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The Vaccine Debate Becomes 2016 Issue; Worst Play In Super Bowl History?; Americans Spend Less

Aired February 3, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: ll right, Chad, we'll check back with you a little later.

The measles outbreak that originated in Disneyland in California is spreading. The Centers for Disease Control is now reporting 102 people in 14 states are infected. The Nevada Health Department also claiming one confirmed case in their state. The virus was eradicated in the U.S. some 15 years ago, but continues to be brought back to the U.S. by international travelers.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a manhole explosion caught on video, the sudden blast rattled nerves in New York's Brooklyn community. This was actually -- actually the second of two explosions that rocked the area.

Fire officials believe this happened in an underground electrical vault that could have been weather-related. A man was struck by the first manhole cover when it landed and he was taken to the hospital and treated for serious injuries of the.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Lucky it wasn't worse.

All right, we have a CNN exclusive for you, an investigation exposing a major blind spot in airport security. It reveals that only two of the top 20 airports in the U.S. performed daily security screenings on their own workers.

That means baggage handlers, caterers, mechanics, they don't get checked at major airports including L.A.X. and JFK. A House Homeland Security Subcommittee will take up the issue today. We'll stay on it for you.

PEREIRA: Beauty pageants, let's discuss those. They're about grace and poise, not necessarily at the Miss Amazon competition in Brazil. When Carol Toledo won the title, the runner up ripped the tiara off her head and threw it to the floor, threw it to the floor, yelling at the winner, storming off the stage. Ayala later explained her actions claiming that Toledo was a fraud and bought her win and did not deserve it.

CAMEROTA: That is not the collegial spirit that I believe the contest are after.

PEREIRA: I love the way she walks away with her head held high. CUOMO: Good carriage and gait on the exit.

PEREIRA: Not a great upper cut but --

CUOMO: The woman who was crowning her kept her hand on the hair to keep the hair in place -- they spend a lot of time on their hair and then you hit it.

All right, John King "Inside Politics," I was trying to go a little Saturday night fever there, remember Tony Manero, when he gets hit by the dad and says I spend a lot of time on my hair and then you hit it. I don't think she said that, though.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": No, but how do I top that? You guys can't do that and then come to me. Just keep running the video over and over again, there's nothing I can do to top that.

We're going to go "Inside Politics" this morning. Before I do, I hope you guys get the Sanjay Gupta conversation online as soon as possible. That's the substance of the vaccine debate and people should see it and listen to the good doctor because you guys had a great conversation and he got it just right.

With me this morning for the politics on the vaccination debate, Julie Pace of the "Associated Press" and Ron Fournier of the "National Journal." This conversation was going to happen anyway because of what's happened out of Disneyland, the measles outbreak in the country.

And I'll say this at the beginning, if you're running for president you should be prepared to be asked just about anything. Your favorite color, vaccination policy, anything, you want a nuclear football? Any question is fair game.

This is Chris Christie in London yesterday, asked if vaccines are a good thing or bad thing, he splits the difference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: All I can say is we vaccinate ours and so, you know, that's the best expression of my opinion. It's much more important I think what you think as a parent than what you think as a public official, and that's what we do.

But I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. So that's the balance that the government has to decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It's that part where he says parents need to have some measure of choice. That's a balance. The gov't has to decide. Christie's office in New Jersey put out this statement, "To be clear the governor believes vaccines are an important public health protection and with the disease like measles, there's no question kids should be vaccinated. At the same time, different states require different degrees of vaccination, which is why he was calling for a balance in which ones governments should mandate." That's Chris Christie.

Let's bring in Rand Paul in a combative interview with CNBC on a number of subjects, Rand Paul, remember, he is an ophthalmologist. He is an eye doctor. Listen to him here saying he has some questions about vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they're a good thing, but I think the parents should have some input.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Again, the staff comes in to do some clean-up. Sergio Gore, Rand Paul spokesman saying, "Dr. Paul believes that vaccines have saved lives and should be administered to children. His children were vaccinated and he believes many vaccines should be voluntary. And like most medical decisions between the doctor and the patient, not the government."

Is this a fair conversation for presidential candidates and should they be prepared to give clearer answers, I get the government distrust especially on the Republican side, the conservative side. But when it comes to your children and measles, it's a no-brainer.

JULIE PACE, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": I think it's a fair conversation, one because it is something that's topical right now. Two, you do have several states that are debating this on a state level about what kind of regulation should be in place for sending your children to school.

So there is a political government aspect to this. It does show you, though, how what you say as a potential presidential candidate can have so much more resonance than what you say even as a governor.

What Chris Christie said is largely the same as what he has been saying in the state of New Jersey where this is a big topic. But when you say this and you're potentially running for president, you have to be a bit more careful with your language and he should have been better prepared.

When you saw them walk this back, you can tell they got nervous about the message that this may have been sending. Just on Rand Paul we've been talking about this a little bit.

The difference between Rand Paul and Chris Christie, Rand Paul is a doctor and if you're going to be saying things like I know of children who have been affected by this, you should have some evidence to back that up and as far as we know, there is no evidence.

RON FOURNIER, "THE NATIONAL JOURNAL": That's the thing, obviously Chris Christie. Whenever you have to have a statement that says, to be clear, you know you've messed up and are maybe not ready to be a presidential candidate, yet.

With Rand Paul, he literally drew a connection between autism and vaccines. There is no connection between the two. I have an autistic boy. I don't know how he got autism. I know he didn't get it from vaccines.

These gentlemen's job in wanting to be a leader, to educate the public, and they should be making clear to people get your kids vaccinated and not be pandering.

KING: If you want to make a distinction, let's say for example, it came up in the last presidential cycle, measles, mumps, kids should be vaccinated. HPV, should the state mandate that, that came up, you have to be specific. You have to be specific or you end up here.

FOURNIER: Don't pretend there is a link, there's not a link.

KING: Our conservative friend, Eric Ericsson, writes this in "Red State" this morning. He is blaming this on us. He says, "This is only a political issue because the press, having failed to paint the GOP as anti-women, wishes to now paint the GOP as anti-science.

Before this month out, I suspect that some reporter will ask Republican candidates if they in the global flood and a man named Noah. If they have clear answers, it's over.

If you're going to run for president, you have to answer anything, who is your favorite team. What's your favorite color and then serious public health issues like vaccine.

PACE: This isn't one of these issues where you have a clear line between Democrats and Republicans necessarily on this. There are Republicans who are running for president, who have come down strongly on the side of having your children vaccinated.

FOURNIER: This is not an issue to debate. There's nothing to debate. We know there's not a link between vaccines and autism. If you make that link, you're going to get hammered. What Rand Paul did in particular is not worthy of the Senate, let alone a doctor.

KING: To be fair, Democrats saw an opening they were criticizing Rand Paul and Chris Christie all day yesterday. President Obama was very clear in the weekend interview he believes kids should be vaccinated.

In 2008 as a candidate, President Obama said he understood there were people out there suspicious about the autism thing and he needed to heed those suspicions.

Hillary Clinton issued this tweet yesterday saying, "The science is clear, the earth is round, the sky is blue and vaccines work." She also added grandmother knows best, a nice touch there.

She also in 2008 to be fair, we're beating up the Republicans right now, she also in 2008 said there are some out there who fear -- FOURNIER: I'm sorry, John, that doesn't excuse what the Republicans

are saying now, yes, Obama and now, and they should know better than to be wrong now. They have to stick with the facts.

PACE: Well, I think that's a good point. When you go back to what Obama aid in particular, I mean, to talk about again why this is not just a clear line between Republicans and Democrats on this issue.

A lot of the people have been pushing the sort of anti-vaccine movement are celebrities, liberal, Hollywood types, that was a big donor base for Obama.

I can't say for certain he was pandering to them at that point. But that is kind of the community that's been involved in this as well.

FOURNIER: I will say he was pandering, but anybody who is pandering now, should get slapped.

KING: It should be a lesson early in the campaign whether its vaccines or other issues for all of the first-time presidential candidates out there, we're going to try to be fair. We're not perfect.

If you see something you don't like, send it my way, I'll take it but if you're going to run for president, specificity, give a long answer if you have to. Don't cut things short. Spell it out clearly. And conversations like this don't happen. Julia and Ron, thanks for coming in.

As we get back to you in New York, Alisyn, there are some big votes coming up on the Hill this week. We'll keep an eye on Homeland Security funding in the Senate has a big vote today. The House is going to try to repeal Obamacare.

Let's listen to a little sound from the president. He says I have a veto pen. He likes having athletes down at the White House, look at his latest weapon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is better than the vet pen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Always good to have a hockey stick and I'm going to make your colleagues mad when I say this, but first he's going to have the Patriots down and maybe next year with the Stanley Cup, the Bruins.

CAMEROTA: Ouch. Those are fighting words here, John. Chris Cuomo is not going to like that. All right, thanks so much, great to see you.

Many argue the Seattle Seahawks coach cost his team the Super Bowl by calling for a pass from the 1 yard line. Next, we'll speak with the former football player who can empathize he fumbled away chance for his team to make the Super Bowl. Former Browns running back, Earnest Byner, joins us, live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: That's the play, right? Instead of handing off the ball to Marshawn Lynch, the Seahawks quarterback, Russell Wilson, passes and tosses a pick. Seconds left in the game. Bewildered fans can't stop asking why? Why didn't Seattle run the ball? Easy to say now, right?

That's the way the game and life often works. Something our next guest understands all too well. Cut to final minute, 1987, AFC championship game, Cleveland Browns/Denver broncos. Browns star running back, Earnest Byner, one of the best, running for a touchdown -- and then --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Draw to Byner, Earnest Byner fumbled the ball and Denver has recovered!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The Browns lose the game, the play in infamy as the fumble. Earnest Byner joins us now. He went on to become a two-time pro bowler, a Super Bowl champ. He's also the author of a book that is more relevant than ever called "Everybody Fumbles."

Mr. Byner, a pleasure to have you on the show. I loved watching you play the game. You played it the right way. How many times in 14 seasons did you fumble?

EARNEST BYNER, "THE FUMBLE" 1987 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP: Too many, I can tell you that. The reality is that you know we're going to make mistakes in the game. We play to be perfect. But the reality is we're going to make mistakes. But you know, you got to learn, you got to grow and you got to make headway.

CUOMO: Your fumbling stats are better than many. That's the point. Is that it doesn't matter about your stats. I looked at that and compared to Emmet Submith, you look pretty good compared to him and he's one of the best.

But it's not the numbers. It's about what people remember. You wound up leaving the team after the following season. Had you a great career then with the redskins. You actually came back to the Browns.

And now you're in their circle of legends for the Cleveland browns. How long did it take for the fans to get over it or did they?

BYNER: Never. I mean, the reality is, you never get over something like that. But you, you actually be able to take the energy from the experience and use it to actually grow, to teach.

But also to move forward, once all of this happened, to us, I mean the reality is you know, there's going to be some other experiences that we have to go through. And those experiences, the past experiences, the negative ones are actually the ones that help to us get ready for the next experience.

I was able to go through a spiritual conversion, once I got to Washington and was able to forgive myself. One of the travesties of the playoffs is it's almost like a death sentence.

And if you make a key mistake in those games, it has a tendency to stick with you even longer. People have the ability to remind you of, many the mistake and they will take the opportunity so --

CUOMO: This was a big deal for you, forget about the field. But when I hear you talking about it now and looking at what the book's about. This ran you down personally for a long time and as you say, caused a spiritual conversion. How plaguing was it before you learned how to deal with it?

BYNER: It was the reality is, it ran for, for a long time. It weakened me. It made me different in a lot of aspects of my life. It made me actually a little bit subconscious. And that's one of the things that you know I tried to pass on to people.

You know through the book, but also through the different speaking engagements, through different interactions. You know dealing with kids. You pass on, you pass on the fact that you know, you are going to struggle. But don't let anybody else decide how you look at the experience.

Because you know, we always, we always are trying to be perfect as players. And the worst thing about the playoffs is you're not able to actually get back on the field.

CUOMO: If you fumble one game --

BYNER: And get past that --

CUOMO: If you fumble during the regular season, you the next game, you're good to go. Is that fair?

BYNER: It's definitely fair. It's just part -- it's part of the reality. One of the things that we get caught you up in also is what we call the blame game. Somebody's got to be pointed out. Somebody has got to say that you messed it up. You messed it up for everybody.

You know, the Dean Huguely makes that point all the time. But in reality, there are all kinds of mistakes, many layers to my book and many layers in also winning and losing.

CUOMO: Whether it's fair or not, tough learn how to deal with it, that's what your book is about, to learn how to deal with the failures in life. It's called "The Fumble." The quarterback is only 26 years old, Russell Wilson.

He tweeted two things I want to put up there. He says every setback has a major comeback and he said at 26 years old I won't allow one play or one moment to define my career. I'll keep evolving. That's good news. But let me ask you something, can you avoid the question everybody is asking, do you think that play was a mistake? BYNER: I can't say a mistake. I wouldn't say that. I believe if it was me I would actually have given the ball to Marshawn, particularly because we had another time-out but, also, the fact that you want to not give New England the ball back with a lot of time as well.

You have the ability to run the time off the clock. Second guessing is one of the things that I try not to do because I was a coach at one point.

I wanted to try to get back into the lead, and the reality is, there are a lot of what ifs. New England won. Nobody has pointed to the fact that there were some interceptions, mistakes that they made.

CUOMO: That's the nature of the game, mistakes.

BYNER: Absolutely. That's part of the realities that we deal with. In this league, when you're trying to overcome stuff, winning covers a lot of sins.

CUOMO: That's true. That's true.

BYNER: When you lose everybody wants to point the finger. That's one thing that I really want to try to avoid. That's one thing that I put out there for people in the book.

CUOMO: Appreciate it. It's needed right now. I'll tell you, if the Seahawks had a beast like you in the backfield, maybe they would have been more ready to hand the ball off. Earnest Byner, thank you very much. Good luck.

BYNER: Marshawn Lynch, not handing it off to him, got to give it to him. If it's me, I give the ball to Marshawn Lynch. I do.

CUOMO: You're a running back. Take care, Earnest Byner. Good luck going ahead -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Chris, as if two mega-snowstorms are not enough? How about another one? Could more snow be heading in your direction this week? Chad Myers has all the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: We have new information for you on spending this morning. Chief business correspondent, Christine Romans, is here. Tell us what you know in CNN Money now.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Americans have extra money in their pockets from low gas prices but, Chris, they are not spending it. Consumer spending in December fell the most since 2009.

Obviously people spending less money because their gas bills are lower, but they are pocketing that money instead of spending it on other things. That means companies face weaker spending here as well as overseas. The dollar is very strong compared to other currencies right now. Great for Americans who travel abroad, you can book that trip to Paris, but it's hurting American companies that sell products in other countries. Watch this space especially for the big multi-national companies. They're a little more worried about profits these days, guys.

PEREIRA: We'll be watching. Thanks so much, Christine.

Very cold temperatures and record snow, this makes for a lethal combination. Is more snow on the way? We'll have more after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)