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Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah Dies; State Department Reduces Yemen Embassy Staff; Deadline to Save ISIS Hostages Passes; Obama Won't Meet Netanyahu

Aired January 23, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And the situation in the Middle East seems to be getting only worse. Yemen, rebels now in control of that key ally's capital after the president and cabinet resigned. Now, the U.S. is left on the outside looking in with nothing or next to nothing to keep American interests there safe.

We have the developments being covered from all angles this morning. Let's start with CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto.

Jim, what do we know?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good morning, Chris.

Really remarkable events in the span of 24 hours, in the Middle East, in the Gulf. You have two key American allies here, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, losing leaders in that time span.

Let's start with Saudi Arabia. This was expected. King Abdullah was ill for some time. They had a succession plan in place, Crown Prince Salman taking over as king and Deputy Crown Prince Muqrin now becoming the crown prince, the heir apparent. They'd planned for this.

But listen, this is a significant relationship. King Abdullah, he's been king for ten years, but ten years prior to that when he was crown prince, he was effectively running the country, because his predecessor, King Fahd, was ill for so long. So you're looking at a 20-year relationship here for the U.S. through very difficult times, 9/11 into the Iraq invasion.

I was able to interview King Abdullah, Crown Prince Abdullah at the time, just before the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And he spoke very honestly to the U.S., saying that the U.S., in his words, should be careful there. The kind of honest conversations that you can have with a close ally.

So that leader is gone. But frankly, no major ideological change or policy change expected in that succession.

Very different story across the border just next door in Yemen, because the president there who stepped down yesterday, President Hadi, this is a government that's been essential in the U.S. campaign against al Qaeda in the Arabian Pennsylvania there. He's a person who's spoken publicly about the effectiveness about the U.S. drone campaign. That's a very difficult thing for a Middle Eastern leader to say in public. He's gone now. Real questions as to what leadership follows.

And of course, Chris, we saw the ability that AQAP has to exert its power overseas with the attacks in Paris just last week. Real open questions about there as to the effect on U.S. policy.

CUOMO: Absolutely, Jim. I mean, if Yemen is a nation without government just as of this morning, the U.S. has gone from having a base for operations and an ally, to having a country with a group in control that doesn't like the United States. Overnight the U.S. pulled some of its staff from the U.S. embassy. The question now is are those left behind in danger?

Barbara Starr has that from the Pentagon. Barbara, what do we know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning.

Some U.S. personnel now out of Yemen. They've left by commercial aircraft, by all accounts. Not saying the Pentagon, the State Department, not saying how many are left at the embassy.

Here's the key question: that U.S. embassy is protected by Yemeni security forces in the outer perimeter, out on the streets surrounding the embassy. Will those Yemeni security forces be loyal? Will they continue to protect the embassy? Something that's being watched very carefully amid the chaos that is now Yemen and the capital of Sana'a.

The government having resigned yesterday, now the question for the U.S.: who is really in charge? What influence are the Houthis exerting? As Jim just pointed out, the fundamental question is, can this still be a government, can this still be a country that the U.S. can partner with to challenge al Qaeda in that country?

That is the al Qaeda element that poses such a significant threat. An element of al Qaeda that has tried to attack the United States before and has vowed to continue to do so.

So it couldn't be more serious in terms of the U.S. looking to figure out if it can still work with the government there and try to challenge those al Qaeda elements -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Barbara, thank you for that.

A deadline to save two Japanese hostages from the grip of ISIS has passed now. Those men's lives are tied to a $200 million ransom threat. ISIS is expected to release a statement soon.

Let's get the very latest from Will Ripley. He's live in Tokyo. And I can't imagine that nation is -- is having the most difficult time struggling with the fate of these two men.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Michaela. And this truly is such a heart-breaking situation that gets more heart-breaking with each hour that passes for the families of these two men. Because the Japanese government has been unable to open a line of communication with ISIS. But the terror group is talking to a television station, a Japanese network, saying that they expect a statement to come soon. They're not commenting about any negotiations with the Japanese government, which means all signs are pointing to the terror group trying to get attention and headlines. And perhaps setting the stage for a horrific conclusion to this ordeal that they have put this country through, and specifically, put two families through.

The mother of Kenji Goto, one of the hostages, made a tearful plea to ISIS today. A very brave woman stood before a row of dozens of cameras, and she said that her son is not an enemy of ISIS. A plea that we've heard other mothers make to the terror group, to no avail. The terror group still assassinates people, even though they know that there are so many families that are hurting as a result.

But perhaps the most tragic thing of all, is that Kenji Goto's wife is sitting home right now, caring for their newborn baby, still unsure about what is going to happen to her husband and the father of her children -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, that's horrible, Will. Thanks so much for the update. We'll check back in.

Let's bring in now former United States ambassador to Saudi Arabia. This is Ambassador James Smith.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much for joining us on NEW DAY.

JAMES SMITH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: Hi, Alisyn. Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Tell us about King Abdullah and what his attitude was and relationship was with the United States?

SMITH: Well, he had a very strong relationship with the United States. A very strong personal relationship with presidents going back 20 years. Very, very strong and personal relationship with President Obama. He would often talk about the importance of the U.S./Saudi relationship, so we have lost a friend.

CAMEROTA: You know we've heard him described this morning as a reformer.

SMITH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Though it's hard to see Saudi Arabia as particularly reformed. I mean particularly when we've heard that there have been ten beheadings there this month. We're watching the flogging, the sentence of a blogger who has been sentenced to 1,000 lashes. They don't feel very reformed.

SMITH: Well, Alisyn, you have to understand that Saudi Arabia is probably the most conservative country on the face of the earth. But when we talk about modernization, we're talking about incremental improvements. And certainly Abdullah was a modernizer, both in terms of spending hundreds of billions of dollars improving the infrastructure of Saudi Arabia, advancing education.

The King Abdullah scholarship, for example, Alisyn, I can think of nothing that rivals that, save the G.I. Bill here in the United States after World War II. And there are over 100,000 Saudi students studying here in the United States that will go back -- it will transform a generation. And this is a long-term modernization plan.

CAMEROTA: Here's what President Obama said about King Abdullah. He released a statement after his death. He said, "As a leader he was always candid and had the courage of his convictions. One of those convictions was his steadfast and passionate belief in the importance of the U.S./Saudi relationship as a force for stability and security in the Middle East and beyond."

And again, today it is sort of hard to feel as though that region is stable. Look at what's happening in Yemen this morning.

SMITH: Well, that's true, Alisyn. But Saudi Arabia for the last three years has been the eye of a storm. And all around Saudi Arabia has been in crisis and at times chaos.

I quite agree with the president's analysis. But I would also tell you that crown prince, now King Salman shares that same view about the U.S./Saudi relationship. So my guess is we're going to have -- we have a transition that will be almost seamless, in terms of the U.S./Saudi relationship.

CAMEROTA: As you're speaking, Mr. Ambassador, we're watching the funeral begin for King Abdullah. You can see mourners getting into cars there for a procession, we imagine. Tell us about Crown Prince Salman. What should we know about him?

SMITH: Well, he was the governor of Riyadh for the better part of 50 years. So he saw Riyadh grow from a city of maybe 100,000 people to a city of seven million people. Three years ago he became the minister of defense with the passing of Prince Sultan. So his portfolio expanded beyond just Riyadh. He became the crown prince. And for most of the last year, he -- he's been picking up the duties of the royal court.

He is, in the same way King Abdullah was conservative, he is conservative. And he will be accepted by the conservative community. Having said that, he is involved in many activities which suggest that the vector for modernization will continue in the kingdom.

CAMEROTA: And is he also an adherent to Wahhabism, which as we see it is the most extreme sort of version of Islam?

SMITH: Well, the major sect of Islam in Saudi Arabia is Salafism. Wahhabism is a political relationship between -- that goes back several hundred years. But the religious entity is Salafism, and he is certainly an adherent of that.

CAMEROTA: So what do you think is the future for Saudi Arabia? Will we continue to see the things that we consider horrific human rights offenses, like the flogging and the beheadings? Or is -- are they taking steps towards what we would see as more modern civil rights views?

SMITH: Well, Alisyn, the -- all of this is incremental. The beheadings are troubling. But I will tell you it's very difficult for us as a country to criticize their beheadings in terms of human rights violations, when we continue to put people to death in the electric chair.

The challenge for them as they evolve and modernize is to be comfortable in a more open society and a more open debate. That's what I think will be the byproduct of the King Abdullah scholarship program and the hundreds of thousands of this generation that are studying abroad.

CAMEROTA: I mean, let's be clear: we would never put a blogger in the electric chair. I mean, there are -- there are vast differences between their justice system and our justice system.

But I want to finish, Mr. Ambassador, on this point. What do you think is the future of Yemen, Saudi Arabia's neighbor?

SMITH: Yemen's a challenge. It's been a challenge for 50 years. And the Saudis' position on that is to build a strong wall between -- down on the southern border between Saudi Arabia and Yemen, and -- and keep a distance.

We -- we had hoped that the Hadi government would be -- would demonstrate a transition in power from Ali Abdullah Saleh. That has broken down, mainly because of tribal challenges and difficulties within the country.

The Saudis, you know, fought a skirmish with the Houthis back in 2009.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SMITH: A border skirmish. So there's very much instability in Yemen. And the Saudis will tell you they're actually more concerned with that southern border and Yemen than they are the northern border and the impact of DAISH or ISIS coming south.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for all of your expertise.

And then again, we were just watching the live pictures again of King Abdullah's funeral there. You can see mourners gathering in Riyadh and the funeral is under way.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks for being on NEW DAY.

SMITH: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. Thanks so much.

The Republican-led House has passed a bill prohibiting the use of taxpayer money for abortions. GOP leaders were forced to back away from an earlier bill outlawing most abortions after 20 weeks. Too many female Republicans objected. The vote was held as -- held, rather, as abortion protesters marched on Washington, marking 42 years since the Supreme Court legalized abortion.

CUOMO: We have an update for you on AirAsia Flight 8501. Six more bodies have been recovered from the records [SIC]. Still, only 59 of the 162 souls on board have been located. A majority of the victims are believed to be trapped inside the plane's main body, and that is stuck on the muddy floor of the Java Sea.

CAMEROTA: Incredible video to show you. This is off the coast of Scotland. Rescuers plucking people off a ship just moments before it sinks. Five crew members were picked up by the Maritime and Coast Guard Agency...

CUOMO: Yikes.

CAMEROTA: Yikes is right -- after their fishing boat began taking on water about 48 miles offshore. Two of these victims were airlifted to another boat. Three were taken to the hospital and treated for hypothermia.

PEREIRA: I admire the search-and-rescue guys who have to go and do these maritime rescues. That is challenging, terrifying work.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

PEREIRA: It's amazing that -- every situation is a little different. It's really incredible what they do.

CAMEROTA: Because often they're doing it in terrible weather. That's why the ships sank. So then they have to go out into the terrible weather. It's really nerve-wracking.

CUOMO: Special guys, very dangerous and also a window into how dangerous that commercial fishing is.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

PEREIRA: Yes, absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Well, the death of King Abdullah is causing -- well, is it causing possible political upheaval in neighboring Yemen? What will that mean for the U.S.?

And the war on terror. Two Middle East experts will weigh in on all of that, next.

CUOMO: So what do you get when the leader of the free world takes on someone who tries to shove as many gumballs in her mouth as possible? You know what you get? Something fun to watch and interesting in its own way. John King is going to tell you what happened on "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: Welcome back. Yemen has no government. Rebels are now in control. A senior State Department official tells CNN more staff from the U.S. embassy in Yemen were pulled out overnight. But not all of them. Why not? Let's get some perspective on this. We have Steven Seche. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Yemen and the former U.S. charge d'affaires for Syria. He's currently a senior analyst at Dentons.

Thank you very much, Ambassador, for joining us.

There is concern, obviously, that you don't want U.S. people in harm's way. What do you think their status is in Yemen as of this morning?

STEVEN SECHE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO YEMEN: Good morning, Chris.

I think that what we've done overnight in removing some of our staff from the embassy in Sana'a, is quite prudent, given the situation. There's a lot of instability, a lot of uncertainty.

We are working with a very skeletal staff in any event, and the people who are there now really need to be there. So I think that we are able to operate.

And we don't want to pull the plug. We have a very close friend in President Hadi. And it's a statement of a complete loss of confidence to say we're going to close our embassy down and pull our people out entirely. And we have reasons to be there. There's a lot of security concerns. There's a lot of issues we have to deal with on a sustained basis. And you can only do that if you have people in-country.

CUOMO: But Hadi is gone. He resigned. And the question becomes can you keep them safe? You know, you balance the need to have them there with the need to keep them there safely. How do you feel about it?

SECHE: Well, absolutely. And you can't hunker down behind your walls of your embassy and do any business, either. So you need to, as you say, balance the risk of being able to get out, conduct your business, stay in touch with the people you have to be in touch with, and also make sure your people come home at the end of the day and are safe.

Now Hadi is gone, but it's not clear to me yet he is not going to come back. This may be a step in a process. And maybe this is a way for him to put a little bit of pressure back on the Houthis, who have been pressuring him relentlessly since September to make concessions.

And he didn't have too many levers left to pull. And one of them was to say to the Houthis, who clearly don't want to run Yemen, "OK, if you want it so badly, I'll walk away. You can take charge, and you can run this country."

CUOMO: So now what happens?

SECHE: Well, it's not clear. Now, we'll see if this pressure works. The Houthis may decide, "OK, we don't want to run Yemen." Because once you take ownership of that country and all of its problems, people expect you to solve them. And that may be something the Houthis decide is beyond their means.

So they may give Hadi a little space, invite him to come back in, make a concession of their own and see if they can get him to take over the reins of the government again.

Now he's still going to be a very weak leader, and that's probably the issue. how do we get him in a position where he can really exercise his writ as president and begin to extend the authority of the central government back out into areas of Yemen where al Qaeda operates so freely?

CUOMO: So right now we don't have that operations base. We don't have that friend in power in Yemen. Saudi Arabia, we just had the king leave. We keep -- pass away, actually. We often refer to them in the media, Saudi Arabia, as the most powerful ally in the region. Will they remain that under the new king?

SECHE: I think, as Ambassador Smith said, we have a very good and likelihood of a continuity in Saudi Arabia that will maintain the relationship.

We also, in terms of Yemen, have a very close friend, Prince Muhammad Nayef, the minister of the interior, who has been for years in charge of the Yemen file. And we work very well with him, with his ministry and with his people. So I think we can, at least in terms of the personnel, expect a relationship regarding Saudi Arabia and our alliance with the Saudis and, in terms of Yemen, to continue.

Now, the question is what do we do, in spite of the fact that we have people who are committed to resolving the issues? That remains, to me, to be an open question.

CUOMO: And, of course, you do have the Saudis, who are dedicated to stopping ISIS for their own reasons, whether or not they are strong in coalition in with the United States, because ISIS wants them gone.

Let me ask you something, because of your work in Syria. Some big numbers came out of the United States about how many ISIS fighters have been taken out: like half their leadership, 6,000 fighters. You know the situation in Syria. You know the U.S. doesn't have a ground game there, doesn't have great intel networks within Syria. How could we know how many people have been killed with any kind of accuracy?

SECHE: I'm not sure how we make a body count in that case. It's -- it's really speculative, as far as I can see. And there are -- there's an enormous body of men under arms representing ISIS in Syria now, and it's really a chilling prospect when you think of the numbers they have. And the fact that we ourselves have so little in terms of people on the ground that we can count on to be a counterforce, either to ISIL or to President Assad and the Syrian regime.

CUOMO What are you hearing out of Syria from your contacts there? Do they believe that ISIS is suffering from the military campaign? Are the rebels gaining ground? What is Assad's posture? What are you hearing? SECHE: I think there's no doubt that the constant bombardment from

the air has had an effect on ISIS. I also think that the ground forces that the Kurds have put in place, the Peshmerga, and a somewhat reconstituted Iraqi army on the other side of the border has had a positive effect in keeping ISIS a bit on its heels.

And I also think that, with the rapidly dropping price of oil, some of the income that they were enjoying before is drying up.

So this may be a moment when we can have an advantage. I'm not sure we can sustain the advantage, but we really need to.

CUOMO: Ambassador Seche, thank you very much for your perspective. Appreciate it on NEW DAY.

SECHE: My pleasure, Chris.

CUOMO: Michaela, over to you.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. The White House certainly not pleased with a plan to address Congress by Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu, who accepted an invitation by John Boehner just as President Obama was taking a victory lap following the State of the Union. Well, now the president is responding.

CAMEROTA: And all eyes will be on Iowa this weekend, where many Republican 2016 hopefuls will gather to fire up fellow conservatives. But there will be a couple of notable absences. John King will explain, coming up on "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Their relationship is known to be frosty. Now, after Benjamin Netanyahu accepted John Boehner's invitation to address a joint session of Congress, President Obama is giving Israel's prime minister the cold shoulder.

CNN's Elise Labott is live in Jerusalem with all the details.

Good morning, Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, yesterday the White House put out a statement, saying President Obama would not meet with Prime Minister Netanyahu when he comes to give that address to Congress in March, early March.

Why? Because the White House says it's a longstanding policy of not meeting with leaders so close to their own election. Prime Minister Netanyahu facing re-election in a March 17 election.

But it's really interesting. It's also kind of a dig to Prime Minister Netanyahu. He met, if you remember, with Mitt Romney when he was running for election against President Obama.

So what's really gone on with this invitation from John Boehner is it's inserting Israel into the fight between President Obama and Congress over U.S. policy towards Iran. Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech expected to be very critical about U.S. policy towards Iran.

But it's also inserting the United States into the election with Israel. A lot of criticism here from Netanyahu's opponents, saying he's trying to use this speech for his own political gain.

CAMEROTA: Elise, we want to pivot for a second, because we want to show some live pictures now of King Abdullah's funeral. They are right there. The pall-bearers are hoisting the casket of King Abdullah, and we're watching them, the procession and them bringing his body to the next step of this funeral.

What's the reaction in Israel to the king's death and the future of Saudi Arabia?

LABOTT: Well, the Israeli public is a little bit cynical. A lot of jabs on social media, criticizing the double standard that the United States has, for instance, about Saudi Arabia's human rights record.

But the government, some of the reaction has really been extraordinary. Former Israeli president, Shimon Peres, who's in Davos right now, called King Abdullah's death a real loss to -- not only to the Middle East but to peace in the region.

But the current president, Reuven Rivlin, said the following really extraordinary: "King Abdullah was an example of rooted leadership, balanced and responsible. He acted as a mediator who respects the sensitivity and sanctity of Jerusalem. He sought to promote a vision of a prosperous region and contributed greatly to the balance and stability of the Middle East."

And you know, while the U.S. and Israel don't really -- don't have official relations, obviously, Saudi Arabia was actually not so bad towards Israel during the summer war with Gaza. They didn't praise Israel's reaction -- actions towards Hamas in Gaza, obviously. But at the same time, they did not condemn it. Really no criticism by the Saudi government. And that was because they had their own fights with Hamas, Turkey and Qatar, who were acting together -- Michaela.

CAMEROTA: Interesting perspective, Elise. We've heard those same sentiments that you just read reflected by President Barack Obama, saying that he was a great instrument of stability there.

LABOTT: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Elise Labott, thanks so much.

PEREIRA: Production of an promising experimental Ebola drug has stalled. ZMapp was tried for the first time on two American aid workers in Liberia who were severely ill with the virus. Both recovered. Federal officials vowed to make more quickly. However, six months later, very little has been produced and no contracts to manufacture the ZMapp have been granted. Government officials say clinical trials to test the drug will begin in Liberia within three weeks.