Africa, but this also really drives the human resources crisis in West Africa.

The only way we control Ebola and the only way of reducing risk for people in New York City permanently is to roll back the epidemic in West Africa.

KEILAR: No, certainly a very good point, Dr. van Tulleken.

Let's talk about this hospital that Dr. Spencer is at. It's one of eight that has been designated in New York by Governor Cuomo as part of the Ebola preparedness plan. What do you know about this hospital and how ready they are to deal with something like this?

VAN TULLEKEN: So they have been undertaking Ebola drills and preparation in a much more detailed way for a while now.

And actually what they have is dedicated teams who will be isolated from other patients. They have the right equipment, so equipment that is following the kinds of protocol that Doctors Without Borders have been using in Africa rather than the -- until recently, the less adequate CDC protocols.

They have got special dedicated rooms. It's not just about training and procedures in dealing with the patients. It's about a systems approach. So when he arrives, he needs to be transported through the hospital in a way that doesn't contact him with other patients. And then the other staff members dealing with him need not be with other patients as well.

So Bellevue is very, very much better equipped to deal with this than Dallas Presbyterian was.

KEILAR: He alerted authorities this morning that he was experiencing these symptoms that are in line with Ebola. And yet last night we know he took basically an Uber cab, a taxi.

He took this cab to Brooklyn to go bowling. No doubt you're hearing a lot of people say, you know what? We don't think there's really a risk here, but certainly everyone is operating on the side of being conservative about this. Between last night where he's not feeling symptoms but he's out and about, and then this morning, should there be any concern from people who are around him?

VAN TULLEKEN: I think there are two different groups of people who could potentially be concerned.

One is the general public, and I would say the risk to them is absolutely zero. I would not be worried about going to Bellevue Hospital if I had an appointment there today. I would not be worried about getting into an Umber cab in the city, even if I knew it was his Uber cab.

I think the risks are extremely low. But the people who should definitely be worried are the public health authorities. They should absolutely be contacting that Uber driver and they should be cleaning the cab and they should reaching out to anyone who he could possibly have had contact with.

I think what we saw, Nigeria has been just declared Ebola-free. One of the ways they did it was by very aggressively contact tracing. They actually -- they went to 26,000 homes to chase down the potential contact of the index case of Ebola there. That's the kind of thoroughness we need to be undertaking here.

The net does need to be cast wide, but for the general public, and I would say I live in his neighborhood, it's a hospital I would use in town. I don't think anyone should be changing their behavior.

KEILAR: That's a really good point.

I wonder. One of the things that stuck out to me, though, was Doctors Without Borders says Dr. Spencer followed protocols. He didn't self-quarantine. That's something that is sort of elective, if you will. Should he have, do you think? Should he have waited and really kept himself away from people? We know he had close contact with his girlfriend when he came home. Should he have self- quarantined?

VAN TULLEKEN: Doctors Without Borders has been the only organization, really the sole organization responding to the Ebola epidemic for most of takes epidemic.

They have treated thousands of cases and they had 21 infected staff and about half of them have died. I think they have had 11 deaths. So it's not -- and they have dispatched more than 300 expatriates and they have employed more than 3,000 national staff.

So we're talking about very small numbers even within MSF in terms of the risk of being infected. Should he have been self- quarantined? I think with hindsight you can say maybe coming back from that region, he should have done.

The trouble is that people give up their lives to volunteer for these jobs. This kind of humanitarian work is the work that keeps everyone in America safe. It's not just that he's doing good work in Africa. He's literally keeping us safer from Ebola.

So the massive disruption to his life from time off, low salaries, all the difficulty of that work, to add in 21 days of isolation, self-quarantine, that's a big ask. Remember, Doctors Without Borders have already got a massive, massive problem with human resources.

The charities I work for, similarly, we have money to go to the Ebola epidemic. What we don't have is the people. So it's really difficult to impose these demands on people. I think he's probably managed his risk very sensibly and it seems the first real sign of trouble, that he's picked up the phone and called exactly the right people. So, no, I would not hold him -- I would not say he's put anyone at undue risk.

KEILAR: Dr. Xand van Tulleken, thank you so much for your expertise on this.

I want to get now to Ottawa. That's where CNN's Anderson Cooper is. He has more on the breaking news there -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Brianna, thanks very much.

Chilling new video has emerged of the attack on the Canadian capital showing Michael Zehaf-Bibeau running inside Parliament with his weapon. There are also breaking new details today about his alleged radical beliefs and online communications with some people who also share those beliefs.

CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto is working the story for us. He brings us up to speed with the latest.

Jim, what have you found out?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, several important steps forward today in the investigation.

Canadian police say the suspect, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, may have held extremist beliefs himself and confirming information we reported earlier today, that he engaged with known extremists in Canada, including a man charged with traveling to Syria to fight for a terrorist group and, crucially, police believe that Bibeau himself wanted to do the same, but when authorities blocked him, that's when he carried out this attack. All this as we see this chilling new video of the attack as it happened.


SCIUTTO (voice-over): Newly released surveillance video shows the attack on Parliament Hill as it happened. Suspected shooter Michael Zehaf-Bibeau is seen here running from a car after he had shot and killed soldier Nathan Cirillo at the war memorial. Bystanders looking, and then fleeing in fear.

As he approaches the Parliament building, he hijacks a member's car, the driver seen running away. Another camera catches him as he runs into the Parliament building with police in close pursuit.

BOB PAULSON, COMMISSIONER, ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE: vehicles on site chased the suspect to the entrance of Center Block. The suspect entered Center Block at 9:53:46, seconds before the RCMP officers that were chasing him were able to reach the doors. I would like to acknowledge the response of RCMP members,

parliamentary security members and the Ottawa police officers who rushed into a dangerous and volatile situation.

SCIUTTO: Now investigators are learning new details over of what motivated the attack. Police say Zehaf-Bibeau is believed to have held extremist views and they say he engaged with known Islamic extremists in Canada via the Internet. Sources tell CNN they include this man, Hasibullah Yusufzai, a Vancouver native who traveled to Syria to fight with the terrorist group. Charged in July, he's still at large.

PAULSON: We do have now information that suggests an association with some individuals who may have shared his radical views.

SCIUTTO: U.S. authorities are now investigating if Zehaf-Bibeau had any communication with suspected extremists here in the U.S. He is known to have visited the U.S. several times. And even before Wednesday's shooting, in a second attack by car on Monday, the U.S. was on alert for so-called lone wolf attacks by Islamic extremists.

The unique danger of lone wolves is they're difficult to spot. They do not need to enter the country from abroad, where they could be caught at immigration and they do need to communicate with operational leaders abroad using tools like e-mail or telephones.

This makes it much harder for intelligence gathering agencies such as the NSA to track them. While they're not aware of specific threats, the former director of the National Counterterrorism Center told us U.S. authorities are watching both the southern and northern borders.

(on camera): Did you ever see anything that worried you about who is trying to come across U.S. borders either via Mexico or Canada?

MATTHEW OLSEN, NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM DIRECTOR: Always concerned about our two land borders and worked closely with those countries, Mexico and Canada. But there was never anything that I saw that suggested ISIS had had an effort to infiltrate.


SCIUTTO: While Canadian authorities were aware that Bibeau wanted to travel to fight in Syria, he was not on a list of 90 Canadians under surveillance. Police say they're monitoring that list with increased vigilance now. Canadian authorities are also investigating if he received support for his attacks from others. They have, however, identified no connection between the shooting attack on Wednesday and the killing on Monday of another Canadian soldier.

Anderson, you will remember when he drove his car into that soldier, no connection.

COOPER: All right, Jim, appreciate the update. Thanks very much. I want to bring in a member of Parliament, David McGuinty, who

joins us here.

Thanks very much for being with us.

First of all, how is the city doing today? You represent part of the city.

DAVID MCGUINTY, CANADIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I do. I have tens of thousands of constituents, Anderson, who are down here working in these buildings, public servants, business people, big high-tech sector in the region.

They're struggling. This is a big shock for a city like Ottawa. About a million people. We haven't seen this kind of thing before. People are asking a lot of questions.

COOPER: A particular shock given it comes just two days after another soldiers was hit with a vehicle and killed.

MCGUINTY: Absolutely. The two deaths have really, really rocked Canadians' world here.

Deeply concerned. Of course, condolences, a big ceremony this morning in the House of Commons. I think everyone is heartbroken.

COOPER: We're standing right in front of the war memorial where Nathan Cirillo, the soldier, was killed yesterday. The new video that has been released, where you actually see the gunman running into the Parliament area, as you look at that video, it certainly raises questions about security.

That conversation is now being had. It's been had here before, but I would imagine with renewed vigilance.

MCGUINTY: Totally.

Today, we asked a number of prohibitive questions of the government, including the fact that there are about 90 people under watch or more, we learned today, and just a week ago, our deputy director of our national intelligence services told us they didn't have the resources to do their job.

We're going to continue asking about that. Or we asked again today about roughly 80 Canadians who have been outside of Canada participating in terrorist activities in foreign settings who have come back. And we're asking are they going to be prosecuted under existing criminal code provisions?

So there are a lot of really important questions here to get to the bottom of this. And we will do our job as legislators.

COOPER: Do you feel that you understand the issue well enough of radicalization here in Canada?

MCGUINTY: No. COOPER: It's something all countries are now grappling with.

MCGUINTY: We're all struggling with this, Anderson. It's a whole new phenomena.

I can't connect any of these dots. That's not my job. You have got experts who can help you with that. But I think we're going to have to really examine how individuals go from one personality to another and find out what transforms them and how to deal with this easier.

The head of our RCMP was saying, for example, we need Canadians' help, we need citizen's help everywhere to identify these personalities that go rogue. When they go rogue, how do get them back on track so they can be good and productive citizens?

COOPER: The other thing Canada has always prided itself is on the openness of its democracy. The Center building and Parliament Hill just a few blocks from here where the shootings took place yesterday, there is yoga in the summer out on the lawn. I have seen the pictures.

And that's a remarkable thing. It's something we don't have in the United States. We're used to metal detectors and areas cordoned off. Do you think that's going to be a new reality here? Because you look at that video, he was able to run up the steps into the building, though he was being chased. There weren't barricades stopping him.

MCGUINTY: That's exactly what we're going to try to protect against. We don't want to turn our Parliament Hill into fortress Parliament.

We want to achieve that balance between safety, security and human rights and personal freedoms and liberty. It's a tough, but I think we can do it. By the way, for anybody that wants to come up and visit in Ottawa and join us for yoga, they're welcome any time.

COOPER: I got to say it's among the politest cities I have ever been in. The people are really extraordinary.

Do you worry though that this will sow distrust, that this will change something essential in not just in the city, but in this country?

MCGUINTY: It's shaken citizens here in the city and it's shaken the country. People are just coming to grips with what's happened. There's a bit of a time lag, and so we're now getting a lot of volume of feedback from our constituents, and they're just asking questions, how could this happen? Why would this happen? What's next?

Was our security strict enough? What do we have to do to improve this? How do we achieve this balance between keeping our Parliament buildings open and accessible?

COOPER: You were in Parliament today where honor was paid to the sergeant at arms who really stopped this gunman, shot this gunman and it's extraordinary.

I was in Parliament earlier today. It's extraordinary how close he got to the prime minister. Whether he knew it or not, it could have been much, much worse.

MCGUINTY: Could have been, and fortuitously, I suppose, it just didn't happen. But it was a very moving ceremony today in the House. All partisanship was set aside. Political parties didn't mean very much. We came together, because we just we know we have to keep this democracy working, keep our institutions moving forward.

COOPER: And you hope that all sides coming together, that lack of partisanship, you hope that continues?

MCGUINTY: Absolutely. We hope it continues in terms of improving the situation, both in Parliament Hill and across Canada.

COOPER: I appreciate your time today. Thanks you so much. Thanks for all you do.

Brianna, let's send it back to you. We will have more from here in Ottawa coming up shortly.

KEILAR: Anderson Cooper, thank you so much.

We have much more on this breaking news ahead. Questions of possible intelligence oversights ahead of the attack on the Canadian capital. Plus, the breaking news on the possible Ebola case in New York City and the doctor being tested for the virus right now.


KEILAR: We're following breaking news.

Dramatic new video showing the gunman storming Parliament in that attack on the Canadian capital.

Also, our sources and police are now saying he may have held extremist beliefs and had connections with people who share them.

Let's dig a little deeper on this with the former Senate sergeant at and U.S. Capitol Police chief. Terry Gainer, he's now a security adviser with the security firm Securitas. We're also joined by CNN counterterrorism analyst Philip Mudd. He's a former CIA operative. And we have CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen.

Phil, let's talk about this first. The shooter, Michael Zehaf- Bibeau, he was not on this list of 90 individuals that the RCMP was monitoring. What we know is he had come to their attention, right? So why wasn't he on the list?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: You have got to look at this as risk management.

If you're following 90 people, in my old world at the FBI and the agency, following 90 people is very difficult. You're talking about their communications, their houses, where they work, their cars, their friends, their family, their kids. Think of that over 90 people over years of time.

So you have to grade the threat. If you have someone in terms of threat who only reaches a grade of talking to somebody on the Internet, in my old world, believe it or not, despite what we saw in Ottawa yesterday, that is really low grade. That is concern, but nowhere near getting to the level where I will spend the resources to follow him around.

KEILAR: So then just in trying to renew the passport, maybe doesn't reach the threshold, which is sort of alarming, I think, Peter, and really shows you the threat here. Let's take this to the U.S., because we're thinking if this can happen in Canada, obviously this might be able to happen in the U.S.

We heard the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, talk about how these lone wolf threats are such a priority for President Obama and for the administration. How safe are we from something like this on U.S. soil?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: In the last five years, we have seen lone wolves attack in the United States.

Carlos Bledsoe killed an American soldier at a Little Rock, Arkansas, military recruiting center. He had come to the attention of the FBI to some degree. But he managed to carry out this attack. Similarly, Major Nidal Hasan, he was a classic lone wolf, he did reach out on the Internet to a known extremist. It was known within the FBI.

But he managed to get through and he killed 13 people. The whole point about lone wolves is they tend to operate by themselves. It's not a group. If you have a group, it's easier to intercept communications or you have an informant.

But a lone wolf -- the good news is lone wolves are only capable of a certain amount of damage. There's a natural ceiling to what one person can do. If you're part of a group, you can do something very big. It's a problem -- the problem is lone wolves, but in some sense, it suggests the problem has been managed, because we're not threatened by large-scale conspiracies as we were on 9/11, and we're really concerned about these lone wolves who their abilities are not enormous.

KEILAR: Phil, when you have someone like this man who is looking to renew his passport, presumably to go and fight overseas and you're having people whose passports are revoked when that's their goal, doesn't that in a way encourage them from trying to terrorize really no matter where they are, and when they're stuck in their home country, that's where they're going to commit acts like this?

MUDD: I think we will find some common characteristics, like those you're talking about, Brianna.

That is somebody who was frustrated about what he could not do overseas. We're already seeing some initial clues. Let me give you one. To persuade somebody from Canada or the United States to kill civilians is a stretch for most terror groups.

It's much easier to persuade them to kill what they see as a military target. That's much more defensible in Islam. So you have someone who is very sort of emotionally motivated, recent convert.

You notice in the instances Peter talked about, the United States, attacks here on military facilities, here on Monday, an attack on a military officer, yesterday, attack on a military target. So I think one of the things you're seeing from someone frustrated that he can't fight overseas is pursuing not a civilian target, but a military target here at home.

KEILAR: Terry, last night -- this happens yesterday. Last night, we see another fence jumper at the White House.

In a way, it was sort of a blip because of what we were seeing in Canada. And, certainly, the man who jumped the fence reportedly has had mental issues and certainly that may be the motivation here. Didn't get very far, but it really does make -- get to that question of, how safe are we here in the U.S.? And when you have official buildings here in Washington, how safe, you know, are really our elected officials? How safe is the president?

Look at what happened last night, and what was your assessment of the success of stopping that individual?

TERRY GAINER, FORMER SENATE SERGEANT AT ARMS: Well, the Secret Service, the uniformed Secret Service and the agents performed very well. The fence is not meant to be the be all. It's to slow people down to give people on the ground an opportunity.

As we're talking about here, the lone wolves, the last defense against that is a uniformed officer. So the process that the officers go through around the Capitol or the White House is a very serious one. So there's all sorts of barricades and things, all sorts of intelligence, but if it's going to come down to a shootout, a run, and chase and tackle, that's a tough duty.

KEILAR: You say it's the last line of defense. What strikes me, though, is you know, whether it's TSA at the airport or it's Secret Service at the White House or security guards at parliament in Canada, that's supposed to be the last line of defense. A lot of times the first line of defense in detecting suspects is intelligence chatter.

But isn't, in a way -- aren't these authorities, Secret Service at the White House for instance, they're supposed to be the last line of defense, but when it comes to lone wolf issues, aren't they in a way sometimes the first line of defense?

GAINER: Well, in that case, you're correct. So I guess they're the last one and the only one at that point that has an opportunity to stop these offenders. And that's why, I think, again there's tremendous pressure on these men and women around these institutions like this to make that snap decision. You recall after Mrs. Kerry was shot up on Capitol Hill, there

was criticism of too much use of force. When the person got into the White House, there was criticism of too little force. And I think that's the dilemma that an officer has, in a matter of seconds, in an environment where we know there could be terrorists, suicide bombers, for them to make the right decision with the small set of facts that they have.

KEILAR: Yes. It is very difficult, certainly. Terry -- Terry Gainer, thank you so much.

Peter Bergen, thanks so much for being with us.

Phil Mudd, as well. Really appreciate your insight.

And just ahead, escalating violence and tension in Ferguson, Missouri as a series of investigation leaks fuel the anger of protesters.

Plus, that breaking Ebola news. A New York City doctor is in isolation. He's being tested for the virus. Now his girlfriend is under quarantine. We'll get the latest on that story.


KEILAR: Just ahead, we will have more on our breaking news. That possible Ebola case in New York City.

But let's turn first to the new tensions and violent new protests in Ferguson, Missouri. Continued leaks from the grand jury investigation are raising questions about just what happened when a police officer fatally shot unarmed teenager Michael Brown.

Joining me now to talk about this, CNN's Don Lemon; CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin; community activist John Gaskin; and CNN law-enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

John, you've been watching this all along. You've been on the ground in St. Louis. There were so many protesters in the streets of Ferguson last night. There were seven people arrested, a lot of police were assaulted by rocks and bottles. From where you're looking at this, is this a situation that's getting out of control?

JOHN GASKIN, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: Well, you know, with the leaks, people are very, very agitated. They see it as egregious, unethical, and obviously orchestrated. And so, you know, you've got a community that already does not trust law enforcement, that was told from the very beginning that this process would be highly confidential until the end of the investigation.

And now you have leaks that appear to be coming out every day. You have a community that is very, very upset about it, and really wants answers as to who in the prosecutor's office or who from the Justice Department is leaking this critical information?

KEILAR: And that's the question right, Jeff? Where are these leaks coming from? You've got leaks that are coming out about forensics that sort of paint a picture of the officer's story and his certain -- certainly, his allegations about why he used the force that he did, why he killed Michael Brown.

When you look at that, Jeff, what does this say about the legitimacy of this grand jury?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I don't think we can say that this grand jury is discredited because they're leaks. We're journalists. We look for leaks; we want leaks. This is what we do. It is not proof of what the grand jury has found.

I think it's a big mistake to conclude anything about what happened in Michael Brown's death based on these leaks. We're getting very piecemeal information.

At the same time, leaks are not an excuse to throw rocks and bottles at the police. Yes, people are upset, but you can't throw rocks and bottles. It's against the law, and it's the wrong thing to do; and the leaks are not a justification.

KEILAR: But Tom, aside from the throwing of the rocks and bottles, which certainly is not OK. I mean, obviously, that's not behavior that protesters should be engaging in. We've also seen a video that is showing a police officer pointing a gun at a protester while cameras are rolling. I mean, you're seeing some things that are kind of reminiscent of what we saw nine weeks ago. Why is it still going on?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it's unfortunate, but I think, you know, the police become afraid when people start throwing rocks and things at them. When that kind of confrontation escalates, then the police bring their guns up and, you know, it just -- it escalates on both sides. It can snowball, and it's a dangerous situation.

I agree with John: It's egregious; it's illegal; it's terrible that grand jury information is being leaked out. I don't actually think it's being orchestrated or the authorities are doing this on purpose. I think, as Jeffrey mentioned, it's journalism. People -- "The St. Louis Post-Dispatch" reporters are talking to somebody who's trying to impress that reporter with how much they know and "Oh, I'm in the know." And that's how leaks come out in these kind of cases. And it's unfortunate.

KEILAR: Don, let's talk about those leaks. You have seven or eight witnesses to this shooting, and they have provided to this grand jury a description that really seems to back up Officer Wilson's account. This is according to a "Washington Post" report, and these witnesses, according to "The Post," are black witnesses. I mean, when you look at that, do you think that we might be in for a surprise here the day that we hear those grand jury findings?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Yes, to the last part of your question, I do think that we're in for a surprise. Well, not really, because all along we said it's going to be very tough to indict the officer, any officer in this particular situation. So I don't know if that part is going to be a surprise.

But getting back to what you said. You said it's "The Washington Post" reporting. "The Washington Post" is a great paper. This is not CNN's reporting. These are only sources. Someone -- a source said this is what a witness said. Until I see it on paper, I'm going to give it, you know, the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

And in the same vein, the witnesses that have come forward, yes, they're witnesses. I think that they're credible witnesses, but anyone on this panel will tell you, even Jeffrey, that eyewitnesses are notoriously, sometimes -- they're notoriously unpredictable and unreliable. And so you have to take that with a grain of salt, as well as what the officer's saying, because he's going to defend himself.

KEILAR: And are we only getting -- are we only getting a piece of the puzzle here? That's also the question. Thanks to all of you, Don, Tom, John and Jeff. Really appreciate it, guys.

We have some breaking news next. We have new details of a New York City doctor who's showing symptoms of Ebola, returned just a few days ago from Africa.


KEILAR: We are following breaking news.

A doctor who just returned from West Africa now in isolation in New York City, showing symptoms of Ebola. And we have a photo of him to show you.

This is from his Facebook page. This is Dr. Craig Spencer, he's 33 years old. This is what he posted when he was in Brussels, Belgium, on his way to Guinea to work with Doctors Without Borders. This is something he posted to show his friends asking them to support medical personnel who are trying to deal with this epidemic in West Africa.

Again, that is Craig Spencer there, 33 years old. This was taken -- would have been weeks ago we presume before he went to West Africa to try to help out folk there is suffering from Ebola.

Let's get more now with CNN medical analyst, Dr. Xand Van Tullekan. He's joining us now.

I want to talk to you a little bit about some of the assurances, Xand, that we heard coming from the mayor of New York City. This is what Bill de Blasio said. He was giving updates on Dr. Spencer a short time ago.

Here's what he said.


MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY: We can safely say, it's been a very brief period of time that the patient has had symptoms and, obviously, the fact that the patient is a medical doctor makes this a particular situation where he was quite aware to quickly get in contact with the authorities upon feeling that there was a problem. Our understanding is that very few people were in direct contact with him.


KEILAR: So, the mayor there downplaying the risk here, Xand. But at the same time, and, certainly, we know that this doctor was at tremendous risk compared to the average person here in the U.S., because he was in the zone, he was dealing presumably with many people who had Ebola. But he was in contact with some people in New York City. His girlfriend has been quarantined.

How concerned and really which people should be most concerned about having had contact with him?

DR. XAND VAN TULLEKEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Look, we heard a lot of public health authorities trying to reassure us over the last few weeks that it's not that contagious. At the same time, we've seen nurses get infected wearing protective gear. So, this is a really, really important thing to say.

Mayor de Blasio is absolutely right. The general public are at exceptionally low risk. I mean, vanishingly small risk of having it caught. Even if you're at the bowling alley, even if you took the Uber car that he took home afterwards, immediately after, the risks are vanishingly low. At this stage, he has relatively little -- if he has Ebola, he will have relatively little virus in his body and it doesn't sound like he has any prolific symptoms.

KEILAR: Yes. And certainly, he reported to authorities the first time that he had symptoms. Stick with us. We're going to talk more about this on the other side of the break. We'll be staying on top of the story, this Ebola scare in New York City.

We have much more breaking news coverage ahead.


KEILAR: We are less than two weeks from election day, but you won't see much of President Obama campaigning for fellow Democrats. Many were afraid that his unpopularity might rub off on them.

But there's one unlikely Democratic star who's just popping up everywhere on the campaign trail. And CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, sat down with her. We're talking about Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren.

A must-get interview, you got it. What did she tell you?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we had some fun in Colorado the other day. And, Brianna, while everybody else seems to be whispering about her future, Elizabeth Warren made it very clear to me that for now, she's just working on 2014, trying to keep Democrats in control of the Senate. But the more she's out there -- and by the way, she's out there a lot -- the more speculation there is about Elizabeth Warren and 2016.


BORGER (voice-over): She's a Democrat in demand on the campaign trail.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: It's about making sure nobody steals your purse on Main Street or your pension on Wall Street. That's what we believe.

BORGER: Rallying the party base in states where the president and his dismal approval rating are not welcomed -- as in Colorado, with endangered Senator Mark Udall.

WARREN: You, Mark, me, all of us, that's how we're going to build the future. We do this together.

BORGER: Senator Warren is an unusual Washington phenom. A combination of loyal soldier and inside agitator -- a party star who takes on her own party.

WARREN: What the Democrats have to do is be willing to stand up and fight.

BORGER: They're not --


WARREN: You know, I just think we could use a little more of that. I think we could use a little more of standing up and saying this is what it is about. And I'm willing to do it.

BORGER: She's willing all right, and always has been.

Complicating her relationship with President Obama whom she manages to praise just before slinging arrows his way.

WARREN: If President Barack Obama had not been in the White House, we wouldn't have a consumer financial protection bureau. This is an agency that has forced the biggest banks in this country to return more than $4 billion directly to people they cheated and that's been in just three years.

BORGER (on camera): But I hear a "but" coming.

WARREN: Of course, there's a "but" coming because there's another half to do this. They also choose an economic team and when the going got tough, the economic team chose Wall Street. They protected Wall Street over American families. And that's just something that I think is fundamentally wrong.

BORGER: You've also said in the past that Hillary Clinton is somebody who has likewise protected Wall Street. Do you think she is still too close to Wall Street? WARREN: Look, I have said I worry about everyone who is too

close to Wall Street. When I describe what this race is about, and it's about who does government work for -- I worry everywhere.

BORGER (voice-over): Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Clinton, although warren has urged her to run. Today, Warren is all about selling her own populist message, and on the road, she comes across loud and clear.

WARREN: When conservatives talk about opportunity, they mean opportunity for the rich to get richer and the powerful to get more powerful.

BORGER: She's become the liberal's anti-Hillary and the Republicans' poster child for government run amuck.

WARREN: Barack Obama squared his shoulders, his feet and stood firm.

BORGER (on camera): There are some that say you energize Republicans as much as Democrats because you are so left-wing, liberal, populist.

WARREN: Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, because I believe we should have a higher minimum wage, because I believe that women should have access to birth control, because I believe that the United States government should not be making tens of billions of dollars in profits off the backs of our kids on student loans, because I believe Social Security shouldn't be privatized -- that's what I believe in. That's what I'm out there fighting.

BORGER: And does that have an appeal in a red state like West Virginia?

WARREN: You bet. It has an appeal everywhere that there are working people.

BORGER (voice-over): She said that's the winning Democratic agenda for this year and beyond.

(on camera): And do you think if Hillary Clinton is the nominee, she can make that case?

WARREN: You know, what I care about right now what we are focused on in 2014.

BORGER: That's not a yes.

WARREN: This is the key election. 2014 is right in front of us and we shouldn't take our eye off the ball.

BORGER: OK, but I didn't get a yes or a no to that.

WARREN: You know, I just want to be clear -- this is about the 2014 race. BORGER (voice-over): She is determined not to look beyond. And

while her supporters want the 2016 door open, she just wants everybody to stop talking about it. Really, stop.

(on camera): So, why not think about running?

WARREN: I'm not running for president.


WARREN: I am not running for president. I am not running for president.

BORGER: But if Hillary didn't run, you might give it a shot?

WARREN: I'm not running for president.

BORGER (voice-over): But she is on a run to her next state, 15 in all, campaigning for other Democrats, at least for now.


KEILAR: You know who else once said he wasn't running for president was Barack Obama. So --

BORGER: Right. I'm not running for president.

KEILAR: So, how real are those noes?

BORGER: Well, she clearly wants us to take no for an answer right now because she wants to focus on 2014, but she's out there in 15 states, Brianna. Very much in demand, has a group of people in the Democratic Party that want her to challenge Hillary Clinton. Personally, I think it is still a stretch.

Does she want to close the door completely? I bet not. But you heard her -- no, no, no, no -- until, by the way, maybe it's not. So, you know, we'll have to see.

KEILAR: Good to have options in politics.


KEILAR: Gloria Borger, thank you so much.


KEILAR: Remember, you can always follow us on Twitter. Tweet the show @CNNsitroom and be sure to join us tomorrow in THE SITUATION ROOM. You can watch us live, you can also DVR the show, so that you don't miss a single moment.

I'm Brianna Keilar. Thank you so much for watching us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.