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Searchers Find Bodies and Debris; Three Bodies Recovered; USS Sampson Arrives at Recovery Area; USS Fort Worth Headed to Recovery Area; AirAsia Confirms Debris Is From Missing Plane; Weather Conditions Better Today for Search Crews; Sea 80 to 100 Feet Deep at Debris Location; Sony Hack Latest

Aired December 30, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there, I'm Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem and 1:00 a.m. in Jakarta, Indonesia. Wherever you're watching us from around the world, thank you for joining us.

We begin with the heartbreaking discovery in the waters off of Indonesia. AirAsia has confirmed that debris found in the Java Sea is from Flight 8501. Search crews have also recovered three bodies. One hundred sixty-two people were on board the plane when it lost contact with air traffic control early Sunday.

Here are the latest headlines. AirAsia officials say the focus now is on the recovery effort. The search area is about six miles from the plane's last known location. Analysts say finding the cockpit voice and data recorders, these so-called black boxes, is key to trying to figuring out what went wrong.

A U.S. Navy ship has arrived in the search area. The USS Sampson was dispatched following a request from the Indonesian government. The Pentagon says another ship, the USS Fort Worth, is also getting ready to deploy.

The discovery of debris and bodies is absolutely devastating news for the families of the passengers and the crew. While watching a live news conference on television, relatives saw a body among the wreckage. One woman had to be carried away on a stretcher.

Hospitals in Indonesia are preparing to help identify the bodies being recovered from Flight 8501. And in the meantime, divers and ships equipped with sonar are being sent to the area where the debris was located.

CNN's Andrew Stevens reports on the search for answers and for more wreckage from the doomed plane.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Breaking this morning, a devastating discovery, AirAsia confirming a number of bodies, passengers of AirAsia 8501 found floating in the Java Sea. The victims and debris some six miles from the aircraft's last known location. GEOFFREY THOMAS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AIRLINERATINGS.COM: I think the

debris fields confirms a catastrophic event. I expect that the plane fuselage probably split in two.

STEVENS: Officials saying the debris found belongs to the missing AirAsia Flight 8501. Searchers locating the debris in at least three separate locations. But so far, no survivors. A heartbreaking end to the three-day search for the plane. Relatives of those on board the plane in anguish over the news, screaming, crying. These loved ones set to fly over the search area Wednesday aboard a specially chartered AirAsia flight to pray for their loved ones. It's unclear if families will move forward with that flight.

AirAsia's CEO, Tony Fernandez, expressing his condolences saying, my heart is filled with sadness for all the families involved in QZ8501. On behalf of AirAsia, my condolences to all. Words cannot express how sorry I am.

Now, the somber task of recovering the wreckage, the flight data and cockpit voice recorders and piecing together what caused the plane to go down.

Overnight, audio transmissions from AirAsia 8501's cockpit to air traffic control surfacing providing little to know clues. The pilots cleared for take-off from Surabaya to Singapore but would never arrive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: For more now on the discovery of debris and what this could tell us, I'm joined by CNN Aviation Correspondent Richard Quest, CNN Safety Analyst David Soucie and CNN Aviation Analyst Peter Goelz.

The first of the debris was found six miles from the point of last contact with the plane. What, Richard, does that tell us?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It tells us that the plane, as it left the sky, did so pretty much intact. If it had broken up at a very high altitude, there would have been a much greater spread of debris. If you look at, for example, MH17, if you look at the other examples where planes have broken up actually in the sky, then the debris is spread far and wide. That isn't the case here.

KEILAR: David, does that seem close, when you're talking about crash sites? Do you think crews maybe should have found the debris sooner?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: No, I think that it's right on schedule with what you would expect in this. But back to Richard's point, I'm a little concerned about the lack of debris, actually. There's -- a few of the deceased that are there. The door is there and this raft and the tank that was with it.

Now, all of those things are contained. In fact, the bag itself, all those things are contained in the aft baggage compartment. And that aft baggage compartment door would have come off. The escape slide would have come out as well. And this bag is actually a flyaway kit which is used in case the aircraft has to land somewhere where there's no maintenance. The flyaway kit includes lightbulbs, oil, basic things like that. So, it was not actually a bag from the passengers. It's a bag that's part of the equipment on the aircraft.

So, I'm a little -- I'm kind of hesitant, right now, to make the assumption that the aircraft broke up in flight to the extent where it couldn't fly. Because, at this point, all I know is that the door came off and some things came out of that aft baggage compartment. So, we may have a bigger debris field than we suspected.

KEILAR: OK. So, there's that concern. And then, also, as we're trying -- we don't have the black boxes, at this point. That's, obviously, what the search continues to be, Peter. But we're able to pick up some hints from what we're seeing here. For instance, one of the victims, it appears -- we saw this certainly when the plane broke up over Ukraine after it was shot down. Many of the bodies only clad in underwear, not in clothes. That was the case with one of these bodies floating in the water. What does that tell us?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it might indicate that late in the accident sequence, which would not be unusual, the plane started to come undone at a lower altitude and a few of the passengers, the victims, were ejected. It could indicate that. But, say, it's far too soon. We need to look at the wreckage to see whether it shows tearing or compression damage. And we need to find the main debris field which means they've got to get the sonar detectors in to pick up the pings from the black boxes as soon as possible.

KEILAR: OK. So, how far do you think, David, this debris field could be spread over, then?

SOUCIE: Well, if you look at MH17, it was spread out over about six miles. And that was an in-flight break-up due to the missile and the impact with that missile. So, it can continue to fly. The main body of the section can continue to fly or, once again, it could very well be right where -- right where this debris is and just be all submerged, at this point. But just, again, as Peter said, it's too early to tell. And the key is in the flight control, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.

KEILAR: And, Richard, how long do you think it may take to find that, to locate the wreckage of the plane?

QUEST: Well, if David's assumption is correct in that there's a larger debris field out there, then we're looking at a few more days to actually locate it. And it's done by the usual, traditional ways of reverse drifting, which way the current -- not particularly strong current here, but which way the winds were blowing, which way it's likely to have gone. The -- there's no good news here.

But I -- so, I'll put it in terms of the encouraging news is the fact they have found some debris, like with 447, does allow them to have great confidence in which direction to go forward. So, it is a matter of days or maybe weeks or whatever. I think probably just days before you would find a larger debris field. This isn't deep water. It's not dramatically far from land. It's not the middle of the south Atlantic or the south Indian Ocean.

KEILAR: Yes, and it is shallow, certainly compared to some of these other recoveries that we've talked about. All right, we'll certainly be waiting to find out about those data and voice recorders. Richard Quest, David Soucie, Peter Goelz, stick around with me. We will be coming back to you.

Meantime, this was a violent storm that AirAsia Flight 8501 flew into. It's monsoon season in this area right now. So, what kind of weather will searchers have to endure as they try to find these all important black boxes? Just how far down will they have to look? We will get answers next.

And we want to hear from you. Use hash tag 8501QS on Twitter. Our experts will be here to answer your questions.

Plus, was the FBI wrong to point the finger at North Korea in the hack against Sony? One security firm says, yes. We'll tell you who they believe is behind the hack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The water where debris from AirAsia Flight 8501 has been found is relatively shallow. It's really only about 80 to 100 feet deep, in some places. But searchers may have to deal with wind and currents and some rather challenging weather conditions as they move into this recovery operation.

Chad Myers here now to walk us through it. What all are they facing, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, very big storms, Brianna, that pick up right in the middle of the morning hours, right when you want it to calm down, right when all the assets get there and the daylight is there, it just gets windy. And the wind creates whitecaps. And you're looking for parts of a white plane with whitecaps everywhere. It just doesn't go very well. It's going to be a difficult process. Every time one of these big red blobs, which is thunderstorms, just clustered thunderstorms, runs over the debris field, winds pick up, storms pick up, lightning picks up as well and, all of a sudden, you're scattering that debris even more.

Now, eventually we're going to get the pinger locater on top of the pinger itself and we'll find it. But I think now, I'm on board with David Soucie here with this larger debris field because for so many days, we've had wind. And any little piece of debris that is sticking up n-- and the wind has been coming in from west to the east. Any piece of debris that's sticking out of the water at all will have windage, like a sailboat. And it will float down much faster than something slightly below the surface but not sticking up very much. And so, you're starting now -- now, we're at two and a half days into this with a wind of 30 miles per hour, at times. You can really push some of these pieces of debris pretty far. Here's the deal with this area. Every time it's morning, the storms pick up. Tomorrow night, when the sun sets, it's going to be almost completely clear with very few showers. Now, we'll go ahead to the next morning. What happens? More storms pick up. It's this diurnal process, and opposite of diurnal process that we see here in the states where our storms pick up around 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon. Down there, at the equator -- remember, now, we think about -- we think about the northern hemisphere as having very short days and kind of long nights. Well, this is the equator, so the days and the nights are equal for the equator thing. And we're looking at the currents. We've talked about that. Very little current activity here in this area, at least from where the last known position was to the debris field. I think the debris is getting more spread out by wind than by current -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Chad, thank you so much.

MYERS: You're welcome.

KEILAR: If search-and-recovery crews are able to recover the flight data and cockpit voice recorders, what do we expect to learn? Joining me on the phone to talk about this, we have Alastair Rosenschein. He's an aviation consultant and a former pilot who's actually flown this route that Flight 8501 took. Thanks so much for being with us, Alastair.

As you know, we're learning that there was this two-minute delay between the pilot's request to ascend and the controller's approval. Is this a normal amount of time in that situation and in that area?

ALISTAIR ROSENSCHEIN, AVIATION CONSULTANT (via telephone): Well, hello, Brianna.

There could be a delay for various reasons. One, the controller had to confirm that it is clear to give to him a climb. There will be a delay if there's another aircraft in the vicinity and he has to make some quick calculations as to whether or not this aircraft climbing at its speed will get too close within the certain safety margins with any other aircraft passing either in the opposite direction or above in the same direction. So, you know, it's not - I wouldn't see that as particularly unusual for a two-minute delay.

But the question should really be asked as to why they were asking for a climb in the first place because if this was possibly the flight plan level that they were hoping to achieve, then that would be a normal request. If it was to climb over the top of weather, well then perhaps one should ask whether it's a wise decision to do so over a (INAUDIBLE) storm because it's very difficult to climb over the top of a tropical thunderstorm.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

ROSENSCHEIN: They have quite an extensive vertical development and they grow at a very fast rate.

KEILAR: Yes. ROSENSCHEIN: But it's difficult to second-guess what I think a very,

very experienced crew were doing on the night sitting here - when I'm' sitting here on the ground and reading through press reports.

KEILAR: I want -- you have flown this route. You were an experienced pilot. If this plane did get into a stall, as we think may have been the case if it was ascending and lost air speed that was needed to keep the plane flying, what can you do to get out of a stall like that when this - I mean this is a huge plane.

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, I mean, I'll talk in general terms here. But if you do have a stall at high altitudes, I mean the very first thing you're going to do is lower the nose and apply more power. Full power, in fact. And that is how you would normally recover from a storm. Now, if they're in a climb, they'd probably go pretty much like full power anyway. So the only thing left to do is to lower the nose and - of the aircraft so that it gains speed.

Now, we're probably thinking here of the Air France accident where the - this was over the Atlantic, when the aircraft actually impacted the sea. And that was because the first officer was holding the nose of the aircraft up because he was getting a false air speed indicator warning because of a faulty pitot tube that had iced up in these conditions.

But that is unlikely to be the case here because it either got a different type of pitot on the A-320 or, alternately, more importantly, that fault has been rectified. So, you know, it's a question of, you know, what actually happened on the day there. But, generally speaking, with a stall, that recovery is as I explained.

KEILAR: Put the nose down and get the speed up. So you're looking now -- since we spoke yesterday, there is now new evidence having found some of the debris from this plane. With what you know about the debris that's been found, the fact that one of the bodies seen was not clothed, was only wearing undergarments, what do you - what can you determine from what happened?

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, you know, I'm -- this is slightly outside of my field. And all I can speak is from what I know from previous accidents. But if an aircraft was to break up in the air, then it's not unusual for the people on board to lose their clothing in the fall. But the same thing could happen on impact. But as I say, this is not my field of expertise.

KEILAR: Yes. All right. And certainly it's really those black boxes that we'll be waiting for to really answer all of these questions. Alistair Rosenschein, thanks for joining us on the phone.

And now that some of the wreckage of AirAsia has been discovered, crews will be able to go under water, they'll start searching for the rest of the plane. We'll have a look at how they might be doing that, next.

And one security group says North Korea was not behind that attack on Sony. They think they know exactly who is. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: In other news, a health care worker who has been diagnosed with Ebola is now in a London hospital. The woman, a nurse, was transferred there from Scotland. She was a volunteer who was sent to Sierra Leone by the government last month. She's the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the United Kingdom and the second to be treated at the special isolation unit at London's Royal Free Hospital.

A cyber-security firm disputes the FBI's claim that North Korea was behind a huge and rather embarrassing hack of Sony pictures. Members of Norse Security met with the FBI for three hours yesterday to argue that disgruntled Sony employees were probably behind this data breach, not North Korea. The firm's CEO explains some of its reasoning last night on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM GLINES, CEO, NORSE SECURITY: The suspects have -- at least one -- had tied to - and critical knowledge of Sony systems, I.P. addresses, credentials, et cetera. And also had motive for being what I would say would be upset at Sony due to reorganization that happened within the department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So, was the FBI wrong to point the finger at North Korea? CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown has been talking to the FBI about it.

So, the FBI meets with Norse and then what does the FBI say after that meeting? Are they won over at all or no?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely not. The FBI unequivocally stands behind its initial assessment, Brianna, that North Korea is the sole suspect in the Sony hack. We know the FBI, a couple of weeks ago, announced it publically, backing up their case, and they say nothing on that front has changed, that there's no credible information to indicate that any other individuals were involved with the Sony hack.

So we talked about the fact that the FBI met with this - with cyber experts from the company Norse last night. This company actually launched its own independent investigation. And the company says it shared data with the FBI, Brianna, indicating that other individuals, not directly linked to the North Korean government, were involved in the hack, including a former Sony employee of 10 years who was laid off last May. So, Norse contends that this employee is actually the one that gave the top secret administrator credentials and handed it over to the hackers, Guardians of Peace, who then claimed responsibility for the hack.

But the FBI is saying, again, no information - no credible information to back that up. And they say their assessment didn't just come from their own investigation but also the investigation with foreign partners, Department of Homeland Security and others. KEILAR: So they're saying there was no disgruntled employee involved

in this?

BROWN: They're saying there's no credible information to back up the idea that anyone outside of the North Korean government was involved in this hack. Now, the investigation is ongoing, so I think it's important to point that --

KEILAR: Yes. And it takes time, yes.

BROWN: It takes time. But I will say, from very early on in this investigation, earlier than normal from what I've seen in cyber investigations, there was a strong sense that the North Korean government was behind it from the beginning. Norse contends that the Sony - a disgruntled Sony employee, you know, took the credentials and the information was taken off the system and then North Korea got involved later on.

KEILAR: OK.

BROWN: The FBI saying, look, we believe North Korea's the sole suspect here.

KEILAR: Is Norse credible? Are they good at this?

BROWN: So Norse is - there's many cyber security firms. Norse is not the firm that was brought in from the private sector to help investigate. That was Mandiant (ph). Mandiant was brought in by Sony to help investigate.

So Norse is a firm that basically took it upon themselves to look into this. And so what they did is they looked at human resources documents that were dumped online by the hackers and cross-referenced that with other information in order to come to this conclusion. But as you heard the CEO said, they're pretty convinced by their theory.

KEILAR: All right, pretty interesting. And we really want to get to the bottom of this.

BROWN: Absolutely.

KEILAR: So we'll keep digging along with you.

BROWN: An ongoing saga.

KEILAR: That's right. Pamela Brown, I'm sure I'll see you again very soon on this story.

BROWN: Yes.

KEILAR: Thank you.

And coming up, we have more on the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501. We'll take a closer look at where the debris was found. We'll show you the different underwater devices that may be used to retrieve it.

And then later on, our panel of experts will answer your questions about Flight 8501. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)