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Arrests Connected to ISIS; Routh Trial Verdict; Al Jazeera Staff Arrested

Aired February 25, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York, in for Brooke Baldwin today.

We are following breaking news at this hour. The battle against ISIS reaches U.S. soil. Right now, three New Yorkers are in custody, accused of trying to join the vicious terror group. And at this very moment, two of those suspects are due in federal court here in Brooklyn. According to court documents just released today, one suspect even offered to kill President Obama if ISIS ordered him to do so.

Another suspect was arrested just this morning at New York's JFK Airport trying to board a flight to Turkey and eventually get to Syria. Court documents show he once considered getting a machine gun and shooting FBI agents and police officers if his plans to join ISIS in Syria were thwarted along the way. Just last night, National Security Adviser Susan Rice talked about the potential for an ISIS attack inside the U.S. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: ISIL has the potential and perhaps the intent to try to attack the U.S. homeland. To date, their ability to carry out attacks AGAINST U.S. persons, interests, facilities, even overseas, is thus far limited. But we recognize that they have an ambition and an ideology that poses a threat not only to the people in the countries of the Middle East, but also have acted in Europe and elsewhere more broadly. And so we take that very seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining me now to discuss further, we have global affairs analyst Bobby Ghosh. He is the managing editor at "Quartz." Also here with me is Evan Perez, our CNN justice correspondent.

I want to start with you, Evan. I know you're still learning more details about this most recent arrest. What do you know now about these suspects?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that these suspects got on the radar of the FBI last summer. And after the FBI saw them posting very alarming things on the Internet in an Uzbek website that traffics in ISIS ideology and propaganda, they decided to introduce them to an undercover informant who then was able to record them as they talked about what their plans were. And we know that, in addition to traveling to Turkey and then eventually to Syria to join ISIS, if they were thwarted in those plans, they were talking about carrying out attacks in this country, perhaps trying to assassinate President Obama or kill police officers or FBI agents or even bomb Coney Island. One of the suspects is on these websites talking about those plans.

CABRERA: And that's what's so crazy to me, Bobby, I mean they're online. It's essentially a public forum. Anybody could intercept these communications.

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Right.

CABRERA: Are they just kind of taunting law enforcement to take action?

GHOSH: Well, yes, I think there's some of that. There's some of -- in a lot of these sites you see the sort of (INAUDIBLE). You see people saying, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. This probably explains why the FBI waited for someone to actually buy a ticket and try to get on a plane before acting. It's one thing to make sort of rash statements online. It brings you into focus and it makes the FBI start paying attention. But they will probably not begin to act just on the basis of rash threats. They will wait for you to take some action.

We also know that the FBI was able to plant an informant so they were able to get quite a lot of information about what this - what these three were trying. One of the three is in the court documents is (INAUDIBLE) off as being part of or running a network. This guy, it would appear, he's the oldest of the three, it would appear that he's an enabler. He's the one who sort of make the connections from people here and people over in Syria and Turkey.

CABRERA: We know some of them were from Uzbekistan. Another guy from Kazakhstan. Evan, where are they going in terms of - you know, where did they get this ideology? Were they already somewhat more swayed towards radicalization being here in the U.S.?

PEREZ: It does appear that at least one of them got the attention of his own mother. And this is something that, you know, law enforcement actually is hoping that, you know, when some family member notices that somebody is getting radicalized and perhaps thinking about doing this, that they - that they speak up and they do something. And so apparently one of the - one of these guys, his mom thought that perhaps he might be heading this direction and perhaps, you know, planning to travel to Syria. She took away his passport and so he then decided he was going to come up with alternative ways, perhaps telling his mom that he was going to go to Uzbekistan to visit family and in that way try to carry out his plan.

And, you know, I'll read you real quick the posting that got the FBI really particularly interested from one of the suspects. He's 24 years old. His name is Abdurasul Juraboev. He says, "is it possible to commit ourselves as dedicated martyrs anyway while here? What I'm saying is, to shoot Obama and then get ourselves shot," which is, you know, an indication, perhaps, of, as Bobby says, you know, sometimes these guys aren't that very bright. And, you know, thank God, right, because that's what - that's how sometimes the FBI and the Justice Department's national security division can do something about him. The fear for the FBI and for the Justice Department is that there's some of them that they don't know anything about.

CABRERA: Well, on the flip side here, I mean they're obviously living in America, aren't from America originally. Why such an anti-American sentiment coming from these suspects, Bobby?

GHOSH: Well, there are any number of reasons for that. These guys are from Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, countries where there is a history of Islamic extremism. We've seen this happening most recently in Europe that people born and raised, remember the attackers in Paris were born and raised in France. French nationals. These guys are not citizens. Those are French nationals. It just shows you that this ideology can reach far beyond the immediate surroundings of the Middle East into societies where you would expect people have better opportunities, exposed to a wider range of ideas than people living in some small village in Syria.

And it sort of gives the lie to the idea that only those young, disillusioned, unemployed, poor Arab kids are sort of suspect to this kind of ideology. It shows that this ideology can appeal. You have to assume that these are not quote-unquote normal people. That they are damaged in some way. This is not normal thinking to want to assassinate the president of the United States and go and become martyrs in some foreign country. But there are people like that in all societies and thanks to modern communication, thanks to social media, ISIS is able to leap frog over all kinds of security barricades and reach these people.

CABRERA: So what's crazy is, you look at the media coverage of ISIS in the last six months, since they really came on the scene, and it seems that this terrorist group has been exposed. There are no secrets about what they are about. They are all about the terror, the horror, seemingly indiscriminant. I mean they go after women, children, Muslims, Jewish people, Christian people. So how does it seem so easy for them to still recruit?

GHOSH: Because it's looking easy. I mean there -- there will be a small number of sadists and sort of twisted individuals in many societies. What appeals to them to go here to Syria and Iraq is, they're seeing that there's almost impunity. You can go and fight there, you can kill, you can rape, you can pillage and you - and no one's going to stop you. This will change once there are strong military victories against ISIS. Once those same television sets are showing, you know, ISIS soldiers being killed in large numbers or being arrested and territory being taken back from them, that's when these hot headed young people are going to start thinking, wait a minute, maybe it's not so easy. Right now it's looking too easy.

CABRERA: Right.

GHOSH: You can just go there and the Iraqi army will just put their guns down and walk away and you can do whatever you want. Nobody has challenged that.

PEREZ: They've definitely succeed in making look what they're doing over there in some glamorous way. You know they've made it look like you can come over here and you can be part of something. And, you know, for a lot of young people, especially young men at a certain age, you know, that can be attractive. You know, that's a lot of - a reason why a lot of them join the military because they want some - they want some adventure. And so what ISIS has very been - very good about is portraying some kind of reality that, frankly, is just not true but somehow speaks to some young people. And they can, like Bobby was saying, you know, some of them are middle class kids. You know, they're not just people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

CABRERA: Right, and yet they're portraying this online with their propaganda, but we're here, sitting here revealing the truth and people are still going along.

Before we talk more, I want to play some sound with the FBI director just today talking about ISIS recruiting. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: ISIL in particular is putting out a siren song through their slick propaganda, through social media that goes like this. Troubled soul, come to the caliphate, right. You will live a life of glory. These are the apocalyptic end times. You will find a life of meaning here fighting for our so-called caliphate. And if you can't come, kill somebody where you are, right. That is a message that goes out to troubled souls everywhere, resonates with troubled souls, people seeking meaning in some horribly misguided way. Those people exist in every state. I have homegrown violent extremist investigations in every single state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That last line, homegrown violent extremist investigations in every single state. Bobby, how confident should the American people be that the FBI is all over this?

GHOSH: Well, I would think that a fair degree of confidence because this is not the first time - and it is not new. The FBI has been tracking these kinds of groups for many, many years. Pretty much ever since 9/11. And they've got -- they've gotten a pretty good track record of preventing anything really harmful taking place. The Boston bombing was one rare exception. And so, yes, I would be - I would be quite confident of the FBI.

But you worry that this is a very, very large haystack, this country. And even if there are a lot of needles, it's going to be hard to find them. And you - you have to worry at some level, what if, just as with the Boston bombers, one of them just slips through the cordum (ph), slips through the dragnet. That's what really frightens people. (INAUDIBLE) --

CABRERA: People have already slipped through the cracks, but fortunately they got these guys in New York. PEREZ: Well, we got - we -

CABRERA: Again, they are innocent until proven guilty and due in court right now. What can we expect, Evan?

PEREZ: Right. Well, we expect that they're going to get read the charges. This is not over. I mean this is just the beginning of this case. We know that they were arrested overnight and the FBI was talking to them to - trying to figure out if there's more to this, who else is a part of this.

And, you know, Ana, one of the scary parts of this story is that, you know, the FBI, you know, in talking to the FBI the last couple of years, you know, one of the things they've been looking for is the -- any sign of a network of these types. You know they've - and you've seen one off here or there, you know, one person, two persons going over, siblings in particular.

CABRERA: Yes.

PEREZ: This one, they are alleging that there is a network. And that really means that they have their work cut out for them. And this is a case that's going to reverberate for the FBI because now they have to figure out whether where else something like this could be developing.

CABRERA: Well, one of these guys was arrested in Florida, right?

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. What was he doing there? It's not clear from the charges that were brought today. But, you know, that's something that we're going to be following up on.

CABRERA: All right, Evan Perez, Bobby Ghosh, thanks to both of you. We'll be talking to you still throughout the day here on CNN.

Much more ahead on this breaking news story out of New York City. We are expecting a news conference with New York officials shortly. We'll bring that to you live.

Also ahead, new developments involving those mysterious drones spotted for a second straight night now over landmarks in Paris. And now the U.S. Secret Service is getting involved. We'll have a live report.

Also, a guilty verdict in the American sniper murder trial. We're now getting our first look, hearing the first sound at some of the most powerful moments and the evidence used in court during the suspect's insanity defense.

Plus, a winter storm slamming parts of the south right now. We have a busy hour ahead. So don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The loved ones of famed American sniper Chris Kyle got the justice they had been seeking now for the last two years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Kind of hard to hear what she said there. "It's done." And that's what Chris Kyle's mother heard through tears as she embraced her brother and other family members. Brother of Chris Kyle was there as well. Moments before a jury of 10 women, two men found Eddie Ray Routh guilty of murdering Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield. Jurors rejected the defense claim that Routh was not guilty because he was insane when he pulled the trigger. He shot Kyle six times and Littlefield seven with the majority of those shots in the victims' backs. Littlefield's mother also spoke after the verdict was read.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDY LITTLEFIELD, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: We're so thrilled that - that we have the verdict that we had tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Jurors took less than three hours to convict the 27-year-old man who will now spend the rest of his life in prison. One juror told "Good Morning America" she saw a pattern of Routh claiming insanity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I say there's a pattern that we saw, it was, you know, he would be -- he would get intoxicated, get in trouble and then the police would show up and he would say, I'm a veteran, I have PTSD, I'm insane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With me now, HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson and CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos.

Danny, what do you think was the most compelling piece of evidence? What was it that clinched it for the prosecution?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Two major pieces. Number one - both are video. One would have been the video of him fleeing from the police, because the police are people who arrest you when you do something illegal. That shows that he knew what --

CABRERA: So it shows he knew he did something wrong.

CEVALLOS: You got it. The second one would be the video where the investigators expertly asked the right questions because they know the statute and they asked him, did you know what you did was wrong? And he says, yes, yes, I did. So those had to be very critical piece of evidence because ultimately you can have a mental disease or defect and be not insane. There was plenty of evidence of mental disease, but the ultimate question was whether or not Routh knew what he was doing was wrong at the time that he did it. And the jury, it appears, answered that question pretty easily. JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: And pretty quickly.

CABRERA: There's still some - and there's still some question about the motives. I want to ask you, Joey, Danny just mentioned the - that interview with Routh and that being a damming piece of evidence.

JACKSON: Sure.

CABRERA: His own words that were used against him in this - in this particular case. I want to play a piece of sound from Routh. This is during an interview source with the officer who was taking him into custody after his arrest in the patrol car. Listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) are you all right back there?

EDDIE RAY ROUTH: I'm just so nervous about what's going to happen to me in my life today. I don't know what's going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you worry about that right now, OK.

ROUTH: I've been so paranoid and schizophrenic all day, I don't know what to even think of the world right now. I don't know if I'm insane or sane. I don't know what's even sane in the world right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So he even brings up, I don't know if I'm sane, I don't know if I'm insane.

JACKSON: Yes.

CABRERA: Obviously jurors thought he was faking it to some degree or trying to kind of sway the case already right then and there.

JACKSON: He did (ph).

CABRERA: Did the defense make any mistakes along the way?

JACKSON: You know, it's not so much, Ana, that the defense made mistakes as well as the prosecution honed in on, hey, guess what, and it showed in that clip, this guy knew how to get out of it. Why? Because when he had the argument with his family at a fish fry earlier, it was in September of last year, and he said, I'm going to kill all of you and I'm going to kill myself. What happened? He said, I'm not feeling well, I'm mentally ill. Guess what? He goes to a mental institution.

Later on, when he holds captive his girlfriend and he holds captive the roommate with a sword saying I'm hearing things, you're going nowhere, again the police come, he doesn't go to jail, he goes to a mental institution. So it played into the theme that the prosecution used, this guy's manipulating the system. Why? He knows what to say so that the police will take him to that mental place and not take him to that other place we call jail. Finally, if you look at what the prosecution did, in terms of

"Seinfeld," right, saying that there was a "Seinfeld" episode relating to pigs and he used that episode again to say, flying pigs, have men, half human, half pig, again, the jury felt he's faking.

CABRERA: The idea didn't come from his own mind.

JACKSON: Exactly. And that's what the prosecution really did effectively, I think.

CABRERA: We now know one of the jurors saw the blockbuster movie "American Sniper." In fact, listen to what he also said on "Good Morning America" this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gave me a better outlook on Chris' role as a Marine and what that job entitles, a greater respect for it. But as far as the actions that took place on February 2nd, you know, Chad was still in the picture and Chad was not in that movie. I basically put the fact that Chris was a Marine, you know, out of my mind and just looked at him as a person, looked at Chad as a person, looked at Eddie as a person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So the fact this guy saw the "American Sniper" movie where Chris Kyle is the hero, how did he end up on the jury?

CEVALLOS: Judges have a lot of discretion in this area. There's no hard-and-fast rule. But what the judge will do is take a juror aside and say, based on what you've heard or read or seen, can you base your verdict on just the facts in this case? Can you put those opinions you have aside, anything you may have seen beforehand, and render a true and impartial verdict? And for that reason, because there's so much discretion vested in the court, you see a wide variety, depending even on the jurisdiction. If you're in a small town, you can't get rid of too many jurors because sooner or later you run out of jurors. So courts in smaller towns may take a different view of, say, a jury with a pool of 500 people. So it - really it does depend from court to court. And you see decisions that are all over the place in this area.

CABRERA: And we know this is a small town, 18,000 people in this part of Texas, so maybe that played into it.

Real quick, want to talk about who you might call the star witness. I mean this is Chris Kyle's wife, now his widow, Taya. Very emotional at times on the stand. Again, we're just now hearing this audio because the judge wouldn't allow the release of audio during the actual trial.

JACKSON: Right.

CABRERA: But listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where that's taken?

TAYA KYLE, WIDOW OF MURDER VICTIM: I do. It was in Scottsdale, Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State's Exhibit 123.

Take a minute if you need to.

KYLE: Sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: You can feel Taya's grief as she looks at pictures with her husband, with family members. Was emotion a driving factor in the jury's decision? I mean how much could that hurt the defense, Joey?

JACKSON: You know, Ana, you have to believe that she really connected with that jury. And why would she connect with that jury? This is a grieving widow. This is the wife of someone who was assisting veterans who served his country, four tours in Iraq. And what was his sin here? What was Chris Kyle's sin? Assists yet another veteran by making them better.

CABRERA: Trying to help.

JACKSON: He's trying to help. He ends up dead. And so, at the end of the day, certainly the jury would have looked at her and said, you know what, that loss, there needs to be some accountability for it. And to the extent that you're sitting in that chair, Eddie Ray Routh, and there's so many factors that we can see that show your premeditation, you're the guy that's being held accountable, you aren't insane, you're guilty. You knew right from wrong. And that's exactly what this jury did.

CABRERA: Well, Joey Jackson, Danny Cevallos, thanks for being there along the way for the ride to describe and help us understand the trial at hand.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ana.

CEVALLOS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Thank you.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Thank you.

CABRERA: Up next, drones over the streets of Paris. And there were more of these unmanned devices spotted in the French capital last night. How the U.S. Secret Service plans to help.

Plus, we're just getting word, three journalists from al Jazeera have been arrested in Paris for flying drones. Are they connected? Details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)