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NEW DAY

Parade for the Patriots; Jordan Takes Revenge on ISIS; Eastern Ukraine Devastated by Deadly Conflict; At Least 21 Killed in Plane Crash

Aired February 4, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you back with us.

Breaking overnight: stunning dash cam video capturing a plane as it crashes in Taiwan. The image is from TVBS Taiwan show the TransAsia flight clipping a bridge before it plunges into the river. Of the 58 people aboard, 21 are confirmed dead. The search for missing passengers continues at this hour. But the good news is there are survivors, rescuers have recovered the plane's black boxes.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Another crash at home, seven people dead after a Metro North commuter train slammed into a Jeep just north of New York City. Officials say the crossing gates came down on the car. The driver apparently got out to look just before her Jeep was hit. This is the deadliest accident in Metro North's history.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A new twist in the death of the Argentine special prosecutor, he apparently wanted the country's president arrested. Investigators say Alberto Nisman had drafted an arrest warrant accusing President Cristina Kirchner and the foreign minister of trying to shield Iran's role in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish center in Buenos Aires. That document was found in a trash can at the prosecutor's apartment. Nisman was found dead last month, and it's not clear if he killed himself or was murdered.

PEREIRA: We got to tell you about a pair of lucky dogs in northern Michigan. This dog jumped into the icy waters of Betsie Bay. Luckily, a coast guard from a nearby station saw him take a plunge, and then a search and rescue team pulled that dog to safety. A very happy puppy there.

And in Massachusetts, a black Lab Retriever puppy named Lucy rescued Tuesday after bolting on to a partially frozen river to chase swans. Firefighters were able to fish her out of the soup. So glad they're both OK.

CAMEROTA: Wonderful heroes getting out these dogs.

CUOMO: Both Labs, no surprise, they love the water more than they should.

All right. Up in New England, they've been getting beat down by snow. They need a reason to celebrate and so -- they have one today. Patriot pride, Boston set to honor the Super Bowl champs with a big parade today.

Let's got to CNN's Jason Carroll in Boston, that's where the festivities are going to get under way.

I see you've gotten there early to secure yourself a prime spot.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A prime spot and they're not going to probably be a lot of spots left when the parade gets under way at 11:00. The big problem that they're dealing with, Chris, as you mentioned is still all the snow mounds along the parade route here and the mayor has made it clear, he does not want the people coming out on the parade to stand on these mounds, it's going to be a safety issue. But along on the parade route here on Boylston Street if you look where we are, look, there's not a lot of space here. It might be an issue in some spots of the parade route.

On the other side you can see there is about six feet between the barrier and the sides. There are a lot of folks who wanted the parade to be postponed until this weekend. The problem with that is the mayor was worried since the players were on vacation, he was worried perhaps there wouldn't be any players around to celebrate. That's why they postponed the parade until today.

Again, hundreds of thousands of people expected to come out here, line the parade route as you said, the city looking for a reason to celebrate. And this afternoon, they'll have one -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Jason, thanks for being there. The mayor might as well tell people do not cheer and not drink hot toddys.

CAMEROTA: Right, they can't stand on the mounds, can they sled down them?

PEREIRA: Can they stand on each other's shoulders? They're like humans, sort of, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: If they wouldn't want them on them, they shouldn't be there. I know the problem is bigger than that. They don't have anywhere to put this.

CAMEROTA: That's right.

PEREIRA: All right. Ahead, back to our top story. This gruesome video showing a Jordanian fighter pilot being burned alive in a cage, a new low for extremists, a shift in strategy. We're going to take a closer look at what some are now calling a new phase for ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Breaking this morning, Jordan taking revenge on ISIS, executing two jailed terrorists for the brutal and depraved murder of a Jordanian fighter pilot. So, as the fight against ISIS heats up, what is the current state of the terror group? Who's in charge? What is their strategy?

Let's turn to Paul Cruickshank.

Good morning to you, my dear.

We have to talk about what is happening here and I think this gruesome thing is something hard for us all to even grasp. Let's look at the organization that's committing these atrocities and the leaders at the head, talk about the two men that we know, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: He's the leader of the group. U.S. officials believe he's alive and while he's got a reputation for extreme brutality. He probably signed off on this grisly murder.

PEREIRA: He's calling the shots. He's got this lieutenant, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani. What do we know about him? He's a Syrian.

CRUICKSHANK: Yes, he's the top Syrian in the group, a very important figure. He's the key spokesman, he's the guy who has been issuing all the fatwas for lone wolf terrorist attacks in the West.

PEREIRA: And it shows the growing threat in Syria, of course.

Another one that we know too well is sort of this public face that we've seen gruesomely in these horrific beheadings, we don't know that he has been involved or was there for the horrifying murder in a cage, burned to death of this Jordanian pilot, Jihadi John. Tell us anything more we know and how is he linked to these two other figures?

CRUICKSHANK: He's like a junior figure in the group.

PEREIRA: He's like a henchman essentially.

CRUICKSHANK: He's been orchestrating these beheading videos. He's believed to have been based around Raqqa in Syria. The Brits and Americans believe they know his identity. But have not been releasing it, obviously.

PEREIRA: In terms of what we know, we know that the U.S. has claimed that several leaders in ISIS have been killed. Do we know where their leadership stands at this point? Is it an ever-shifting one?

CRUICKSHANK: It is ever-shifting. There's been some claims that half the leadership have been killed. Independent experts have been somewhat skeptical about that. But there's no doubt that these airstrikes have taken a toll on the group and on the leadership.

PEREIRA: I want to ask you about this, this brutal burning of this Jordanian pilot, because we've been talking about it quite extensively. Is it showing a shift in the strategy and the tactics that they're taking? Or does it show desperation? What does it say to you?

CRUICKSHANK: I think ISIS has been remarkably consistent pulling out these kind of brutal videos and this sort of a method to the madness, you know we saw in Iraq last year they put out a bunch of these kind of videos. That really did weaken the resolve of the Iraqi military. They turned and fled from Mosul.

Despite the fact they had overriding majority in terms of numbers this time round it's likely to back-fire. There's increased support for King Abdullah and his involvement in the anti-ISIS coalition. A lot of anger right through the Middle East. Sunni Arabs against ISIS for this utterly brutal act.

PEREIRA: Specifically because they changed their tactic in burning him. This was not a beheading, brutal. This was even more gruesome and ghastly. And it's very anti-Islam, it doesn't stand for anything in Islam. Tell us about the significance of that.

CRUICKSHANK: Well, you know, clearly sort of burning with fire, something you know the Muslim faith very, they're very much against. You know anybody watching this thing, it's just utterly horrific. And I think people right throughout the Middle East are absolutely appalled by what they've seen.

PEREIRA: What do we know about Jordan? Because this is, this is the big question right now. A, how they're going to respond? We've already seen two terrorists hostage or two terrorist prisoners there hanged. They've been executed.

Do you think this is going to be the reaction? Or do you think there's more coming?

CRUICKSHANK: There's going to be a lot, lot more.

PEREIRA: What can they do?

CRUICKSHANK: Jordan is going to increase involvement in air strikes. They have very significant intelligence capabilities in Syria and in Iraq.

Back in 2006, they were very much involved in that U.S. airstrike which killed the founder of ISIS, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. So I think we can expect them to step up their involvement in this war on ISIS. But here's the worry, that ISIS and its supporters could themselves retaliate, with strikes in --

PEREIRA: There's a good number of --

CRUICKSHANK: -- in Jordan.

PEREIRA: -- Jordanian fighters within ISIS, is there not?

CRUICKSHANK: Up to 2,000 Jordanians believed to be fighting in Syria and Iraq with various jihadi groups, including is. Up to 9,000 pro- jihadi extremists believed to be active in Jordan. Just this past summer, there were demonstrations in a couple of Jordanian towns in support of ISIS.

So, that's going to be a big worry for the Jordanians. There's a homegrown extremism problem and there's the potential for terrorist attacks in the kingdom like we saw in 2005.

PEREIRA: So, this changes the game for Jordan's involvement. It has been part of the coalition, but because this has been seen as somebody else's war, they haven't taken necessarily taken a full approach to it, but this because of this brutal murder of one of their own pilots, but because the fight could come to their own territory, that makes it -- that they have to be fully engaged.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely. It's a real game-changer, it's increased support in Jordan for King Abdullah. His involvement in the anti-ISIS coalition.

But, you know, ISIS gets a vote in this, too, there's a possibility it will launch attacks in the kingdom, that's a very worrying possibility.

PEREIRA: A spokesman from Jordan's government said those who doubted the atrocities committed by ISIS have proved in reaction to the murder of their pilot. Very interesting. We'll be watching, Paul as always, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Here's the question -- what should the U.S. and our allies do to stop ISIS' reign of terror? Tweet us @newday, or go to Facebook.com/NewDay.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela.

The pictures are dramatic and terrifying, a TransAsia passenger plane falling out of the sky in Taiwan. It clips that highway, if you just saw. At least 21 people are dead, many more still missing at this hour. So, we're live with the breaking developments for you.

CUOMO: We're also on a situation in Ukraine, because it is getting worse by the hour. And the U.S. is facing tough choices. We have people who can explain the potential fallout coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. Here is the deal in Ukraine. At least 225 civilians have been killed in less than a month and thousands overall. That's according to the U.N.

In Donetsk, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh captured this footage of the airport, just rubble now, it was just rebuilt in 2012. You remember this summer, we took you there when the fighting was just starting, it was called a police action, MH-17 was shot down.

Now, parts of the whole region look like that crash site. It is a humanitarian catastrophe. People are fleeing indiscriminate shelling. What has been done so far to help is not working.

So what will the U.S. and Europe do for Ukraine and against Russia? That's the big question. Here's someone who can help us answer it: Retired General Wesley

Clark. He is now a senior fellow at the UCLA Burkle Center and a former NATO supreme allied commander.

General, thank you for joining us.

You were just in Ukraine. Do you have any question, any mitigating affect as to whether or not Russia is deeply involved there in real ways? And that this situation only gets worse if nothing is done?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK (RET.), SENIOR FELLOW, UCLA BURKLE CENTER: Well, Chris, Russia is deeply involved, they've been involved from the very start. It's been a Russian takeover plan that was rehearsed. It began with special forces, seizing the buildings in Donetsk and Luhansk last April. And Russian regular forces have been there since July -- at least since July of 2014.

This is major combat. It's not just the humanitarian catastrophe. It's not ethnic cleansing like we saw in the Balkans in Yugoslavia in the 1990s. This is actually major combat.

So, when I was there the Ukrainians told me. I was there in November during the period when we had U.S. elections, I was in Ukraine. As they explained, this is real combat. We've lost, they said, more soldiers in six weeks in fighting in Ukraine than you Americans lost in six years in Iraq. And that intensive combat continues today in Ukraine.

CUOMO: Do you think the Ukraine forces can hold off this insurgency?

CLARK: Well, it's not an insurgency. It is -- it's a calculated battle with Russian direction, support and Russian troops involved. Maybe 8,000 to 9,000 Russian troops organized in battalion level combat teams with Russian artillery, Russian direction, Russian unmanned aerial vehicles and on the outside of Ukraine, a big package of Russian air power waiting to come in.

So, this is going to be a fight that Ukraine probably cannot succeed in, without getting some support from Western allies.

Now, there would be another way to solve this, if the peace process that was initiated in august with the Minsk agreement was actually initiated. It called for the withdrawal of foreign fighters, respect of borders. None of that has been implemented. It's a sham.

And President Putin, of course, is the key participant in this and the key manager of the peace process, he's playing the game.

CUOMO: That's right. Playing the game. That's why these calls by the U.S. and their diplomats to say we have to start by honoring the Minsk agreement seem hollow at best.

So, the big question is, General, well, what does the West, specifically the U.S. do? It seems there are two paths. One is, escalate. We hear the secretary of state saying we're going to give them defensive weapons and equipment and assets to help them fight. And that will essentially create a proxy war situation for the U.S. against Russia. And it will escalate.

Do you think that is the right option?

CLARK: First of all, I don't think that can you stabilize this situation and get a diplomatic settlement unless there's more stability on the ground. So, yes, the Ukrainians need military assistance. They need substantial military assistance. Not just a few anti-tank weapons.

Right now, we've given nominally, $150 million worth of stuff. Some are night vision goggles, sure they're helpful. But we haven't given anything substantial enough to make a difference. And we're not geared up to do so. So, it would be many weeks before substantial U.S. assistance came in there.

What I would like to do is go back to the play we ran in the 1990s that brought an end to the fighting in the Balkans, in which the United States holds out the threat of the massive rearmament of the Ukrainian fighters, against Putin and encourages him to undertake a diplomatic agreement that really does stop the fighting, roll it back, and deal with the question of Crimea.

And I think if you couch it in that way, you can bring U.S. leadership to bear. You can also bring the Europeans on board. And you have a chance of preventing an escalation of the combat.

CUOMO: Well, the concern with that theory is that Russia doesn't fear the stick. And that the threat of force plays into what Putin is all about.

And the second option as I understand it at this point is that you just keep the course, stay the course of squeezing sanctions against Russia, and hoping that oil prices keep depressing their commercial power there. And eventually the war becomes too expensive for him to continue.

What about that option?

CLARK: Well, I don't think that's a winning hand. I think what happens is that other events intervene, I think the Ukrainian defense crumbles.

Remember, Putin has got three major efforts going against Ukraine. He's got the military effort. He's got the economic effort, using gas as a weapon, demanding he'd be repaid. And he's got a political effort. He still has his tentacles inside Ukraine.

And Ukraine is trying to establish a corruption-free democracy in the middle of a fight for its very existence.

CUOMO: Right.

CLARK: So, it's a tough political problem inside Ukraine.

No, I think that time has come after a year of this, that you've got to have a different policy. But I think there's a middle course that I've just articulated between simply sending weapons in and simply continuing with the current course of action.

And I think it's up to the United States and U.S. leadership to define this course and lead it if we want to stabilize and roll back conflict in Eastern Europe.

I don't think Russia is strong enough to resist strongly rearmed Ukraine. To be honest with you, Russia's modernization program is only partially completed. But the longer this goes on, the more troops and equipment he trains and rotates in and out of Ukraine, the stronger Russia becomes. He's using it as a training ground. Much as Hitler did with the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s.

CUOMO: And you've pointed out that there is historical context here, you said just squeezing economically and with sanctions, that's what the West did to Japan before it forced Japan into World War II in some people's estimate.

So, General, thank you for the perspective, both from the ground and from history of what's worked in the past. Let's see what we figure out going forward. We look forward to calling on you for help in that.

CLARK: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Again, 5,000 people killed, 12,000 wounded in just Eastern Ukraine. That's why we're covering it. It matters.

We're following a lot of news this morning. So, let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Spectacular plane crash in Taiwan, it was caught on a car's dash cam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks to me like one of the propellers was not turning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least 12 are dead, but scores still missing.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: A devastatingly ugly situation to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a passenger that ran past me, he had blood on his face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was panic going on towards the front of the train.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People were trapped inside, there were multiple fatalities.

CUOMO: Jordan is retaliating against ISIS after a captive firefighter pilot was burned alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's truly horrifying when you watch the video. That's meant to inflict terror. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just one more

indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to NEW DAY.

We are following breaking news for you. We have three major breaking stories this morning here at home, and around the world.

Jordan hanging two terrorists in retaliation for the barbaric execution of its captured fighter pilot by ISIS. We'll bring you more on that story in a moment.

But first, two spectacular and tragic crashes to tell you about. One, a fiery train wreck just north of New York City. And the other, a plane crash in Taiwan with a dramatic rescue.

CUOMO: All right. Let's start there. Take a look at this. It's a twin-engine plane in Taiwan. Not long after takeoff.

You see it there? This is caught on jaw-dropping dash cam video. It started up in the left. Just missed those buildings, hits the highway and falls into a very shallow river.

We have new information about survivors and fatalities.

CNN's David McKenzie is monitoring developments live in Beijing. What do we know?