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Search Resumes for AirAsia Victims as Weather Improves; AirAsia Plane's Tail Might Have Been Found; 7-Yr. Old Survives Plane Crash Walks for Help; Southern Illinois Town Remembers Family Killed In Plane Crash; Buckingham Palace Denies That Prince Andrew Had Sex With An Underage Girl; Dershowitz Denies Sex With Underage Girl; Ferguson Grand Juror Wants Gag Order Lifted; Kurdish Fighters Claim 80 Percent Control of Kobani; Mayor: Police Disrespectful to Turn Backs; ESPN Anchor Stuart Scott's Rare Cancer

Aired January 5, 2015 - 21:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 HOST: Hey good evening, thanks very much for joining us 9 p.m. here in New York, 9 a.m. out in a very stormy Java Sea where the search is back under way for the wreckage of Air Asia Flight 8501 and the bodies of 125 people which have yet to be recovered. The investigation tonight, yielding to new theories about why the Airbus A320 fell from the sky on a flight from Surabaya, Indonesia to Singapore, the latest being that ice on the plane's two engines triggered the deadly chain of events. This is from Indonesian officials. There are reports as well that the plane's tail section, where one of the black boxes is located might have been found. Now we have yet to confirm that.

All the same, there is plenty happening at this hour, the latest from Paula Hancock who's just back from a trip on one of the search vessels. Talk to me about how difficult it is, the conditions out there, the search, the wreckage and the victims. It's been slowed down by this rough weather.

PAULA HANCOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Anderson, you can see its glorious whether here on land at the moment but that means nothing of that. The military helicopter just taking off behind me right now, it's a group of Muslim clerics privates on board, a group of Imam, who are going to fly over the search area and say a prayer for all those victims who lost their lives in that Air Asia crash.

Now on Sunday, we had a chance to get right into the middle of that search area, Sector 4 with one of the search and rescue boats and see exactly what those weather conditions would be like and then not good, Sunday was supposedly better than most other days, having this feel, very windy, the wind, the waves were very high. The crew was looking out to see if they could see anything with the naked eye, I was looking as well. And if you saw something, it just disappear within a second behind the waves, cut off and you wouldn't see it again, it is very challenging.

Now, one of the crew members did saw something, they pulled it in, and then another larger boat came and picked up a feet from the aircraft, showing just how important it is that they do have plenty of eyes on the surface of the water. But of course it's under the water that they really want to get to be seeing. We know the US had employed side-scan sonar at this point that divers are struggling. Zero visibility was being called and you could see with these conditions that we saw on Sunday, just how sloppy the sea is. Now, you don't expect it to be calm. It is the middle of the Java Sea. Because this is the middle of the monsoon season and officials here are telling me the weather is by far the biggest obstacle in this operation. Anderson?

COOPER: And I'm sure the ship that you were on which was relatively small compared to some of the other crafts that were out there, you actually had to turn around after completing only half the mission.

HANCOCK: That's right. The mission was to transfer everything on location, so one of the largest ships was able to stay out in the sea the entire time which is obviously crucial. They just have might managed to do that, the expert, you know, were supposed to jump across between ships, did until the end because the ship was banging together and it's simply too dangerous. And they also tried to get the inflatable boat across, so which is needed to operate this thing as locator. That failed as well, so we know they've headed out again and then they have to try and to try and carry out that mission.

But the fact is, it's the largest ship that is doing the bulk of the work here. We know the US had two ships like that, at the moment going with a couple of helicopters on board. It's a real international effort. We've got Russia, France, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore to name just a few with a lot of assets in this search zone. But of course, unless the weather is enabled to be improved, all the best equipment in the world really have some serious limitations, Anderson?

COOPER: Paula, I appreciate the update, Paula Hancock, thanks. Now more on the undersea vehicles that are taking part in the search, and as Paula said, some very difficult conditions, they can do what divers often can not. However Stephanie Elam reports, even these maritime versions, the air borne surveillance drones are not super human, when it comes to operating rough waters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no line to the surface. They're totally autonomous.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Its' 1600 pounds of technology, plastic and foam, engineered to withstand the pressure of diving 20,000 feet below the surface. This $3 million AUV or autonomous underwater vehicle belongs to the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. AUV technology will likely be used in the search for Air Asia Flight 8501. This one is built to float, every bit of weight added has to be counterbalanced.

DOUG CONLIN, MONTEREY BAY AQUARIUM RESEARCH INSTITUTE: It's little tiny, tiny, tiny micro glass sphere encased in epoxy. You can't really see them.

ELAM: Oh wow, we can't see it? Larger glass spheres encase the technology. CONLIN: If we have a computer on the bottom side here that runs all

the flight code, it tells the vehicle which way to go. It keeps track of the mission. It logs a lot of the data.

ELAM: With these batteries, this AUV can stay down for 16 hours. While there, it also measures salinity and temperature.

CONLIN: With those two measurements, we can calculate the speed of sound in water. It is a really important measurement when we're working with sonars.

ELAM: Also on board is an incredibly accurate navigation system.

CONLIN: NAC for mapping vehicle, that's an instrumental thing that you want to work in every time.

ELAM: To get a mission underway, the operator sends a command to the AUV that gets picked up by this device.

CONLIN: Once everything chips out, we have good navigation, down on the bottom, we'll have to go to bottom.

ELAM: While only 80 to 100 feet deep, the Java Sea presents its own challenges. The rough weather could affect the AUV's performance, and huge swells could make retrieving the unit from the open water challenging as well.

CONLIN: We have to get it close enough into the ship actually, hook it, but far enough away, we don't want it bouncing off the ship.

ELAM: They got it, latched in.

CONLIN: Here we go.

ELAM: And these vehicles are modular. So they can swap out technology based on a mission. That part has evolved with time. One thing that hasn't changed is that each mission is a very slow process. And then it takes time to download the data, and then analyze it. Stephanie Elam, CNN off the Coast of California.

COOPER: Now this of course is David Gallo's specialty, he called at the search for Air France, flight 447, in these days is also seen an analyst with this as well, seen an aviation analyst and private pilot, Miles O'Brien. So David, Indonesia authority, they're trying to confirm, they found, they think is the tail of the plane. Do we know exactly what is contained there? I mean, in terms of the black box, is it the flight data recorder, what would be there?

DAVID GALLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well you know, it depends on how much of the tail they got. On this version of the Airbus 320, the black box is up a little bit further in the aircraft, so it just depends on how much of that tail section they got. And hopefully, they did get a part of the tail section. That even that part has not been confirmed yet, Anderson.

COOPER: And Miles, there are thousands of this kind of airplane in use, the Airbus A320, the idea that this crash could have been because of a flaw, is pretty seriously scary considering how many people are flying on these planes every single day and it makes it hard to understand why efforts to install, to make live streaming tracking are moving so slowly.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot of resistance to this Anderson. And I think really when you get down to the bottom line, it is the bottom line, the airlines don't want to spend the money. It's technologically possible to send out streams of data, when an aircraft is in trouble, and we would know all these important answers right now, and yes, the family tragedy is bad enough. But there is the possibility that there is some kind of flaw that the whole world needs to know about right now, and airplanes are flying with them and that's why, this has to stop.

COOPER: And you know, David, I keep thinking about these divers, you know, rough conditions, you got huge wells on top like currents underneath, zero visibility and all manner of twisted zeal and debris that could cut a diver, that could seriously injure a diver, that could trap a diver.

GALLO: Yeah, it would be horribly dangerous to be around a wreck like this, with all the jagged edges and whatnot as you say. Almost, even more so, to endure it in order to find the black box, in order to remove some of the bodies that may be trapped inside, it's a horrible situation to be in. And you know, it's not something that's going to go away in a day or two. It's probably going to take days for the currents to settle down, and maybe even longer for visibility to improve.

COOPER: David, doesn't some military aircraft have black boxes that essentially eject from the aircraft itself? Why wouldn't civilian airliners have that as well if part of the danger for divers is actually entering the wreck try to get these black boxes?

GALLO: Another good question, about why we don't think about these things. To me, it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to work beneath the surface of the sea.

COOPER: Miles, we talked a little bit last hour about how Air Asia was not licensed to fly on Sunday, licensed four days during the week but not on Sunday, the day that flight actually took off. You think this raises broader questions about how the airline itself is operating?

O'BRIEN: Yeah, I don't think it's actually going to be a direct contributing cause to this accident that you know, somehow this additional aircraft overwhelmed the air traffic control system and made it difficult for them to evade the weather. I don't buy that. But I do think it says enough a lot about how the airline might be operating and how the regulators may be operating or not so well, in that part of the world.

You know, aviation safety is all about a million tiny little technological things that you have to get right. You have to dot every "I" and cross every "T". And so when you look at the face of things and you see that there's an eye that isn't dotted, or there's a weather report that was non standard, all those things start to add up and that begins to erode what we call aviation safety.

COOPER: David, in terms the conditions, obviously it's too dangerous for divers. Can robots, can undersea vehicles, can they be used, I mean a shallower water, but still a zero visibility is still a zero visibility.

GALLO: That's right Anderson, and I thought initially that you know, ROV which has got a cable attached to a ship, would be OK, but that's not, you've got to hold the ship fairly still under these conditions that's tough. And with those currents at the bottom top, and we know with the AUVs like the one which you saw in the clip, but they're going to get pushed around quite a bit by the currents. They're just unequipped to handle high speed currents like this. So, its' really catch 22 in many, many ways.

COOPER: And the monsoon season last, through to April. David Gallo, I appreciate it, Miles O'Brien as well.

Coming up next, what a 7-year-old girl is facing now after a plane crash have claimed the lives of her sister, cousin and both of her parents.


COOPER: Well tonight, a 7-year-old girl is back in her hometown. Tragically though, she's not at home. Home for Sailor Gutzler is her parents. Home is her sister.

Friday night, Sailor, her mom and dad, her sister Piper and her cousin were all onboard the family plane flying home from Key West when they went down in Kentucky. She was the sole survivor. She walked away from the crash site, through the cold and somehow made it to the home of Larry Wilkins.


LARRY WILKINS: I heard no noise or whatsoever and when she told me a plane crash, of course immediately, I looked outside to see if there was any smoke or anything like that and there was not. And so I brought her in the house and propped her feet up and called 911 and got hold of a police officer and fortunately, he was real close to the house.


COOPER: And tonight Sailor Gutzler's hometown is obviously in shock. George Howell is there for us. George, you're in National Illinois tonight, what -- I mean, how is the community dealing with this?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know Anderson, it really is sort of a mix of emotions here in this town. On one hand, you know, people are celebrating what many call a miracle. You know, the fact that this 7-year-old girl, that Sailor Gutzler managed to survive a plane crash and at night, make her way through the brush and trees to find help. People are grateful that she is alive.

But on the other hand, look, this is a community that is in mourning at the loss of the Gutzler family and the fact that Sailor, you know, must now grow up without her mother, her father, her sister and her cousin and really that affects people here in many different ways. I mean, this is a community where people take pride, a small town, and you know where people take pride in knowing each other.

It's a town of about 3,200 people and I understand that about a third of the population, nearly 900 people attend the same church, Anderson, the Trinity Lutheran Church and that's where Marty Gutzler attend the church. Take to listen to what his pastor had to tell us this evening.


MATTHEW WIETFELDT: This is a devastation for our community. A community can never ever prepare for something like this. And we are -- we're hurting. We're so saddened by the loss and are grieving the loss of Marty and Kim and Piper and Sierra as well. And this is just -- this is a blow to us.


COOPER: And -- I mean, have they already made plans for the funerals yet?

HOWELL: Yeah. Anderson, they're planning that. We understand that Sierra Wilder's services will be held on Wednesday. And the services for Piper, Kimberly and Marty, they should all be held on Friday. But important to know, that Anderson, the family is expecting these to be private services.

COOPER: George Howell, I appreciate that. I talked to Sierra's mom in the last hour who, Sierra was 14, she died on that flight as well. Her mom described this little girl who loves spending time with her family, loved being with her family more than anything.

A fundraising site has been set out for Sailor Gutzler, the 7-year-old sole survivor of the crash. That website is at We'll put that on our website as well,

We're now on what Sailor is going through, what others in her situation have faced into the extent that anyone can and have to overcome. Jason Carroll has that story.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What lies behind the smile of this 7-year-old girl is the kind of courage seen in those well beyond her young years. That's what Larry Wilkins thought when Sailor Gutzler showed up on his front porch late Friday night and told him an incredible story.

LARRY WILKINS: She said, my mom and dad are dead. We just had -- we had a plane crash. CARROLL: Gutzler and her family took off from Key West, Florida early Friday, onboard, her father who was piloting the twin-engine aircraft along with her mother, her 9-year-old sister and 14-year-old cousin.

The plane ran into trouble and crashed in a wooded area in Kentucky. Sailor was the only survivor. How was she able to survive the crash? And then endure hiking three quarters of a mile through dark, cold woods without shoes or warm clothes, still unknown.

WILKINS: The little girls was -- she was amazingly composed for a 7- year-old girl.

CARROLL: Her story of survival was rare but there are others, documented in the CNN film "Sole Survivor".

In 1987, Cecelia Cichan was just 4 years old when she was the sole survivor of Northwest Airlines Flight 255. One hundred fifty four people were killed when the airline crashed on takeoff in Detroit including her entire family.

Decades later, she still has scars and something more.

CECELIA CICHAN, NORTHWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT 255 CRASH SOLE SURVIVOR: I got this tattoo. This is a reminder of where I've come from.

CARROLL: Cichan credits luck for her survival. Austin Hatch believes a higher power may have helped him.

AUSTIN HATCH, PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR: I think God had his hand on me and I think it was a plan for my life.

CARROLL: In 2003, when Hatch was just eight years old, the small plane his father was piloting crashed, killing his mother and siblings. Hatch and his father survived. Then tragically, eight years later, in 2011, Hatch was in another crash. This time, his father, again the pilot, was killed as was his step mother. Hatch was the only survivor.

His brain injury, so bad, he had to relearn to walk and even talk. Now, just a few years after the second crash, he's on a basketball scholarship at the University of Michigan and scored his first career points last month.

HATCH: Basketball has sort of, has given me something to shoot for. And it has been my goal, you know, which is from -- when I woke up in a comma.

CARROLL: What they all have in common is not just a shared tragedy but a will to survive.

Jason Carroll, CNN New York.


COOPER: Let's dig deeper now. We're joined by the director of that film "Sole Survivor", Ky Dickens. Ky, I appreciate, you've been with us. I find it interesting the clips that we just saw. Most of these survivors, and people survived mostly, sole survivors are either children or flight crew, why kids?

KY DICKENS, DIRECTOR, "SOLE SURVIVOR": You know, it's really a matter of physics, you know. Children have less body mass and therefore the impact is less great. There's less inertia and there's more survivable space. They're often protected by the seat and so you know, what we found is it's really a matter of random chance but also just the physics of the situation. And in terms of the crew members, they have more safety belts than the rest of the passengers.

COOPER: Did you find anything that linked the survivors together either in terms of how they survived? Though we just talked about how kids survived but more -- I guess more about the after effects of being the sole survivor.

DICKENS: Yeah, I mean afterward, I think the number one thing that all survivors need is privacy. They need the ability to go back to a normal life. You know, there's something that we found that's called -- we called it the double vacuum whereas quite often when you are a sole survivor, it's such an amazing human interest story that it covers the news cycle for a long time and that almost diverts the healing for the survivors because for a while, they're distracted, you know.

And then, all of a sudden when the media attention stops and the public interest stop, it's like another vacuum and they have to deal with the grief all over again much later after the accident occurred.

COOPER: Did you find also a lot of -- I mean, you know, to be labeled a miracle survivor, that's a lot of pressure and did you find anybody or people who were sole survivors who found in trying to come up with what their reason in life was? I mean, why did they survive and others not?

DICKENS: Well, you know, it is interesting because one thing I was very surprised by when making the film is how often the survivors would say, "I don't like the word miracle," because what it does is it adds a lot of pressure to the life where suddenly they feel so they need to, you know, come up with a care for cancer or have some unparalleled living, you know, reason for living.

And, so miracle I think can be a word that it's said with a great intention, you know, and it's a very loving thing to say. I think it's coming from a good place but it puts a lot of pressure on survivors. And, you know, one of the thing a lot of the survivors struggled with well is if you say that they survived for a reason or you're saying that everyone else didn't, you know, and I think that's difficult for us to wrap our heads around.

So, with most of the sole survivors that we dealt with in the film, they've pretty much all come to the place that this is random chance.

COOPER: And also, you talked to people had been flight crew, who had been pilots.

DICKENS: Yeah, sure. Jim Polehinke was one of them. He was the only survivor of the Comair Flight 5191.

COOPER: He was a copilot.

DICKENS: He was the copilot, yeah.

COOPER: And for -- I mean, did that -- was there a special burden for him in that?

DICKENS: Well, that is an unbelievable burden, you know. He wishes that he would have gone down with the ship. Everyday of his life is truly a living hell where he wishes he would have died. And, you know, there is the compounded feeling of being responsible when you're part of the chain of event that leads to a plain crash.

And so, hat's a level of survivor skill that I don't think, you know, very few people can understand but children don't deal survivor skills in the same way as adults, you know.

COOPER: Did it help to -- for them -- obviously with the people who were kids when they survived later in life to meet others who had been sole survivors as well?

DICKENS: Well, yeah, absolutely. You know, one thing that I was very surprised by when making the film is, you know, survivors, especially the sole survivors of these plane accidents don't have a community.

You know, they don't feel as thought they can be a part of the flight family community that go and grieve because they feel is though even though often they lost loved ones and sometimes their entire family don't feel and so, they can go and be a part of that same, you know, group of family members and then obviously there's no one else that understands what they went through.

So, it's a very singular, lonely experience and many of the sole survivors that we met on work in the film had never met another sole survivor. And in doing so, it can be extremely helpful because finally you have someone who understands what you're going through and, you know, that's important in this case in particular because so often the public meets them with this idea of you're so lucky.

COOPER: Right.

DICKENS: You're so lucky you lived. You walked away with your life. But they walked -- yeah, because they didn't walk away with their lives as they knew it.

COOPER: Right.

DICKENS: You know, they've lost an insurmountable amount of everything. It could be innocents. It could be family. It could be alum (ph). And so, the idea of being lucky, you feel bad saying, "Well, I don't feel lucky to have survived." So, having each other is huge.

COOPER: And then, the remarkable thing in the film, you talked to people who have never talked publicly before about this experience. I appreciate you being with us. You can see scene in the film "Sole Survivor" Friday night, midnight Eastern right here on CNN.

Up next though for us tonight, we're live all the way to 10:00 hour tonight, Buckingham Palace emphatically denying claims that that Britain's Prince Andrew had sex with an underage girl. However, the Duke of York is not the only one caught up in the allegations, a prominent American lawyer has also -- his name has also been involved in this.

He is denying it categorically the latest on the case coming up.


COOPER: Well, certainly isn't the first scandal of the Buckingham Palace has faced but it's one of the most explosive allegations that Prince Andrew had sex with an underage girl more than a decade ago. And a lawsuit claims that the girl, a minor was essentially a sex slave to the rich and famous including Prince Andrew and prominent American Attorney Alan Dershowitz.

Dershowitz strongly is denying the allegations categorically since this woman's lawyer should be disbarred and he's going submit (ph) that happens. British royal family is also fighting back. Max Foster joins us tonight with the latest.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this was meant to be a positive start for the year for the British royal family with a new baby expected later in the year, also with the Queen due to become the longest serving monarch in British history. But instead, 2015 started out with an exercise in damage limitation.

When the scandal of the palace, it usually goes quiet, not this time though. Not one but an unprecedented four statements issued in response to a lawsuit alleging Prince Andrew had sex with an underage girl several times in three years from 1999 to 2002. One even went as far as specifically naming his accuser, saying it is

emphatically denied that his Royal Highness, the Duke of York had any form of sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts. The allegations are false and without any foundation.

Roberts referred to as Jane Doe #3 in court papers filed last week alleges that she was kept as a sex slave for three years by the Prince's former friend, billionaire businessman and convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. During this time, Roberts claims she was forced to have sexual relations with the Prince when she was a minor in London, New York and on Epstein's private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands in an orgy with numerous underage girls.

According to the court filing, Epstein told Roberts to give the Prince whatever he demanded and required and to report back to him on the details. The prince had come on to harsh criticism for his friendship with Epstein back in 2011. He later resigned as an ambassador to British trade. According to the court documents, Robert says Epstein routinely lent her to powerful figures for sex including well-known criminal defense attorney, Alan Dershowitz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ATTORNEY: It's the legal equivalent of writing graffiti on a bathroom wall and then running away. But I will take action. I'm filing today a sworn affidavit denying categorically the truth. I'm seeking to intervene in the case. I am challenging her to file rape charges against me. I waive any statute of limitations, any immunity because if she files a false rape charge against me, she goes to jail. The end result of this case should be, she should go to jail, the lawyers should be disbarred, and everybody should understand that I am completely and totally innocent.



FOSTER: Dershowitz says if he is innocent, he assumes Prince Andrew is, too. CNN doesn't normally name alleged victims of sexual abuse. But in this case, Roberts opted to go public giving an interview to British tabloids. And to the statement reacting to the denials from Dershowitz, Prince Andrew and Epstein.

Roberts insist that she will pursue all available recourse, saying these types of aggressive attacks are exactly the reason why sexual abuse victims typically remain silent and that she's not going to be bullied back into silence.

Whatever the truth, this alleged sex scandal threatens a reputation not just of the prince but of the monarchy. The palace was quick to dismiss the suggestion that Roberts have met the queen saying there was no record of it.


FOSTER: And Prince Andrew has returned from holiday. He's back in the U.K, no doubt holding meetings with his officials and with lawyers but I'm told he won't be making any official comments himself on this scandal. Anderson.

ANDERSON: Thanks, Foster. Max, thanks very much. Joining me now senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jeffrey Toobin. He was a student of Alan Dershowitz in Harvard Law School also with his senior legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos.

Jeffrey, they're not in named -- they're not being accused of any crime. There's -- why are they even named in this one?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is such a bizarre lawsuit to start with. This is a lawsuit where these women are suing the U.S. government.

ANDERSON: Well, it's not just this one woman, there are several others who were suing the federal government.

TOOBIN: For making a plea deal with Jeffrey Epstein that they feel doesn't protect that adequately. I've never heard of a lawsuit like that.

ANDERSON: He was able to cop (ph) to a state charge which was a lesser charge. They gave him, I think 18 months of prison --

TOOBIN: Right.

ANDERSON: -- and avoid the federal charge.

TOOBIN: Correct. I've never heard of alleged victims being able to file a lawsuit like that much less succeeding in one. And it is especially bizarre. That in that lawsuit, they are allowed to file this -- these affidavits alleging this other supposed sexual misconduct and as you point out, Alan was a teacher of mine. Dershowitz has remained, you know, a friend of mine for many years but it seems at particularly outrageous that she is accusing him because he was one of Epstein's lawyer.

ANDERSON: That's the thing that's so crazy to me about. When you actually look at the details of this thing, the allegations that he was doing this on airplanes while he was representing Jeffrey Epstein on sexual abuse charges, the idea that he would be having -- was abusing a minor in multiple locations, it just seems ridiculous.

TOOBIN: It does seem ridiculous and if you look at out Dershowitz affidavit which he released today. He said that virtually every time he was in these places that are described in the affidavit --


TOOBIN: -- he was with his wife, right?

ANDERSON: Mark, I mean, there are both issued statements, is there anything else that they can do? Alan Dershowitz would said, he's -- he wants the prosecutors lawyers disbarred because had they done a modicum of research, they could have seen that that -- these allegations were false.

MARK GREGAROS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, look. The -- when he comes out and you can understand that he is upset and I know, Alan as well. In fact, who is just talking to him behind your studio about a month ago at length had a nice chat and obviously, he is disturbed by this. But the idea that somehow, he's going to get the lawyers disbarred, I think is far fetch.

I -- what he is trying to do is by filing the declaration or making public the declaration. He's also saying he's going to try and intervene in this lawsuit and surprise, surprise, Jeff and I disagree a little bit. The lawsuit is not that bizarre because there is something called the Crime Victims Act.

They are alleging that what happened here is the federal government gave him a pass, Epstein, with a NPA which is a non-prosecution agreement and then flip them over to the states so that he would do easier time and get out basically. And that they, under the act have the ability to sue over this.

And now, what they're trying to do is they're trying to add some other victims. So, what Allen is trying to do is insinuate himself into the lawsuit because he's mentioned in it, and then, try to get some kind of relief, take the positions or have some ability to do discovery.

The problem that he's got is lawyers are generally protective by what's called the litigation privilege. And so, you're -- as long as it's connected to the lawsuit and as long as it has some relationship to the judicial proceedings, it's -- virtually impossible for you get in there --

ANDERSON: But, Mark, what about

GERAGOS: -- in terms of the lawsuit itself.

ANDERSON: Mark, what about Dershowitz point which is why don't these lawyers come forward and make these accusations on television. He is challenging that and come forward because he says this is all being done in, you know, this dispositions or in secret core documents that if they actually came forward, they could be sue.

GERAGOS: Well, that's exactly what he wants them to do because as long as it's just an allegation that's contained in a lawsuit, they're going to have a litigation privilege which means they gotten immunity, they can't be sued.

So, he's daring them. "Come on, come on. Come out wherever you are. Get on to T.V. Say something on TV then --


TOOBIN: I mean, I think, Mark.

GERAGOS: -- I paged out of the playbook of (inaudible) case.

TOOBIN: I think, Mark has a point about the precise legal merits of whether Alan Dershowitz could sue or get these people disbarred. But, I guess I'd like to sort of step back from the legal technicalities, and said like why. Why would you do something like this that is solely designed to humiliate and embarrassed Alan Dershowitz.

ANDERSON: I tell you, it's designed to get attention for your case except for these lawyers to get their names in the press. It's the same. I mean --

TOOBIN: I mean, Paul Cassell who was one of the lawyers for the...

GERAGOS: Right, former judge.

TOOBIN: Former federal judge, someone who is very active in the victims rights movement. He was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing case on behalf of the victims.

GERAGOS: And I tell you something about Paul Cassell.

TOOBIN: Please, Mark.

GERAGOS: Let me tell you something about Paul Cassell. I just -- I had a case just recently where -- and he has been activate in the victims rights movement. TOOBIN: That's true.


TOOBIN: But, I mean, how about having a sense of decency along the way. I don't know how filing these unproven really salacious charges --

GERAGOS: And also, let's just get the ton of coverage because prince -- Anderson, is --

ANDERSON: But, I guess --

GERAGOS: -- which is name is in it. And then, when nothing comes of it, it doesn't get equal reporting that all of this was dismissed or nothing ever happens with this. We got to go return, Mark Geragos.

TOOBIN: Right. You can't -- you can't --


ANDERSON: It's like the allegation anyway. All right. Jeff, thanks very much.

And we will continue (inaudible) had a twist that few (inaudible) coming in the Michael Brown case. A member of the grand jury, the decline to indict Officer Darren Wilson said the public doesn't have an accurate impression to grand jury's decision and is now suing to lift the gag rule that prevents George from speaking out, details no matter how.


COOPER: Tonight, a surprising new twist on Michael Brown case, a member of the grand jury to decline to indict Officer Darren Wilson is now suing the St. Louis County Prosecutor to be allowed to talk about the case.

Senior Legal Analyst Jeffery Tobin joins me once again.

So, there's a gag order, the lifetime gag order on these jurors, is this -- have you ever heard of somebody suing in order to --

TOOBIN: Yes. Never heard of anything like -- OK, a lawsuit like this. However, what makes this a non-frivolous case is that remember what happened -- the prosecutor moved to disclose all of the testimony before the grand jury which is very rare but was done under Missouri law.

So, the grand juror is saying, wait a second, well, if you going to release all the testimony, release the rest of what went on in the grand jury. The legal instruction is given to the grand jury and show how the prosecutor really sabotage the case.

COOPER: And that's the allegation at the grand juror -- TOOBIN: Right. The grand juror is unhappy about the result, unhappy

about the process and he is saying, we'll send you the release, all of the stuff already. The usual rules of a grand jury secrecy don't apply --

COOPER: Is that our (ph) argument?

TOOBIN: You know, I think judges are very reluctant to release anything in the grand jury. My guess is that they will figure out some way to keep the stuff secret. But it's not out of a question and I think given the unusual circumstances here and the fact that the usual privacy interest that apply keeping your names of witnesses secret --

COOPER: Right. It wouldn't change anything about the verdict, the grand jury was simply just allow this juror to speak --

TOOBIN: Right. And it might disclose some of what else it went on in the grand jury. I think it's not out of the question that it will succeed but I think it's probably unlikely. It's just an indication and also the passions that's continue to surround this case.

COOPER: All right, Jeffrey Tobin, fascinating stuff.

Now, Jean Casarez has our 360 Bulletin. Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. According to a Syrian human rights group, Kurdish fighters now control 80 percent of the city of Kobani making big games in the battle against ISIS.

And U.S. Central Command says in the past 48 hours, there have been eight air strikes in the Kobani led by U.S.-led coalition.

And New York Mayor Bill de Blasio says the police officers who turned their back on him as the funerals for two slain officers were disrespectful to the grieving families in the city.

The protest in uniform comes after a police union leader claimed de Blasio had blood on his hands after the two police officers were shot and killed in their patrol car in an ambush last month.

And it was a brutal day on Wall Street. The Dow plunges 331 points after oil falls below $50 a barrel.

Anderson, we all want lower gas prices but we surely (ph) want that.

COOPER: Yeah. Jean Casarez. Jean, thanks very much. Great to have you on the program.

Just ahead, longtime ESPN anchor Stuart Scott is being remembered for how he lived his life fully even after he battle cancer.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me with more on the rare type of cancer that took Scott's life yesterday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Stuart Scott wanted to be remembered for how he lived his life, not how he died.

At the most recent ESPY Awards, longtime ESPN anchor was given the 2014 Jimmy V. Perseverance Award, he barely made it in the ceremony.

Just days earlier, he'd been hospital struggling with complications from recurring cancer but he rallied on what he said in his acceptance speech brought tears to many.


STUART SCOTT: When you die, it does not mean that you lose to cancer. You beat cancer by how you live, why you live and in the manner in which you live.

Thank you ESPN. Thank you ESPYs, thank all of you. Have a great rest of your night and have a great rest of your life.


COOPER: That was the youngest daughter giving him a hug.

Stuart Scott lost his battle of cancer yesterday. He was just 49 years old.

He has been remembered for his resilience, determinations, his incredible work ethic as he faced down the cancer, when the doctor discovered in his appendix in 2007.

But most of you didn't realize he was as sick as he was. And I want to bring in Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta now.

Sanjay, tell me about this kind of cancer, appendiceal cancer -- I'd never heard of it before.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's a pretty rare cancer. It's about 600 to a thousand people a year only in the United States are diagnosed of the cancer like this.

It's a cancer that actually originates in the appendix. It's a part of the large intestine and it's not a cancer again that's very common. It's also -- it's one of those things that people may have abdominal pain. They may have sort of more vague symptoms. It may get missed. And as a result of it getting missed, it can grow in size and even spread, and that's one of the real problems with this sort of cancer.

COOPER: As you know, I just had my appendix out a couple of weeks ago. So is it only people who still have their appendix can get this cancer?

GUPTA: Yeah. So in this particular type of area, the -- and the appendix itself is where this cancer originates, but Anderson, you know, in your case you had your appendix taken out because you -- it became inflamed. I imagine you had pain --

COOPER: Right.

GUPTA: And therefore, they took it out. It's not a part of the test that's really necessary anymore, so it can come out easily. The same sort of thing happened with Stuart Scott. He had symptoms that were vague. They went and did an operation. They took out his appendix, and they found when they examined that appendix that in fact that had cancer inside of it. So that's often how the diagnosis is made. But again, unlike many other types of cancer, it can be so vague in terms of the initial symptoms, you know, some abdominal discomfort, some pain here and there. People may not pay attention to it. And that's part of the problem with this. It will grow as a result.

COOPER: How treatable is it if it's caught?

GUPTA: Well, if it's caught and caught early, and that typically means that it hasn't spread, and it's smaller than two centimeters in size, the tumor that is. It can be very easily treatable. And in fact, just taking out the appendix at that point is pretty much the treatment. The problem is that if it's grown larger than two centimeters and it started to spread, and typically that's going to spread. It's going to spread to lymph nodes in the area, for example, then it becomes more problematic. That's when you start to need chemotherapy and other types of treatment. You also oftentimes have to have those lymph nodes taken out. So these are big operations and, you know, very tough therapies, these chemotherapies.

COOPER: Bottom line, nodes is when or you'll have this no matter what. People with recurring stomach pains or pains around their appendix should be checked out.

GUPTA: There's no question, I mean. And thankfully, this is a very rare cancer, you know, it's again, not fewer than 1,000 people a year, but obviously, pain in that particular area, this is the right lower quadrant pain. We always call it the right lower quadrant of the abdomen. If you are having pain in that area and you still have your appendix --

COOPER: Right.

GUPTA: Then it's something that is obviously going to be --

COOPER: Right.

GUPTA: ... In the list of concern.

COOPER: Because I actually was overseas and I had pain for like three or four days, and I thought it was, you know, that I had eaten something. And it wasn't until I e-mailed my doctor. I was getting on the flight. He diagnosed it by my e-mail, thankfully I have a very smart doctor, and he, you know, I got to the hospital as soon as I landed, but definitely have that stuff checked out.

GUPTA: So you flew with that?

COOPER: I did. Yeah, and that was at the end of like a four -- it was like my fourth day and I finalized like, you know what, I should check in with my doctor on this one because anyway, I'm glad I did.

GUPTA: Feel free to call me as well (inaudible).

COOPER: All right. It was thanksgiving. I didn't want to bother you. Sanjay, thanks.

GUPTA: Yeah. Thank you.

COOPER: I have called Sanjay by the past. The RidicuList is next. I'm going to make you smile in the end of this day. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Oh yes, you voted online for your favorite RidicuList of 2014. Tonight, we have your choice for number one. This is from early last year when the 360 staff spotted something on eBay that hit very close to home. Take a look.

Coming up for the RidicuList, and so now I want to show you something that caught the attention of the 360 staff. This is on eBay, advertised as the "Mini Cooper." It's pretty darn accurate, the hoodie, the jeans, the head is heavily-oaked with a trigger control to open and close the mouth. I know what you're thinking, ventriloquist dummies in general are kind of terrifying, but when you really think about it, why do they have such a bad reputation? They're not creepy at all.


ROD SERLING: What do you say, we get down to business?


COOPER: Thank you, Rod Serling. Now I'm paranoid that Mini Cooper will come to life, hunt me down, and haunt my dreams. But you know what, that was The Twilight Zone from the early 1960s. Times have certainly changed. Honestly, I'm psyched that there is a dummy of me. It makes me want to learn more about the art of ventriloquism. Ventriloquism. That's why I don't want to learn more about ventriloquism. Ventriloquism. Ventriloquism. The only lesson I've ever had was from Best in Show of course.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that you were -- you went to the psychic. I did, I'm sort of happy. Happy. Fat happy, happy. Fat, how you say F?


COOPER: Yeah. Before I try to learn how to thrill my voice, I think I have to master the art of regular talking. How about that? In all transparency, we try to do this -- oh, thank you. Are we really going to play this? This is actually the second time we have tried to do this segment. We tried to do it earlier this week. Let's take a look.


COOPER: Why do ventriloquist dummies, times have changed, ventriloquism had -- ventriloquism, times have changed, ventriloquism, kind of makes me want to learn more about ventriloquist -- no, I'm not going to keep coming. It kind of makes me want to learn more about the art of ventriloquism.


COOPER: Listen, it's not the easiest word to say. Have you seen Ricky Gervais' "Derek"?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm doing my popular act, my ven -- ventriloquism -- what is that? What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ventriquisilm (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ventriquisilm (ph)?





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ventriquicosilm (ph).


COOPER: Ventriloquism. So getting back to the Mini Cooper, our crafty investigator journalist got on the case and found out that an artist named Chris in New York, Pennsylvania spent about three months sculpting and creating and funding the perfect little new balance sneakers. This is actually basically what I wear every single day. The staff was also quite intrigued by the "buy it now" price of this eBay listing, $360,000. Chris told us he doesn't actually want to sell it. The price is homage to the name of this program, a reference which initially sailed right over a Harrods frankly.

The artist also said some very nice things about Mini Cooper being a tribute to me, which I very much appreciate. So to put it plainly, I am very touched and genuinely honored to be a dummy on The RidicuList.

You can see all of your picks to the top five RidicuList of 2014 on our newly rated design blog at, that's our blog. That does it for us. CNN TONIGHT starts now. Bye.