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Identity Of Jihadi John Revealed; U.S. Officials Confirm Jihadi John Identity; Terror Plot Uncovered On U.S. Soil; Men Considered Killing Obama, Cops FBI; Will Unmasking Face Of Terror Group Help; Were Terror Suspects In Touch With ISIS; 2014 Terrorism Most Lethal In 45 Years; 2016 GOP Favorites Gather; Interview with Rep. Mac Thornberry; Christian Hostages
Aired February 26, 2015 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 9:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
He's one of the world's most wanted terrorists, appearing in videos with his identity hidden behind a scarf. His distinct British accent was always clear. And now, we're learning the identity of the man called Jihadi John. He's apparently the man seen beheading two American ISIS hostages and taunting a Japanese hostage. We now know his name is Mohammed Emwazi. He's from west London. Was born in Kuwait.
Our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson is joining us now, live, from London. What else do we know about Emwazi, Nic, and the group that helped reveal his identity?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we know about him now is that he was university educated here in London. Studied computer technology. Graduated in 2009. And then, according to the organization that, if you will, helped verify who he was, this is an organization called CAGE, they say that he came to them to complain to them about abuses at the hands of the British intelligence services.
He says, Emwazi said to this group, CAGE, that in 2009, he went to Tanzania as part of a graduation present from his parents to go on a safari. But he said he was arrested at the airport there. Sent back to Britain. Questioned by British intelligence agents on numerous occasions. And this organization, CAGE, puts forward this narrative, therefore, that Emwazi became radicalized because of the way that he was treated by the British intelligence services.
They say that the man that went on to do all this beheading, they say that he bears no resemblance to Emwazi, the Emwazi they knew. They knew him as a kind of nice person. What we don't know about, Wolf, and this is very important, is why Emwazi, in the first place, got on the radar of the British intelligence services.
Before 2009, before this CAGE organization picks up the narrative, and certainly here to the metropolitan police in London, they will have that sort of information. But they are refusing, at this time, to confirm the identity of Jihadi John. Why? Because they say life is still at stake here, that they have an ongoing terror investigation. And we're hearing that from the British foreign office as well. So, officially, in Britain, no confirmation of who he is -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Because this profile of Emwazi comes from a well-to-do background, obviously intelligent, goes to a major university. Studies, what, computer sciences. And, all of a sudden, he decides to become inspired, if you will, to become a radical jihadist. Goes off to Africa and eventually winds up in Syria. Then, we see him on videotape beheading American journalists, if you will. It's very strange how this transition occurred. What else are you learning, Nic?
ROBERTSON: Well, according to the CAGE organization, they say that Emwazi became frustrated with the British intelligence officials here because they were trying to recruit him into the intelligence agency. They say that he went to live in Kuwait for about eight months where he had a computer job in 2010. Came back at the behest of his parents. They say that, ultimately, his father even suggested that he change his name and he tried to go back to Kuwait. And it was only then, according to this group, that he went to Syria.
And three days later, this group says that his parents informed the police that he had gone missing. Four months later, the police told the family he had, in fact, been in -- been in Syria for some time. Of course, in these situations, often, the families are last to know. This CAGE organization may well have been misled by this young man creating the impression that he was being unfairly picked upon. However, this CAGE organization has represented former Guantanamo Bay detainees. They have represented the interests of young men and women from this country who've gone off to Turkey to sort of help refugees there.
But the narrative they're creating is not just about Emwazi. They're saying that this is happening to a lot of young people pressured by the intelligence services here. This is a narrative that a lot of people here would really call into question the way they presented it.
And the key information, again, and I come back to this, Wolf, because it's most important. This CAGE organization, despite having a whole panoply of information about Emwazi, offer nothing, nothing about what he was doing really before 2009, to attract the attention of the intelligence officials in Britain. MI5 would not have sought him out to interview him, reasonable logic says, unless there was a substantial reason. And we're really yet to learn about that -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Oh, we're going to get more on this guy. That's coming up. Thanks very much. Nic Robertson in London.
Other important news, they came to the United States legally. But now, three men, two of them legal, permanent residents of the United States, are accused of plotting against the country that took them in. This is a photo CNN has just received of one of the men named Abror Habibov. He was arrested in Jacksonville, Florida. He was in the United States on an expired Visa. The other two men were arrested in New York City. Among the federal charges, the men are accused of attempting to join ISIS. ISIS' fostering plans to kill the president of the United States and shoot law enforcement officers, local police, including FBI agents.
Joining us now to talk about more of this is CNN's Will Ripley. He's joining us from Brooklyn. Will, two of the men were just about to leave the country when they were caught. One of them was about to board a flight at JFK International Airport in New York for Turkey, hoping to then sneak across the border into Syria. What else do we know?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we know that 19-year-old suspect paid $571 for that ticket because that's all he could afford. You can see behind me the apartment building where he lived. A pretty modest apartment building in a working class, very diverse neighborhood. The Coney Island neighborhood here in Brooklyn. Which raises questions, Wolf, about whether or not this young man, both of them actually, had the means to conduct activities like this. It's doubtful, according to law enforcement sources.
We also know the 24-year-old, he was arrested at his home also in this neighborhood. He worked at a nearby Euro shop. He was a delivery driver. And like we hear a lot about these want-to-be jihadists, Wolf, they blended in when they were seen by other community members. But it was their online language where the warning signals, you know, that got the attention of the FBI.
BLITZER: Because they were -- there was online mentions on some cazik (ph) Web sites, if you will. Basically, they were pretty blunt. They were talking about potentially killing the president of the United States. And that, obviously, got the attention of U.S. law enforcement authorities last summer. They've been watched ever since, right?
RIPLEY: That's absolutely right. The FBI actually paid a visit. They realized that -- at least at that point, that these young men didn't pose an immediate threat because of the fact they didn't have the means to conduct the type of activities they were talking about online.
But the game changed a bit when you brought in the addition of this other character, the mall kiosk owner who was arrested down in Florida. The 30 year old who we are also learning as recently as the spring of 2013 was a part-time student at the New York City College of Technology, CUNY. It's believed that, perhaps, he was doing that to somehow extend his visa. We know he overstayed his visa and is accused, now, of giving these young men money, trying to encourage them to either go to Syria and fight for ISIS or conduct brutal acts of violence right here in this -- in this Brooklyn neighborhood. Of course, very unsettling, Wolf, for the people who live here.
BLITZER: It certainly is. Will Ripley in Brooklyn for us. Thank you.
As you can see, a lot of developments related to ISIS terror today. With us to talk about this a little bit more and including the identity of Jihadi John is Mac Thornberry. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us. What can you tell us about this guy Jihadi John, now identified as Mohammed Emwazi?
REP. WILLIAM THORNBERRY (R), TEXAS, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I don't have information other than what your reports indicate. What strikes me is that he is one person that, apparently, there is some more information about. But there are approximately 20,000 of them, foreign fighters, that have gone to Iraq and Syria to join ISIS. So, I think it's interesting as we dig down a little more on him or of the guys that were arrested in New York. But we need to keep the scale of the problem in mind, that this is far bigger and far more dangerous, I think, than the administration or a lot of folks, want us to us to believe.
BLITZER: Based on what you know, Mr. Chairman, Mohammed Emwazi, we've seen him on videotape with the knife actually beheading Americans and others. Obviously, he's a very dangerous terrorist out there. But these three guys arrested, two of them in New York, one of them in Florida, are they serious terrorists or just a bunch of losers?
THORNBERRY: Well -- and how far are you willing to let it go before you know? And that is the challenge. Here's what I think is so crucial is that intelligence information is the key. And I worry that we have -- through leaks and voluntarily tying our own hands, have less information about terrorist threats, whether they are coming from Al Qaeda, ISIS or home grown varieties. We have less information now than we had just five years ago. And yet, as we've just been talking, this threat is expanding and growing in many ways. And so, that is one of the key issues, I think, that we need to be careful about tying our own hands any further in the collecting of information that can help us distinguish the losers from the serious terrorists.
BLITZER: I know there have been major U.S. air strikes over Iraq and Syria, coalition-led air strikes. And there are these reports out there now that the U.S. is searching for the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. Maybe they're also searching for this Jihadi John, as he's called, Mohammed Emwazi as we've now identified him. Do you know, and you're the chairman of the Armed Services Committee in the House, whether or not these air strikes are specifically targeting these kinds of ISIS leaders?
THORNBERRY: Well, if we have specific information about a leader, obviously they are targeted. But there are other targets as well. One of our big challenges, to go back to my previous point, is we have very limited intelligence on the ground to help us identify targets. And this whole controversy about, well, we can't have ground troops. The president even included that in the draft AUMF proposal that we just had a hearing on. But that limits our ability to gather information on the ground and target leaders, infrastructure, training camps and that sort of thing. And that's necessary to be effective.
BLITZER: I want you to listen to James Clapper. He's the director of national intelligence. He was testifying up on Capitol Hill today. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: When the final accounting is done, 2014 will have been the most lethal year for global terrorism in the 45 years such data has been compiled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All Right, he sounds pretty ominous. And it sounds like it's going from bad to worse. Your analysis.
THORNBERRY: No, I think he's right. By any objective measure of the statistics, there are more terrorist groups, more terrorist fighters, more terrorist attacks, more people who have died from terrorist attacks around the world in -- last year than there have been before. And the question is, are we going to be serious about coming up with a strategy to push back, not just against this organization or that organization, but against the whole movement. And that was a consistent theme in the hearing we just had on the AUMF that it's not just the legal authority to take military action. You have to have a real strategy that will be effective against this movement. So far, we don't have one.
BLITZER: AUMF is the use of -- the Authorization for the Use of Military Force that's now under consideration in the United States Congress. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.
THORNBERRY: Yes, sir. Thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Mac Thornberry is the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.
Still ahead, we're talking a closer look at the man now identified as Jihadi John, Mohammed Emwazi. How does identifying him help in the fight against ISIS and what does his profile tell us about ISIS recruitment tactics?
Plus, all of the 2016, at least almost all of them, the Republican presidential front runners, they're together in one place today here in Washington D.C. We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in the race for the White House. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: We're continuing to follow the latest developments on a terror story out of the U.K. We're learning now the identity of the man who had been known as "Jihadi John," seen on ISIS videos beheading American hostages. U.S. officials tell us his name is Mohammed Emwazi. He's from west London but was actually born in Kuwait. Our national security analyst Peter Bergen is joining us on the phone right now.
I know you've been doing a lot of work on this guy. What have you learned about him, Peter?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): Well, he sort of fits the profile of what we'd expect in a leader of ISIS. He's from a well off family background. He's got a background in computer programming. He is, you know, in his early 20s. This is pretty typical for somebody who would be a, you know, senior leader of a terrorist organization doing these kinds of things.
I mean you think about Mohamed Atta, the lead hijacker on 9/11 with a -- studying for his doctorate at a German university and there are many other examples. Even in this country, Major Nadal Hasan, who was an Army psychiatrist and, you know, and an Army major from a comfortable (ph) middle class family. So, you know, there's a kind of comforting idea that these people are sort of the dispossessed, and, in fact, they tend to be people who come from quite well off backgrounds, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, it's not as if he's somebody who is desperate, looking for a job. A university graduate in computer sciences, if you will. Came from a relatively well to do background. Some of - some of the people who knew him in London say he may have been radicalized at least in part because British police were after him, they were questioning him, and they apparently had been a little bit rough with him. And all of a sudden he decides to head off, join ISIS and become a beheader, if you will. What do you make of that - that sort of interpretation of his motivation?
BERGEN: I don't buy it at all, Wolf, because I think the police were on to him for a very good reason. He was already radicalized. And it looks like when he was going on a quote/unquote safari to Tanzania, he was actually trying to get to Somalia to join al Shabaab, the al Qaeda affiliate there. And then add to that that I've been talking to somebody who knows the families of the hostages that were taken by "Jihadi John" and they are saying that they -- he would often force the hostages to watch videos of al Shabaab, which I think is sort of quite telling.
So I don't buy that. I think police were onto him and the radicalization preceded his - proceeded the fact that they interrogated him.
BLITZER: Yes, I tend to agree with you as well.
All right, Peter, thanks very much.
Does the identity of "Jihadi John," as he's called, really change much of the strategy in the overall fight against ISIS. Let's get some more analysis. Joining us Sasha Havlicek. She's the founding CEO, director of the Institute for Strategic Dialogue in London. Also joining us from Colorado, Bob Baer, he's CNN security and intelligence analyst, a former CIA operative.
What do you make of this guy, Mohammed Emwazi, Bob?
BOB BAER, CNN SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Emwazi, I think he looks like he's twice exiled, Wolf, as we were talking about. Emwazi is not a Kuwaiti name. He's possibly African origin. Most of Kuwait can't fully integrate the family. They make some money. They moved to London. He was six years old. He's, you know, he would have a hard time immigrating, being assimilated entirely into British society. And I agree with Peter, he was radicalized by the conflict in Somalia,
tried to go there, join Shabaab, was picked up by the Tanzanian police, roughed up and the rest of it. And so he was looking for a conflict very early on.
Now, British authorities couldn't do much with him. They knew he'd been radicalized, but that's not enough to go to jail. And he makes his way to Syria and by then he's completely radicalized by 2012. I mean, I don't see any fault on British authorities here, letting, you know, this guy slipping away. You just can't - FBI, MI5, Scotland Yard, cannot arrest these people and detain them indefinitely if they haven't commit a violent act. So there's not much they could have done about it.
BLITZER: Sasha, you've studied this radicalization of these young people, including some women as well. What's your analysis, how this guy went from studying computer sciences at a major university in the U.K. and all of a sudden winds up beheading individuals on videotape on behalf of ISIS?
SASHA HAVLICEK, CEO, INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC DIALOGUE: I mean, as you heard from Peter, I think it's not an uncommon tale. I think the unmasking of this man is an important thing. He became iconic in ISIS supporting circles, as you know. His image has been shared much, much more broadly even than the image of Baghdadi, the leader of the movement. And it gives us a chance now to start to demystify the man and his motives. And I think we need to be doing that a little bit more.
I do think that this -- this phenomenon has, of course, highlighted a couple of major problems that we're facing. The fact is that we are seeing, of course, a whole range of individuals that have been on security service radars slipping through the net. We've seen that now, of course, with these girls that have gone off to Syria. We've seen that, to some extent, with the Paris attacks. It speaks to the - just the extent of the challenge but also the nature of the challenge, as we've just heard.
I think the other piece of this that's interesting is, it underscores the extent to which this -- this movement is entirely super national, entirely, if you like, un-rooted. This young man, born in Kuwait, growing up in the U.K., obsessed with al Shabaab, essentially people unconnected with the geopolitical context, the geopolitical grievances of the places that they're fighting for. And this, of course, being propagated and fueled by this Internet radicalization machinery that we're seeing of course ISIS taking on the charge with very effectively.
BLITZER: We're going to be learning a lot more about Mohammed Emwazi, "Jihadi John," in the coming days for sure. Sasha Havlicek, Bob Baer, guys, thank you very much.
Still ahead, more Christians in Syria, they are taken hostage by ISIS, and now there are new reports of ISIS destroying ancient artifacts in a Mosul museum. We're going live to northern Iraq for the latest on both of these horrific stories. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: ISIS is now even more dangerous than before. The violent group has seized more Christian hostages, taking over nearly a dozen of their villages in northeastern Syria over the past few days alone, that according to an activist. The extremist group is now holding more than 260 Christian hostages in Syria. Ben Wedeman is in Erbil, Iraq, in northern Iraq. He's watching what's going on.
Hundreds captures, thousands forced to flee. What's the latest on these Christian hostages, Ben?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The latest we've heard, Wolf, is that according to the Assyrian Human Rights Network, 262 people at this point are believed to have been kidnapped by ISIS since day before yesterday. Now, the original reports were between 70 and a hundred. Now, 262.
It's believed that many of them are women, children, and the elderly. We understand now that thousands of families have fled that area as ISIS has launched this onslaught. They've apparently taken 11 of these Assyrian Christian villages in the northeastern Syrian province of Hasik (ph). And of course the worry is that many of them may end up as slaves, others executed.
We had received reports yesterday that some of them were transported to the de facto capital of the -- of ISIS in Raqqa, in north central Syria, but clearly they -- it's very difficult to get information out of there. What is clear is that there are many of these Assyrian Christians now in a very dire situation.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Amid all of this, we're getting some upsetting new video. Video showing ISIS destroying valuable, meaningful items, historic artifacts. I'm going to show our viewers some of this video. But give us some context.
WEDEMAN: Yes, this was video that was posted on the Internet this afternoon. And what you see is -- first of all, there's a man who explains why they're doing it. He says that these artifacts, these idols, these statutes, that God has ordered them to be destroyed. And he says we must destroy them even if they're worth billions of dollars.
Then you see one statute after another on pedestals being smashed to the ground into pieces. Then you see other men with sledgehammers breaking them up. Then you see a man with a drill who is defacing one of the famous winged bulls of Nineveh. These date back to 700 B.C. So it looks like they're just going through the Museum of Mosul and ransacking it, destroying almost everything.
Now, we spoke to a source in Mosul today who says this video only tells part of this story. The other part is that many of the truly valuable items in that museum have already been sold through Turkish intermediaries onto the international antiquities black market. Wolf.
BLITZER: Very disturbing images indeed. And as you say, probably just the tip of the iceberg what's going on in Mosul, the second largest city in Iraq. Two million people live there, under the control of these ISIS terrorists. Shocking, shocking indeed. Thanks, Ben Wedeman. He's in northern Iraq. Be careful over there.
As concerns over terror grow, the debate in Congress over the funding of the Department of Homeland Security is intensifying with the clock ticking now. The House speaker, John Boehner, he was talking about - he was actually sending some kissing noises to reporters today. We're going to tell you what's going on.
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