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Two Police Officers Shot in Ferguson, Missouri; Protests Continue in Ferguson, Missouri; Report: U.N. Discusses Lifting Iran Sanctions

Aired March 13, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the identity of two Secret Service agents who drove onto White House property after a night of partying have been revealed. But why did it take days before the Secret Service director found out about this incident?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of questions about that.

Also, we're going to explore how a new report about U.N. sanctions against Iran could affect nuclear talks this weekend. We'll get to all of that. But first let's head back to Ferguson and Chris Cuomo. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the shooting of these two officers just brought everything into very sharp focus once again. It happened early Thursday morning, and it is now what this community is going to do to deal with the very two distinct ideas about what change means here. Let's get to CNN's Alina Machado first about the manhunt that's been going on here right now. Cops are really into this investigation. They believe they're getting close. What's the latest?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris. We know authorities have been chasing down a number of leads. And even though it's been more than 24 hours since those two officers were shot here, we haven't heard of any arrests, at least not yet. What we do know is that authorities have identified two people, two people of interest that they want to talk to. One of them they believe may be the shooter.

A few hours after the shooting police were here in the area talking to people and they went to a house that's just a few blocks away from here. We know they took in three people for questioning. Those people have since been released. They told CNN that they were asked about their whereabouts during the shooting. They were asked if they saw anything suspicious. They tell us they did not.

Now, we know that a $3,000 reward is being offered in this case thanks to two Missouri congressmen. They say they want to do everything they can to help police find the shooters. We also know there's been a change. The Ferguson police department will no longer be involved or in charge of the security detail here during protests. That responsibility is now being given to two other agencies, the St. Louis County Police Department as well as the Missouri State Highway Patrol, Chris. CUOMO: All right, Alina, thank you so much.

There were protests last night but they were smaller and more quiet. There was a vigil for the officers, and that was even smaller than the protests. So how will this community deal with what just happened to these officers, and then what is the way forward? Let's get to Ryan Young who's been working the streets for us on that angle. Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, a lot of people were talking about this, especially sings the video has been shown so widely. So they did have that visual and the clergy were calling for calm. We did see protesters take to the streets, a lot smaller of a crowd. They did block the traffic and there were officers around, but nothing like we saw the night before. You have to remember, the officers weren't even engaged with anybody when they were shot. The president was on "Jimmy Kimmel" and he called this act pretty cowardly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no excuse for criminal acts. And whoever fired those shots shouldn't detract from the issue. They're criminals. They need to be arrested. And then what we need to do is make sure like-minded, good-spirited people on both sides, law enforcement who have a terrifically tough job, and people who understandably don't want to be stopped and harassed just because of their race, that we're able to work together and come up with some good answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Now, Chris, we talked to a woman who said she was upset that this shooting happened because she believes it changed the conversation. She said she wanted the protests to change the area and now everyone is talking about obviously these two officers being shot. Attorney General Eric Holder had some strong words, calling the shooters or shooter "punks."

CUOMO: All right, Ryan, thank you very much. Some people say it's a distraction. Some people say it is actually part of the problem. There are two very different schools of thought, as different as those two DOJ reports, one condemning the police department, the other saying that Officer Darren Wilson probably justified in what he did and that's why they're not prosecuting.

So let's have that debate the best way we can. We have Missouri state senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal. Part of her district includes Ferguson. She has been a presence here. And Jeff Roorda, he is with the St. Louis Police Officers Association. Now, you two had your conversation, you had your relationship. Yesterday it came a little bit to a head. I want to remind where we were yesterday so we can use that as a starting point and not a point of repetition. Let's remember what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ROORDA, ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION: They shouldn't have been. They were a part of this just like you were.

MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL, (D) MISSOURI STATE SENATOR: They were not. In fact --

ROORDA: They shouldn't be surprised. You're pouring kerosene on this fire.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Roorda, hold on. Hold on.

ROORDA: You've been there aiding and abetting the agitators.

CAMEROTA: Senator?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: No. For you to charge that, that is one of the reasons you are not elected today, sir. And you know what, and you deserve that statement, too.

ROORDA: Are you calling me a racist, senator?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes, absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Senator --

ROORDA: I represent St. Louis County police officers and one of my friends of 20 years was shot last night, so don't tell me who I represent.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: You absolutely do not --

ROORDA: Don't tell me who I represent.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: You're not a police officer today. The reason why you're not a police officer today is because you lied on a report.

And they deserve to be killed for that? You do not deserve to be killed for walking down the street.

ROORDA: No, he deserves to be -- he got killed because --

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: He deserves to be killed?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, so we know the emotion is obvious. And I know that you two know that this debate isn't about you as people. It's about the perspectives that you bring to it. So let's have the conversation that needs to be had.

Senator, I'll start with you. This situation with these officers being shot. many are saying this is a distraction. We don't want it to distract us from the main discussion we need to have, but isn't it part of that discussion? Isn't it part about the risk that is present for officers in this community? Doesn't that have to be addressed as well?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Absolutely. Police officers every single day put their lives on the line. And the incident that occurred a couple of days ago should not have happened and it is a distraction and it is a part of this -- the discussion.

But what we have to do is focus on the bigger picture here. How do we create a community where we are building trust consistently? One of the things that I am doing right now is working with my constituents in trying to figure out who acted in this very cowardly way because we have to build the trust in the community and build friendships among police departments throughout St. Louis.

CUOMO: Mr. Roorda, I know it was personal for you because you knew one of the men who were injured here.

ROORDA: Right.

CUOMO: And I'm sorry for you and for your friend. But you also have to look at what is driving a lot of the emotion here, and that is that damning report from the DOJ that basically in the minds of many here justifies what they say they've been saying for many years. What do you believe should be the ownership of that report by the law enforcement community of what seems to be a very clear culture of biased policing?

ROORDA: Well, first of all, nothing in that report or anywhere else justifies deadly violence aimed at police. But to Senator Chappelle- Nadal's point, the protesters that have peaceful intentions in these crowds, their voices can't be heard over gunfire. So we need to figure out a way where we can have this local dialogue, really this national dialogue about how we build trust between law enforcement and the communities they police. And the terrible tragedy that we saw here 36 hours ago doesn't move that forward.

CUOMO: And yet the protests, yesterday you seemed to feel that, hey, these protests are part of the problem, that's why these officers got shot. You do understand that there's an absolute right to this and you need to have the protests, you need to have the voices out there, otherwise the anger's not going to find anything of a positive aim for the anger, then we know what happens. It winds up being expressed in negative ways?

ROORDA: Absolutely. There is an absolute right for the protesters to have their voice heard. My reluctance is these after-hour protests that are something very different from that. That's when the violence is taking place. That's when not only the 1,600 cops that I represent are put in harm's way, but so are the peaceful protesters. Remember those folks in the crowd the other night had bullets whizzing over their heads as these officers were being shot. It's a dangerous, volatile environment, and I think these after-hours protests really detract from the way forward more than they do contribute to it.

CUOMO: Well, a lot of a part of the way forward, senator, is going to be acceptance. The police have to accept what's in that DOJ report about them. You heard how Jeff, his immediate reaction was, well, it doesn't justify violence. But you have to deal with the culture of police as well. And on the other side, you don't hear a lot of people in the protests

especially saying, hey, that Darren Wilson, looks like he was justified according to the DOJ. We should acknowledge that as well as part of what the truth of the situation is. Why not?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, you know, here's the fact. People have been injured not only for six months or a year but literally for decades now. And the truth is out. The Department of Justice has validated what people have been saying for a very long time.

But what I want to focus on right now, while people are talking about protests and when you protest, the positive things that happened last night was there was a forum in my district. There are people who came together who are running for elected office in April. What this situation has brought about, people are now engaged in the process. And no longer are we going to have city councils that are a majority white in a community that is a majority black community.

And so while some people were out on the streets last night, some with good intentions, what we have to focus on is how we are going to civically engage ourselves and our community and be civically responsible moving forward. And part of that is by going to town hall meetings and hearing from people what they have to say and what their visions are for the future. And so that is what I'm focusing on. I want to maintain the right of individuals to protest peacefully at any time of day. The constitution does not say you can protest from 7:00 to 5:00 in the morning.

Do you understand that point, Jeff?

ROORDA: I do, and you have to balance civil rights against public safety. That is law enforcement's responsibility 24/7.

Just to sort of give an optimistic point. You know, as I was leaving the protests last night, a gentleman sort of marched over to me with a very aggressive posture and tone and, you know, I immediately sort of joked with him and kind of put his defenses down. Then we had a very nice, civil conversation for 20 minutes about his perspective as a young black man living in that area and my perspective as a guy who represents cops and as a former cop. And it was refreshing and really the first civil, insightful conversation I could have with somebody out there. I started to leave and got in my car, and I got out and handed the man my card and said let's talk some more. So maybe that's a glimmer of optimism for the future.

CUOMO: Conversations have to be had. I want to re-ask each of you the question I asked because neither of you answered it. Jeff, when you look at the DOJ report about the culture of policing here, that's something that has to be owned by whoever does the policing here, that there was a culture of bias. Are you willing to embrace that report and say, look, the damage is there, we have to deal with it now?

ROORDA: That report is very damning. Those e-mails are reprehensible. But let's credit the mayor for immediately taking disciplinary action as soon as he became aware of those e-mails. The court profiteering is disturbing, but it's a problem in black and white communities here in Missouri.

CUOMO: Right. But it is a problem here in Ferguson. It's disproportionately black. The report said it was at least in part biased in its motivation, so it's something that has to be owned.

Similarly, senator, have you to own the part of the report from the DOJ, you can't pick and choose. They also said that Darren Wilson, based on the witnesses, based on the evidence, it's not just that they can't prosecute because of the standard being too high, that they say there was credibility to his account. Isn't that something that has to be owned to have honest conversation?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Absolutely, and that's why we are trying to change some of the laws that are in Missouri right now. We are out of compliance with the U.S. Supreme Court when it comes to Tennessee versus Garner which properly defines what deadly force is. And Missouri is totally out of its position with the U.S. Supreme Court.

But more importantly, I think what we should be focusing on and what we should be taking ownership of on my side as we debate this, we need to make sure that protesters understand the law. We need to make sure that they have a pathway that is peaceful so that we have outcomes that are productive and create an environment where we can start building those bridges and trust.

We do have a responsibility, and for us not to be educated on what our civil rights are, our constitutional rights are is not going to be accepted. And that's why I'm calling on all protesters to know the law, know where we need to be and work with your legislators so that we can move forward in a productive manner.

CUOMO: Well, and hopefully what we saw an improvement in the conversation between you two today on these important issues will be reflected in the community overall. Thanks to both of you for being on NEW DAY as always. Alisyn?

ROORDA: Thanks, Chris.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Thank you, Chris.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris, we'll get back to Ferguson shortly. But it turns out that neither President Obama nor Secret Service Director Joseph Clancy knew about the latest incident involving the Secret Service until days after it happened. Two agents suspected of driving after drinking at a party, purportedly disrupting an active bomb investigation outside of the White House. One of the agents said to be the number two man on the president's personal protective detail, the other a senior supervisor in the Washington field office.

PEREIRA: A new unverified audio message from an ISIS spokesman says the terror group accepts Boko Haram's pledge of allegiance. This development comes as both groups are dealt setbacks on the battlefield. ISIS militants fighting Iraqi forces to recapture Tikrit. And while Boko Haram has killed thousands in its bid to impose Islamist rule in Nigeria and neighboring countries, military forces have driven them from dozens of towns. CAMEROTA: Now an out of this world mission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Two, one, zero -- and lift off of the Atlas 5 with MMS, using magnetic --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: The unmanned Atlas 5 rocket blasted off last night from Cape Canaveral, Florida. It's carrying NASA satellites to study magnetic reconnection. That causes things like solar flares. It makes the sky turn different colors.

PEREIRA: You're so informed.

CAMEROTA: I knew I'd get your attention with magnetic reconnection.

PEREIRA: Cool. Thank you for that.

CAMEROTA: You're welcome.

All right. So, we will have much more from Chris. He is on the ground in Ferguson.

But, first, a move to lift U.N. sanctions against Iran may make it harder for Capitol Hill to undo any nuclear deal. Did that open letter by 47 Republican senators somehow backfire?

PEREIRA: Really compelling day in court. The man who got hijacked by the Boston marathon bombers, he takes the stand. What he says about that split-second decision he made to escape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: New report overnight saying members of the U.N. Security Council are quietly talking about repealing U.N. sanctions against Iran as part of the nuclear deal. That will not make Congress happy.

Let's bring in Michael Smerconish. He's the host of CNN's "SMERCONISH". He's also a CNN political commentator.

Hi, Michael. Good seeing you.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning to you both.

CAMEROTA: So, the Republicans at least in Congress want more sanctions, not fewer.

SMERCONISH: You know, both sides of this transaction, I mean the Iranians and the United States, and, of course, it's not just the United States. There are several nations that are negotiating with them, have conservative factions that they need to appease and those conservative factions whether it's the ayatollah and the mullahs on the Iranian side, or it's the GOP Congress and Senate on this side, both are raising a fuss.

Maybe that means a deal is closer at hand. I can remember so many occasions practicing law where we'd go in to resolve the case with the judge and he'd bang heads and come out and say, well, neither side is happy. We must have a transaction here. And this is what it reminds me of.

PEREIRA: Well, you know, it's interesting, because I think about this 47 senators, writing this letter, sort of doing an end run around the president, I think what does that do in terms of optics, right? The Americans at the table in these negotiations, a key player in this conversation, does that weaken our stance? Does it make it look like, y'all have a mess back home that you can't work out.

SMERCONISH: Well, we do, don't we?

I think what it means is that the dysfunction that has plagued domestic politics has now jumped into the foreign policy realm.

PEREIRA: Is it going to undermine the deal?

SMERCONISH: I don't know if it undermines this deal. You know, I can actually, Michaela, make an argument that it can benefit the transaction.

PEREIRA: Interesting.

SMERCONISH: Well, because I think it puts Secretary Kerry in a position at the negotiating table, where he says to the Iranians, look what I'm dealing with, you know, I'm never going to be able to get them to buy into this long term. You need to make more concessions.

I would love to think that that was what the Republican true mindset that they wanted to benefit the negotiation of this deal. I think instead, they were probably looking to put a thumb in the eye of the president.

CAMEROTA: However, there are issues with what the Republicans have with what they've heard about this deal, namely, they want an oversight agency like the IAEA going in to see what Tehran is doing. They don't want it to sunset after 10 years. What's the point of a deal if they're going to have a weapon 10 years from now.

So, you might disagree with their tactics of sending an open letter to Iran, but can you dismiss the contents of what they're asking for?

SMERCONISH: No, I think they raise legitimate points -- I don't think they should be the ones to advance them or they should be advancing them in their advise and consent role to the president, not writing a direct letter to the Iranians.

CAMEROTA: But they say the president isn't listening to them. Republicans say they are not at the table.

SMERCONISH: The Republicans shouldn't be at the table because from a foreign policy perspective, I think we need to speak with one voice and that voice needs to be the administration and the State Department. If the Republicans are displeased with that approach, then, hey, we're two years away from an election and that's when they ought to make changes.

Look, here's where I think this ought to come out, full transparency. And if there is a sunset provision, at least I would say it's better if they've dialed back their Iranian nuclear capability than the status quo which is that uranium enrichment continues. I'd rather have them retrenched with transparency than do nothing.

PEREIRA: How likely is full transparency?

SMERCONISH: Well, can you trust them? You know, this puts them back in the same position we seem to have been in.

PEREIRA: Both sides are saying that, though, too.

SMERCONISH: Right.

PEREIRA: We heard Khamenei say that. That he's like, look, I don't know we can trust. They changed the game. They changed the tactics.

SMERCONISH: If the alternative is to launch a first strike against Iran, whether it's United States or the Israelis, I'd much rather pursue this to the nth degree and know that we made the effort.

CAMEROTA: We had uber negotiator Aaron David Miller on.

SMERCONISH: He's terrific.

CAMEROTA: He's terrific. We had him on last hour as you know. He's advised six secretaries of state. He's no stranger to tough negotiations. He says this is one of the toughest he's ever seen, one of the toughest at least, he's ever seen, because just what you said, all the different constituencies that each side is having to deal back at home, he gave it a 50-50 chance today.

What do you think is going to happen this weekend?

SMERCONISH: I yield to his judgment. He has far more expertise than I. I'll just -- to the point he makes about the ramifications of this, it's truly a game of dominoes where there's a consequence to every single move. And what's most interesting to me is that these negotiations are playing themselves out at a time when you have Iran taking on is, and to that extent has become, I hate to use the word "ally" or "partner", that probably makes it -- but is the enemy of my enemy really my friend in this case? I don't know. It's a confusing picture.

PEREIRA: You referenced it earlier about our domestic issues impeding potentially the deals overseas. Also I'm getting a little big here on Fridays. I think it must be your presence here. It makes me think about the context of the 2016 elections, that cycle. If we're already having this kind of end run around the president, this kind of dissension, divisiveness, what are we set for? SMERCONISH: Well, I worry about what this does for a Vladimir Putin

or dealing with the Chinese, because they're politically wise. They assess what's going on in the United States. If they think they can play us against ourselves -- you know, Michaela, it's like no one wants to have a domestic squabble. But you want to resolve your own domestic squabble. When an outsider comes, the appropriate response is you turn on the outsider. In this particular case, we're turning on ourselves.

PEREIRA: On ourselves.

SMERCONISH: I'd rather be turning on the Iranians than the Americans.

CAMEROTA: Michael Smerconish, great to have you on NEW DAY.

SMERCONISH: You, too, both. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Have a great weekend.

And remember to check out "SMERCONISH" Saturdays at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.

PEREIRA: He's a busy fella.

CAMEROTA: He really is. You can hear him on weekdays on Sirius XM also at 9:00 a.m.

You're pulling yourself --

PEREIRA: He sleeps standing up honestly.

All right. There has been really riveting testimony in the Boston bombing trial. The man the Tsarnaev brothers carjacked, he took the stand. The shocking things he had to say about the split-second decision he had to make. That's ahead.

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