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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Report on Torture Released; Patrick Lynch Accused Mayor de Blasio of Throwing NYPD Under the Bus; Protests Continue at Grand Central; Nor'easter Pounding North East with Rain and Snow; Man Stabs One in New York Synagogue
Aired December 9, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight with a stunning new report on the use of torture. Torture not by some Middle East dictator or a rogue group of terrorists but by the United States government. Published today after years of research and attempts by many of the government and the White House, to prevent its publication, it's a scathing review of CIA interrogation techniques used after 9/11. Senate intelligence committee concluding the methods of torture were far more extensive than previously known, more brutal than officials said and that they didn't work.
Also, detail today how high level officials from the CIA misled the White House, members of Congress and the American people time after time about what was really going on. Keeping detainees awake for days and mobilized an agonizing stress positions, repeatedly waterboarding detainees, threatening to sexually abuse family members, the aggressive use of rectal tubes, the list goes on and on.
And this is from just the summary of the report. The details are certainly hard to listen to, but they're important to know about and we'll go into more detail in a moment.
First, there is breaking news tonight related to this. A warning tonight about what repercussions could be coming from terror groups, as well violent extremists here in the United States.
Our justice correspondent Pamela Brown joins me live on the latest with that.
So, there's a terror warning. What do you know about it?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So the FBI and DA just sent out a bulletin, Anderson, warning law enforcement agencies across the country that terrorists may try to exploit the torture memo findings as propaganda and use it as a recruiting tool. The bulletin also says that it could spark online reaction and eventually influence home grown violence extremists.
So the big concern here is that as it picks up steam on social media, it could inflame extremists, though. I want to emphasize here, the bulletin says it's unlikely we could see violence in the near term. And law enforcement source I spoke with say there's no new intelligence indicating threats related to this memo, Anderson.
COOPER: And the FBI director, he was asked about this afternoon, what did he say?
BROWN: He was. He had a round table session with reporters. Of course, this was one of the first questions out of the gate to him. And he said at that point earlier this afternoon, he actually he hadn't read the memo yet. But he says, basically look, this doesn't relate to the FBI, therefore, he chose to stay tight lipped about it. But he did say the concern in the FBI is whether this memo will generate any activity overseas or from home grown violent extremists. So basically echoing the sentiment in the warning. That was the note today, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Pamela Brown. Thanks very much.
And the Senate intelligence committee spent five years looking at more than six million pages of CIA documents and released 525 pages of the summary today. Within those pages, the conclusion that CIA detainees were tortured and within that conclusion, the incredibly grizzly details.
Barbara Starr reports.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The brutality is shocking. The report reveals at least five detainees were subjected to what it calls rectal feeding. Interrogation procedures that went on for months. At least one detainee died from hypothermia.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Stripped naked, diaper, physically struck and put in various painful stress positions for long periods of time. They were deprived of sleep for days, in one case, up to 180 hours.
STARR: One detainee had his lunch pureed and poured into his rectum. He eventually attempted to cut his wrist, chew in to his arms and cut a vein in his foot. Much of the information kept from President George W. Bush's own secretary of state.
FEINSTEIN: There are CIA records stating that Colin Powell wasn't told about the program at first because there were concerns that, and I quote, "Powell would blow his stack if he were briefed."
STARR: A former top CIA official says some details were held close, but that the agency did not engage in torture.
ROBERT GRENIER, FORMER DIRECTOR, CIA COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, people of conscience can disagree on this. But the people who are on the front lines who are actually engaged in trying to defend America against terrorists, they have to rely on the legal advice that they are given.
STARR: Some of the worst abuse occurred at a secret location called Cobalt where detainees were walked around naked or shackled with their hands above their heads for extended periods of time. CIA officers direct detainees (INAUDIBLE) down hallways, slapping and punching them. And an admission in CIA document that waterboarding did cause physical harm.
Abusebata (ph) repeatedly water boarded became completely unresponsive with bubbles rising through his open full mouth. Internal CIA records called Kala Shirks Mohammed's waterboarding, 183 times, a series of near drownings. Torture that wasn't even effective, according to the report.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It produced little useful intelligence to help us track down the perpetrators of 9/11 or prevent new attacks and atrocities.
STARR: The CIA issued a lengthy and detailed statement saying the program was legal and gained the country useful intelligence but acknowledging mistakes were made.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
COOPER: A spokesman for former president George W. Bush said his only statement about the report will be what he told CNN's Candy Crowley this past Sunday. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA, serving on our behalf. These are patriots. And whatever the report said, if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base. And I knew the directors, I knew the deputy directors. I knew a lot of the operators. They are good people, really good people and we're lucky as a nation to have them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: If you read the report though, he wasn't even informed about these methods until 2006 and when he was informed, expressed reservations about some of them.
Former vice president Dick Cheney also dismissed the report before it even came out. Cheney was a major, obviously, proponent of what he called enhanced interrogation techniques after the 9/11 attacks. He told "The New York Times" yesterday that he still thinks they were absolutely and totally justified. Cheney told "the Times' about the Senate report, quote, "What I keep hearing out there is they portray this as a rogue operation and the agency was way out of bounds and lied about it. I think that's all a bunch of hooey."
Joining me now live, Colonel Morris Davis, former chief prosecutor of terrorism trials in Guantanamo bay, CNN national security analyst Peter Berger and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey Toobin, what s interesting about Cheney's statement is that's not how I read the report. That this was a bunch of rogue people. This is actually not a bunch a couple of bad apples down at the bottom. This is stuff that came from the top. Because in this report, time after time, you have CIA officers who are involved in these interrogations saying the suspect has no more information. This stuff isn't effective. We should stop or voicing concerns about it and being told by higher ups, no, just keep doing it. Just keep doing it. We think this person has more information.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Anderson, I don't think it's hyped to say that there has never been a day like this in American history. We didn't treat Nazis like this. We didn't treat the Vietcong like this. This is something that is without precedent in American history and it came from the top.
Now, actually, that's one thing that is somewhat ambiguous. It came from the top of the CIA. What is peculiar about the report is that the role of the White House is somewhat mysterious, but the idea that somehow CIA agents on the ground decided to do this on their own is clearly wrong. This was a CIA wide operation completely acknowledged and supported.
COOPER: Colonel Davis, I mean, you say you're not aware of one life saved or one single plot averted because of this program. I mean, when you read this thing, every time and the CIA has put forward all these cases and a lot of politicians put forward all these cases. The White House, the Bush White House and others saying, well it was the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Everybody saw that movie where torture resulted in information that led to bin Laden. The capture of Jose Padilla, you know, the second alleged shoe bomber and you know, multiple instances, people have pointed to that enhanced interrogations of what's really torture led to these things. This report categorically go through this and says each time, actually, they had the information before this person was even tortured.
COL. MORRIS DAVIS, FORMER CHIEF PROSECUTOR TO TERRORISM TRIAL AT GUANTANAMO BAY: You're exactly right. And what you cited or what held up is the best examples of what torture did for us. Even if you accept those as true, which I think is a real stretch particularly in the case of Kala Sheikh Mohammed giving up the information that led to bin Laden, either if you put that look at the plus category, if you look at all the minuses that we incurred, the damage that we've done, the cost that we've incurred is going to take decades to undo the harm. And I think it far outweighs any potential good anyone that anyone can cite.
COOPER: Also, just the sheer, the number of lies told by leaders of the CIA, again, according to this report, Peter Bergen, I mean, one of the big -- Michael Hayden testifying in front of Congress essentially according to this report, lying to Congress about, you know, the humane treatment people were receiving. You had people in the White House talking about humane treatment. The biggest bone of contention between this report and the CIA's account is if these techniques were defined not sort defined by Osama bin Laden. The report said they weren't. The CIA says they were. You say what?
PETER BERGEN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I read the section of the report about the hunt of bin Laden. And it is very, very convincing. I mean, the burden of proof is on the other side I would say at this point on this issue because this report is heavily annotated. I mean, the footnotes of this rich -- in fact, this is the most detailed account of the intelligence breaks that led to the courier that led to bin Laden. And I had written a book on the subject and had investigated. There is a great length and talked to many of the people involved. And this report is very, very useful.
And it makes a convincing case, Anderson, that information about the courier that led to bin Laden came from either people who are in the custody of other governments or came from intelligence that was already in the system from signal's intelligence and human intelligence.
And so, I think the burden of proof is really on the other side. We were claiming that coercive interrogation techniques led to bin Laden, you know. Because I think this report on this issue is very convincing.
COOPER: It is interesting though, Peter, because you know, a lot of conservatives that push back besides saying shouldn't release this. You know, these were scary times. You know, one of the arguments they made which is interesting is that there were a lot of politicians on the left who had the time were saying, you know, or indicating that they kind of knew this stuff was going on and they basically just wanted the CIA to do whatever it took to keep America safe. And now those same politicians coming forward saying they're outraged by this.
BERGEN: Well, I mean, yes, there's a great deal of politicization around this. But I mean, I think we're a long way from 9/11 now and able to look at this more nationally. And I think that there's a huge body of scientific evidence and also of other forms of evidence showing that non-coercive interrogation produce very good results.
I give a very concrete example. Randy Usef (ph) who blew up the trade center in 1993 and killed six people and attempted to bring down the towers. You know, he gave a completely fulsome confession. He was captured in Pakistan on the plane home to an FBI agent by the name of Brad Garrett. And that is not untypical.
And, you know, any FBI -- one thing is really interesting to me is that assuming the people involved in these decisions, they were not FBI agents, they were not federal prosecutors and essentially watched too many movies where the baddy gives up everything because they're, you know, kind of abused. And that's not how real interrogations proceed.
COOPER: And Colonel, that was the other thing. Michael Hayden has said, you know, everybody who is involved in the stuff is carefully vetted. This report seems to show a lot of these people, you know, they're psychologists who had no experience in interrogation who are designing some of these things. They were contractors who, you know, had shady backgrounds and shady records. And some who created companies that were making millions of dollars off this.
TOOBIN: Which is by the way, the company that made $81 million, $81 million out of service.
COOPER: That's absolutely true.
So Colonel, I mean, when you see just the sheer number of lies associated with this that the American people were told, I mean, time and again that this was a humane program, were you -- what else surprised you about this report today?
DAVIS: I don't think there was really anything in it that surprised me. I think for the public, just the scope and the pervasiveness of the program, probably was a bit breathtaking. I think the one thing that did surprise me, as you mentioned, was the contracting out. They extent to which, you know, these weren't agents. These were government contractors doing this for profit. And in the case of the two psychologists, you know, richly rewarded for reverse engineering the Siri program.
You know, we talked about this report here in the U.S. If I was advising the people that are identified in the report, my advice would be vacation domestically because here at home, the president can choose the, you know, look forward not back approach. But these crimes had universal jurisdiction. They're war crimes and anywhere outside of the U.S. is not obliged to follow our lead and looking forward to not back on us.
COOPER: It is shocking -- I mean, Jeff, just very quickly, when you read this, if you envision Nazis doing this. And I even hate to say this, if you envision the Khmer Rouge doing this, it's all you can imagine it. I mean, it not that far removed from stuff they were doing. I mean, rectally, you know, feeding somebody to the point violently beyond any medical necessity doing all, you know, water boarding.
TOOBIN: It does sound like stuff that people saw in movies and thought they would try out. It is not something that the government has ever sanctioned.
COOPER: Is that true that some of these guys can be arrested later?
TOOBIN: Well, the answer is almost certainly not in the government. The idea of universal jurisdiction, there was one celebrated case where the dictator of Chile was arrested in London but that has never been replicated since then. I think it's extremely unlikely but it is at least theoretically possible.
COOPER: It is stunning report as more on the CNN web site about it.
Jeff Toobin, thank you. Colonel Morris Davis, Peter Bergen, as well.
A quick reminder, make sure you set your DVR. You can watch 360 whenever you want.
Coming up, an alarming point (ph), you will only see here. The result of about a yearlong investigation into armed security guards. Widely different rules state by state, and let security guards carry guns and sometimes with deadly consequences. Also, there is more breaking news in protests going on right now over
the death of Eric Garner at the hands of police. You are looking a live picture from New York's grand central station. Details ahead.
COOPER: Tonight, we have the disturbing results of the yearlong investigation into people hired to protect who end up killing. You see them everywhere, private arms security guards in banks, malls, public facilities. No one really keeps track how many of them have guns below even number increasing in recent years.
Well now, investigation by CNN, the center for investigative reporting finds a troubling pattern, uneven training in standards for background checks leading in many cases to some deadly consequences. We are talking about armed guards with mental issues. Others who are prohibited from having a weapon but manage to beat the system to become one of this country's hired guns.
Our senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin tonight has the story.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE) was gunned down in the parking lot of a Miami strip club in June of 2012. He was unarmed sitting in a pickup truck when he was shot and killed by an armed security guard.
This is that guard being brought into court now charged with murder and facing a father who can't understand why his son has been taken away from him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You murder my son, man, for nothing. He was trying to get away from you. Try to get away from you, man. You kept doing it while his back was under. You kept shooting him, man. You kept shooting him in the back. His back was tied to you, man.
GRIFFIN: Lucas Shane Kendall (ph) has a history of alcohol abuse, a Dui conviction. He was kicked out of the Navy. After the shooting, the jail psychiatrist diagnosed him with antisocial personality disorder. And a recent diagnosis by court-ordered psychiatrists of unspecified schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorder.
Yet, on the day Donald Burg's son shot and killed, Lucas Kendall was fully licensed by the state of Florida to hold a badge and a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you've got a little young security guard, they get any kind of opportunity to use their weapon. It's death. It's death.
GRIFFIN: Details of the shooting, as chilling as the moment Donald Burg met his son's killer in court. Kendall arrived on duty early seen here in this surveillance video on that June 9th. (INAUDIBLE) and friend Michael Smathers (ph) were already sitting in a pickup truck in the parking lot. Kendall told police he thought they were rolling marijuana. He approached the truck and claims Burg (ph) and Smathers (ph) were looking menacing. One of the men threatened him, he says, and both car doors opened.
Kendall claims he felt his life was in danger and believed one of the men had a weapon. He fires at least 12 shots killing Burg (ph) eight times including four shots in the back as Burg (ph) crawled under the truck. The shooting left Burg (ph) dead and Michael Smathers (ph) paralyzed. Police say no gun, no weapon was found in that truck. Kendall calmly called 9-1-1.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was anyone shot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, two people are shot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where's the gunman now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am the gunman; I'm the security officer here.
GRIFFIN: Security guards, even though many look like police officers, by and large, don't have arrest powers and don't report to the public.
An investigation by CNN and the center for investigative reporting finds the armed security guard industry is kind of like a wild west when it comes to oversight. You could become an armed guard in 15 states with no firearms training. Nine states don't bother to run FBI criminal background check, 27 states don't even check to see if someone is banned by federal law from carrying a gun.
Unlike police officers, the requirements to become a licensed armed guard across the U.S. can be so lax. In Kentucky, you can become an armed guard simply by arming yourself and calling yourself one.
PAT ALEXANDER, SECURITY GUARD INSTRUCTOR: There's no training requirement. There's no licensing requirement. A security company simply needs a business license. Just like the florist down the street has. But instead of selling flowers, they're selling yard service.
GRIFFIN: Security industry veterans Pat Alexander and Steve Cabalero run a security guard training school. They blame security firms more interested in making money than paying for proper training.
STEVE CABALERO, SECURITY GUARD INSTRUCTOR: They need warm bodies to put on the street to make money by the hour. They don't want to have to go through all of the training procedures to wait to get that body out there.
GRIFFIN: Only four states require security guards to pass a psychological evaluation. Florida is not one of them. Keewon Burg's (ph) mother, Arlene, surrounded by his father and sister, believes Florida granted an arm security guard license to a man who was crazy.
He feels justified in saying that he was defending himself.
ARLENE, VICTIM'S MOTHER: He's sick.
GRIFFIN: Kendall could have been disqualified from becoming an armed guard for getting discharged from the Navy after several alcohol- related offenses, but he didn't disclose that on his application and the state issued him a license. So who did hire Lucas Kendall? This man. Bell Grave Arellano, is the owner of the new defunct security company that hired him.
Drew Griffin with CNN. How are you doing?
BELL GRAVE ARELLANO, HIRED LUCAS KENDALL: Hi, Drew. How are you doing?
GRIFFIN: Good. How are you? I'd like to talk. Why did you hire Lucas? Did you do any screening of him?
ARELLANO: Excuse me. We are leaving right now. It's nice to meet you though. Have a great day. Thank you.
GRIFFIN: The Kewon Burg (ph) killing isn't the only case involving one of Arellano's armed guards. His former business is fighting a lawsuit in connection with another fatal shooting by one of its security guards. Two other lawsuits alleging his guards were negligent have been settled. Arellano's attorney says Lucas Kendall had all the required training and background checks when he was hire. But in Florida, that's not much.
Security guards are required to attend one week of training and three and a half more days to carry a gun. Kendall told police it was self- defense and told the court he didn't want a lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is it that you expect to represent yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I refuse to participate in this charade.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would advise you to do things the easy way. You want a trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want a trial. It's just a charade.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
GRIFFIN: Kendall has been ruled incompetent to stand trial. Kendall's mother, Chris, claimed her son had no mental issues prior to the shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is the victim in this whole thing. He's been attacked in jail several times, beaten, ribs broken, his head has stitches on his face. They had to put him in isolation for longer than 15 months. Isolation. Nobody stays normal in isolation in that amount of time.
GRIFFIN: It has been two and a half years since Arlene Burg's son was killed. The family is still waiting for a trial. ARLENE: My son was crawling underneath the truck trying to get away
and he stood there and continued to shoot. But still he fell for his life. How? How?
COOPER: It's an incredible story. Drew Griffin joins me now. It seems like this could happen again.
GRIFFIN: You know, there are a million armed and unarmed guards in this country.
COOPER: A million.
GRIFFIN: A million. That is nearly double the amount of police officers we have, yet no national standards, no national requirement for an FBI background check. In many of these states, the licensing agency when there is an armed guard shooting, they don't bother to investigate it. So Lucas Kendall could get -- somebody like Lucas Kendall a license today. Absolutely.
COOPER: There is a second part of this report that we are going to air tomorrow night. What is?
GRIFFIN: We are going to look at a state where the oversight is so poor that they had a guy who is actually barred from possessing a gun, granted a license at the same time with disastrous consequences.
COOPER: All right, that will be on tomorrow night on "360."
Drew, incredible. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
If you have a comment on the story or any idea for the investigative, we want to hear from you. Go to CNN.com/investigations.
Just ahead, breaking news. The miserable weather in New York hasn't kept protesters from taking their message to grand central terminal tonight to call for an end to police violence. Details ahead.
COOPER: More breaking news tonight, these are live pictures from the Grand Central terminal in New York. Protesters continuing their call tonight for an end to police violence. It's the seventh straight day of demonstrations in the wake of the grand jury decision to not indict the police officer who used the chokehold on Eric Garner. And protesters aren't the only ones making their voices heard, now over the past week, Pat Lynch, the president of New York's Police Unit has been staunchly defending the grand jury's decision and the officers who arrested Eric Garner. He's also been blasting New York's Mayor Bill de Blasio who spoke bluntly about racism after the grand jury's decision. For those who may not know, Mayor de Blasio's wife is African-American. They are two kids are biracial. Here's what he said about his teenage son, Dante.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D) NEW YORK: Chirlane and I have had to talk to Dante for years about the dangers that he may face. We've had to literally train him as families have all over this city for decades and how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers who are there to protect him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Mr. Lynch has accused the mayor of throwing the NYPD, the New York police department, under the bus. Last night we air part one of my interview with him that generated a lot of reaction. Tonight, part two.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I want to ask you about your comment. You said the mayor has thrown police officers under the bus. How has he done that?
PATRICK LYNCH, PRESIDENT, PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSN.: What you had was the mayor right after the grand jury made their decision. Put on the backs of New York City police officers, decades of racism. And that's just not true. I have 31 years of the New York City Police Department and have never once heard a radio call when a call came over, what race are they? What color are they? Who do they love? Where do they live? It's never, ever happened.
COOPER: And you don't believe race is an issue with New York City police officers as it is?
LYNCH: It's a majority - majority/minority police department. We're out there in the city of New York is made up of everyone. We're doing our job well. We have thousands and thousands of interactions each and every day right outside of this building as we speak. We're doing our job well. We're not looking at who the person is. We're looking at the behavior that leads to the interaction with the police. That's the question, the behavior and why someone called the police in the first place.
COOPER: I talked to the Borough Council President of Brooklyn, Eric Adams. He said that the way police - when he was on the force, the way police in Brooklyn in some communities of color, is different than they police on Park Avenue.
LYNCH: That's absolutely not true.
COOPER: You say categorically not true.
LYNCH: It's not true, look. There's racism in everything. There's racism in every profession that's out there. But on majority, our police officers are going out doing the job. They're really not asking who it is. They're getting a call of a crime. Those calls come from the community. In this case in Staten Island, it was the community that called, not once. It was a chronic location. They went to the community council meetings and complained. We were sent there because the merchants asked us to be there. We didn't just show up. COOPER: But if everybody has inherent biases - that biases that
sometimes they're not even aware of. Aren't those amplified among those who have power over others?
LYNCH: No, I don't believe so. Because you have to look at the numbers of cases that police officer deals with every day and a majority of people leave satisfied. We're not asking who they are. It just doesn't happen.
COOPER: You know, I grew up believing look, the police are there to protect me.
LYNCH: And they are.
COOPER: You know, I knew a policeman pal on my corner when I was growing up as a kid, I used to talk to him every day, I wanted to be him. I talked to a lot of African-American parents who live in a different part of town than I grew up in, and they have a completely different perception of the police.
LYNCH: And look - And I can understand ...
COOPER: Even if you're saying it's not correct, the fact that that perception exists and it's so widespread, isn't that a problem?
LYNCH: I can understand that frustration and I can understand when you watch a video and you are just seeing the portion of it, I can understand being outraged at what you're seeing, not understanding all that went into it. Not seeing the whole video or what led up to that video as well. So, I can understand that. But that's why we need to have a dispassionate conversation about it. Not have rabble-rousers, Al Sharpton, whose business is to stir the street up. If we want to have a real discussion like we are having today, we can disagree, but maybe we can come to a nice medium by having a real conversation. Not rallies blocking the street.
COOPER: So, to an African-American parent out there who feels like, you know what, I have to have this conversation yet again with my teenage son about how you carry yourself in front of a police officer.
LYNCH: I can't place myself at anyone's kitchen table how they feel nor would I disrespect anyone by trying to tell them that, but I what I will say is this. That the neighborhoods in the city of New York are much safer than they were a few short years ago because the police officer was willing to put him or herself at risk for our sons and daughters. And we should all have conversations with our sons and daughters. And part of that is your interaction with the police. Don't put ourselves or hang around with people that will put us in a position of getting in trouble. Again, it's the behavior that leads to the interaction with the police, not who you are.
COOPER: Mr. Lynch, I appreciate you being on. Thank you.
LYNCH: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) doesn't think speak for all police officers. When we aired part one of the interview last night, our next guest was watching and afterward, he reached out to us and asked to come on the program and respond to what Mr. Lynch said. Redditt Hudson is a former St. Louis police officer who is now working on police and racism reform with the NAACP, he's the board chair of the Ethics Project. He joins me tonight.
So, Redditt, when you hear Mr. Lynch there saying that racism isn't an issue within the NYPD, is it possible that there's any police force in this country where some degree of racism isn't a problem and if so, how widespread do you think it is?
REDDITT HUDSON, THE ETHICS PROJECT: I don't think it's possible, Anderson, that there are departments that serve in large urban areas where race isn't an issue. We have too much history. We have too much evidence. So, for him to say in reference to a statement that was made by another former New York city officer, I believe who is currently serving in government up there - government up there.
COOPER: Yeah, Eric Adams, Borough president of Brooklyn.
HUDSON: Yeah, who referenced the fact that he thought they police differently in his community than they do in other communities. It's for that individual, I believe his name was Mr. Lynch, to deny to live the reality of one of his fellow officers and deny to live the reality of millions of brown and black people all over this country.
COOPER: Did you see that yourself when you were a police officer? Different police?
COOPER: And not just different strategies of policing, but different ways?
HUDSON: A different approach. Just a different approach immediately on the part of some of the officers on our department when it comes to dealing with black people on the street. For him to say that when you receive a radio call, we don't ask what color is the person, is you don't have to. You see that when you arrive. And to say that you've been doing a great job when that particular department, I believe, if I'm correct, has settled over a billion dollars' worth of complaints against excessive force and other police misconduct in the last ten or 15 years. You know, I don't know what he's talking about. Yes, it's an honorable profession, but we have people in this profession who willfully and knowingly and maliciously violate people's human rights, civil liberties and civil rights everyday somewhere in this country and it is time to have a dispassionate and honest discussion about exactly that. He's right about that in here.
I saw the segment with him on you last night and he referenced the fact that we put our lives on the line, how dare you question what we do. You sign on for that. I sign on for that, because we took a job, where we risk our lives knowingly, it doesn't give us a license to recklessly risk the lives of the people that we serve and then the film that you saw with Mr. Garner being taken down, the only individual whose life was at risk in that encounter was Mr. Garner.
COOPER: There was a study back in 2000 by the Justice Department and among other things that highlighted discrepancy between what white officers and African-American police officers thought when they came to using physical force against African-Americans and other minorities. 57 percent of African-American officers thought that African-Americans and other minorities were given unequal treatment, but only five percent of white police officers thought that African- Americans were given unequal treatment. That discrepancy to me is very telling.
HUDSON: I think it's very telling too. And I think it goes to the filters that we have when we see ourselves and what we do and why we do it. The fact is, we have ample evidence now with the proliferation of videotapes, cell phones and everything else for mainstream America to see how widespread this problem really is.
COOPER: You believe part of the problem is that police investigate police. They're investigated by their friends. Their friends are the ones having to give the punishments, so they're essentially protected and immune to harsh punishments, even from prosecutors who have to work with them in the future.
HUDSON: Absolutely. I don't think that's hard to understand. Is there any entity that we trust to investigate itself, particularly when there could be punishment at the other end of the investigation if wrongdoing is found? We definitely need to have an independent entity established everywhere, that can provide some oversight and more importantly, some accountability, some punishment, a consequence, a real consequence for officers that abuse their authority and violate the rights of the people they serve. Now it's the time for that.
COOPER: Reddit Hudson, I appreciate you being on. Thank you.
HUDSON: Thank you.
COOPER: Up next tonight, torrential rain, flooding high winds, the nor'easter slamming the East Coast. Getting - and getting anywhere is incredibly difficult. It's one - only one day so far. We are tracking the storm. It's going to go on.
New calls to end police violence here in New York City from Protesters. You are looking live at tonight's demonstration at Grand Central Terminal.
COOPER: Hey, welcome back. Now, the wild weather and nor'easter is dumping a miserable mix of everything. Heavy rain, snow, powerful winds from parts of Pennsylvania to Points North. Already, roads are flooded in a lot of areas. Tonight, 20 million people are under storm warnings or advisories. Here in New York, we are seeing record rainfall totals more than three inches of rain at JFK International Airport today. Close to that amount and several other locations and this is only the beginning. It's going to go on. It's going to be a long lasting onslaught. Meteorologist Jennifer Grey joining us now from the CNN weather center with more. So, what areas really were the hardest hit? It was miserable here in New York City.
JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, it was miserable. And we have two sides of this. We have the rainy side and we have the snowy side. We have snow anywhere from Virginia all the way up to northern Maine and we have rain anywhere from the Carolinas all the way up to southern Maine. So, hardest hit areas as far as the snow goes, it's where it's still happening because it has been coming down for quite some time and so the snow is going to continue to come down for the next day, maybe even more, Anderson. And then as far as the rain goes, the hardest hit was anywhere from New York City to Boston.
COOPER: And a lot of flight delays, obviously.
GRAY: Yeah, a lot of flight delays. If you are anywhere from New York City to Boston, you could have been sitting at the airport for four hours or more. Luckily, those airlines are starting to catch up. Now we are seeing about an hour and a half delays at both JFK and Newark and one of the reasons, look at these wind gusts, 45 to 50- mile-per-hour gusts. If you were sitting at the airport, trust me, you do not want to be flying in that.
COOPER: And what are you expecting for, say, tomorrow morning?
GRAY: Well, this is going to linger, like we said. So, we still have those winter storm warnings in effect all the way from upstate New York to northern Maine. So, that's going to be in effect through Wednesday and we still have those flood watches in effect. They are starting to come down a little bit. New York City was included earlier. No longer the case, but still a couple of those flood watches and warnings still in effect and we are going to possibly see up to a foot of additional snowfall and upstate New York could see the same in northern Maine and we could see an additional four to eight inches of rain in portions of Maine. This low is just being stubborn, and so it's taking a while to get out of here and that's why you are going to see the snow linger, Anderson, for the next couple of days.
COOPER: All right, Jennifer Gray, thank you very much. If you are watching now waiting for a flight, I hope you get on it soon.
There is a lot more happening tonight. Susan Hendricks has a "360" news and business bulletin. Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we start with Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. He's hospitalized tonight with two fractures in his back. The former Heisman Trophy winner was involved in an accident a block from the Panthers Stadium that is video of the aftermath. Witnesses say they saw Cam Newton's truck flip over four times. Officials say the driver of the other car involved in the crash has minor injuries.
And we have new video showing the aftermath of that plane crash into a home in Gaithersburg, Maryland on Monday morning. This is cell phone video. It was shot by one of the first witnesses on the scene. Three people on that small private plane were killed, also three others were killed inside of that home. A mother and her two young sons. On Capitol Hill, MIT economist Jonathan Gruber apologizes for what he
calls thoughtless and sometimes insulting comments about Obamacare. Gruber caused a fire storm when video surfaced of him calling American voters stupid for suggesting that a lack of transparency about the lost financing led to its passage.
And Prince William and his wife, Kate, the duchess of Cambridge, paid their respects at the 9/11 Memorial and museum in downtown Manhattan today. Also, they attended an NBA game the last night. There was a photo of LeBron James and Duchess Kate. In an uproar to that, because apparently, his sweatshirt was full of sweat and you are not supposed to do that, hugged the princess, it's not protocol.
COOPER: You know, that's - to hug the princess when you're sweaty or just not at all?
HENDRICKS: I think at all. You're not supposed to touch or hug the princess. She seemed to be a good sport about it. But people are in an uproar.
COOPER: Who is in the uproar? I mean ...
HENDRICKS: The British media.
COOPER: British people. OK, well, we'll see.
HENDRICKS: We're not.
COOPER: Right. Susan, thanks very much.
Just ahead, an attack in a Brooklyn synagogue, just horrific, caught on video. A 22-year-old student stabbed before police actually killed the attacker.
COOPER: Tonight, new video of another fatal shooting by New York police. This time inside a Brooklyn synagogue. It happened overnight and the video is yet another window onto what police officers face on the job. The split second decisions they have to make and the range of ways they respond to a violent crime. And the man who was killed was armed with a knife and he had already attacked someone according to witnesses. The stabbing victim is in stable condition tonight. And what's most striking about the video that we are going to show you, is that the officers repeated attempts during a fast-moving and stressful situation to try to convince the stabbing suspect to drop his knife and to give himself up. Here's Rosa Flores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
FLORES: A chaotic scene between New York City Police and a suspect armed with a knife inside a Brooklyn synagogue early Tuesday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa ... (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
FLORES: Police say the suspect had just stabbed this man, Levi Rosenblat, in what they call a random attack. The 22-year-old struck in the left temple with what police say was a 9 inch knife with a 4.5 inch blade while in deep study at the Chabad Lubavitch world headquarters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was following the cop running out. It' the cop = ran out.
FLORES: The man who captured it all on video doesn't want to show his face, but he wants to share what he witnessed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just shocking. And the guy was actually running around trying to stab people for no reason. He's not saying, and he's not demanding money and he's not demanding anything. He's just saying, who wants to die tonight?
FLORES: The standoff lasting several minutes. The police repeatedly telling the suspect to put down his blade.
POLICE: Stay away from the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) blood.
FLORES: Meanwhile, a bystander off camera trying to play arbitrator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy is inside is trying to negotiate with him.
FLORES: Also asking the suspect to put down the knife. That didn't work either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's grabbing the knife again in front of the cop.
FLORES: Police say the suspect lunged towards the officer before the officer took a shot. And didn't miss. Shooting the suspect in the chest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't move!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even after he was shot, he wouldn't give up.
FLORES: The suspect identified by police as 49-year-old Calvin Peters, later pronounced dead at the hospital. Rosa Flores, CNN, New York.
COOPER: We'll be right back with the latest. And a protest going on right now in Grand Central station here in New York City.
COOPER: Breaking news. I want to check in with CNN's Nic Valencia who is at Grand Central Station in New York where protest is going on right now. Nic, what's the scene there?
NIC VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson, early on within the last hour we saw this group grow from a very intimate group to now well over a hundred. People are demonstrating here and they say they want reform in the police department. They want to call attention to the death of unarmed civilians. They say it's been a systemic problem for decades in the city.
COOPER: All right. So, Nic, and you're saying there about what - about a hundred people there right now?
CROWD: I can't breathe.
VALENCIA: Yeah, there's about 100 people here right now. They've been by and large very peaceful here, Anderson. The police have allowed them to sort of fluidly move through the city. They so far have been chanting things like I can't breathe. They are drawing attention to the death of people like Akai Gurley, Eric Garner and, of course, the teenager that was killed in Ferguson, Mike Brown.
COOPER: I appreciate the reporting. Thanks very much. That does it for us. We'll see you again at 11:00 p.m. Eastern, another addition of "360". The CNN special report, "Videos Gone Viral" starts now.