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Obama Says No Deal for North Korean Detainees; Did U.S. Kill or Wound ISIS Leader?; Prominent Pastor Among 9 Killed in Plane Crash; Decision Expected in Michael Brown Case

Aired November 10, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It did not touch on some of the broader issues that have been the source of primary concern when it comes to North Korea. It's, in particular, its development of nuclear capacity.

KENNETH BAE, RELEASED FROM NORTH KOREA: I just want to say, thank you all for supporting me standing by me during this time, and it's been just amazing blessing to see so many people being involved getting me released the last two years and not to mention, now mentioning for the thousands of people that have been praying for me as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Such good news for these men and their families. We're all over this story this morning. We have Ana Cabrera in Seattle near Kenneth Bae's home. Ana, we're going to talk to you in a little bit, hear about what's going on.

But let's start with Paula Hancocks in Seoul for more on the timing and circumstances of his release, Paula, because this kind of came out of nowhere.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Everyone was very surprised when this happened, not just that they were released suddenly, but the fact that they were both released together. This is not what analysts had expected.

Now of course, the question is, why now? Why has Pyongyang decided to release these two men? And according to Washington, there was no quid pro quo. There were no conditions. So certainly, that is the question.

There are many answers. One assumption is it is a P.R. exercise for Pyongyang. We've seen an immense charm offensive from this country in recent months, most notably, according to experts, because there is this U.N. human rights abuses report that's going through the U.N. at this point, saying that Pyongyang has committed crimes against humanity. And Pyongyang is trying to mitigate that report; they're trying to soften their image internationally.

And then also, there is the fact that, in the short term, this is beneficial to Kim Jong-un, the leader of North Korea. It's very clear that this decision came from him. It could only have come from the top. And the reason that that happened was, according to his statement from Pyongyang, President Obama gave an earnest apology.

Now Washington hasn't commented on that comment, itself, but the fact is, Kim Jong-un can play this very high domestically. It is propaganda gold for him. He is able to say, "The most powerful man in the world has apologized. I am legitimate on the international stage." So experts say that's likely one of the reasons, as well.

And of course, North Korea has a very difficult relationship at the moment with its biggest ally, China. Maybe it's looking for friends elsewhere. It has in the past, said it does want dialogue with Washington -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Paula. Thank you very much. A little bit of intrigue there. But the headline is they're home. All right.

So now, let's figure out what this transition will be like. Unimaginable, Ana, to go through something like what happened in North Korea but now to be home. What do we know?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, joy, gratitude, relief. It's been a members of emotions for these families, for the families of Kenneth Bae and Matthew Todd Miller, who have spent months and even years ago wondering and waiting for this day.

We know it's been a little over 24 hours now that the men have been back on American soil, and while the family of Matthew Todd Miller has chosen to make this a private moment for their family, we have had a chance to speak with the family of Kenneth Bae, who has shared a little bit about what life is like now for Kenneth.

We know he spent his first meal, his first time at home, eating pizza, sharing stories, sharing laughs with family members. I understand that he hasn't spoken much about his time in prison in North Korea. We did learn that he was working in a field, though, during his days in that labor camp and that he was away from the general population.

But despite all that, his sister, Terri Chung, told us yesterday that he still has a huge heart for the people of North Korea. Listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRI CHUNG, SISTER OF KENNETH BAE: He went there because he wanted to contribute to their economy. He wanted to -- you know, he wanted to connect with the people. And he has a love of that. So I think he still want and -- you know, he still wants that connection. He still wants to see the country and the people thrive and to be happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: It's pretty hard to believe. It just goes to show the character of Kenneth Bae, in that he still really does care about those people. He even thanked the government of North Korea because of their

willingness to let them go to be able to spend time with his family. Now, keep in mind, he has family all over the world. His wife lives in China. We know his children live out of state. So he still hasn't been able to hug and hold everybody. And that's really the plan moving forward in the next days and weeks ahead, Chris.

CUOMO: Boy, oh boy, years in detention. I mean, just imagine the journey he'll be on to getting back to what normal is. But what a great start he's having. At least he's home. Ana, thank you very much.

Now, earlier on NEW DAY, we spoke with Jeffrey Fowle. He was the third American being held in North Korea. He was also the first to be released. He says he's elated for Kenneth Bae and Matthew Miller. But knowing what got him arrested in North Korea was leaving behind that Bible him -- you'll remember, that's what got him jammed up -- I asked Fowle, would he do it again?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY FOWLE, FORMER HOSTAGE OF NORTH KOREA: I would say if I had to do it over again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have done it. Things did not unfold according to the way I thought they were going to. God had a different plan. But I wouldn't recommend it for other people either.

But that's not to say I think it was the wrong thing to do. I don't make that decision until I'm standing before Christ in the afterlife. If he says it's a bad idea, then I will concede it was a bad idea. But I wouldn't recommend it for anybody else, and I wouldn't do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Interesting insight, right?

CUOMO: Well, it's got to be conflicting for them. Because there was a lot of motivation. You know, when you're dealing with Kenneth Bae and Fowle, they're motivated by their faith. That's a really strong motivation. Yet you look at the predicament it put them in, they certainly don't want to see anybody else in the position they found themselves.

CAMEROTA: Right. It sounds like he's saying that he could have expressed his faith in perhaps a different way now, in retrospect, given the hardship that they just endured.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And the hardship it placed on their families, especially with Fowle. You know, it was a single-income family. His wife worked part time. But how much it stressed out the family and the kids. And...

CAMEROTA: Right, right.

CUOMO: One of the good things that was rectified, remember we reported how his job, which was a civil service job...

PEREIRA: Yes, about that.

CUOMO: ... they dropped him. You know, like government -- talk about places the government finds to save money. They reinstated him, which is good. So he's got his job back. And that will be really big for his family.

CAMEROTA: That is a great update.

All right. Now to the fight against ISIS, and the big question this morning: What is the condition of the ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi. Iraq's state media reporting that he was wounded when a U.S.-led airstrike targeted a convoy over the weekend. But U.S. Central Command says it cannot confirm that. Now the search is on for any sign of him.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now with the latest. What do we know, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Why can't the U.S. confirm it?

Well, there was a coalition airstrike near Mosul in northern Iraq against a convoy of ten vehicles. The U.S. says it was targeting ISIS leaders it believed were in that convoy, but they were not targeting Baghdadi. They had no information that he was even in the convoy. Then these reports emerged.

So now they are looking for the confirmation. Could he have been there? So how would they do this? Well, you know, telephone intercepts, communications intercepts, social media, anything that they can find to verify possibly that Baghdadi was there. So far, this is basically emerging from some fairly vague Iraqi official reports, news media reports. Nothing that the U.S. says yet that they can have any confirmation that he was wounded.

Of course, this coming as President Obama announces another 1,500 U.S. troops will be going to Iraq and that the mission that they will have is to help train Iraqi troops to get back in the field, back in the fight, especially in Anbar province, west of Baghdad. That will be very dangerous, very tough going. That is where ISIS is on the march, the Iraqis trying to push them back. U.S. Troops will now go there and try and help train the Iraqis.

But first, President Obama is going to get some funding from Congress that will fund this new mission. That's going to lead to an awful lot of conversation on Capitol Hill about the way ahead for the U.S. with ISIS -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Barbara, bring us any breaking news as soon as you have it this morning. We appreciate that update.

Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: Boy, I hope Barbara is right, Alisyn. I hope it does lead to a lot of discussion and debate among Congress. You think they probably should have a discussion about a war that's ongoing.

So let's bring in our CNN military analyst, Major General "Spider" Marks -- James "Spider" Marks, of course, but I'll just call you General.

General, it is good to have you with us this morning. What is the straight deal about how good we are at knowing if we got someone? Especially when you have this -- if we knew about this big meeting being brought together, which seems very risky, how do you not know who was there and what happened?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it's always difficult as you know, Chris. You're triangulating a lot of data, as Barbara indicated. You're going on social media. You see how they communicate. You link telephones with individuals. You try to get those numbers working together. And if you do a strike, you have to make some assumptions. But you're never really 100 percent sure, unless you do a DNA swab, and that certainly hasn't happened. So...

CUOMO: Any chance they know and they aren't saying?

MARKS: No. No, no, no, not at all. No, without hesitation, if we knew he was dead, we'd announce it quickly.

CUOMO: How much does it matter if he's dead, by the way? how fast can a snake grow a new head, for lack of a better metaphor?

MARKS: Yes. No, no, that's a good -- that's a good metaphor. That snake will grow a new head.

You know, we've said before, you know, you could take out all the leadership at the Pentagon, and the Pentagon would operate quite effectively. Other folks would step up.

In an organization like this, it will morph, and new leaders will emerge. In fact, you know, bear in mind that ISIS leadership originated from Saddam's military. These are very conventionally trained, very professional leaders that have been disenfranchised; obviously, are terrible aggrieved. This is the Sunni grievance that we've been talking about for the longest time.

So you're going to see leaders, Chris, that will continue to emerge. So, although some pundits have indicated that you don't want to go after the leadership as a primary attack angle, I would suggest, well, yes, you do; however, the attacks have to be at multiple layers. This is a network. You just don't go after one particular entity. You've got to go after it across the board.

And when you only have airstrikes, and you're trying to train Iraqi security forces, what you're really describing is an engagement that's going to take a long time. We're talking about a distant horizon before this thing can reach any type of a steady state. We're not there yet.

CUOMO: So that leads to the next headline this morning, which is President Obama is saying a new phase, sending up to 3,000. People will see it. The fear is, mission creep. U.S. boots on the ground. They're going to start fighting.

Not necessarily. Most of this is going to be about infrastructure and much-needed intel infrastructure, right?

MARKS: Right. Absolutely, Chris. What you have is you really have the mission that the scope has now increased. It's not like an expansion in terms of the mission sets across the board.

There will be an enhancement in terms of intelligence, and clearly, General Lloyd Austin, the commander at Central Command indicated the one thing he lacks -- and it's not surprising -- is human intelligence, that intelligence that's derived from sources on the ground. So you have to bring in the capability to start to run sources. You've got to identify folks who are willing to embed themselves as best they can. This is -- this is an incredible amount of artful work that must be done, incredibly dangerous work that must be done. And these are local sources that are willing to risk their lives in order to enhance their individual positions but to help us get better intelligence from ISIS from the ground up.

We've got an amazing array of technical intelligence that allows us to strike very precise targets. But what you need is a full panoply of intelligence that allows you to draw a picture so you can attack those pieces of the network that really degrades it. And as I said, it gets it into a -- more of a steady state as opposed to, then, a retrenchment; surging, retrenchment. This is a long-term engagement.

CUOMO: As you taught me, General, airstrikes are only as good as their targets. And we're told by CentCom, U.S. Central Command, one of every four air strikes, 800 out of 3,200 actually dropped weapons. And it talks to how difficult it is to find targets in the first place. That's why we need more intel.

Major Marks, thank you. Always a pleasure to have you on NEW DAY, sir.

MARKS: Thanks. Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Chris. Now to that plane crash in the Bahamas. All nine people on board were killed, and among them, prominent preacher Myles Munroe, his wife and two youth pastors and a child. The investigation into what went wrong is underway this morning. Alina Machado is following developments from Miami.

What do we know, Alina?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we know that local media are reporting right now this morning that this plane hit a crane as it was trying to land in Freeport. We also know that there were storms in the area at the time of the crash, so that is something that will likely be looked at as they try to figure out what caused this plane crash. Now, as you mentioned, nine people are dead. Among them, Myles Munroe

and his wife Ruth. They were on their way to Freeport for the Global Leadership Forum -- that's an annual conference hosted by Munroe -- when this plane crashed.

A former U.N. ambassador to the United States and Atlanta Mayor Andrew Young is one of the main speakers at this conference. He was already in the Bahamas when this plane crash happened. And he is sending his condolences this morning to the families of those who died.

Now authorities in the Bahamas, meanwhile, have not yet released the names of the other victims. And we do know, Alisyn, that the FAA is investigating this crash.

CAMEROTA: Alina, thank you so much for that update this morning. So sad. Let's go over to Michaela for other news.

PEREIRA: Yes. Here's a look at your headlines, 12 minutes past the hour.

A member of the Israeli Defense Forces have been -- has been stabbed at a bus stop in Tel Aviv. Officials are calling this incident a targeted attack. A Palestinian suspect has been arrested. That suspect is a Palestinian residing in Israel illegally. We're told that the soldier's wounds are being described as severe.

The retooled Obamacare website is ready for window shopping. Consumers can go to Healthcare.gov to check out their insurance options. Enrollment does not begin until Saturday, November 15. Estimated premiums, deductibles and maximum out-of-pocket costs are prominently displayed. The White House is hoping to avoid problems it had with the initial Obamacare rollout last year. So far, more than 7 million people enrolled. The goal for 2015 is 13 million.

A fragile cease-fire in Eastern Ukraine appears to be unraveling this morning. There are reports of heavy fighting in Donetsk. European monitors are saying they are seeing dozens of unmarked military vehicles with rocket launchers in tow driving through rebel-held territories. It is suspected that those vehicles belong to Russia and that the weapons they're hauling are for arming pro-Russian separatists.

Westminster, Massachusetts, could become the first municipality in the U.S. to ban the sale of all tobacco products. The town's board of health holds a public hearing this week on the proposed regulation. Local shops and smokers are pushing back against a total ban. So far, they've gathered more than 800,000 signatures on a petition against it.

Really interesting, given the juxtaposition with what we just saw happen in the midterms: two more states joining in legalizing marijuana.

CAMEROTA: Yes. But then tobacco...

PEREIRA: One municipality is trying to ban all tobacco products. It's very interesting.

CAMEROTA: I agree, because tobacco is still legal. But you wouldn't know it in some places. I mean, you really -- smokers really can't find anywhere to go anymore.

And you're right. Just as marijuana becomes...

PEREIRA: And it's still, just from a lung cancer perspective, it's still smoke. And you're inhaling it more deeply into your lungs, aside from the fact that some people believe it has on your brain, you know, what it does to your lungs.

CUOMO: That's why it the -- it is a big discussion.

PEREIRA: It is.

CUOMO: But it's about -- we want it because of the THC. But how do you deliver it? If you make it smokable, you're encouraging many people who don't need it medicinally to use it. And that's the slippery slope argument.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let us know what you think about this.

Meanwhile, we have an update, because there's high anxiety in Ferguson, Missouri, as folks await a grand jury's decision on the fate of Darren Wilson. That, of course, is the police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown. Is he likely to be charged? We'll get a legal perspective next.

CUOMO: And the president may be in Asia this morning. But he can't go far enough to escape the problems of last week's election. We'll talk about what's happening with immigration while the president is overseas. John King will tell you "Inside Politics." See you till then.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: As early as this week, a grand jury could deliver its decision on whether to indict Ferguson, Missouri, police officer Darren Wilson for shooting and killing teenager Michael Brown. Local authorities have been told to prepare for the worst as tension mounts with protesters in advance of this decision.

Here to discuss the legal process playing out is CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Great to see you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: So do you have any indication of how -- which way this is going to go, whether Darren Wilson will be indicted or not?

TOOBIN: I really don't. I mean, grand juries are secret. This one was secret. A lot of people have talked about the evidence. Various people have been interviewed. But when you think about some of the most important facts, we don't know what they are. How far away was Michael Brown from Officer Wilson? If they were very close, that suggests maybe self-defense. If they were far away, that would be bad for Officer Wilson.

Was he -- was Michael Brown shot in the back? Was he shot in the front? All those questions need to be answered before you can decide whether this was a justifiable shooting.

CAMEROTA: But just the fact that there is that confusion, and there is a debate about all those facts, just as you've just laid them out, doesn't that necessitate a trial?

TOOBIN: Not necessarily. I don't think so, because these questions do have answers. There will be forensic tests that indicate how far away they were. There will be forensic tests that will show whether Michael Brown was shot in the front or the back. If he was shot in the back, that suggests, certainly, a crime may have been committed.

But I don't think you can make a judgment about whether this case should be prosecuted until you know all those facts. And presumably, the grand jury will know them.

CAMEROTA: But some of the questions don't have answers. Some of them just have perceptions. And we've heard two divergent perceptions that have been leaked out, at least, from the grand jury: one from Officer Darren Wilson and his account of how things played out, and one from Michael Brown's friend, Darien Johnson, who was a foot away from him when all these things happened. And they're very different stories. And again, the fact that they are two such different stories, isn't that what a trial is there for?

TOOBIN: Potentially. But remember, those -- that's not the only evidence in the case. Officer Wilson has a clear story, apparently -- it's all been leaked out now -- about what happened, that there was this confrontation inside the car. Michael Brown reached in, a gun went off. It was -- and then later he shot him -- Wilson says he shot Brown in self-defense.

But that is not a complete story. How -- what happened after Officer Wilson got out of the car? That's what's really the key issue in this case, because that's when the shooting took place. And under those circumstances, you need to look at all the evidence, not just two people's versions of it, to decide whether there's a case here.

CAMEROTA: Look, I don't have to tell you that if he's not indicted, if the officer is not indicted, the protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, and people -- many people around the country will feel as though the grand jury only listened to Darren Wilson's side of the story, and that there wasn't really justice.

TOOBIN: There's no question that's the case. And that's why people are so worried about how -- when and how this decision is going to be announced.

It's -- unfortunately, it's kind of an ugly environment where you feel like there's almost this pressure to indict to avoid a conflagration. That's not how the criminal justice system is supposed to work. It's supposed to work on the basis of the evidence against an individual person. But that's why a lot of people are calling for some sort of early

disclosure of when the grand jury is going to make its decision in order to -- so that everybody can prepare. And that strikes me as a good idea.

CAMEROTA: Yes, to quell all of the unrest, if that's even possible. And we have heard -- I mean, there are suggestions that it will be happening this week, but we shall see. Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: Maybe unrest. I mean, we shouldn't assume that it's going to be -- people are fully entitled to protest. But riots and that sort of thing, certainly, we want to avoid, yes.

CAMEROTA: That's a great point. And in fact, community leaders there are really trying to quell any of that...

TOOBIN: No one wants that.

CAMEROTA: ... before the decision comes down. So we'll keep everyone posted on that. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much. Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. So feels like the campaign for 2016 already in full swing? It does to me, John King is going to take us "Inside Politics" and tell us what the White House hopefuls are up to. And who are they, anyway?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Almost half past the hour, here's a look at your headlines.

President Obama says there was no secret deal made to secure freedom for two Americans that were freed by North Korea over the weekend. Kenneth Bae says he harbors no ill will toward the regime in Pyongyang for keeping him locked up for nearly two years. Bae and Matthew Todd Miller returned home this weekend with national intelligence James Clapper following a mission authorized by the president.

Questions are swirling around the fate of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi. Iraq media state -- Iraq state media reports that he was wounded over the weekend by a U.S.-led airstrike. But U.S. Central Command says it cannot confirm that al-Baghdadi was in the convoy that was hit.

In the meantime, President Obama says he is sending 1,500 additional U.S. troops to Iraq to help train Iraqi soldiers to battle ISIS.

Residents of an assisted living facility in New York who were displaced by Hurricane Sandy, they are now being asked to repay thousands of dollars in disaster aid. FEMA has declared them ineligible for aid checks they received two years ago, because the money was supposed to be spent on temporary housing.

Well, that assistance was never provided because residents spent months being moved from one emergency shelter to another. And I'm sorry to tell Led Zeppelin fans, the band will not be

reuniting after all. It seems $800 million was not enough for front man Robert Plant. That was the offer from business tycoon Richard Branson for 35 shows. But according to the British "Sunday Mirror," Plant turned down the offer and will not consider.

CAMEROTA: Wow, for $800 million you'd think he'd reconsider.

PEREIRA: I'd sing some Led Zeppelin songs, and I can't sing.

CUOMO: What a rock star. And it was only going to be -- it was only going to be three venues. It was like London, Jersey and one other place.

PEREIRA: Curious why.

CUOMO: Eight hundred million dollars. What would you do...

PEREIRA: What do you say, the three of us, we can go and do a little Led Zeppelin cover.

CAMEROTA: I know "Stairway to Heaven" by heart. Who doesn't? Since eighth grade. Air guitar.

CUOMO: What would you -- what would you not do for $800 million? I mean, that...

CAMEROTA: That's our question to you this morning.

CUOMO: The ultimate rich people problems.

CAMEROTA: Right.

CUOMO: Speaking of rich people problems, let's talk about politics and the 2016 election.

PEREIRA: You get better segues day after day.

CUOMO: Thank you. To you, John King.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": The art of the segue. The Monday after the election, we're supposed to having to talk about, right? But it's a very busy, packed day to go "Inside Politics". See you guys in just a few minutes.

With me this morning to share their reporting and their insights, Jackie Kucinich of "The Washington Post", Jonathan Martin of "The New York Times."

Let's start with the president. He's overseas in Asia. Tough trip there, talkign to the Chinese and others about some difficult global challenges, but let's focus. Before he left, he sat down with Bob Schieffer of CBS "Face The Nation." We all know the president has poised the issue sweeping executive action on immigration reform, providing legal status to millions of the undocumented.