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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
CDC Releases New Guidelines for Health Care Workers; Georgia Announces Ebola Quarantine for some Travelers; Baltimore Hospital Evaluating Possible Ebola Case; Controlled Ebola Monitoring for Returning U.S. Troops; 5 Year-Old Child Tested Negative for Ebola; Police H.S. Shooter set up his Victim with Text; ISIS Releases Video of British Hostage; Former U.S. Soldier Battles ISIS
Aired October 27, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER AC360 HOST: Good evening. Again, a lot of breaking news on Ebola and it heated debate over how best stop it in this country.
Add issue, whether quarantining all healthcare workers coming back from West Africa is simply playing it safe or could actually be self- defeating. There's a lot of discussion, a lot of mix messages, a lot of people with legitimate concerns but also plenty of unfounded fear.
An example, new CNN polling just out tonight, show that 93 percent of Americans do not believe that a family member will be infected over the next few weeks. It makes sense, sounds hopeful. The flip side is that 7 percent, that's millions of people all across the country believe it will happen to their family and that someone close to them will catch the virus.
Something medical expert say is really, truly, extremely, unlikely. At the same time no elected official wants to be the one who could have stop the case of Ebola or fail to do with of plenty of people, those 7 percent, those millions would consider enough. Now that's the backdrop.
It's why a nurse, arrived in last week in New York was put immediately into isolation even though she showed no signs of infection of any illness.
Controversial new guidelines in New Jersey and New York mandated it. By today, they were relaxed. At the same time, Georgian post guidelines of its own and so did the Pentagon. And the debated heated up everyone from the President to probably your friends and neighbors joining in.
So we begin this hour with the debate and Jim Acosta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House today slammed Governor Chris Christie and Andrew Cuomo for going too far in their new quarantine policy.
Christie first offered no apologies.
GOV.CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: I think this is a policy that will become a national policy sooner rather than later.
ACOSTA: But then he freed Nurse Kaci Hickox after she protested her confinement in a tent at a New Jersey hospital.
CHRISTIE: I didn't reversing any decision. Why you saying I reverse the decision? If she was continuing to be ill she have to stay. She hadn't had any symptoms for 24 hours. And she tested negative for Ebola. So there was no reason to keep her.
ACOSTA: White House officials refuse to say whether they were over consulted.
JOHN EARNEST: WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What I'm telling you Jim is that I'm going to be in a position to detail all of the phone calls.
ACOSTA: And they would not say whether the nurse's rights were violated.
EARNEST: Her service and commitment to this cause is something that should be honored and respected. And I don't we do that by making her live in a tent for two or three days.
ACOSTA: Despite new CDC guidelines on how to deal with those returning healthcare workers, the Obama administration is leaving it up to the states. Some already stepping forward to come up with their own policies.
EARNEST: ... people intense they can do that. Well, subject to the laws of these individual states. What we hope and what we think has been true in the vast majority of circumstances is that this kinds of policy decisions should be driven by science.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jim Acosta joins us now from the White House. And yet now the Pentagon seems to have their own policy here.
ACOSTA: That's right. The army decided that they wanted to at least put in sort of a quarantine situation, some soldiers returning from West Africa and that's happening right now. And separately and a part from that Anderson, the Pentagon is looking an overarching quarantine positive that they may put into place all of that adding to the confusion that you're seeing coming from the states where you might have the situation or you might have 50 states with 50 different Ebola quarantine policies.
The CDC tried to come out with some guidelines earlier today to sort of show a shining light of the states as to what they should do. They have a lot of governors out there and you handed out this earlier Anderson, who just want to go farther than the federal government. And the White House acknowledge earlier today. They really don't have the power or the capacity to force the states to follow the CDC guidelines.
And so for now, it's really going to be a patchwork hodgepodge approach from this White House.
COOPER: All right. Jim Acosta. Jim thanks.
More now in the science and controversy of public health challenges such as this one. Challenges that are coming from Governor Cuomo's own advisers, 12 of them to be exact. All of them part of Mr. Cuomo's HIV/AIDS Task Force, signed a letter protesting that governor's Ebola policies.
Peter Staley is one of those 12. He's also a legendary activist and a central figure in the Oscar nominated documentary, "How to Survive a Plague."
I've read you say that you were alleviated and disgusted with Governor Cuomo's recent actions on Ebola. Explain why?
PETER STALEY, AIDS ACTIVIST: Well, just 24 hours before he sat down with Chris Christie to announce this quarantine policy, he was sitting on a stage with our mayor of New York City, our healthcare commissioner. And I was so proud to see New York State and New York City reacting calmly and with servitude of how they're going to deal with their first case of Ebola and it made me very proud to be a New Yorker.
And then less than 24 hours later, he hitches his train to the Christie camp and a policy that AIDS activists knew in their heart had no support from the scientific community.
So, we knew that politics was tramping science.
COOPER: You've no doubt that this was about politics, that he wanted to look like he was doing something, he wanted to get praise from people in New York and so he was doing this, because the science does not back him up at all.
STALEY: Exactly. That's why the epidemiologists association has come out against this Tony Fauci (ph).
How can you fight an epidemic if each state tries to setup its own policy and says it's no longer listening to the CDC? That's craziness.
And we, as AIDS activists saw how politics, and fear, and stigma can have hugely negative repercussions. We live through that.
COOPER: What's interesting too is you're actually on Governor Cuomo's AIDS Task Force which is -- I mean, you're one of the activist who's been named to that.
So for you and others who are on that to be pointing out a finger at the Governor and criticizing him, I mean, that comes with some risk.
STALEY: Yeah. You know, he's gotten a great record now on being a forward thinker on HIV/AIDS. And he is asking us for advice on how to push back a disease that has flourished because of stigma, and hatred, and fear.
How can we give him advice on doing that with HIV/AIDS when we can't trust him to do right thing in Ebola.
COOPER: It's really interesting though, from your perspective that you really link this to the early age (ph) of HIV/AIDS in terms of the stigma, in terms of the way people are being treated.
STALEY: Well it was a very frightening time, and it was a term in our history where politics tramp science and we paid dearly for that.
COOPER: And you hope it doesn't happen again?
STALEY: Exactly. And I feel -- we feel, you know, some real unity with the survivors of Ebola and those who are suffering from it. And the front-line healthcare workers who are like our doctors, who took care of us in the dark days.
We feel real solitary with them and we're going to fight for them.
COOPER: Peter Staley, thanks very much.
COOPER: More breaking news tonight. University of Maryland Medical Center in Baltimore releasing very few details about a patient being evaluated for possible Ebola infection. The patient is now being cared for in isolation.
Meantime, in New York word on a five year-old boy who was taken to New York's Bellevue Hospital and tested for exposure to virus. Good news, this evening, his preliminary results came back. We got details from Miguel Marquez at the hospital.
So he is OK as far as we know, right?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At the moments, he is OK. Negative on the first test, but he and his mother remain here in isolation at Bellevue Hospital. The hospital said that he will go -- undergo more tests in the days ahead.
They want to make sure 100 percent - 110 percent, really, that he is free of Ebola. Anderson?
COOPER: And I talk to Nancy Writebol, the missionary from Liberia who survived Ebola. She's donated plasma to Dr. Craig Spencer who's at Bellevue. How's he doing?
MARQUEZ: Yeah. He is also here and he is doing better. Over the weekend, he started -- hospital said that he started into the worst symptoms of Ebola, the gastrointestinal type symptoms. So he was starting to develop that.
He did take to the plasma transfusion he had from Nancy Writebol and now they're saying that he's looking a little better. Still in serious but stable condition, but they are hoping that he -- that with that plasma transfusion that he will get through this.
COOPER: And his fiancee who was at the hospital, she is returned home, right?
MARQUEZ: She was here at the hospital in isolation with him for some time. She has been return home, the two friends if they had substantial contact with him, they remain as well his fiancee in quarantine at their homes checking in everyday, but at this point they are back home at least and able to enjoy life little easier. Anderson?
COOPER: All right. Miguel Marquez, I appreciate the update. Thanks.
And quick reminder, make sure you set your DVR and you can watch 360 whenever you want.
Another reminder tonight, our experts are answering your questions on Ebola. We know everybody has a lot of questions. Tweet us at hashtag EbolaQ&A, one word EbolaQ&A. That's coming up next.
Also as we touch on at the top of the broadcast, as New York and New Jersey relocks their quarantine rules, the U.S. military tightening them, late details on that. And the troops, now being monitored when we continue.
COOPER: Facts been called (ph), unprecedented action on by the Pentagon, Jim Acosta and I touch on it at the top of broadcast. Tough new measures for troops returning for the assistant mission fighting Ebola in West Africa, are building facilities to fight Ebola, I should say. I ask Barbara Starr about in the first hour of the program tonight. And what are sources are saying about new policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
So exactly how was the army planning to deal with soldiers and others retuning from serving in Liberia or Guinea or Sierra Leone?
STARR: Good evening Anderson. The U.S. army took an extraordinary step today in orders that all army troops also just returning from West Africa will go into what they're calling, "controlled monitoring," what the rest of us might calls "a 21 day quarantine."
(Inaudible) how separately their temperature will be monitored. They will not be allowed to see their families. They will have to stay inside during that 21 day period. All ready two-star general, General Darryl Williams and about a dozen of his folks are just back from Africa are undergoing this monitoring -- this quarantine in Italy at their home base. Now, this door open to all U.S. Army troops doing this.
And General Williams and his team right now are said to be completely asymptomatic, none of them are showing symptoms of Ebola. The army says it is doing this out of a abundance of caution. But this is really way beyond what the pentagon had even layout as the steps for those instead for having no symptoms for when they come back from their duty assignments. Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Barbara Starr, thanks very much for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As you can now seeing from the Pentagon, from states, from medical authorize, elected officials, political pundits and more, there's a lot of confusion. And there's a risk in all of that, the people will simply throw up their hands, thinking there are no solemn answers that's it's all up for grabs. Right now we want to lay that to rest. There are answers including the question that you've been tweeting and posting on Facebook.
Joining us now, Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, also Arthur Caplan Director of the Division of Medical Ethics at New York University Langone Medical Center, Columbia University Dr. Redlener, Director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness and he's advising New York's Mayor Bill de Blasio on disaster preparedness.
All right, let's get right to your question. This one from Twitter, view asked, why is it OK to quarantine our soldiers in Vicenza Italy, but not OK, to quarantine returning health professionals in the USA. Art, what do you say?
ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIR DIV OF MEDICAL ETHICS NYU LANGONE MED CTR: Well, I would say they don't need it and the guys coming back to Italy don't need it either in the sense of which their not symptomatic, their not going to be infectious.
COOPER: Their not even treating patients.
CAPLAN: Their not even treating patients and building -- buildings probably about 200 miles away from where the actual outbreaks are. The army however has a different set of rules. The army probably tells you want to do and tells you where you eat. I have to say, in quarantining them or isolating them, I notice they're going to stay on base, they have a gym, they get food. It's not the same as what we saw with the Nurse at Jersey who was told no water, no shower, it is tent, it is hospital bed, it's no, you know, what are we doing to our citizen here.
COPPER: It would just interest me, just for me, you know, for the government to -- I mean just for people thinking about like this. Does anybody want the government to be able to just point their finger at anybody and say "You're not sick but we think maybe you will be sick and you may spread that sickness to someone else, so we're going to just lock you up because we think it's very -- it's possibly you might get sick. That's the scary thing.
CAPLAN: I mean, morally I would say that's a pretty scary stance to be talking. By the way, we don't dealt with the flue and we don't dealt with the measles and we don't dealt with months, in fact we say to people you still can decide whether you wanted to get vaccinated or not. Even though your kid maybe infectious and kill babies and kill others.
There something about Ebola that's got a little bit out of control, I would say. So I'm OK with the military doing with the military want us to do. I just think for people who aren't showing any symptoms, there's no need to quarantine them as the way to protect public health.
COOPER: Sanjay the mix message, not only between state and federal authorize but also now between civilians and military authorize. They seem to be only be making and already confusing situation more confusing.
SANJAY GUPTA CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah and I think it makes the fear a little bit worse and people's faith in this systems becomes a little bit more challenged. You have the states doing someone a thing. You have the military as you just talking doing something else and CDC which is the most scientific base is doing something else and they are the ones that are most reliant on science and also the least in forcible, because the CDC really can't make any of these mandates the way that the states in a military can.
Let me just follow up which your talking about with Art. I mean I think the idea that the military can do whatever they want is true but the problem is it does send a very confusing message. What is the message? And the message becomes even more muddled. So it's not a zero some gain, there some harm from having this confusing messages.
COOPER: All right. I want to get you another viewer question. This question from Becky (ph) on Facebook, "I'm wondering whether all hospitals are equipped with appropriate protective suit or only certain hospitals prepare?" Dr. Redlener, what about?
IRWIN REDLENER COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well this is a big issue Anderson. And so what first happen was we designated some national hospitals at Emory, and the NIH, and Nebraska, and Missouri so forth. And then we started sort of barring down this and we have now eight hospitals in New York State that have been designated by the state health department as appropriate hospitals, five of them in New York City.
But the problem is these 5,000 hospitals in the U.S. how far down the line are we going to go, because you can't really expect that we'll never ever see somebody just walking into a small hospital upstate New York or somewhere else. And what level of prepares they have to have and it's expensive and a lot of these hospitals can not afford it. You need regular training, you need the personal protective equipment, you need supplies, and even doctors (inaudible) for that matter.
So once you start going on down this very slippery slope here, you're putting demands on the healthcare systems that many, many hospitals are simply not ready for.
COOPER: And they've now up the guidelines for their personal protective gear you need, there are stuff that the CDC earlier on said you need -- needed, you know, your necklines in cover, other parts of body weren't cover, that's for Texas -- the hospitals in Dallas was using.
COOPER: Clearly not good enough.
CAPLAN: And, you know, the other thing Anderson, is just quick (inaudible), you got to train on this stuff, so isn't exactly the equipment...
COOPER: Not just one, two, could repeatedly.
CAPLAN: Got to do it repeatedly.
CAPLAN: I'm not sure if the hospitals are going to be up to (inaudible) if their working the equipment every week.
COOPER: Right. Another viewer questions, this one from Twitter Sanjay, "What is happening with Duncan's family? Extreme exposure but non have come down with Ebola, is there medical explanation? It's not just his direct family it's also the -- more than 40 people who came in contact with him. That certainly seems to be a bright spot in all of these.
GUPTA: Yeah, you know, I mean one thing that bares reminding is that even with a potential contamination when someone infected bodily fluids doesn't mean for sure you're going to get Ebola. In fact the chances are still that you're not going to get Ebola, even you have a direct contamination. So that's one thing to keep in mind. But also, you know, so he was -- he apparently went to the hospital, he had symptoms for two to three more days before he went back into the hospital.
During those two to three days he was with his family and none of them got sick. It could be in part because he wasn't as sick as he was going to get ultimately. That could part of it, the sicker you get the more infectious you become. And the other thing is they weren't probably, actively caring for him, the way the two nurses Nina Pham and Amber Vincent were. So the more intensive care for somebody while they are more sick, those people are going to be at the highest risk.
COOPER: Yeah, when I talk to Louise (ph) the mother of one his -- his son who is in college, she said that he, you know, was talking care himself essentially, she had no contact with his bodily fluids, he would go in the bathroom and kind of take care for himself, even thought they were apparently sleeping in the same bed, he was sweating through the night. Dr. Redlener?
REDLENER: Well one thing else at this point, addition to what Sanjay just said is the need for research. We actually don't know why some people get and some people don't get Ebola. And those -- that was very significant story that those contacts all are fine. Why are they fine? And I think, you know, were having this -- where in this environment where we're cutting back on funds, we don't actually know a lot of answers about Ebola. I wish we did and we're going to need a lot more answers when we start looking at vaccines to use, more scaled up antivirus and so forth.
COOPER: But now when people hear, we don't know a lot answer about Ebola than they say, "Well, how do we know that some is not contagious unless they have a fever, you know, 101.4 and stuff?" I mean there is a base of medical knowledge that's been learned over the last 30 or so years.
CAPLAN: You know, one reason we know it is we had 40 years of Ebola. This isn't the first time it appeared, so we don't now to cure it and we don't know how to -- we don't have vaccine to prevent it. What we do have is a ton of experience in Africa with previous outbreaks. We kind of know who got sick and who did.
COOPER: All right, we got a lot more question, our panel is going to stay with us, we're going to take a quick break. More Ebola questions from our -- from you, after this break. And as always for more in the story and others, you go to cnn.com. We'll be right back though.
COOPER: Welcome back. With the Ebola news breaking all day and this evening, including another possible case in Baltimore though that very much remains to be determine by testing if the virus clearly remains from (inaudible). Plenty of coverage but also plenty of mix messages and a whole a lot of questions including yours, we're answering them right now as much as we can. Sanjay Gupta is here, Art Caplan and Dr. Irwin Redlener. Let's get back to the viewer questions.
Sanjay, this one is to you, Jeremy (ph) in Facebook says, "What's the chances of surviving Ebola if caught early?"
GUPTA: Well, we've known for sometime over, you know, some nearly four decades of looking at this out breaks that people who did have their infection caught early tended to do better. And we're seeing that play out in the United States as well, admittedly in very small numbers and you want to study this sort of thing. But, you know, all the patients who have their Ebola caught early had done well, all they have survived.
Mr. Duncan as you remember, he died, he went two to three days after having symptoms before he was finally admitted to hospital. Now you also know Anderson, some of them got blood transfusions which could have played a role, some have gotten experimental medication, which could have played a role. But we don't know yet. But early detection does seem to matter.
COPPER: Dr. Redlener.
REDLENER: Yeah and one of the other factors of course is the capacity to rehydrate people basically, so people get...
COOPER: The supplemental treatment.
REDLENER: Yeah, they get very dehydrated and of course this is much difficult to obtain in the Ebola countries than it is here in the U.S. But for those patients lucky enough in Guinea, and Liberia, et cetera, who have gotten hydrated and gotten that now early treatment as Sanjay saying of course. But the right treatment, keeping them hydrated probably gives them an edge as well.
COOPER: Which is why it's so important that medical personnel over there actually be able to actually do that. This is for you Dr. Redlener, a lot of viewers wanted to ask about Ebola vaccine. What's the latest on that?
REDLENER: So Ebola vaccine is probably a couple months away, it has to be tested, it has to be scaled up into production that could, you know, really deal with this epidemic. You know, we've been fighting Ebola in Africa with basically 100 year-old, what we call strategies. And hopefully we'll have the vaccine and also antiviral medication in early detection techniques, all coming out of the science here.
As soon as we have that at scale and its safe, I think we'll see some rapid progress, but we really need to hurry this up because the longer it takes to get that vaccine in production out there and vaccinating people, the harder it's going to took (inaudible) the epidemic.
COOPER: And (inaudible), that raises medical -- ethical questions as, I mean you have this vaccine, if it hasn't been widely tested in animals or in humans, do you distribute it given the emergency?
CAPLAN: I think in the middle of epidemic given the death rate in Liberia, Sierra Leone, you're going to see these things move much more quickly than they normally would. So I think we'll have medicines, probably tested for safety, maybe the hundred, 200 people vaccine similarly. But I think you're going to see them roll up. I think the people in those countries are going to say, "You know what? Let's try it, because our death rate, 70 percent, were a mess, we're willing to take those risks.
COOPER: Arthur I want to give you a question from Twitter. One of your tweets, "Why did CDC not revise guidelines until now? CNN reported about Ebola in Guinea six months ago, Sanjay was there, should not be a surprise.
CAPLAN: You know, I -- it's a great question and I think the answer is that we've had people on the frontlines, medicine science frontiers, those volunteers groups that are fighting Ebola over there in Africa. They've got the sense of what the equipment is and what the training is. I'm going to say CDC may have been a little bit behind in terms of its understanding of the equipment.
So I think that was a problem because it leads again to public distrust, to sort of say, "What's the right equipment?" Don't they know? They tell us, you know, you can't get affected. And they tell us they know what they're doing. Yet, there's no agreement on understands. That's a bad situation.
COOPER: Sanjay, Beverly (ph) wrote on Facebook, "If Ebola is so hard to catch like they tell us, how did it become such a big problem? It's hard to believe all those people had direct contact with other people's bodily fluids. Great question. GUPTA: It is a great question. And the answer is all those people did have contract with infected bodily fluids. I mean that how it is transmitted. We're talking over 10,000 people that have infection now with Ebola in those three countries. So it - there's a fascinating concept, something known as "are not", you don't need to remember the term. But basically it's away of measuring how contagious something really is. How many people is one person likely to infect?
So if missiles for example, the "are not" is 18. It's one of the most contagious diseases out there, whereas, with Ebola it's closer to 1.5 to 2.
If you're sick with Ebola, you're infected with Ebola and you get sick, you're going to spread to 1.5 to 2 other people and those numbers have been pretty consistent and that's what we saw in West Africa for a long time.
COOPER: And it's important to point out Sanjay, you know, if someone get sick in a small village in Liberia far, you know, there's not, you know, there's not many doctors in the country to begin with, not many hospitals they can go to. They probably go to a traditional healer, maybe in their village, maybe a nearby village, they're caring of by their large extended family, if they die at the funeral through tradition, keep a lay hands on the body and are part of the burial.
It's not like somebody dying here in the United States where they're immediately waist away, they're, you know, they're dressed up, nobody is touching the body and taking pictures with the body, gather around the body. It's an entirely different reality of life where you have much more contact with people who are sick with people who have died.
GUPTA: Yeah, there's no question. I can tell you Anderson, I saw this first hand, just a build on what you're saying. I mean, a lot of times there was a real concern about going to any kind of medical establishment or going to see the doctor when you are sick. I mean, it wasn't as if the doctors were showing up with some sort of treatment or some sort of magic potion that they can give to the people.
So when these people showed up, when I saw this in Guinea, when the doctor showed up and the healthcare team showed up in this hazmat suits, all it meant to these people, in the small villages was people were going to die. That's what they represented. So do they want to go see them? No. Do they stay home? Yes. Do they then as a result of staying home while they were sick infect their family members? Yes.
You had heartbreaking stories of entire families and then entire communities essentially getting infected and dying, for those exact reasons. So it's really heartbreaking. But again, it doesn't change the way you transmit the virus. It just changes this, you know, the people who are getting...
GUPTA: ...infected. COOPER: Dr. Redlener?
REDLENER: You know, the -- and of course the other reality is if it's just happening in small rural village -- out of the way villages, there's a limit, a built in limit how far it could spread.
COOPER: Right, which traditionally is what's happen with Ebola but this ...
REDLENER: Exactly. But we now we the cities involved, where you have tremendous overcrowding, cities that will built for 3,000 people and a million and a half people.
So the overcrowding is very significant and the contacts are significant. You know, we're thinking about very high rates of non- reporting basically of disease for the reason as Sanjay is saying. There's probably many, many more than this 10,000 that we've been talking about.
COOPER: They also have lack of sanitation opens towards in the street by walking through ...
CAPLAN: About nutrition.
COOPER: Right. I mean, there's, you know, host of issues which we don't experience here and are hard to understand unless you really spend a lot of time there.
Dr. Redlener, Arthur Caplan, great to you and Sanjay as well.
Just ahead, breaking news about the school shooting outside Seattle. Police say the gunman actually lured his victims. Many of whom were -- two of them were relatives and close friends to the cafeteria with a text message. Details ahead.
COOPER: ... news tonight, disturbing new details in the deadly school shooting outside of the Seattle. Police now say the gunman actually setup his victim with a text asking them to meet him in the cafeteria.
His classmates including two of his own cousins were sitting at the table presumably waiting for him when he opened fire.
Over the weekend, a second victim died. The three surviving teens remain hospitalized. Tonight, two of them are in critical condition.
The gunman and the cousins he shot are members of the Tulalip Tribe Community, now reeling with grief and disbelief. Here is Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: About an hour North of Seattle, a bold eagle overlooks the picture as Tulalip Indian reservation. It is the home of two boys now fighting for their lives. Two of the five victims of America's most recent school gun violence. It is also the home of the shooter.
Paula Satiacum lives in a reservation.
How you are related to the shooter?
PAULA SATIACUM, RELATIVE OF VICTIMS: He's my cousin.
TUCHMAN: And Nate Hatch, one of the 14 years old wounded, you're related to him too?
SATIACUM: He's my nephew.
TUCHMAN: And Andrew Fryberg, one of the 15-year old wounded, you're related to him also.
SATIACUM: He is my cousin.
TUCHMAN: There are thousands of people in the Tulalip Tribe but it's an extremely tightened community and many families are related to each other. In fact, many here knew all three teenage cousins well.
SATIACUM: They hand out together. They play basketball together and cultural stuff together.
TUCHMAN: Tribal member say respecting each other particularly one's elders is one of the most important concepts on the reservation. Paula's 26-year old is Brandon Hatch.
BRANDON HATCH, RELATIVE OF VICTIMS: Very important sort of things we live by.
TUCHMAN: How do you deal with this emotionally right now?
HATCH: This is more of confusion than anything. I really want to the main purpose of what lead up to him and everything like why. I don't know. I can't really feel anything else until I know that first.
TUCHMAN: Much of life in the Tulalip reservation is similar to the way it's been for generations.
Here in the Tulalip Bay, fisherman eat and sell what they catch. The same routine their parents, grandparents and great grandparents had.
Hunting is an important part of the culture too, then and now. Also, traditional totem poles are made part of the culture at many homes.
SATIACUM: My dad has got it restored, redone more than once, so it looks good.
TUCHMAN: The Tulalips have dealt with a lot of adversity over the years like many Native American tribes. But what they do with now is unprecedented for them.
SATIACUM: Sometimes I just want it stop. I want to wake up and it was just a nightmare, you know, just go away, but it's something that we got to go through. I heavily thought I never said it's going be easy, he only said I'd be worth it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well it's a nightmare for some many. There is Gary joins us now outside the high school where it happened.
When is the school going to reopen Gary?
TUCHMAN: Well classes were canceled today Anderson and they will be canceled for the rest of the week. However, the school is open for any students who want to go outside to talk to grief councilors or to talk to teachers. Also behind me you could see this makeshift memorial on the fence outside the athletic field, sadly this is something we've seen a lot of in this country over the last 20 or 25 years, but it does provide solace to the community when they see the balloons, and they see the flowers, and the stuffed animals, and the notes to the victims.
One other really interesting and very sportsman like fact I want to tell you, something very unique, the night of the shooting on Friday, there was supposed to be a championship football game played in this field here, the District Championship, the school Marysville-Pilchuck was going to play against Oak Harbor High School, the game was obviously canceled and it wasn't clear what was going to happen to the championship game.
The players and the coaches on the Oak Harbor Team made the unanimous decision to forfeit the game and make this high school the champion and they come in second place. That was their gesture, it's very sportsmanlike and in our book they are also champions to do this.
COOPER: Yeah. No doubt about it. Gary, thanks very much. As we said, two of the shooting victims remain in critical condition. Tonight, a 14 year old girl and a 15 year old boy who's a cousin of the shooter. 14 year old Nate Hatch also a cousin of the gunman is in serious condition. Their families say the boys were extremely close, like brothers, in fact they call each other brother. To them the tragedy still makes no sense and may never -- earlier I spoke to Nate's grandfather, Donald Hatch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Don, thank you very much for joining us during this incredibly difficult time, I know you visited your grandson Nate at the hospital earlier today. How is he doing?
DONALD HATCH, GRANDFATHER OF H.S. SHOOTING VICTIM: He's doing tremendously, you know, probably the biggest one is that while I was leaving he was -- I went back to see him (inaudible), I come back home and he was walking down the hallway. Him and other nurse holding his arm and it just, you know, it just, you know, there's so many things that come into life that you don't expect this fast, you know, he just -- yesterday he was talking, today he's walking and it's just tremendous.
COOPER: Does he remember what happened? HATCH: He remembers, you know, the gun being pointed at him and, you know, him just freezing and just, the other two getting shot and, you know, he's -- I think things are coming closer to him, the healing is the easy part, the memories of everything and the friendship that he had with his cousin is probably the toughest part.
COOPER: I saw a tweet that he sent out, forgiving the shooter for doing this, his cousin and I mean, technically he was his cousin, but you said they were more like brothers.
HATCH: Yes, yes, in fact, the other one, the one that got shot down at Seattle, Andrew Fryberg, all three of them were kind of inseparable, they did -- so the two -- you seen three of them together but then the two could have been Andrew and Jaylen or Nate and Jaylen or -- it's always the two of them together or three of them together.
COOPER: I understand also that Nate has told you or told the friends about one of the teachers and about some of the heroic things that she did?
HATCH: Yes, and how she did this right there. Everybody else running away, she ran too and really made things happen. And when they said that on TV, I didn't believe it, but here's grandson saying that was right there in the middle of the action that she was it and she was -- I feel is a hero's is hero.
COPPER: The shooter's grandfather and you were first cousin, so that's the relationship.
HATCH: We are.
COOPER: How are you dealing with this? I mean it's your grandson who was shot and yet also you have this other link to a boy who shot himself and others?
HATCH: Well I went over there, I think it was Sunday morning -- Saturday morning and went and talk to my cousin and his family and talk to him, but we're praying for them because they lost a grandson too. And nobody knows why this happened because we could, you know, point the fingers every which way. I don't think there's anything we could point a finger at our grandfather and grandmother or the mom and dad and we just have to forage ahead.
COOPER: I know you're a former school board president and I know your community is very close, the tribe is obviously, you know, all suffering through this together. Did you ever believe something like this could happen in your former school district?
HATCH: Sure, sure I did, you know, it could happen anywhere and we just have to care of it and we have to be more visual on the children and watch what happens, because sometimes we close our eyes and plug our ears over things that's out there. It takes a village to raise a child but sometimes nobody wants to be at the village, everybody wants to play at the side role and not do nothing, let somebody else do it.
And we in our communities, whether it's in the United States or across the world that we need to do a better job with our children, otherwise we're going to see more and more of this.
COOPER: Well, I'm so glad that you're grandson is on the mend, and walking, and talking, and I wish you well. Thank you for talking to us.
HATCH: OK, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Hard to imagine the pain that family and so many families right now. Just ahead, how a former American soldier ended up fighting on the front lines in Syria next to Kurdish militia fighters who are battling ISIS.
COOPER: Breaking story that we're following tonight. ISIS has released another video featuring British hostage John Cantlie, there (inaudible) from the video. Now we're very careful about always, not getting too much air time to ISIS video, this is propaganda, there's no doubt about it. With that said, we think it's important for you to see and hear some of them because of what, in this case John Cantlie says about where he might be and also just the sophistication and the style of this particular video, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN CANTLIE, KIDNAPPED BRITISH WAR PHOTOGRAPHER AND CORRESPONDENT: Hello I'm John Cantlie and today we're in the city of Kobani on the Syrian-Turkish border, that is in fact Turkey right behind me.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: They're seems to make it seem like he is reporting from there, Kobani is a key city in Northern Syria that's been under siege for weeks. The Kurdish fighters who are battling ISIS, are getting help from foreign fighters including a former U.S. Army soldier, they're battling ISIS. CNN's Ivan Watson has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Armed men are a common site here in Kurdish controlled Northern Syria, a country embroiled in a vicious civil war. But one of the gunmen in this truck is not like the others.
So, how do people react to you when they see you and realize you're from the U.S.?
JORDAN MATSON, FRM U.S. ARMY SOLDIER: They ask me if I'll come over for dinner and stay the night at their house.
WATSON: Jordan Matson is a 28 year old former U.S. Army soldier from Sturtevant, Wisconsin.
MATSON: How are you (inaudible) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible)
MATSON: I'm good.
WATSON: For the last month he's also been a volunteer fighter in the Kurdish Militia known here as the YPG.
MATSON: I got in contact with the YPG on Facebook and I prayed about it for probably a month or two and, you know, really soul searched and say, is this what I want to do? And eventually, you know, I decided to do it.
WATSON: During his two years in the army, Matson never once saw combat or deployment overseas. But soon after arriving here in Syria he says, he ended up in a battle against ISIS.
MATSON: The second day in I got hit by a mortar on a fight.
WATSON: While recovering from shrapnel wounds, Matson went to work online recruiting more foreigners to help the YPG fight against ISIS.
MATSON: I've had ex-military calling from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Canada, the United States, Australia, you name it, they've been asking. You know, ISIS has threatened all of these countries that I've named to push their agenda in those nations and the veterans of those nations who love their countries don't want to sit by while this is happening.
WATSON: Back home in Wisconsin Matson used to work in a food packing company.
MATSON: Other than that we just hang out in here.
WATSON: Now he lives in places like this former restaurant converted into a militia camp.
What are the pictures?
MATSON: These are all men that have died fighting against ISIS.
WATSON: The YPG are very lightly armed guerrillas. Is this even a flack jacket?
MATSON: No this is just a vest to carry ammunition.
WATSON: So basically people are running into battle without even any armor?
WATSON: And wearing sneakers half the time?
MATSON: Yes, combat Adidas.
WATSON: U.S. law enforcement officials say it's illegal for an American to join a Syrian militia but Matson says being here, fighting ISIS along side the Kurds is a dream come true. You could not be further from home right now?
MATSON: Yeah, I guess this is the other side of the world. All my life I just want to be a soldier, I guess growing up and so I just fit well over here, I'm at peace being here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, do we know, is he the only American fighting along side the Kurds?
WATSON: Matson says there are at least three other Americans that are with the Kurds as well and, you know, if there is a trend that I've seen in many of the conflicts that I've followed and covered Anderson, it's that they tend to be magnets for foreigners and a very collective mix of adventurers, of mercenaries, of idealists, of misfits as well and the Syrian Civil War which is dragged on for so many years is no exception to that trend.
COOPER: Ivan Watson. Thanks Ivan. It has been a tough night of news, coming up after the break something to make you smile, the Ridiculist is next.
COOPER: Time now for the Ridiculist. And tonight's story takes place where many great modern day adventures originate in the Chili's in Florida. A cook there has been relieved of his duties after he relieved himself of his shirt and took some pictures in the kitchen. He posted those on Facebook, under the title, Sexy Cooks of Chili's. I'm not sure what the big deal is exactly, the Chili's passed inspection after his photos were posted. Apparently no sexiness was left on the counter or at least an acceptable amount of sexiness when it comes to health codes. Still Chili's patrons were not exactly impressed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a little deserving, yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well. That's a little ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) educate about stuff but in some things, they think ignorance is bliss, because if he kind of know what's going on I don't think he would ever eat out, to be honest with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's true, as a former waiter I can attest to this. Sometimes you really don't want to know what goes on in the kitchen. Remember the guy who got canned from Burger King for standing in the lettuce, now that is clearly in a fraction in a fireable offense. The Chili's guy wasn't even preparing food, the place looks close and it's not like he's naked exactly, he's wearing an apron, you can even see his ribs there, which I think is what Chili's is known for right, the ribs? Anyway, the guy got fired. But let's have a little perspective shall we. I mean, really what is worse, an unexpected view of a cook at Chili's or finding something unexpected in your actual chili. This is from a different restaurant in Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first bite I took out of it, it was a crunch. And at the time I was like, what could it -- I didn't -- I was like, maybe that was a bean, you know, sometimes you get a hard bean, instead of chili.
COOPER: It's true, sometimes you get a hard bean. But this was no hard bean oh no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wilson says what he immediately spat out was this gray rodent, which he thinks is a rat's head with curly ears and a snuggle tooth.
COOPER: A snuggle tooth, isn't that a cartoons, snuggle tooth? Anyway, I trust I've given you all something I think about tonight. As far as I'm concerned, restaurant kitchen staff of America do what you got to do. Have fun, take pictures in the kitchen all around on the counters if you want, have an entire burlesque show back there if you want as long as you don't stand on the lettuce and you're paying at least enough attention to make sure the food remains free of curly eared snuggle tooth rodents. You'll always have repeat customers on the Ridiculist.
That does it for us.