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Deal for Ukrainian Cease-Fire; CBS's Bob Simon Dies in Car Wreck; Indian Man Hospitalized in Alabama After Police Dispute; Egyptian Journalists Freed

Aired February 12, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A breakthrough in the crisis in Eastern Ukraine, a cease-fire deal due to start in just three days. But will it hold and will fighting intensify until then?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A chilling text message suggests Chris Kyle knew something was off with the man who would kill him moments later. The media drama in the American sniper trial.

BOLDUAN: Did it stem from an ongoing parking dispute or was it something much deeper and worse? Three Muslim college students shot in the head. A college town rocked. Today the search for why.

Good morning. And thanks for joining us. I'm Kate Bolduan.

BERMAN: And I'm John Berman. Great to see you.

Breaking overnight, there is a deal. The question is, is it real and will it stick? Thousands have died in what has become an all-out war in eastern Ukraine, and this morning, after a marathon night of negotiations, and moments when it looked like it all might fall apart, Russian leader Vladimir Putin and the president of Ukraine agreed on a cease-fire.

It is scheduled to take effect midnight between Saturday and Sunday. It includes withdrawal of heavy weapons, the creation of a demilitarized zone but complicated hazy agreements on who governs the region and who controls the borders.

BOLDUAN: It does seem a fragile peace agreement at best, though, with all sides saying the work is far from over.

Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is in Minsk, Belarus, where the talks took place. And senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is on the ground in Donetsk, Ukraine, where they've seen some of the worst destruction and bloody -- and killing there.

Nic Robertson, let's start with you. So you're in Belarus. You were there for the talks. You're waiting to hear from all these leaders. What do the terms of the cease-fire really mean?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the German foreign minister said that not everything was achieved. And I think that's really the headline here, that after 17 hours of talks, at one point in the last couple of hours of the talks, the Ukrainian president saying there wasn't enough on the table, the separatists in the southeast of Ukraine saying the same thing, it looked like falling apart.

It seems that the leaders after such long talks all the way through the night sort of parked what they got, as much as they could get, far from complete. The issues, obviously, the cease-fire doesn't come into place for two and a half days. That allows for slippage, allows for problems, the potential of escalation.

All this is sequenced. You have the cease-fire. If that works, you get the pullback of heavy weapons. If that works, you get a demilitarized zone. If that works, then the separatists get local elections. If that works, then the Ukrainian government gets to control its border between the separatist region and Russia, something that was very important for them.

So all of this relies on trust. It relies on that trust improving and growing. And that, of course, was what was in very short supply here in Minsk. So there are a lot of questions and a lot of concerns moving forward.

Kate, John?

BERMAN: So many ifs and so much reliance on trust, really in an area where there is none. It sounds like a perilous agreement.

I want to bring in Nick Paton Walsh who's in Donetsk. Nick, what we've seen in the past here when you have these agreements, particularly when there's an agreement with a delay in the implementation, is there's some land grab. The fighting actually intensifies before the moment the deal is supposed to take effect.

What are you seeing on the ground there and what's the reaction been to this agreement?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's potentially a very dangerous 50 hours ahead. As you know, there's an intense fight going through a town to the northeast of me, Debaltseve, which has been raging for the past week.

Now, interestingly, in his comments, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, kind of suggested that he thought the Ukrainian soldiers in there should give themselves up as part of that deal, so will be a key flashpoint in the days ahead, certainly put aside the potential for any of these stray shelling instances to hit individuals in both civilian-held areas on the Ukrainian separatist side. That could seriously upset the agreement too.

As you know, historically all there has to be is for one part of the agreement for the sides to feel hasn't been honored for the rest of it to fall apart. But you also have to ask yourselves on the ground, at a basic level on the battlefield, how the separatist fighters react to some kind of complex sequence deal like this.

Now we broke the news to some of them down the frontlines to the south of Donetsk where I'm standing near a city called -- sorry, a town called -- Dokuchaievsk, and their basic reaction was, We don't trust the Ukrainian military, we won't stop fighting until we have all of the next Donetsk region, and we really don't think we can do much else other than live separate from the rest of Ukraine.

John?

BERMAN: Ominous. Why would they give up if they think they're winning? Nick Paton Walsh for us in Donetsk, Nic Robertson in Belarus, gentlemen, thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you both so much.

So will the cease-fire hold? That's of course the key question. Do European allies trust Vladimir Putin? Will the deal lead to the end of the bloody crisis in Ukraine?

A lot of questions. Former Senator Joe Lieberman, he's going to be joining us in just a few minutes to give his take.

But now let's turn to the fight against ISIS and President Obama's war plan now in the hands of Congress. The debate really centers on ground troops -- whether or not Congress will limit how and where the president can send in U.S. forces. The debate already raging on Capitol Hill.

BERMAN: Yeah, the president really trying to thread a congressional needle here. He faces opposition from both parties.

Want to bring in White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski. And, you know, Michelle, this operation has been going on for six months. The bombing's been going on for six months.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

BERMAN: After all that time you might think that official authorization might come quickly. You might think that, but you'd be wrong.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, when you think about it, it's not really necessary. The White House says that the existing authorization, which, by the way, in this request still stands, gives them all the authority they need to continue. So that's just one part of the bizarre puzzle that is this new authorization for the use of military force.

But we're hearing a taste of that debate now. It's in the House foreign relations committee. They're not debating the AUMF, per se. It's about strategy versus ISIS, but of course, this is coming up. We're hearing some on the committee urge for more flexibility while some of the speakers are worried about this leading to a greater war, bringing up the specter, even, of Vietnam.

So this is just a little bit of what we'll be hearing. We know that there are Democrats who would like to see this AUMF request more restrictive. Many Republicans would like to see it less restrictive. So where will it end? It could take many weeks for this to come really to a conclusion. And that would mean either Congress approving the president's language, not approving it and not acting, not really authorizing a new document on that, or tweaking it and coming up with their own.

John and Kate?

BERMAN: It's a debate worth having. This is their job, to authorize the use of military force. Glad to see it's finally happening at some level.

Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much.

New information this morning in the death of Bob Simon, the "60 Minutes" correspondent was killed last night in a car accident in New York City. The town car he was riding in hit another car and slammed into a metal highway barrier.

Police say that Simon's driver, who did survive, might have been speeding. They also say that both drivers passed sobriety tests and also Simon did not appear to be wearing his seatbelt.

Bob Simon reported in some of the most dangerous places on earth and did so brilliantly in a half-century career that was really simply marvelous. He spent 40 days as a hostage in Iraq once.

This is how his CBS colleague Scott Pelley broke the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: The veteran correspondent has been with "60 Minutes" since 1996, and he is renowned for his international coverage. Vietnam is where he first began covering warfare, and he gave us firsthand reporting from virtually every major battlefield around the world since.

During the beginning of the first Gulf War in 1991, Bob and his CBS News crew were captured and detained as POWs for 40 days in Iraqi prisons.

His body of work earned Bob too many journalistic honors to count here tonight. Bob's daughter Tanya is a talented producer for "60 Minutes," and tonight our thoughts are with Tanya and Bob's family and his many, many friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Bob Simon was the reporter that so many of us, including me, wanted to be. He won 27 Emmys for his work at CBS and "60 Minutes." He was 73 years old.

BOLDUAN: And Scott Pelley, who is often pretty unflappable, you can see the anguish in his face, having to deliver that news to all of CBS's viewers. Other headlines that we're looking at. A police officer in Alabama has been suspended after he put a grandfather in the hospital with very serious injuries. Fifty-seven-year-old Chirag Patel is from India. He doesn't speak English. He was visiting his son and his young grandson near Huntsville. But that's what he looks like now.

Patel was walking in the neighborhood when someone reported a suspicious person. Police say there was a communication problem, and Patel resisted a pat-down. And the officer then forced him to the ground.

Patel's spine was damaged in that, and he's now partially paralyzed they say. Authorities promise a full investigation. Officials say there's audio and video of the incident. An attorney says the family plans to file a lawsuit.

BERMAN: New this morning, two al Jazeera journalists imprisoned for more than a year in Egypt, they were finally released pending trial. This was the scene in the courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Finally.

These journalists were convicted of supporting the banned Muslim Brotherhood. They pled innocent -- or they pled not guilty, I suppose. They appealed and they will face a retrial now.

Amnesty International says they are being used as pawns in a dispute between Egypt and Qatar, the country that finances -- it's owned by the Qatari royal family. Egypt is the sixth-leading jailer of journalists in the world.

So Vladimir Putin must pay. That is the aggressive stance from former senator Joe Lieberman. Coming up, we'll ask him if he thinks this cease-fire in Ukraine has a chance of sticking.

BOLDUAN: And bombshell in the American sniper trial as it's just getting under way, a text message sent by Chris Kyle, the American sniper, about the man who would shortly thereafter kill him. Why it might bolster the defendant's case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, so overnight they did make a deal, a deal that is supposed to bring peace to eastern Ukraine where thousands have died in a bloody conflict that has been growing worse by the day.

BOLDUAN: Even though Russian president Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian president Poroshenko, they have agreed to a deal, will it hold? Will the cease-fire hold? Or will it fall apart like the last agreement reached just in September? Let's bring in former senator Joe Lieberman to discuss. Senator, it's great to see you. You've been following this very closely. You were just overseas at a security conference where this was the topic.

JOSEPH LIEBERMAN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Right.

BOLDUAN: Are you optimistic? Will this hold? Will this lead to the end?

LIEBERMAN: I'm skeptical. Obviously it's better that a cease-fire seems to have been reached than not. But why am I skeptical? Two reasons.

This is essentially the same agreement that was achieved in Minsk last September with a few more details and that was violated almost right away. The second is that these people don't trust each other, and there's an imbalance of strength. The separatists have the backing of Putin and Russia.

And the Ukrainians don't have that kind of backing, which I still think we should give them. I still believe the West, certainly the United States, should give the Ukrainian fighters the weapons with which to defend themselves.

BERMAN: Now, before you see if this deal works?

LIEBERMAN: I do. Because I think if we give them the weapons to defend themselves, it actually raises the prospects that the cease-fire will hold because it creates a little more balance on the ground and creates a bit of a disincentive for Putin and the separatists to keep moving through eastern Ukraine.

The danger here is that this cease-fire line will become permanent and eastern Ukraine will become, well, like Berlin during the Cold War, divided --

BERMAN: But you don't want to wait to see whether it works before you start sending weapons? Are you concerned --

BOLDUAN: That seems to be President Obama's approach. There was a discussion he wanted to hold and see if this cease-fire -- if this can happen along diplomatic lines first.

LIEBERMAN: Right. So my guess is the president will not want to send weapons. I don't agree. I think that this is the time for us to - First, let's go back and remember what happened. This started because the Ukrainian people voted to associate with the European Union. They wanted to turn west. They want freedom. They don't want Putin's autocracy and demagoguery. And he couldn't take that. He began to supply weapons to the separatists, seize Crimea. It's the biggest challenge to NATO, our alliance, since the end of the Cold War. And if we just sit back, he's going to continue to eat up pieces of the countries around him.

BERMAN: Look, no question, there's a war raging right now in eastern Europe, which is not the type of thing you expect to see in this day and age. But let's play this out then. You arm the Ukrainians, you arm the Ukrainian military. Russia then, as a response, does what? They send in more tanks or heavier weaponry. Then what do you do?

BOLDUAN: No one thinks that Ukraine can out-weapon, out-man, have more strength than Russia.

BERMAN: But what's the next step then if Russia escalates?

LIEBERMAN: The Ukrainian army can't beat Russia in an open conflict because the Russian army is so big. The Ukrainians are good fighters and they're fighting for their freedom, for their own independence. I'm not saying this is without risk, but to me, we've got the people of Ukraine -- President Poroshenko, who I met with with the U.S. delegation in Munich, he pleaded with us -- please send us the arms. We can't defend ourselves.

BOLDUAN: Why don't you think President Obama will send arms?

LIEBERMAN: I think, in part, this is the general sort of holding back from getting involved in conflicts elsewhere in the world. It's been part of the administration. Frankly, I think part of it is that our allies in Europe are urging President Obama to sit back --

BOLDUAN: It sounds like Secretary Kerry, privately at least, and maybe he said it to you, he's in favor - There's some suggestion that he's in favor of sending arms. Did you hear that?

LIEBERMAN: I don't want to report any private conversations.

BERMAN: That sounds like a yes to me.

LIEBERMAN: But there's clearly a debate going on within the administration about whether to send them weapons or not. To me, we're all about freedom. We're all about responding to people who are asking us for help in defending their people.

BERMAN: But Senator, and you know a lot more about this than I do, help me understand then how it does play out. Because Vladimir Putin has shown no sign of backing down. If you send Ukraine more weapons, if Vladimir Putin sends in more weapons, how far are you willing to go?

LIEBERMAN: The alternative is to yield. One explanation of why Putin has agreed to the cease-fire now is that he's beginning to be hurt by the sanctions, economic sanctions, against him. The European Union has adopted more sanctions which they were going to implement if the cease-fire wasn't agreed to. So he's got an economic incentive to make this deal, but he doesn't have a track record for keeping deals like this. So what's the response? Either you agree to let Putin and the separatists essentially control a large part of Ukraine, which they've taken by aggression, or you confront them. Let's say he does respond to us sending weapons to the Ukrainian army. Our response, I think, is to ratchet up the sanctions and hurt his economy even more. Because they're already suffering now as a result of the drop in the price of oil. As I said before, NATO, we always say, is the most successful military alliance in history. We won the Cold War. This is the most serious challenge, the Russian movement into Ukraine, most serious challenge to NATO since the end of the Cold War. And this is a hot war. This is not a cold war. They're fighting on the ground. Over 5,000 Ukrainians have been killed in this war. I just don't think we can sit back and think it's not going to continue to move over Europe. So the question is, do you take them on now, or do you wait until he's swallowed up more of eastern Europe?

BERMAN: Senator, will you come back and talk to us again about this and other subjects, as well?

LIEBERMAN: I'd be honored to.

BERMAN: We loved having you here. Appreciate it.

LIEBERMAN: Thank you. My pleasure.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, Senator.

LIEBERMAN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: All right. Coming up for us, just before he was shot and killed, former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle sent a text message. We'll have more about the message and why it might help the defense in the "American sniper" murder trial. That story and the emotional testimony is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So much emotion, so much drama already in the trial of the man accused of killing "American sniper" Chris Kyle. Right now, there's an investigator on the stand from this case. Of course, Eddie Ray Routh is accused of killing Kyle and his friend Chad Littlefield at a firing range in 2013.

BOLDUAN: The first day of the trial featured emotional testimony from Kyle's widow. Taya Kyle says she could tell something was wrong when she spoke to her husband on the phone shortly before he was killed.

BERMAN: The defense is mounting an insanity case here. They read texts from Kyle about his accused killer, and the defense argues these texts show that just before he was killed, Kyle had concerns about Routh's mental and emotional stability.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM MOORE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He texts him, "This dude is straight up nuts." "This dude is straight up nuts." And Chad Littlefield texts Chris Kyle back, "He's right behind me, watch my six."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's bring in CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin with more on this. Sunny, a very emotional day. But on this point that we just heard in the courtroom about the text messages. What a surprise. It's surprising that text messages by Chris Kyle are being used by the defense. SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I will tell you, that text message is

going to be very helpful to the defense. Because the issue here is not who did it. Right? It's not a whodunit case. It's just whether or not he was insane at the time when he committed the murders. Because he's admitted to doing this. He admitted it to his sister. So now you have at the time --

BERMAN: Basically testimony from the victim here.

HOSTIN: That's right. You have it at the time when they were together saying, "I think this guy is nuts." I think that's really significant, especially because when you look at the insanity defense, it's brought forth in felony cases less than 1 percent of the time. It's even less successful in - It's only successful in a fraction of those cases. It's very rarely successful. You need to be able to prove that at the time it occurred, someone was nuts, someone was suffering from some sort of mental disorder. What better evidence than a text from the victim? I've got to tell you, I rarely say that these defenses are going to be successful, but I think in this case the defense has a very strong chance of being successful.

BERMAN: What about the fact this guy had been hospitalized, right?

BOLDUAN: A couple times.

BERMAN: He had been in and out of the hospital for mental issues. Does that matter at all, or is it really just the moment of that matters?

HOSTIN: Well, I think it certainly matters. I will tell you, I was a juror on a case involving insanity, and we found him guilty but not responsible because of insanity. There was, in that case, just a very long history of institutionalization by -- for that defendant, and I can tell you that I, myself, thought that that was important and my fellow jurors thought it as well. So certainly, jurors will look at whether or not this is just some shady defense that just pops up out of nowhere, or did this person really have a history of mental illness, or is he faking it? So when you have someone that has that history in and out, you have someone that was a soldier, you have someone that -- who confessed and whose family says, gosh, he was having so much trouble, sort of reintegrating into the community, I think you have a pretty successful defense.

BOLDUAN: And then you have on the flip side, Chris Kyle's very emotional wife on the stand just kind of laying out what she -- what happened that day. He contacted her, he was acting strange, even when he was talking to her, and she's wearing his dog tags throughout the whole thing.

HOSTIN: It's tragic all the way around. But I think this defendant will see some sympathy from the jury.

BERMAN: Sunny Hostin, it will be very interesting to see. We'll be watching it closely. You'll come back again.

HOSTIN: Thank you. BOLDUAN: Thanks, Sunny.

BERMAN: All right. A crime that has rattled so many in North Carolina, and frankly, the Muslim community all over the country. The question is, was this a hate crime? Three Muslim college students shot in the head. Could it really have just been a parking dispute?

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