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At Least 31 Killed as Plane Hits Bridge and Crashes; Searching for 10 More People from Plane Crash; Jordan Executes Two Prisoners in Retaliation; Jordan Promises More Retaliation for Pilot; Measles Outbreak Spreads in U.S.; Vaccine Debate

Aired February 4, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Amman, Jordan, 2:00 a.m. Thursday in Taipei. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with new developments in the deadly plane crash caught on tape in Taiwan. The death toll has just climbed to 31. The crash of that TransAsia turboprop plane amazingly captured up close on a car dash camera. In the video provided to us by our affiliate TVBS Taiwan, you can see the plane clip a bridge as it careens into the river below.

The death toll could rise even higher as search crews look for 12 people who remain missing, 15 others were injured.

Let's get some more now from CNN's David McKenzie.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This dash cam footage from Taiwan is as incredible as it is horrifying. The extraordinary scene from CNN affiliate TVBS shows the TransAsia ATR-72 shortly after take-off. Then, the unthinkable, the plane cartwheeling over an elevated highway, slamming into a barrier and then crashing a passing taxi, ditching into the Keelung River below.

Fifty-eight passengers and crew were on board the flight, incredibly, they say, there were survivors of the crash escaping the sunken fuselage. And the dramatic rescue scenes played out on live T.V. with more than 100 first responders rushing to the scene, desperately searching for more survivors.

TransAsia officials say the plane was new and recently serviced. But this is the second deadly TransAsia crash in just seven months.

CHEN XINDE, CEO, TRANSASIA AIRWAYS (translator): I would like to express our deep apologies to the victims and our crews. Again, we express our deep apologies.

MCKENZIE: Family members were left angry and distraught. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had to contact the airline first. The airline

didn't pay attention to us. They're business confirming information. Their attitude is terrible.

MCKENZIE: The reasons for the crash are unclear but the recovered flight data recorders should help investigators understand just what went so horribly wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And David is joining us, now live, from Beijing. You mentioned, David, this was the second TransAsia crash in just seven months. How's this carrier's safety record overall?

MCKENZIE (live): Well, before that crash, the one seven months ago, it was pretty good. But now, questions being asked about TransAsia. They've apologized, as you heard, two passengers and crew. But the civil aviation authority in Taiwan is taking no chances. They've now grounded, Wolf, the ATR-72 airlines in that territory, 22 of them are not allowed to fly, from now on, presumably for more checks to be put through.

I can tell you, though, that this death toll is steadily rising tragically, 31 now confirmed dead, including the pilot and co-pilot -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, a very, very tragic scene. And I'm sure this investigation will be intense. David, thanks very much.

A lot of unanswered questions about the crash. Let's bring in Mary Schiavo. She's our CNN Aviation Analyst, former inspector general to the U.S. Department of Transportation. Mary, when you see the video and it's so powerful, so dramatic, on that video, we see one of the plane's propellers not turning. What does that say to you? The other one is turning.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it looked to me like they were experiencing a left engine failure or problem with the left engine in feathering or controlling the props. We learned later, I think, that they did get a mayday call off but that's the classic response of the plane. If they had lost the left engine or if the left engine wasn't fully powered, they would turn like that. That wing would dip. But to correct for it, it takes a lot of training and you have to be prepared for a single engine operation if you lose an engine on a take-off like that. They had to -- would have had to kick in rudder and gone into overdrive and that's what you would expect if you had lost power there.

BLITZER: But you would assume that the pilot or pilots would have that kind of training if one of the engines simply crashes on take- off, they would know how to deal with it with just one engine, right?

SCHIAVO: Absolutely, that's very important training, particularly on a twin turbo prop. It's fairly tricky. Surprisingly, the number of planes that are lost when a twin engine plane loses one engine as opposed to a single engine losing the engine and then gliding down. But here, unless you had that kind of training, to lose an engine on take-off is just the worst possible time you could lose power, particularly where you're over a heavily populated area. Ordinary, if you lost power, you'd put the nose down, you'd try to take it in to the nearest available place.

But here, they had nothing but city in front of them. And it looked, to me, like perhaps the pilot was aiming for the water but, at the last minute, didn't control the plane. When it crossed the road, that is a plane out of control. That's not the normal kind of bank you would make for a turn.

BLITZER: We've seen several recent crashes involving Asian carriers, Mary, as you know, the Malaysia Flight 370, the Air Asia Flight 8501, in 2013, that Asiana crash in San Francisco. Is all of this just coincidental or is something else going on here, in terms of -- at least some experts already suggesting maybe their safety records, their precautions, their training, not as excellent as it should be?

SCHIAVO: Well, they're experiencing an aviation boom in Southeast Asia, China and many places. Not unlike what the United States experienced, you know, back in the mid-1990s when we were experiencing a huge build-up of low-cost carriers, new entrance carriers, et cetera. And there are growing pains and there's a learning curve.

And what's occurring, especially in Southeast Asia, is the huge pent- up demand for aviation and now the wealthy populace can afford to fly a lot. And some say that they will be, you know, flying, you know, far more than Americans do. And so, they're sucking off the skills and really absorbing the skills of pilots around the globe, of maintenance and a lot of persons are wondering whether they have enough skills, enough training and there's really enough resources there to support this demand in aviation.

BLITZER: We're going to stay on top of this story for our viewers. Mary, thanks very much.

There's other major news we're following, including what's being described as earth-shaking retaliation. That's what Jordan is now promising following the horrific murder of one of its fighter pilots by ISIS. Jordan has already responded by executing two jihadi prisoners.

Here are the latest headlines that are coming in. King Abdullah of Jordan arrived back in Jordan today and crowds lined the streets in a show of support. In a statement, the king condemned ISIS as a cowardly criminal organization with, quote, "no relation to our noble religion." Jordan's first response to the grisly murder of its pilot was swift. The government hanged two prisoners with ties to Al Qaeda. One was a female terrorist considered as part of a possible prisoner swap.

The F-16 fighter pilot, Muath Al Kaseasbeh, who was burned alive by ISIS is being remembered with prayers and protests. Crowds gathered at the King Kusa (ph) mosque in Amman today for prayers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: (INAUDIBLE.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Earlier, protesters vented their anger. Demonstrations were held in the Jordanian capital and in the pilot's hometown. The big question now, what more will Jordan do in response to the barbaric murder of its pilot? Our Correspondent Atika Shubert is joining us now live from the captain of Jordan in Amman. Atika, a government spokesperson is promising earth-shaking retaliation. What do we expect to happen next?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the big question. And there is no doubt that King Abdullah is under incredible public pressure to strike back hard at ISIS. Now, we've just had a statement recently issued by the Royal Hashemite court quoting the king. And the -- King Abdullah basically said that, quote, "the blood of the murder of the pilot, Muath Al Kaseasbeh, will not be in vain. The response of Jordan and its army to what happened to our dear son will be severe." He also went on to say that this fight with ISIS is not -- that ISIS is not only fighting Jordan but fighting Islam itself.

So, some very strong words from the king. But what will happen next? A lot of that depends not only on the coalition and what kind of air strikes, for example, are coming up next, but also the -- what kind of support King Abdullah can get from the family -- prominent families and tribes in this area. Remember that Kaseasbeh comes from a very prominent family in the south of Jordan. And he -- it's likely that the king will be visiting that family in the town of Karak very soon. And that is, in part, not only to offer condolences but to get the support. It is critical he has that political support to carry out that earth-shattering response he has promised to deliver.

BLITZER: And we did see, Atika, those crowds lining up in the streets in Jordan as King Abdullah's motorcade passed by. At this time yesterday, he was here in Washington. He cut short his visit, for understandable reasons, to get back to Jordan ASAP. What does all of this mean for him? I assume his position has been strengthened.

SHUBERT: His position has been strengthened for now. But that could still change in the days to come because, let's remember, public opinion was divided in the lead-up to this. There are a number of, for example, Jordanian citizens that have gone to fight with ISIS in Syria and Iraq. So, there is some measure of support for ISIS here in Jordan.

Now, that may have all turned around with this horrific video that has been released. But, especially as the frustrations of the family and perhaps the fears of other families who have sons serving in the -- in the Air Force, for example, they'll be wondering what's to -- what's to be guaranteed that this does not happen again and happen to their own sons? They want some assurances before exam -- before King Abdullah strikes back.

BLITZER: Atika Shubert in Amman. We'll, of course, get back to you. I want to get some more, now, on Jordan's response. Our Correspondent Becky Anderson is joining us now from the United Arab Emirates in Abu Dhabi. You had a chance, Becky, to speak with a top Jordanian spokesman. What was his message?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, according to the government's spokesman, Mohammad Al Momani, Wolf, who met King Abdullah within the past couple of hours, Jordan will intensify its efforts with the international coalition fighting ISIS. So, how far that will man itself -- manifest itself, well, that is still being negotiated, it seems, between the king and the army and, indeed, the coalition, not least with Washington. Do have a listen to what he said is unlikely to happen next.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD AL MOMANI, GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN, JORDAN: At this point, our policy (INAUDIBLE) put in their boots on the ground. We have said that best boots on the ground will be the Iraqi military, the Syrian moderate forces to fight terrorism, the Peshmerga in the -- in the Kurdish area. So, this is the type of boots on the ground that we talked about and the coalition talked about. So, nobody's talking about boots on the ground.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Yes, Wolf, the message from Jordan and other Arab members of the coalition is this. If ISIS is to be stopped, Jordan and others want an increase in air strikes and that means Washington committing even greater U.S. assets, of course, in support. So, perhaps, it is no coincidence that it was the Appropriations Committee that King Abdullah saw last -- before he left Washington to return to Jordan on Wednesday. This is very much, at this point, watch this space in the hours to come.

BLITZER: All right, Becky, thanks very much. Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi for us. We're going to have much more ahead on the Jordanian response to the murder of its pilot by ISIS. An expert panel is weighing in. We're getting more information, at the same time.

Other important news we're following, the measles outbreak here in the United States continues to spread. More than 100 people have now been infected already this year. So, what's being done to stop the spread of the disease? I'll ask the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Thomas Frieden is standing by live.

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BLITZER: Let's get back to Jordan's response to the murder of their pilot at the hands of ISIS. The pilot's father is calling for more revenge against ISIS, says he wants more than just the execution of prisoners. Joining us now is our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, our terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank, and our military analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Barbara, Jordan now says they're going to increase their participation in these anti-ISIS - in the anti-ISIS coalition, want to step up their air strikes. I've been told by officials who are in the know that Jordan's response now to ISIS after the execution of these two terrorists is only just beginning. So what's going on? What's the latest you're hearing?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Here's what we know, Wolf. A short time ago, a U.S. official confirming that Jordan now is in fact stepping up its participation in the air strikes against ISIS. What are we talking about? Every day the coalition puts out something to its members called an air tasking order, literally a list of targets, they apportion them out amongst the countries. Jordan now saying it wants to do more on that air tasking order and that is now happening.

It may be a slow process. It depends where the targets are located. It depends if Jordan can get to them, if they are mobile targets, what other kinds of high-tech weapons might be need to go against targets. But the bottom line now is Jordan is stepping up its participation by taking on more targets. This is something that that country and that military wants to do, something that King Abdullah wants to do.

It's going to be significant because this comes, as we have reported, that the United Arab Emirates, on the other hand, for some weeks now, has not conducted any air strikes. They remain very concerned that if one of their pilots was to go down, that search-and-rescue assets are close by, close enough to reasonably be able to get to one of their pilots. That is something, of course, that did not happen in the case of the Jordanian pilot when he went down in December.

Wolf.

BLITZER: That's a good point because the United States doesn't have a better friend in that part of the world than the United Arab Emirates.

And, General Hertling, what the UAE simply wants, I'm told, they want to make sure that if one of their pilots goes down flying over Syria or Iraq that the U.S. has assets in place, presumably in northern Iraq, to go ahead and rescue a downed pilot which the U.S. didn't have. They had rescue operations all the way in Kuwait or the UAE or Qatar, but not close to the scene of the action and apparently Turkey isn't allowing the U.S. to fly out of bases in Turkey, even though Turkey's a NATO ally. So what's going on here?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Those are called CSAR flights, Wolf, combat, search and rescue. And what I'll tell you is, anytime you put up a coalition air force, you have circles, rings, where those CSAR aircraft, the helicopters, the par jumpers from the Air Force, and people can get in with medical crews to treat any kind of downed pilot. You have circles, rings in all the different areas where you're sending coalition aircraft.

There are some difficulties because of a nonsupport by some of our allies, like Turkey, where you have to extend coverage and it takes a little bit longer time. But I think, talking what Barbara just mentioned about the ATO, the air tasking order, which is spun up every day at CENTCOM headquarters, and having Jordan say, we're going to contribute more to that, tells me they're going to up their number of airplanes, even though UAE is pulling some of their airplanes across. Jordan is very good at CSAR and they are also very good at special operations forces. So if Jordan is really upping their game and contributing more to the coalition forces, which they said they are going to do, that might cover some of other nations pulling out until we get better coordination to make sure all those CSAR coverages are in place.

BLITZER: Paul, as you know, CNN has chosen not to show the video of the pilot's brutal killing. He was burned alive in that cage. But the slick production on that 22 minute video, the fact that ISIS members are all wearing military-style uniforms, is this part of a new recruiting tool? What's going on here?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think, Wolf, that this was a calculated move by ISIS and its leader, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, to spread terror to weaken the resolve of the Jordanians and other Sunni Arab powers. They did this kind of thing in Iraq about a year ago. They put out a lot of these kind of videos and it did weaken the resolve of the Iraqi military to some degree because they turned and fled from Mosul last June. But this time around, I think it's very counterproductive. There's been a big backlash right across the region against ISIS and more support now for King Abdullah and his decision to join the anti-ISIS coalition. Jordan's going to step up military efforts and also its intelligence-gathering capabilities in Syria and Iraq. It has very significant capabilities in that regard. Back in 2006, Jordan played a key role in that U.S. air strike which took out the founder of is, Abu Musab al Zarqawi. Perhaps they'll help go after Baghdadi now.

BLITZER: Well, we'll see what happens. We're going to have more on this story coming up. Paul Cruickshank, Mark Hertling and Barbara Starr, guys, thanks very, very much.

Less than 20 years ago, measles was almost completely wiped out in the United States. But now the disease is spreading once again. We're going to speak with the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here in the United States and ask Dr. Thomas Frieden what needs to be done to stop this growing health threat.

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BLITZER: The measles outbreak in the United States has brought more attention to childhood vaccinations than at any time since the now discredited study that claimed there was a link to autism from some of these vaccinations. At last count, more than 100 measles cases are reported across the country. The largest number of cases reported in California where this latest outbreak began.

Why are so many parents refusing to get their children vaccinated? Only one in a million children - let me repeat that, only one in a million children has a serious adverse reaction to this vaccination. As our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta says, you're 100 times more likely to get struck by lightning.

With us from Atlanta to talk about the measles outbreak, vaccinations in particular, is the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Thomas Frieden.

Dr. Frieden, thanks very much for joining us.

I want you to speak directly to those parents out there who still refuse to get their children vaccinated for measles.

Dr. THOMAS FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: I get my kids vaccinated for measles and other diseases. Measles is not just a disease of the past. It's still here. Last year we had 600 cases of measles. And if we're not careful, measles will also be a disease of the future.

But we can stop it. Vaccination programs around the world have given this vaccine to more than a billion kids. In the last 10 years we've prevented more than 15 million deaths from measles around the world. This vaccine works. And study after study shows that it's safe.

But it's not just about your kids. If you don't get your kid vaccinated, it may be that the baby next door or the kid down the street who has being treated for leukemia gets infected and could get seriously ill or even die from this 100 percent preventable disease.

BLITZER: So if you had your way, Dr. Frieden, you would make it a law mandatory in the United States that every child needs to get a measles vaccination?

FRIEDEN: Most states do have vaccine mandates that require proof of vaccination before school admission. That's a state affair. That's a state issue for states and local school boards.

BLITZER: Because I'm going to play you some clips from a couple of politicians, potential presidential candidates, Rand Paul of Kentucky, Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey. Listen to what they have said in recent days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: It's much more important, I think, what you think as a parent than what you think as a public official. And that's what we do. But I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. So that's the balance that the government has to decide.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they're a good thing. But I think the parent should have some input.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

PAUL: The state doesn't own your children, parents own the children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, I want you to react to what they're saying. Should parents have the final say in whether their children get these vaccinations or should it be mandatory?

FRIEDEN: All parents are concerned about the health and safety of their kids. And that's why we want to make sure kids are safe and healthy. That's why we want to make sure that where there are diseases that can be prevented, we prevent them. As not just the director of CDC, not just as a doctor, not just as an infectious disease specialist, but as a parent, I want to make sure that we do everything we can so that no child in this country gets ill, brain-damaged or dies from a disease that could have been prevented.

BLITZER: So if a parent refuses to let their kids get vaccinated for measles -- and we're simply talking about measles, we're not talking about other potential diseases, should that child be allowed to go to public school, to private school? Should that kid be allowed to go out and potentially, potentially have an impact on others?

FRIEDEN: In most cases, most states allow medical exemptions. There are some rare medical conditions that would not allow a child to get vaccinated, treatment for certain cancers, for example, or a transplant. So there needs to be some way for kids who have a medical reason not to get vaccinated, not to be vaccinated. But the more kids aren't vaccinated, the more risk there is that measles will regain a foothold in this country.

Around the world, measles continues to kill 150,000 kids a year. The measles vaccine is very effective. It works 93 percent, 97 percent of the time. It's one of our most effective vaccines. That's important because measles is one of, if not the most infectious of all infectious diseases.

BLITZER: We're seeing seen all around the world right now, Dr. Frieden. So what you're saying to parents all over the world, get your gets vaccinated for measles, right?

FRIEDEN: Absolutely. We think of it sometimes as a minor disease or a disease of the past. First off, it's not always minor. Many kids end up in the hospital. About one in 1,000, even in the U.S., would end up severely ill, dying or possibly having brain damage as a result. And globally, in communities that have more marginal nutritional status or other health problems in kids, the death rate for measles can be very high. It's a deadly disease but a highly effective vaccine.

BLITZER: Dr. Thomas Frieden, the head of the CDC here in the United States. Good advice. I hope all parents were listening and heed your advice, heed Dr. Sanjay Gupta's advice, the advice of all the experts, get that vaccination for your kids so they don't break out with measles.

Thanks very much for joining us.

FRIEDEN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Please be sure to visit CNN.com for the latest information, the latest interviews on the measles outbreaks. By the way, Dr. Sanjay Gupta has an excellent article on this entire issue. Check it out.

Coming up, a plane falls out of the sky. The incident caught on camera. What caused the deadly crash? We'll discuss that and a lot more. Stay with us.

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