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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD
Search Turns to Recovery Effort in AirAsia Accident; USS Sampson on Station to Help as Needed; Rep. Grimm to Resign; Rep. Scalise Under Fire for 2002 Speech
Aired December 30, 2014 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to our viewers across the United States and around the world.
The search for AirAsia Flight 8501 is giving way now to recovery efforts for the plane itself and for the remaining 159 passengers and crew. Three bodies have been found earlier today. Confirmed debris from the Airbus A320 was found and recovered today as well about 6 miles or 10 kilometers from the plane's last known location of the Indonesian island of Borneo.
The head of the National Search and Rescue Agency in Indonesia says three bodies, as I mentioned, have been found and recovered, two women and one man. Victims' remains will be identified in hospitals in the city of Surabaya, Indonesia where the flight bound for Singapore originated early Sunday.
The USS Sampson arrived today in the search zone that it had covered more than 60,000 square miles of the Java Sea. Ships and planes from at least seven other nations are also assisting nearby from Australia and many other countries.
Earlier, CNN's Paula Hancocks went out on a boat near where the bodies and debris were found to see the search efforts firsthand.
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PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a little choppy but the visibility was quite significant. There was only a little bit of rain, really nothing to talk about, so visibility would have been good as well from the air. And clearly as you can see, the aircraft did spot parts of the debris. So, it was -- the weather did hold and that was very conducive to the search and rescue operation certainly.
Now, as soon as we get here, the reports that in fact the location has been identified. The fishing boat we were on turn trying to come back to harbor, it was just a local fishing boat who had offered to help just showing the community here wanting to be part of this and wanting to do everything that they could.
And as you could imagine, the mood coming back to the harbor was very somber. These fishermen were not only trying to help with the search and rescue operation but they are fellow Indonesians and that certainly most of these passengers and crew on board this flight were Indonesian as well.
One man who was part of the fisheries ministry, he was on board to try and look for some of the debris said that he was extremely sad. He was relieved that it had been find but very sad that there was no sign of survivors.
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TAPPER: The USS Sampson arrived at the search area this morning. And a short time ago, we learned that another ship will be deployed.
CNN's Rene Marsh joins us now to explain the U.S. role now that bodies and debris have been found.
Rene, good to see you as always. What do we know about the U.S. assets sent to the area? What can the U.S. do to help this process?
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Right. So Jake, as we know right now there is one U.S. navy ship there, one is on the way. Both of these ships equipped with helicopters which will be very helpful when we talk about recovering wreckage from the ocean's surface.
So we know that that they will be able to provide those assets. We also know that the Indonesians have already made an official request to the United States for sonar equipment and that equipment will be so critical as they move the search underwater.
Essentially, they will be looking for the heavier, larger parts of the aircraft that are, at this point, sitting on the ocean floor.
We do expect that, perhaps, the U.S. contribution will expand even more as the underwater search gets even bigger. Take a listen to what the Pentagon had to say earlier this morning about the search for the black boxes.
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JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: As we've made very clear, we're ready to help in any way that we can. We have assisted in these kinds of searches before, unfortunately, so we have some experience at this.
As you may recall with the Malaysia Flight 370, we provided some towed pinger locators. These are underwater sort of passive sonar devices that are used to help try to detect the pinging of the black boxes. Those could be brought in. Again, we've got no request for that right now, but we're certainly preparing ourselves for the eventuality that they could be used.
We also have something called side-scan sonar, which we also used with Malaysia Flight 370 to try to help find debris on the -- on the bottom surface of the ocean.
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MARSH: All right. So again, it goes beyond just the wreckage that is floating on top of the ocean. What is going to be very critical is a lot of what is below the ocean surface, mainly those black boxes, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Thank you so much, Rene Marsh.
The critical clues about what brought down AirAsia Flight 8501 will hopefully be found on the black boxes that Rene was just referring to, the flight data and voice recorders. But first, of course, searchers have to locate them. We'll look at how they plan to do that next.
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TAPPER: Welcome back. I'm Jake Tapper.
They are the pieces of the puzzle that have the most answers, the so- called black boxes. You hear about them every single time a plane crashes and for good reason, they record just about everything on a flight, pilot conversations, control tower communications, flight data, basically anything and everything investigators might need in order to figure out why a plane went down. But first, of course, you have to find the black boxes.
I'm joined, again, by Chad Myers, CNN meteorologist, David Gallo, CNN aviation analyst and director of special projects at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. We're also joined by Tim Taylor. He's a sea operations and submersibles specialist, also the president of Tiburon -- I know I'm mispronouncing that -- Tiburon Subsea Systems, a company that specializes in ROVs and AUVs and underwater imagery.
Chad, let me start with you. Walk us through what equipment investigators have to find the black boxes and how that exactly works?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right. We call them black boxes. They're orange but they're boxes, two of them, one for data, one for voice and other sounds in the cockpit. The data is very important to know what were the angle of the rudder, what was the angle of the other rudder, what was the angle -- what was the angle -- what was the depth, what was the altitude? All of those pieces of data inside this box and it says "Do not open."
It says "Do not open" for a reason because there are data ports, one here and one here on the other side. You don't need to open this up. Everything is in here. Now if it's damaged and then you try to repair it or massage (ph) the data, sure that's going to happen. But this is 30 pounds.
People joke, "Why don't you just make the whole plane out of the black box?" Because it would never fly. This is a reinforced box here in order to keep that data very secure. So how do you find it? Well, this thing, we call it pings, but that's the idea. It sends out a signal and we're going to drive a signal locator over the top, drag it behind a boat.
That right there would be the TPL-25, but it could be anything. Just listening for that ping at about 37.5 kilohertz, a very high signal there, and it's going to find it. If it finds it, click, click, click -- let's just say it's clicking. You'll see -- you'll hear the click, click, click, it'll get louder, louder, louder, and then softer, softer, softer. They will record where the loudest part is and then they'll drive it the other way and they'll try to triangulate where it's loud in both directions.
And if that doesn't work, then all the sudden -- because this is now a shallow, and I want the other guest to talk about this, because this is a shallow recovery, we're going to be able to do a little bit of a wider, I believe, mowing the lawn because this is isn't at 15,000 feet or 25,000 feet way down there being attenuated on the way up with not much of a click up to the surface.
We're only talking a 100 to 140 feet. And I made that number 100 to 140 because where they found the debris today was 100 but where it may have drifted from is about 140. And then --
TAPPER: Tim --
MYERS: -- after they find the boxes and they determined what is in the box, then they had to go find other things and possibly the bodies that don't come to the surface or other parts of the plane that they want to find. That's when they'll use something that goes down to the bottom like a Bluefin-21.
TAPPER: So Tim, let's talk about that what passes for good news in the story is that the Java Sea is relatively shallow. How important is that in terms of the search and what kind of equipment they might use?
TIM TAYLOR, PRESIDENT, TIBURON SUBSEA RESEARCH: Well, it makes navigation for these vehicles. If we're using autonomous vehicles, as David will tell you, it -- we see the bottom, at the same time, we have our fix on satellite so we know where we are.
The first rule of navigation is to always know where you are. When you're dealing with really deep, deep searches, that trip to the bottom, half an hour, an hour, two hours, is problematic in navigation systems and it's little -- it complicates. It is a lot more equipment (inaudible) and updates from acoustics that they need to give the robot and the robot has to think more.
So, these tools that we can apply in the shallower water are not as robust as what had been done in the Air France or what will be done in 370. It has been done in 370. They can be smaller. They can actually be some towed arrays that are quite common in the marine industry how to look for debris.
So, it should not be as hard and shallow water and you have the diver effect, so we can put divers in which is good.
TAPPER: David, now that debris and bodies have been found, is the search area still going to be 60,000 square miles or can they whittle that down a lot?
DAVID GALLO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes. They'll whittle it down an awful lot and hopefully would be down to within about 10 -- you know, usually right around that last known position. Air France 447 was only about 9 miles from the last known position, so that's probably where to focus the effort on.
And I'll say one thing about the pingers. They need quiet when they're listening for that ping. And one of my worries is that so many ships out there. And if you remember with the Malaysian air situation, in some cases they thought they were hearing the ship that they were on, another nearby ship, so -- so important to have the right condition so that they can do the search properly.
TAPPER: David, let me just stay with you for one sec. How confident are you that investigators will find the black boxes fairly quickly?
GALLO: Absolutely positive they'll find the black boxes fairly quickly, relative term, but I'm expecting, you know, a few days to a week. Hopefully, mostly -- depending on the weather conditions out there, but they've got the right assets. If they got the right plan and the right talent, it should be fairly quickly.
You don't have underwater mountains to worry about playing games with the pinging sounds. And it's a fairly quick trip to the bottom, as Tim said, so that should go by fairly quickly.
TAPPER: All right, David Gallo, Chad Myers, Tim Taylor, thank you so much. Flight 8501 went down in a part of the world where air traffic is on the rise. Is the region ready to safely deal with the volume of planes and people? We'll talk about that. Coming up.
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TAPPER: Despite the three major air disasters in Asia this year, the passenger traffic in that part of the world continues to flourish. Until flight 8501 crashed, more than 200 million passengers had flown on the areas and network with no plane having been lost but what does the future hold?
Let's bring back CNN business anchor and aviation correspondent Richard Quest. Richard, travel in that region significantly up. But I guess the big question, can the government and the regulation and aviation in the region survive all these disasters? Are they equipped for the kind of volume they're doing in the air?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORESPONDENT: That's a very, very salient point at the moment. To put this in perspective, last year U.S. aviation, the number of seats available grew by about 3.5 percent across the whole United States. In Asia, it grew by a minimum, a minimum of 8.5 percent. So the growth in aviation is absolutely phenomenal and not (inaudible) that. We're just talking about Southeast Asia in the Asian area. We're not talking here about adding in China as well. The issue, of course, for many of the smaller countries is this one of regulation.
The low cost carriers in Asia, airlines like Taiga, Nok, Jetstar, AirAsia, the largest of them all is Lion. They are not only growing very fast. They are consolidating. The major carriers have subsidiaries. It is -- I mean, when you think now about the low cost airline model in United States with its JetBlue, Southwest or Spirit for example, it's still dominated by the three network carriers.
What's happening in Asia is the low cost carriers are becoming the bus network of the region.
TAPPER: AirAsia, of course, pioneered the low cost model in Asia, in that region. It's built a strong reputation for affordable and safe flying.
I believe there are seven airlines in Indonesia and five of them are banned from landing in EU, in the European Union because the safety standards are not there but AirAsia is not one of them. They are permitted to land in EU. But I guess the big question, is that now in jeopardy in any way?
QUEST: No, I don't expect that to be in jeopardy at all. And you're talking here about the ban on the Indonesian carriers. This was because these were airlines in Indonesia regulated by the Indonesians including the national carrier at one point, Garuda. And they're all -- they were on there on the so-called blacklist for the European Union. Many of the carriers have now gone back on to -- they can now fly.
But let me talk about Indonesia AirAsia. We have to be a little bit careful. There is an element of semantics about this. Yes, it's regulated by Indonesia. But as an airline, Indonesia AirAsia is part of the AirAsia group and that's Tony Fernandes, that's in Malaysia, that is the whole group. It's got subsidiaries all around the region. They're about to start one in India. Totally, it's got 170 aircraft.
So, yes, there have certainly been legitimate, safety concerns about Indonesian carriers. But I wouldn't put AirAsia in any shape, form or description into that category.
TAPPER: All right, fair enough. Richard Quest, thank you so much.
Turning now to politics, a top member of the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives is defending a speech that he gave to a white supremacist group back in 2002. What could that fallout mean for his future for the Republican Congress that's just ahead?
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TAPPER: Welcome back. We have just learned that former President George H. W. Bush has been released from a Houston, Texas hospital. The 41st President of the United States was taken there by ambulance last Tuesday night as a precaution as being said after experiencing a shortness of breath. Bush's spokesman now says that the former president is resting at home, grateful to the doctors and nurses for the superb care. The elder President Bush is 90 years old.
Embattled New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio was scheduled to meet with the NYPD's union leaders today in an effort to improve relations between City Hall and the police force. Union leaders have said that the de Blasio has been insufficiently supportive of the police siding with protesters instead of the police during rallies after the officer responsible for choking Eric Garner was not indicted. A fire at a shopping center in Lahore, Pakistan in Monday killed at least 13 people. A short circuit sparked the fire and people were forced to flee through a single door. Most of the victims are said to have suffocated.
A small plane crash in the front yard of a home in Southeastern Denver, Colorado this morning killing the pilot, the only casualty in the accident. The plane crashed moments after taking off from Centennial Airport.
Just days from now, the GOP will take complete control of Capitol Hill with the largest task majority since the election of 1928, but the banner year for the House Republicans, well, it's not starting out the way they had hoped. The third highest ranking House Republican Majority Whip Steve Scalise from Louisiana is under pressure. He's calling other House members right now to do damage control. Scalise admitted to having given a speech in 2002 when he was a State Representative to a white supremacist group, one founded by a former Ku Klux Klan leader named David Duke.
Also, New York Republican Congressman Michael Grimm resigning on Monday. He pleaded guilty to debt tax evasion. He admitted to charges that he filed false tax returns, engaged in mail and wire fraud, perjury and hired undocumented workers. Grimm was also separately caught on camera threatening to throw a reporter over a Capitol rotunda balcony.
Ana Navarro is a CNN political commentator. John Avlon writes for The Daily Beast and is a CNN political analyst. Let's start with you Ana, should Scalise step down? Do you think that the scandal is going to go on and on and become a distraction from what the House Republicans want to talk about?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: From what we've seen so far, Jake, no, I don't think it's going to go on and on because the committee has said Scalise himself admitted he was there, has condemned this group, has said he didn't know what their agenda was when he went and spoke there, have told right now shaken out.
So if no other shoe drops, I think, there will not be pressure on Scalise to leave. I've talked to a member of his colleagues including some Hispanic ones who have told me that there is not a racist bone in his body. It's actually the same thing that the one African-American Democrat from the congressional delegation of Louisiana said last night as well talking about him.
So I think, did he have bad judgment? Yes. Was he at the wrong place? Yes. Is it something he shouldn't have done? Yes. And I think he admits all of that, but I don't think it's going to rise to the level unless there is evidence that comes out that he espoused these views, that it's going to rise to the level of pressuring him out.
TAPPER: John, I think there are a lot of people who are skeptical of the idea that somebody who is a skilled political operator as then state representative now Congressman Steve Scalise is and he is admired by many of his colleagues, Democrats and Republicans. The idea that in 2002, he wouldn't know who precisely he was addressing at this Louisiana speech when David Duke had been a very big and important figure in Louisiana politics since the 80s having run for senate, having run for governor. Do you believe him?
JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Jake, I mean, that's the key point here, right? The question is not whether Steve Scalise is racist. The question is whether Steve Scalise knowingly courted racist votes.
And to say you don't know who David Duke is when you're a Republican in Louisiana in 2002, after a decade before David Duke won the Republican nomination and even in 1999, Scalise was courted by roll call is saying that well, David Duke was unelectable that they shared some conservative values.
Once you make commitment to that group, you're not talking about your policies, you're pandering to a racist element in the state. That is heavy, heavy baggage for a party that knows it needs to reach out to minority voters. Yes, Steve Scalise is very well-liked in the conference and it's a jump all moment. But this is going to be one of these things where can they carry that heavy baggage associated with David Duke as they try to rebrand and reform the party? As news comes out for example that he voted against making Martin Luther King their holiday in 2004 more than, you know, two decades after Ronald Reagan made it a federal holiday.
You know, these are serious questions that will cause greater scrutiny and there are going to be a lot more questions to answer, a lot more reporting is being done in real --
NAVARRO: But now guys, in fairness though, he has not said he didn't know who David Duke is, he said he shake his hand and has met him on several occasions. What he has said is that he didn't know this group was associated with David Duke.
And today, there was an interesting interview that came out in the Washington Post not too long ago that said that the guy who organized it, who organized those, if David Duke was living outside of the United States back then, the guy who organized it, Kenny Knight who was a political operative in Louisiana and was Scalise's neighbor asked him to come to this. He spoke before the conference started and he said he never told Scalise what this was about. He just asked him to say a few words before the conference started. So there's a difference between this being a David Duke event and what it ended up being.
AVLON: I'm sorry you're wrong here. The campaign -- this is David Duke's campaign manager running a white nationalist organization. This is not a mystery. This is political pandering that's now caused major national blowback as it should.
TAPPER: Ana Navarro, John Avlon, we got to go right now Ana but we'll talk more about this later on. Thank you so much for watching. Join me back here for the lead at 4 o'clock Eastern Time. Brianna Keilar will now continue our special coverage of the discovery of the debris from the AirAsia plane. Thanks for watching.
