Return to Transcripts main page

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Getting Close to Election Day; ISIS Continues War in Syria and Iraq; Captured ISIS Fighters Speak To CNN; Obama Overreacting To Bush Foreign Policy; Unstoppable Lave A Few Feet From Homes

Aired October 28, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to "THE LEAD." We're going to stay with our "Politics Lead." Now, some Republicans are accusing Democrats of releasing racially charged ads using fear to boost voter turnout. A radio ad from Senator Harry Reid's super-PAC in North Carolina tries to tie candidate Thom Tillis to Trayvon Martin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tillis won't fight for us. Instead, he made it harder for candidates of color to vote by restricting early voting and voter registration. Tillis even led the efforts to pass the type of stand your ground laws that caused the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: On the other side of the fence, Republicans say that Democrats - I'm sorry, on the other side of the fans Democrats say Republicans are playing the race card. The National Republican Congressional Committee released this TV ad in Nebraska, which even the former chairman of the Republican Party Michael Steele called racist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nikko Jenkins was released from prison early after serving only half his sentence. The head of the Omaha Police Union said Jenkins is the poster child for why the good time law is a farce. Brad Ashford deported the good time law and still defends it, blowing criminals like Nikko Jenkins to be released early. The National Republican Congressional Committee is responsible for the content of this advertising.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's a nice touch. That side by side, I think. Well, one thing is certain. We must be close to Election Day because that is all makes me feel like I need to go take a shower. Here to chew it all over with us is former Obama press secretary and CNN political commentator Jay Carney and "The Weekly Standard" editor Bill Kristol. Bill, let's start with you. That ad against the Democrat in Nebraska is being compared with the Willie Horton ad. Now, factcheck.org says that the facts of the ad are correct. He did support this good time law which had early release of prisoners, but that - the context of it makes it a little less than reputable, shall we say.

BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR "WEEKLY STANDARD": I don't know. If the facts are correct, the facts are correct. You know, I mean a lot of advertising is - pushes on the edge in terms of the emotion and tries to call up and all that, but hopefully voters look past all that. But the facts are the facts, you know.

JAY CARNEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the fundamental issue is the side by side photograph. I mean there was a menacing looking guy, a criminal, you know, juxtaposed with the candidate and that's supposed to send the message. Now, politics is hard ball, especially as we get close to Election Day. And another fundamental fact about this Election Day is that Republicans across the country in state after state after state have been aggressively trying to make it harder for some people to vote citing fraud that doesn't exist. That, I think ...

KRISTOL: "The Washington Post" just - you should read "The Washington Post." It kind of endorses President Obama, had a huge front page article about how much thought there has been.

CARNEY: There's not - it is - I did, of course, read the article. It is a farce to suggest that these efforts around the country are not aimed at reducing the turnout on Election Day among voters who principally vote Democratic.

TAPPER: Let me ask you that ...

CARNEY: Most people over a cocktail in your party would ...

KRISTOL: I voted in Virginia last Saturday. Since I was going to be in New York next week, I voted early absentee in person and I had to show my driver's license. Do you think that's really a problem?

CARNEY: You know what the statistics say. You know who is most affected by the requirements, essentially poll tax type requirements.

KRISTOL: Poll tax? To have - showing an identification is like charging people a fine, a tax?

CARNEY: Bill, you know that the fraud isn't substantial and real. You know, it doesn't have a significant impact because it's so minimal on election results and you know what the motivation is behind it. You know it.

CARNEY: I just totally disagree. But that's OK.

KRISTOL: No, you don't.

TAPPER: Let me ask you - let me ask you a question, Jay about - I hear what you're saying about the voter I.D. laws. But when it comes to a lot of the appeals we've seen directly aimed at African-American audiences, whether urban radio or specific mailers, trying to tie voting Democratic with - I'm sorry, trying to tie voting Republican with Trayvon Martin, with the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, and try to - and a lot of them are from Democrats or color change left leaning organizations. Is that fair?

CARNEY: I think Democrats are as we've talked about before going to have a bad Election Day no matter how you slice it. Republicans are going to pick up seats in the Senate and the House and they may win control of the Senate. So, they need to mobilize their base voters and that is especially true of minority voters and they are playing hardball too. I think, you know equating support for stand your ground law which is bad policy and bad law doesn't mean you supported the action that took Trayvon Martin's life. So that's the kind of, you know, rough ad that similar to the one we saw from the Republican. I think we've come to expect that and hopefully a lot of voters as Bill was saying kind of tune it out.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about this new CNN/ORC poll that shows 74 percent of the public is unhappy with the way the country is being governed. Bill, you and I were kind of talking about this on Twitter the other day. There's definitely an anti-Obama sentiment out there and it looks like Republicans are going to have a better day than Democrats on Election Day, but there's also a real anti-incumbent sentiment out there as well.

There is. That's why some of the Republican governors are having a little tougher time than you might expect in what's going to be a good Republican year, I think, because there the incumbents, Scott Walker in Wisconsin, Evan Schneider in Michigan, people who I think have done a pretty good job as governors are running against that anti-incumbent tide. But look, people - I mean the media likes to say voters are disgruntled, unhappy. There's some truth to that. But they are also - in my view justifiably unhappy. Look at the economic prospects for middle class or working class of Americans. Look at the foreign policy failures. It's not unreasonable for voters to think it's time for a change. But that can hurt Republicans when they're the governor of a state.

TAPPER: And yet, Jay, even though we see all of this in the polls and the American people are angry and they are scared, ultimately 98 percent of the incumbents will be returned to office.

CARNEY: Well, you know, if there are a way to get Americans who are disgusted with our gridlock and broken political system to get excited about political reform, then you could see some change in the way that we draw our districts and pick our house members especially. And that might improve the situation. But until that happens, I think they're going to get more of the same.

TAPPER: All right. We'll talk a little bit more. We still have got seven more days. Jay Carney, Bill Kristol, thank you so much as always. When we come back, face to face with terrorists. Our own CNN reporter just left Syria where he met with ISIS bombers turn prisoners and he was told that the tables were turned, he would be tortured, he would be beheaded. Ivan Watson will join us alive next. Plus, it might not be moving very fast. But it's 2,000 degrees. Burning lava headed toward a Hawaiian town. Can anything stop it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to "THE LEAD" now. It's time for our world LEAD, the ongoing struggle against ISIS terrorists.

The Pentagon today saying operations against Jihadists are "well inside operational timelines" or translated, things are going just fine. But as ISIS continues to wage war across Iraq and Syria. It's tough to reconcile the U.S. government's assurances with what we usually see hardened adversaries. Guns held at the ready. That sinister black banner whipping in the wind, but now CNN has a starkly different portrait of what it's like to be in ISIS. A never before seen view of men taken advantage of and drugged and forced to kill their own family members. All in the name of a holy crusade. CNN senior international correspondent Ivan Watson. Ivan, the video from inside this makeshift prison is just stunning.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was an intense experience. We traveled this weekend across the border into a Kurdish controlled enclave in northern Syria. This is the same Kurdish faction that has been battling ISIS for more than a year and as many of us have seen, has been battling to defend this border town of Kobani against an ISIS offensive for much of the last month and the Kurds brought us to a prison where I was brought face to face with several men that they claim were ISIS prisoners. It was frankly a very uncomfortable, somewhat creepy encounter. And we're being introduced to prisoners that the Kurds tell us were members of ISIS.

(voice-over): The prisoners are brought in blindfolded and we quickly begin to wonder whether they're being forced to speak to us. During our visit here, the guards who ask not to be shown, do not allow us to see the cells where the prisoners are being held.

This man trembles with fear as a prison guard removes his blindfold. I introduce myself as an American journalist and he begins to relax a little.

He tells me he's a Syrian named Suleiman. He confesses to be part of an ISIS cell that planted and detonated a remote controlled car bomb outside a Kurdish base and says he received around $3,600 for completing the job.

(on camera): What is the idea that ISIS is fighting for?

SULEIMAN, CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translator): They said they were fighting for Islam and justice. They were lying to us. They took advantage of our minds and our poverty.

WATSON (voice-over): One of the prisoners the guards bring out is barely a man.

(on camera): Your name is Kareem. How old are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm 19 years old.

WATSON (voice-over): But Kareem tells me he fought alongside ISIS across Syria for more than a year.

(on camera): Where were you injured?

(voice-over): He has the battle scars to prove it.

KAREEM, CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translator): They gave us drugs and hallucinogenic pills that would make you go to battle not caring if you live or die.

WATSON: Before he's captured by the Kurds, Kareem claims he saw ISIS behead many of its prisoners.

(on camera): Why does ISIS cut people's heads off?

KAREEM (through translator): Whenever ISIS goes into the area, the eyes of ISIS, people who don't adhere to their Islamic law, everything has to follow ISIS' way. Even women who don't cover their faces, women would also get their heads chopped off.

The final prisoner is Jabber, a former school teacher and father of two who also confesses to a car bombing.

(on camera): What would have happened to me if, when you were with ISIS, if you guys had found me, an American journalist?

JABER, CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translator): With ISIS your fate would be death, and there are different kinds of death. They would torture you for sure. They might decapitate you or cut off your hands. They will not simply shoot a bullet in your head.

It's impossible for CNN to confirm whether anything the prisoners tell us was true or whether these men were coached by their captors. The Kurdish prison guards say, if set free, every one of these men would likely go back and rejoin ISIS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATSON: Jake, all of these conversations, these interviews were conducted in the presence of Kurdish prison guards and perhaps that explains why the prisoners repeatedly said that they were begging the Kurdish YPG faction for forgiveness for their crimes and promising to return to peaceful life if they would be set free.

This Kurdish YPG faction is involved in a propaganda war with its enemy ISIS as well as a very vicious war on the ground with ISIS and this was clearly an effort to demystify ISIS and to show some of its members in a real position of weakness -- Jake.

TAPPER: Ivan Watson in Erbil, thank you. Great reporting. Despite claims of progress by the Pentagon, ISIS remains hell bent on bringing their brand of terror to American shores.

So with threat streams from all across the world, ISIS, Ebola, honorary Russian dictators converging on Washington, How does President Obama avoid falling into the trap of just reacting? How does he go about leading?

Joining me now to discuss the president's foreign policy challenges is CEO and editor-at-large of "Foreign Policy" magazine and author of "National Insecurity American Leadership in An Era Of Fear," David Rothkopf. Thank you so much for being here, David.

Now in your book, which is great and breezy writing as always, you argue basically that President Bush overreacted to 9/11 with the war in Iraq and with violations in your view of civil liberties.

And then you argue that President Obama kind of overreacted the other way and is now underreacting to world events. What should he have done differently say to have prevented this crisis in Iraq and Syria?

DAVID ROTHKOPF, AUTHOR, "NATIONAL INSECURITY": He could have listened to advisers when Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta or David Petraeus was saying move in Syria three years ago. ISIS was much smaller then.

If at the time we armed the free army and put pressures on Qatar or Turkey to stop funding extremists there and if we had sought to do more work in humanitarian quarters and stabilized that situation and built more support for us, we might have nipped this in the bud.

The other thing he could have done was instead of leaving Iraq at the first sign that there was resistance from the Iraqi government to our proposals, we could have stayed. We could have worked on the political solution and we wouldn't have had this void in Iraq that ISIS has taken advantage of.

TAPPER: You write a very stinging charge in your book. You say about his foreign policy evolution, quote, "It is hard to think of a recent president, who has grown so little in office." You think he's grown little?

ROTHKOPF: I don't think there's a lot of science that he's grown a lot. I think the last year and a half has been the worst year or a year and a half that he's had whether it was Egypt or going into Syria and then deciding not to, the NSA scandal, the issues with Crimea, with Ukraine.

Now this current issue with ISIS and we're not even talking about Libya, which has completely melted down or other issues like that. So given that things are getting worse and given that the team around him doesn't seem to be getting stronger.

You know, even Bush who made terrible, terrible mistakes in his first term, by the time his second term came around, he realized things weren't going well, he replaced the whole team and he began to get somewhat different results.

So he did show a bit of growth and Clinton showed growth and Clinton showed growth and other presidents have shown in foreign policy from the first term and the second term and we don't see signs of that from Obama yet.

TAPPER: Well, we love having you on the show. Congratulations again on the book. It's great. "National Insecurity American Leadership in An Era Of Fear" by David Rothkopf, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, hundreds of residents nervously escaping as a river of burning lava heads directly at their homes, is there anything that can be done to slow it down? We'll ask the mayor next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Yikes. Welcome back to THE LEAD. In National News, it is hot enough to vaporize a human being and now a river of lava chest high in some places is moving closer to a community where a thousand people live on the big island of Hawaii.

Many have left their homes as the Kilauea volcano threatens to change their lives and geography forever. Joining us is Billy Kenoi, he is the mayor of the Big Island of Hawaii. Mayor Kenoi, thanks so much for joining us. What are the latest evacuation numbers?

MAYOR BILLY KENOI, BIG ISLAND, HAWAII (via telephone): Right now, we have lava flow headed to Pahoa Village. It's currently moving but slowing down a bit but we expect it to pick up because of topography five yards per hour now. We've seen it advance as quickly as 20 yards per hour as recently as yesterday.

So we have residents that have been notified door to door. We've been in communication for many weeks now with our residents and some have evacuated. Shelters are open to assist our residents.

And our first responders are doing a great job securing the area and keeping people informed and managing the traffic flowing in the area surrounding the lava flow advancement.

TAPPER: Forgive me for asking this, but I know a lot of viewers are wondering, why can't anything be done to stop it?

KENOI: Well, as you know, the power and force of Mother Nature, when she decides whether it's a hurricane or a tsunami or in our case currently a lava flow advancement, we're talking about hot molten lava coming out of a vent that's been erupting since 1983.

The current flow advancement started on June 27th and of course, a lot of talk came in about diversion. People have said what if you open up a hole to redirect it to unpopulated areas and the problem is as a political leader.

And as one entrusted to keep the community safe, you don't want to take any action with regards to mother nature unless you can do so with a high degree of certainty. All of the options and alternatives that have been proposed unfortunately do not have that degree of certainty with regards to outcome or consequence of our action.

So our job has been to work with Mother Nature and as she flows and hot molten lava moves through our community, it's keeping people safe and keeping people informed and giving them access and support that they need to make very difficult decisions.

TAPPER: So Mr. Mayor, we know that some roads have been cutoff and two gravel roads have been built around the lava to help people escape. Is there any fear that people might get trapped?

KENOI: No. That's been our priority since the beginning of this most recent flow on June 27th. We know that there are three critical areas we have to maintain for quality of life and safety of our residents. One is electrical power and our utility is working collaboratively to make sure we have uninterrupted electrical service.

Second is communication and so we are working with all of our utilities and service providers to ensure uninterrupted communication. People have power and communication. And third is access to roads. As a county we have stepped up and we're providing access for over 8,000 people.

TAPPER: All right, thank you. Thank you, Mayor Kenoi, best of luck to you. I'm sorry. We have to end the show right there.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I turn you over to Wolf Blitzer. He is in "THE SITUATION ROOM."