Return to Transcripts main page

@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Lufthansa to Compensate Germanwings Victims' Families; New Sticking Point Emerges on Iran Nuclear Deal; Graphic Images in Boston Bombing Trial; Replacement for "The Daily Show's" Jon Stewart Announced. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired March 30, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:32:55] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The German prosecutor's office revealed that Germanwings pilot, Andreas Lubitz, was in psychotherapy in the past, several years ago, is what they note, before he got his license to fly. But the prosecutor insists there was no evidence so far to suggest the 27-year-old was suicidal or acting aggressively, in their words, before or around the time of last week's crash in the French Alps.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A spokesperson for Germanwings says victim's families will start receiving initial payments in the coming days. The airline's parent company, Lufthansa, says they've set aside $54,000 for each family. That's just for immediate expenses. There will be more to come. The question is, how much more?

Joining us to discuss, CNN aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo a former inspector general at the Department of Transportation. Mary has spent a lot of time representing the families of crash victim.

Thanks so much for being with us, Mary.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Thank you. Good to be with you.

BERMAN: There are a lot of issues involved with this when you talk about compensation to the family members. It seems one of the major issues has to do with how responsible the airline was. What their culpability for lack of a better word is in this. With everything we're finding out now about the investigation, that it was an employee of Germanwings that cashed the plane, how will that ultimately affect the kind of money we're talking about here?

SCHIAVO: Well, it won't affect the overall compensation because the families will be fully compensated. This airline, Germanwings, is ensured by alliance insurance company, they've already said they have the coverage and a very special treaty called the Montreal treaty will come into play here. What that means is this treaty will say that the airline is responsible for its employees' actions and for its passengers and basically this will be deemed -- and this is just a term of art, it's just a term in the law, it will be deemed an accident under Montreal, meaning it's something within the control of the airline and not a strange act of God that the airline could not control. And so once that comes into play, this treaty determines there are about four places where each person on board can file a suit. They will have to file a suit because the damages for each person are different. They're based on each individual circumstances, what country they're from, and where they can file suit. So it will be based upon what their earning's ability was, who they supported, how old they were, and those kinds of family situations. And, for example, the recovery for a single person will be very different than the recovery for, for example, a married person with a family. It will be based on each individual's circumstances.

[11:35:43] BOLDUAN: Mary, how do those conversations go? It seems impossible to think these families are ready to have a conversation like that right now. Many are still at the crash site but you've been in the room with them, you've advised them on how to go through this process. How does that work? Especially when you keep in mind that everything at this moment points to the fact that this person cashed the plane intentionally. This was not a mechanical error.

SCHIAVO: That's such a good question. Most of the time the families put it in the hands of their counsel, they find trusted counsel. And because it's technical, you have to have economists and experts that can calculate given certain contingencies in person's lives, what kind of recovery is appropriate and ordinarily the families turn that over to their councils to do that. There's a formula that you use and that doesn't happen right now. The initial payments are made and then you must file suit within two years. You don't have the option of waiting and negotiating forever, and their counsel will tell them that, you have to get it on file. Then, at some point, the courts will order a negotiation. And in France it's very special. In France, they run the invests a little bit differently and the French prosecutor and the BEA will be collecting all the evidence where in the United States once the NTSB has issued its findings of fact and recommendations, then the private lawyers go to court and do their own findings of fact, depositions, discovery and accident recreation. In France, the French government does it. It's different than other places in the world. So the families have to wait on that and they will be waiting a while. The BEA takes its time, as does the French prosecution. I've worked a couple cases there with them, and it's a long process.

BERMAN: It's got to be tough conversations for those families to be having now, if ever.

Mary Schiavo, appreciate you being with us. Thank you so much.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

BERMAN: Ahead AT THIS HOUR, negotiations down to the wire and a new sticking point emerges overnight in the talks between the U.S. and Iran on Iran's nuclear program. Will this mean that the plan will unravel before the deadline? That's next.

BOLDUAN: And jurors in tears as they're shown graphic photos of the injuries sustained by Boston bombing victims. All of this playing out in court. Why the prosecution says disturbing evidence is necessary as this case hits a pivotal moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:40:33] BOLDUAN: With just hours to go, really, to the deadline, still significant doubts a nuclear deal with Iran can happen and a major sticking point has popped up seemingly out of nowhere. Iranian officials suddenly rejecting a major component of the deal, saying now they're not willing to ship enriched uranium out of the country, specifically to Russia.

BERMAN: We're joined by CNN national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, in Washington. Global affairs correspondent Elise Labott is at the site of the talks in Switzerland.

Jim, I know you have spoken to Iranian officials because, to me, this came out of nowhere. For months and months and months it was assumed that this was part of something that was generally agreed, that they would be shipping their uranium out of that country. Now Iran, on the eve of the deadline, says no way.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I've spoken to an Iranian official twice in the last couple days, coming back with a firm statement that this material will not be shipped out of the country. The details of this agreement or proposed agreement have been secret for so long that, granted, outside observers have been making a lot of assumptions, perhaps many of them incorrect, and this may very well have been an incorrect assumption.

Now, there's still a lot of ways they could fudge this issue. Elise and I have been talking about this. There's the possibility, you know, why is this a concern? Iran has hundreds of pounds of enriched uranium. The concern is it's a step to get that to a level of uranium that could be used in weapons, so it's been a big issue. The idea had been to ship it to Russia, who converts it into nuclear fuel that cannot be used for weapons, but only used for nuclear power, et cetera. If you're keeping that in the country that will raise questions about what Iran could do secretly or how quickly it could move if it wanted to, to weaponization. Now, there are ways you could control that by keeping it under heavy monitoring, perhaps send it out of the country for reprocessing and storing it back in Iran. But, as you know, John and Kate, already a lot of skepticism about this deal in a number of areas in Washington, including among Democrats. This will certainly give ammunition to those who don't have confidence in this deal.

BOLDUAN: Jim, as you well know, a lot of this stuff gets technical but it has to because they're talking about technical parts of a potential nuclear program.

Elise, you're on site in Switzerland where these talks are happening. They are up against a deadline. That's why this is so important. From your vantage point, are the talks unraveling in light of this new development?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I don't think so, Kate. I think a lot of this is what people call posturing but what other people call hard bargaining, driving a hard bargain as we reach the end game of these talks. Now, Iran might have said that they would, might have said that they won't. Basically, U.S. officials are not concerned. They say they have a way of dealing with it. As Jim said, there are a couple of options in terms of shipping them out and sending it out. They could dilute it and make it beyond use. That doesn't seem to be one of the main sticking points. A few other sticking points are, what happens towards the end years of the deal? We're talking about a 15-year deal. After 10 years, Iran wants to resume so of its nuclear activity, particularly advanced nuclear research. The international community wants to put some curbs on that. They're also talking about the pace of lifting U.N. Security Council sanctions. Iran wants those lifted immediately but the international community says those Security Council sanctions must be phased out as Iran complies with the deal while they could have immediate relief from lifting the U.S. and European sanctions.

So as they come to the wire, everybody is hardening their positions. The Russian foreign minister came to the talks. He is leaving tonight. I think when he came and saw that the parties are not at the point where they can close the deal. And I think the insinuation was that he was saying, "Get your act together, I'll come back when there's a deal to be had." They'll be working to the wire. But there's an impression everybody wants that deal. This is, as they say with the banks, too big to fail, because everybody knows next month if there's no deal the elephant in the room is Congress imposing sanctions and everybody thinks this is the best chance to get a deal. The British foreign minister said Iran needs to start making those tough decisions and western diplomats telling me it's yes-or-no time for the Iranians.

Back to you guys.

[11:45:50] BOLDUAN: Jim Sciutto in Washington, Elise Labott on the scene for us in Switzerland. Thank you both very much for laying it out.

There's a lot to get into.

BERMAN: Time's running out, too.

I want to show you pictures right now from the greatest city on earth, Boston Massachusetts. Vice President Joseph Biden is standing in front of the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate. This is a brand new museum on the beautiful waterfront right there, and being dedicated today. President Obama will make a remark or some remarks here in just a few moments. Obviously, he was so close to the late Senator Ted Kennedy. $78 million facility opening today. We'll bring you the president's remarks coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: AT THIS HOUR, jurors in the Boston bombing trial are hearing really graphic details from medical examiners who performed autopsies on two of the victims. This is the prosecution's final attempt to convince the jury to convict suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on 30 counts before they rest their case, which is expected to happen today. 17 of those counts carry the death penalty.

BERMAN: 23-year-old grad student, Lindsey Liu, was standing by the finish line with her friend when they were hit by the second bomb. Eight-year-old Mark Richard passed away as his family had to make the awful choice to attend to his two other children hurt in the blast. The key today is the prosecution is resting. It's finishing its presentation today in all likelihood, which means the defense has some crucial decisions to make.

That is why we're speaking with CNN legal analyst, Mel Robbins, who joins us now.

Mel, as the prosecution wraps up, the question now is what will the defense do? Will they even present a case?

[11:50:15] MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, John, it's an excellent question. And good morning to both of you. If I were the defense counsel in this case, I don't think I would put on a case at this point because I'd want to get right to the penalty phase. Because they've already admitted in opening statements that he did it, that he's guilty. And so what do you gain by trying to put anything into evidence right now? I don't think you gain much of anything. And as you already said, 17 of the 30 counts carry the death penalty. And we're not talking about the death penalty yet. We're just merely talking about guilt. And they have proven guilt with an avalanche of evidence in this case.

BOLDUAN: And, Mel, a lot of the discussion at this point is, will they put Tsarnaev out? Will they bring him to the stand at any point, now or even in sentencing phase? The goal of the defense, as far as I understand it, is to try to avoid him getting the death penalty. Anything short of that I think would be a success in their mind. What do you weigh in the consideration of putting him out in how you reach your end goal?

ROBBINS: You know, it's a huge, huge decision for the defense. And if you think about it, on one hand, how do you get the jury to spare his life unless he actually gets on the stand and begs for his life or at least puts forward reasons why he didn't want to kill innocent people, but he became radicalized. Because, remember, in the sentencing phase, they're going to consider aggregating factors, which are the horrible stories, the wounds, the fact that they intentionally picked a location like the Boston Marathon where they could have massive damage and have a huge symbolic impact in terms of this terrorist act. But then you also look at the mitigating factors. And I would think it's going to be very hard, unless he gets on the stand, for these jurors to spare him -- Kate?

BERMAN: Mel, can you do that?

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Go ahead.

ROBBINS: If you have him on the stand -- if you put him on the stand and he's radicalized, he could get on the stand and actually make a really good case and make it very easy for them to say forget this guy, we're giving him the death penalty because he's showing zero remorse, he showed zero emotion during any of the testimony, and now he's getting on the stand, and he's not even giving me a reason to spare his life. So it could go either way. It depends upon the defendant. But I think we're all waiting to see what happens. This case has been, without a doubt, extraordinarily emotional and very well presented by the prosecution, from the harrowing injuries and the deaths to the planning to the GPS evidence to the tweets to the escape as they tried to get away after the bombing. Now we turn to the strategic phase, and it will be very interesting to see what the defense does to try to mitigate this case, you guys.

BERMAN: Again, it is all happening within the next few days.

Mel Robbins, thanks so much. We'll be back with you as soon as we find out more on this.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:57:00] BERMAN: All right. A fresh face will be the new host of "The Daily Show." I think that's the understatement of the century.

BOLDUAN: Right here.

It's John's last day. Just kidding.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: I am a grizzled "Daily Show" veteran compared to this guy.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: The show announced that comedian, Trevor Noah, is taking over the hosting job from Jon Stewart. Stewart is leaving the show after 16 years. Now, Noah is 31 years old. He's from South Africa. He appeared on the show as a guest a whopping three times.

BOLDUAN: That's amazing.

Joining us now -- it's just like, really -- longtime reporter for "The New York Times" media critic, Bill Carter, also the author of "The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy."

Bill, it's great to see you.

BILL CARTER, REPORTER & MEDIA CRITIC, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Nice to see you.

BOLDUAN: Bill, what do you make of this?

CARTER: I think it's the boldest move in the history of late-night television.

BOLDUAN: Seriously?

CARTER: Because this is a guy that the public really does not know at all. As you said, he's only been on three times. BERMAN: I had not heard of him before today.

CARTER: Yeah, 99.9 percent of the country has not heard of this guy, and that's bold in itself. But also, he is, you know, not an American. He's from a different continent.

(LAUGHTER)

And he's, you know, clearly a guy who hasn't been steeped in the culture the way you would think that's what you'd want in a host, that you'd want a guy who knows American politics, American culture, et cetera. And, you know, John Oliver came and did an in interesting thing, transitioning from being British, but he had several years of work on the show. So this is an interesting, very bold choice.

BERMAN: You bring up a good point. To make fun of us, do you need to get to know us? Watching us?

(LAUGHTER)

CARTER: You would think that would be helpful. Now, the whole world pays attention to our culture. So he's not out of it in that way. But I think it's an interesting choice based on that. And that's a show that takes on politics, takes on the media, takes on the culture.

BOLDUAN: Especially as we're going to be headed into the 2016 election. I mean, that is --

CARTER: The election coming up, exactly. So all of that is going to be really interesting to see a new face come on and take this on, and how he's accepted.

BOLDUAN: How heavy-handed do you think Jon Stewart had in this decision? I would guess a big one.

CARTER: Jon is very important. Jon is the most important person they've ever had on that network. So, of course. And you know, he's got a great and vested interest in this show. And he has the show afterwards that he still produced. I think he was very involved, yes.

BERMAN: We have about a minute left. Was he the first choice? Do you think this guy was their first choice?

CARTER: Clearly, their first choice probably would have been Oliver if he hadn't left or Stephen Colbert if he hadn't left. They would have been in place. But failing that, I think all the other names that I heard floated out there, I didn't take seriously.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Amy Poehler was a name.

CARTER: Tina Fey wasn't going to do it. Those are crazy names. So looking at the landscape, I think they decided, let's go fresh, let's bring in a really fresh guy. This is a really bright guy. This guy speaks multiple languages.

He's obviously a very sophisticated guy for his age. And all of that is really kind of exciting.

All of late night is changing dramatically. You have Fallon having changed "The Tonight Show" so much. You have James Corden going on CBS from England. All of this is a new generation and it's a new approach, and I think that's what they're going for.

BERMAN: Can't wait to see it.

BOLDUAN: Right along that vein.

BERMAN: Bill Carter, thank you so much.

CARTER: Good to be with you.

[12:00:02] BOLDUAN: Thank you.

That's it for us. Thanks for joining us AT THIS HOUR, you guys.

BERMAN: "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.