Return to Transcripts main page

WOLF

The Search for New Defense Secretary; Iraq Tribes Hope for More U.S. Support to Fight ISIS; Kim Jong Un's Sister Takes Prominent Role in North Korea's Government; Pope Francis Visits Turkey; Soccer Icon Pele's Condition Improves.

Aired November 28, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Wolf Blitzer today.

Earlier this week, Chuck Hagel announced he's stepping down but will stay until a replacement is confirmed by Congress.

Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joining me now on this story.

One of the early expected frontrunners, Barbara, was former undersecretary of defense, Michelle Fornoy, but she's already said no. So who is left on that short list?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, who's left? And one of the undercurrent questions in Washington right now, who really wants the job? That may be the bigger question. Hagel may have stepped down officially, but make no mistake, he was forced out by the White House political apparatus. That is very clear according to top administration and Pentagon officials. So this leaves any new potential defense secretary wondering what they're walking into.

Who's on the short list? Well, it's pretty telling. One is a man named Ash Carter, former deputy here at the Pentagon. Very well regarded, but very little experience on the world stage. Could he do the job? Absolutely. Is he seen essentially as a government bureaucrat? Absolutely. Jeh Johnson -- you see him there on the left. He is currently the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. He used to be the general council, the top lawyer at the Pentagon. Very experienced, qualified to handle the bureaucracy, but he, too, comes with a bit of political baggage. He's been the architect of the president's executive action on immigration. It could open him up to a lot of questions in a confirmation hearing.

One of the big issues right now is Secretary Hagel and his two predecessors, Secretary Gates and Secretary Panetta, all complained about White House micromanagement, a very major issue for someone, anyone that wants to take the job -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Certainly would be. And we're also hearing this name floated by keeping in mind Texas Senator Ted Cruz, a Republican. He's floated the idea of former Senator Joe Lieberman. But I sort of wonder, Lieberman supported President Obama's '08 opponent, John McCain. And also we're hearing this from Ted Cruz, certainly far from a mouthpiece for those close to President Obama. What do you make of that suggestion?

STARR: Well, it's an interesting one. Maybe Senator Cruz wants former Senate Lieberman so he can question him at public hearings in front of television cameras. That might appeal to Senator Cruz, I suppose.

You know, one of the big issues right now, the new chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, John McCain, Republican, Arizona, one of the major voices in the Republican Congress for a more assertive military policy against ISIS by President Obama. President Obama says no boots on the ground. John McCain wants plenty of U.S. military action in Iraq and in Syria. So first, a new secretary is going to face very tough grilling by McCain at a confirmation hearing. And for the just under two years that may be left on the job for any new secretary, plenty of questions from John McCain almost every day of the week. It promises to be, shall we say, a political fire ball, a politically contentious two years for any secretary that comes in to do the job -- Brianna?

KEILAR: And you can imagine, Barbara, I certainly wouldn't raise my hand to go through the confirmation process that this next nominee would be going through. But do you think ultimately there are going to be issues with confirming someone the president puts up for this?

STARR: I think we may be getting to what we always get to in covering any administration. When the White House sends up a nominee to a Congress of an opposing partying, plenty of fireworks at a confirmation hearing, plenty of questions. But short of that nominee having any real dings in their record, any real problems, there's been a general -- as you know better than anybody over the decades -- presumption that the Senate confirms who the president wants in a job, that a president does have somewhat of a political right, if you will, to have the people he wants in the job. Then the chips fall where they may. When that person goes to testify on Capitol Hill and Congress doesn't like what they're hearing, then the fireworks begin to fly. I can't imagine that the Obama administration would send up somebody who's basically non-confirmable behind the scenes. A lot of work going on, we know, for them to decide who they want to pick.

Let me say this. The list of potential candidates out there, you could add a lot of names to that list. But one of the things going on, even on this holiday weekend in Washington, a lot of chatter. Could there be a dark horse candidate out there? Somebody none of us have thought of -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Yeah, we are wondering. The Senate will make whoever it is go through an unpleasant song and dance, but we would expect them to be ultimately confirmed.

Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon, thanks.

STARR: You're welcome. KEILAR: And still ahead, the battle ahead against ISIS. We'll be looking at the fighting on the front lines and how the Iraqi tribes are hoping for more help from the U.S.

Also, Pope Francis is in Turkey to meet with the country's leaders. And he's calling for religious tolerance. But will a Catholic figure be heard in a predominantly Muslim nation?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: One of the key parts of the United States strategy to fight ISIS is cooperation of native forces on the ground in Syria and Iraq, and that means depending on local tribes to battle the brutal ISIS forces.

Our Jomana Karadsheh followed one of those tribes and they say they are being forgotten by the Iraqi government and the U.S.

And I have to warn you that some of the images you're about to see are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Body after body lines the street in this western Iraqi town. The killings a chilling message from ISIS: Fight us and this will be your fate.

The men are believed to be from one of the few defiant Sunni Arab tribes in Anbar Province. For months, they fought back ISIS, standing their ground until they were outgunned in October.

SHEIKH NALEM AL-GAOUD, TRIBAL LEADER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

KARADSHEH: "We ran out of ammunition and we had to defend our forces. We were presented to ISIS as a gift on a platter," says Sheikh Nalem al-Gaoud, one of the tribe's leaders. He says without support, they've paid a heavy price, 700 killed, many executed just this year.

In 2006, al-Gaoud was part of the awakening movement. Sunni tribes recruited and paid by the U.S. military to fight al Qaeda, which turned the tide in that war. After the U.S. military pulled out in 2011, the tribes were neglected and marginalized by the Shia-led government, driving many to join ISIS.

(on camera): The revival of a Sunni tribal force is a key part of the U.S.'s current strategy to defeat ISIS. But different tribes say there's been no sign of help from the United States. And the new Iraqi government has yet to make good on promises to arm them.

(voice-over): Coalition air strikes have not been effective. ISIS is still powerful and capable. Iraqi military and tribal forces have struggled to stop the extremist groups' unrelenting assault to take the little of what remains of the country's largest province, including its capitol, Ramadi. AL-GAOUD: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

KARADSHEH: "We rationed the ammunition we have, and ISIS bombard us with tens of thousands of rounds. ISIS supports their people," he tells us. "They have a supply line from Syria to Anbar. If Anbar falls to ISIS, the militants will tighten their grip on the vast territory they control, stretching from the Turkish border through Syria all the way to the Western outskirts of Baghdad." "To shift the balance," al-Gaoud says, "they need weapons and more air strikes, and they need them fast."

AL-GAOUD: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

KARADSHEH: "People would be killed in cold blood, and there will be more massacres. We're getting killed because of our friendship with the Americans. Does a friend abandon a friend like this," he asks.

For now, Al-Gaoud prepares his men for their next battle. How long the flag will fly high over this patch of Anbar will depend on the country he calls a friend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Jomana Karadsheh joining us now live from Baghdad.

Jomana, has the U.S. military addressed these concerns that we're hearing, the concerns of the Iraqi tribes who are really the ones doing the ground fighting against is?

KARADSHEH: Well, U.S. officials say there are now plans to start arming the tribes in Anbar, but at this point in time, these are just plans. There have been no timelines announced yet, or at least that are known at this point.

As you heard in that report, these tribes really don't have the luxury of time. They say that unless they get the support, unless they get the weapons, they are beginning to get slaughtered by ISIS, they say. And that really will likely deter other Sunni tribes from turning on ISIS from fighting against the extremists group.

Now, according to a spending request document for Congress, the Pentagon is asking for $24 million to arm the Sunni tribes. Now, U.S. officials that we've spoken to say that getting any weapons to the Sunni tribes will have to go through the central government, the Shia- led government here in Baghdad, and really, there is no trust between the government and the Sunni tribes.

And Sunni officials from within the government, top officials and also tribal leaders that we have spoken to, say that they will not receive these weapons unless the United States puts pressure on the Iraqi government. And they say that the U.S. has now more leverage than it's had in a very long time in Iraq, but they say there's no sign of the U.S. using that leverage.

KEILAR: So many obstacles, and we would expect that this would take probably months, probably several months to play out. Jomana Karadsheh, thank you. Live for us from Baghdad.

There has been an interesting change in North Korea's government, with a woman now taking a more prominent role in the country's leadership. But it's not just any woman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): In the secretive hermit kingdom, she may be the only person more mysterious and enigmatic than her older brother. But today, just weeks after Kim Jong Un resurfaced from a months-long disappearance, it appears Kim's little sister is taking a leading role in her family's iron-fisted regime.

UNIDENTIFIED NORTH KOREAN NEWS ANCHOR: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

KEILAR: Overnight, in an unexpected twist, North Korea's official news agency began referring to Kim Yo Jong as a vice department director of the country's governing party. Aside from the new title, experts say they know very little about the move or even about her.

VICTOR CHE, AUTHOR: All we know is she's a younger sister, went to school in Switzerland, in her mid 20s. She started showing up publicly from earlier this year at a couple of party functions.

KEILAR: Analysts say she is the youngest of seven children that her father, Kim Jong Il, had with four different women. While he was still alive, experts say she took on important responsibilities for her father, like inspecting sites before official visits. After her father's death and her brother's selection as supreme leader, she apparently began receiving intelligence briefings and handling government policy.

She is said to enjoy unfettered access to her brother, but the public announcement of her new title will most likely lead to speculation about whether she is gaining power, especially after months of questions related to her brother's health.

After being out of the public eye for several weeks this fall, Kim Jong Un only recently reappeared in photographs, smiling and walking with a cane. Some reports have speculated Kim was in hiding after surgery on his ankle or foot.

Still, even if her brother is healthy, this new positioning of Kim Yo Jong is significant in a country where power has been handed down from her family for three generations.

CHE: Clearly on a slow track to becoming somebody who is important within the system again, because there really aren't many bodies left to carry on the sort of Kim clan rule.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Kim Jong Un and his sister, Kim Yo Jong, both come from Kim Jong Il's relationship with his so-called second mistress. The other three children have much lower profiles, although several reports say the oldest brother was exiled to China after trying to sneak into Japan on a fake passport to visit Tokyo Disneyland.

The Catholic pope is visiting Turkey and mostly Muslim countries. So what is he doing there? What message is he hoping to spread?

And there's better news today for one of the sport world's most iconic athletes. We'll have the latest on Pele's condition.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Pope Francis called today for religious tolerance during a visit to the mostly Muslim country of Turkey. The pope met with the country's leaders and urged a dialogue to extremism in the Middle East.

CNN's Arwa Damon is there.

ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Brianna, Pope Francis arriving in Turkey, to quite the reception, with an honor guard and various Turkish dignitaries greeting him at the Ankara Airport. He continued along his route escorted something that's not a very common site, a ceremonial cavalry regiment, to the gates of the 1,000-room presidential palace where he was greeted by the President Erdogan. The two then held a joint statement.

Pope Francis really focusing on the need to create genuine interfaith dialogue and how important it was at this stage to build those vital pillars of mutual trust.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translation): We cannot remain indifferent to the causes. It is implicit while all respecting international law. I would like to reiterate, moreover, that the problem cannot be resolved solely through military response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON: President Erdogan, for his part, raising his concerns about the rise of Islam-a-phobia. While is poses a serious threat one should not forget the atrocities being carried out over the last three years by the Assad regime.

Pope Francis' visit to Turkey comes at a critical time for Christians in the Middle East. They have been persecuted for the last decade. First by al Qaeda and then by ISIS. Driving the vast majority of them out of their homes and countries in both Iraq and Syria. The very real fear is that if the status quo is allowed to continue we could end up seeing a Middle East where in some places at least Christianity no longer exists -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Arwa Damon, thank you.

Just ahead, Pele sends out a tweet he's feeling OK. Now, hospital officials in Brazil are confirming the soccer icon's condition has improved. We'll have the very latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Soccer legend, Pele, remains in a Brazil hospital but doctors say his condition is improving. He's been hospitalized since earlier this week with a urinary tract infection that developed after recent surgery to remove kidney stones. Concerns spiked yesterday when the hospital released a statement saying his condition was unstable.

Joining me now is CNN's Shasta Darlington. She's with us from Sao Paulo, Brazil.

I think some of the confusion, Shasta, was Pele also sent a tweet yesterday saying he was fine. So really I guess what happened here?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That was exactly the confusion. You had Pele saying one thing, the hospital saying the other. In a series of tweets, Pele said he was fine, it wasn't serious and he wasn't in intensive care. Well, the hospital saying he was getting kidney dialysis. The problem was more the English-language P.R. team for Pele wasn't keeping up with the quickly changing conditions and facts there on the ground in the hospital. Yesterday morning, likely when tweets were first prepared, Pele wasn't in intensive care. His personal aide told us he was moved to a secluded part of the hospital because he was getting too many visitors and too many phone calls, and he was doing just fine. Of course, as we now know, by evening, he was receiving dialysis and that's obviously an indication of some serious kidney problems. But, again, I would say they were not necessarily contradicting each other. The tweets came out a little too late -- Brianna?

KEILAR: So we know -- you said he was receiving dialysis and, obviously, that is something that is very alarming medically. Is that something that has ended or is that still the case? Will he continue to receive that?

DARLINGTON: No, he is still receiving dialysis. In fact, we had the last hospital update an hour ago. The good news is, they say, his condition is proving but continues on dialysis and he's still in the intensive care unit. More good news, they said the dialysis will be temporary. They say he's lucid. That he's responding to antibiotics and eating normally now. All of this is good news.

One interesting detail, though, that we just confirmed today that should be interesting, is Pele only has one kidney. His other kidney was removed when he was still playing soccer years ago. And obviously, it's another complication when you look at the health problems he's having now -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Certainly, that does make it a much bigger deal. Do we have a sense when he may be released, Shasta?

DARLINGTON: The hospital isn't saying. They won't go out on a limb. His P.R. people, his personal aide says expects he'll be out of the hospital by Wednesday. But what we've seen so far his aides are month optimistic than the hospital, so I think we'll wait day-by-day to see if this urinary tract infection is cleared up and he gets off of dialysis -- Brianna? KEILAR: Shasta Darlington, thank you.

That's it for me. I'll fill in for Wolf this evening on "The Situation Room" at 5:00 eastern. Bernice King, the daughter of the slain civil rights leader, Martin Luther King Jr, will be with us to discuss race in America.

For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.