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Cockpit Transcript of Crashed Germanwings Plane Published; The Effects of Possible Mental Illnesses on Professionals Examined; Deadline for Iran Nuclear Deal One Day Away. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 30, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:00:33] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The captain is heard screaming "For God's sake, open the door!"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information has leaked from the cockpit voice recorder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perhaps the co-pilot was trying to set his captain up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would the co-pilot have been proscribed both an anti-psychotic and antidepressants?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talks for a nuclear pact between Iran and the west appear to be running on fumes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sanctions were working.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our policies in the Middle East are in free fall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George, George, George, George.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a yes or no question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.

CROWD: No hate in our state!

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ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, March 30, 8:00 in the east. And we are learning what the pilot in flight 9525 said as his copilot was sending the plane into the mountains. And here it is, "For God's sake, open the door." Copilot Andreas Lubitz ignores him as well as the frantic calls from air traffic controllers just as this plane full of innocent people headed into the French Alps at 400 miles an hour.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So at this moment we are waiting to hear from the German prosecutor about an update on the investigation. This as new video emerges of Andreas Lubitz flying this glider as a teenager. In other portions of this he seems smiling and excited. So why did this 27-year-old who loved to fly seize the controls and slam the plane into a mountain. NEW DAY has this story covered from every angle, and we begin with senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen live in Cologne, Germany. Fred.

FREDERICK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, of course everything is about these new transcripts that apparently have emerged. They were published in a German newspaper called "The Bild." And we can't independently verify their authenticity, but they do paint a chilling picture of what happened inside and outside that cockpit on the doomed flight. Let's have a look.

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PLEITGEN: Over the weekend disturbing new details from flight 9525's mangled cockpit voice recorder published by German newspaper "Bild."

BILL WALDOCK, PROFESSOR, EMBRY-RIDDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY: The CVR transcript was leaked way too early in the investigation.

PLEITGEN: The leaked transcript criticized as mere voyeurism by French investigators captures the steps 27-year-old Andreas Lubitz took to kill all 150 on board. Around 10:00 a.m., the plane takes off from Barcelona. The captain then tells Lubitz he didn't go to the bathroom in Barcelona and Lubitz replies, "Go any time." Around 10:27, the plane reaches 38,000 feet, cruising altitude. The captain asks Lubitz to prepare for the landing, and after the check, Lubitz repeats, "You can go now."

Then the captain is heard getting up and saying "You can take over." Lubitz, now alone with the door locked, reprograms the autopilot from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, sending the jetliner straight toward the Alps, dropping around 3,000 feet a minute. Air traffic control tries to contact the plane but receives no answer.

An alarm goes off inside the cockpit warning, sink rate. Then a loud bang on the door, the captain screaming "For God's sake, open the door!" Passengers are also heard screaming. Five minutes before impact, more bangs can be heard, metallic noises, as if someone was trying to knock the door down.

Ninety seconds later another alarm goes off, warning "terrain, pull up." The captain again screams, "Open the damn door!" Two minutes before impact the paper reports Lubitz can be heard breathing, the plane now only 13,000 feet from the ground. 10:40 a.m., investigators believe they hear the plane's right wing scrape a mountaintop, then screams once more from the 149 on board. Lubitz apparently stays silent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: So, again, it seems as though Lubitz might have been setting the stage for his captain to leave the cockpit very, very early on, as we saw there from excerpts from that transcript. Now, again, we can't independently verify its authenticity. However, the French investigating unit has come forward and criticized the leaking of this document. They say that they are in dismay that any sort of details could have come to light this early on in the investigation, Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Fred, our thanks.

Now, meanwhile we are learning more about Andreas Lubitz's history of mental illness. This as the German prosecutor releases new information about the investigation. I want to turn right to CNN's Pamela Brown who is in Dusseldorf, Germany. Pamela?

[08:05:10] PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, you can see a gaggle of reporters behind me. Any minute now we are expecting to hear from the Dusseldorf prosecutor about information on this investigation into Andreas Lubitz' background. So many unanswered questions about him and what could have led him to deliberately crash that plane. Last we heard from the prosecutor on Friday he had torn up doctors' notes inside of his trash bin even on the day that he crashed that plane. Authorities say he was trying to hide his illness from his employer.

But we still don't know exactly what that illness is. Publicly, officials won't say. But according to "Le Parisien" he had a history of mental health issues. In 2009 severe depression symptoms, and in 2010 he apparently took anti-psychotic medical injections, this according to sources close to the investigation telling this to "Le Parisien." CNN has not been able to independently confirm this.

Now, we have this new video that CNN has obtained from 2007, a couple years before he apparently developed the depression symptoms. And it shows him, as we see rights here, flying his plane, laughing, smiling. He was a teenager in this video. Apparently at one point he said, "Don't stress me out." Of course, a very different picture there from what we're learning about him, that he was seeking treatment, psychological treatment, and we happy to learn more any minute from the prosecutor, again, any minute now. Back to you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, we know you'll be monitoring that for us and bringing any headlines, Pamela. Thanks for that.

The task of collecting human remains and debris at the crash site continues this morning. CNN's Karl Penhaul spoke with relatives of one of the victims. Karly, tell us what they are sharing with you.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, of course, it's very important that we do analyze the nature in which these victims died, but it's equally important that we remember the manner in which they lived. And by the hour, relatives of the dead are coming here to the memorial site, about two-and-a-half miles as the crow flies from the crash site. And I've had an opportunity to speak to Mahshid Eslami. Her whose brother, an Iranian sports journalist, died on that flight, and this is what she had to tell me about big brother.

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MAHSHID ESLAMI, SISTER OF CRASH VICTIM: He said if someone killed in the flight crash it would be OK because if for one minute and it's gone, and you are in this sky and your soul would go. And he had spent eight minutes --

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PENHAUL: Now, she, like many of the other relatives are desperate to get as close as possible to the crash site. They want to find out what it's like there. I hiked up there a couple days ago and able to tell her, look, right now, spring flowers are going and the melted snow is filling crystal streams. And at that point she looked up to those snow-capped peaks behind me and said, "At least I can find some comfort. Now, I believe my brother is king of the Alps." Back to you Chris.

CUOMO: Carl, that's a beautiful telling of that story. Thank you for making the effort to help her.

All right, let's try and unpack what matters here now in this investigation. We have CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien. We have CNN aviation Mary Schiavo, she's also a former inspector general of the Department of Transportation, and CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Thanks to all three of you. Mary, I start with you. You've done these investigations, information leaks out. In this particular situation and the need to understand why this happened and what was ignored or avoided in this treatment, are you bothered by the leaks?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I'm always bothered by leaks, but they happen in almost every investigation. I'd like to say this is rare but it's not. I thought that the investigation chief of the BEA when he gave his press conference last week was quite forthcoming. I mean, if anything the BEA has already told us this but told us this more abstractly. And I guess the good thing is just the transcript has leaked out. At some point the actual recording, the actual voices will be used, and it can be used in court although there's lots of precautions that you have to take and they're secured. But I've seen this a lot, and it's not unusual. It happens in the U.S., too.

CUOMO: We often depend on them. And I ask this as a loaded question because it was, I'm not worried about this leak, because we need to know more. And Sanjay, I come to you on this level. People are treating mental illness and any type of depression this man may have had as if it were in a fever, comes in a flash and goes away. Can you please help us understand better how depression works and different factors in your life can combine to bring you into a descent into this type of madness?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, what we're talking about here is probably not simple depression, to your point, Chris. We don't know. We're sort of looking at the medications, some of which are pretty powerful medications. If it is true he took these as long as five years ago, he was taking a medication as an injection that is typically used for agitation associated with psychosis.

[08:10:17] Now, you know, mental illness can be a little bit confusing in terms of some of the diagnoses and criteria can overlap one over the other. You can start with depression, if not adequately treated, you can develop what's known as a psychotic depression, which means that in addition to depression you might start to have symptoms of psychosis, hallucinations, delusions, things like that. It sounds like one of medications. Again, if he received this medication around age 22 or 23, he may have been having some of those symptoms at that time.

Depression can be treated, sometimes you have an episode, it gets treated, and you don't really deal with it much after that. With schizophrenia or psychosis associate with that it's more of a life- long thing. Was he continuing to get treated over the last five years would be a very important question, Chris.

CUOMO: And it's also proof, Sanjay, something you understand very well and the rest of us are learning more and more in our culture, which is even if you have psychosis level depression, it's not like you're walking with welts on your face. And, Miles, that takes us to the point of is it time to change, at least for the U.S., how we address the mental illness and the monitoring and the openness and the need for information with people who have such sensitive positions where others' lives are in their hands like pilots, is it time for a change?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Absolutely, Chris. There's no question about it. The system was built on the honor system, on trust between the pilots in management, on trust between pilots to report each other when they're in difficulty. And the system is frayed at the edges because of cost cutting, because of management forcing pilots to give back wages, because of a general atmosphere of acrimony between both part parties. It inhibits that layer of trust.

And so what you have to do in those cases is either come together somehow, which I don't think is likely given the environment in the airline world as it is and the difficulties that there are, or you have to clamp down and you have to start reviewing psychology well- being along with physical call health every six months as every pilot goes through.

CUOMO: Mary, what is the pushback going to be? You're a lawyer, you understand the investigative side and the legal side.

SCHIAVO: Yes. The pushback is going to be the FAA's very own language. In the medical reporting form, which Miles has seen, anybody with a pilot's license has seen, because you have to go in and you have to check off various boxes. And there is an infamous item 47. And the instructions to the medical examiner from the FAA say we don't want to go collecting a lot of psychological or psychiatric information, so you just ask them if they check the box and look at them and see if they can remember events. Nowhere is there a blood test in any exam if you're taking psychiatric drugs. I think that would be an initial way to put more onus on the airlines, saying you're responsible for the health and well-being of not only your pilots but passengers. It's your duty to find out and check.

CUOMO: Sanjay, we're making this about pilots because of this specific instance, but we know it goes way beyond it in our culture. You know very well as I know Republican out of Pennsylvania Tim Murphy, he's trying to get this bill on the floor to vote on it to allow families to have more leeway to share information and get information about their loved ones who seem to be suffering but not taking it seriously enough. Do you think it's going to happen?

GUPTA: The problem is more stigma, I think, than policy, Chris. And I think that the idea that even if you try and legislate some of these things, the stigma still exists. And that stigma leading to the possibility people won't seek treatment is a real concern.

I do want to make this point and I think it's important not to just clump all mental illness together. Depression can be treated. And the likelihood of someone who is depressed carrying out an act like this is very remote. I've never heard of such a thing.

With psychosis or schizophrenia, which oftentimes can become really noticeable in someone's early 20s, for example, he may have been 22 or 23 when he received this injection, that is a different mental illness. That is one that if someone is having delusions and hallucinations, the idea that while he may have been training to be a pilot he had an episode like this that required a very, very, powerful medication to treat it and he still was able to go on and get his pilot's license and fly that plane is a pretty remarkable thing. I don't know exactly how you would counter that, but if he was receiving a medication like that and also flying a plane, someone should have known that. I don't know how that could have completely escaped everybody. It's not the job of the crew or of the other pilot there. They're not mental health professionals. They could not have necessarily noticed the clues, but there must have been clues before this.

CUOMO: It's not about demonizing the mentally ill, you are absolutely right, Sanjay. It is about getting help to those who need it with those around them who may know more than they do at a particular point in time.

[08:15:00] Mary, Miles, Sanjay, thank you so much for helping do this.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. One day remains to reach a nuclear agreement with Iran, but several hurdles still exist. Three main sticking points said to be in the way.

For more, let's bring in CNN global foreign affairs correspondent Elise Labott. She's live for us from Switzerland.

Tell us what we know of the sticking points, Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, I just met with a senior diplomat here at the talks telling me, those -- they're blocked on those three points. One is what happens in the end years of the deal? Now, we're talking

about a 15-year deal. Iran after 10 years wants to basically be able to do whatever it wants, including advance nuclear research. International community wants to keep a lot of restrictions in those end years of the deal.

Also, United Nations Security Council sanctions. Iran wants them lifted on day one. International community says Iran can see some economic benefits but those U.N. sanctions are a little bit more complicated and that's going to take some time.

And lastly, we're talking about a snap-back of sanctions if Iran doesn't -- if Iran violates the deal. International community wants to have a mechanism that if Iran does not comply, those sanctions get re-imposed.

Now, the ministers are here. There's another kind of sticking point that came up this morning last night's foreign minister of Iran's deputy said that Iran would not ship out its stockpile of uranium. This is something in terms of the breakout time that Iran would be able to geld of a nuclear weapon that they would have and thought Iran would ship it out to Russia and that would be part of the deal. Now, Iran saying it would not.

U.S. officials trying to smooth this over, saying there are a lot of scientific ways they can deal with this. But, certainly, it's just another thing the U.S. administration will have to explain to Congress and the Israelis that Iran really seems to be getting everything it wants from the deal, for a weak party coming to the talks they do seem to be dictating the terms. It's far from clear whether there will be a deal by the Tuesday deadline -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Boy, that deadline sure is looming.

All right, Elise. Thanks so much for that update. We'll continue to watch it here at CNN.

Meanwhile, overnight, Saudi-led Arab coalition warplanes relentlessly pounding Houthi military post and weapons depots in Yemen. The conflict could escalate, with a possible ground incursion possibly within days. It follows the formation of a joint Arab force, with countries trying to stop Iran's influence in the region.

CUOMO: We are anxiously awaiting word on whether the Boston bomber will testify. The defense is expected to start its case after prosecution rest. There will be more testimony for medical examiners attempted first. Remember, prosecutors are trying to persuade this jury to impose the death penalty. The defense presentation to stop that is expected to last two or three days. We'll stay on it.

CAMEROTA: OK. This just in: "The Daily Show" naming a replacement for Jon Stewart. "The New York Times" reports Trevor Noah, a South African comedian, will assume the role. The 31-year-old made his debut in December as a contributor on the show. He's only had three appearances so far. An official announcement expected today.

PEREIRA: Remember when Jon Stewart joined "The Daily Show," nobody knew who he was either.

CAMEROTA: Is that right? Was he unknown then?

PEREIRA: I don't think as he was as known. Clearly not as known as he is now. He went on to lead the show now his turn.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

PEREIRA: Speaks six languages. How about that?

CUOMO: Who does?

PEREIRA: Trevor.

CUOMO: Trevor Noah?

I never heard of him. But that's an interesting point, who will he be going forward. Sometimes you replace an icon like this, I've had my differences with Mr. Stewart, that's what he is, maybe you go a different direction.

CAMEROTA: Make it a serious show. Not funny at all.

CUOMO: Let this person own it in terms of what they bring to the table, not try to be Jon Stewart.

CAMEROTA: It will be interesting.

All right. You just heard Elise Labott reports some of what stands in this way of a nuclear deal with Iran. Our Fareed Zakaria will be here with his thoughts and predictions.

CUOMO: And Indiana's governor refused to answer simple questions from George Stephanopoulos, but he's responding now to the backlash. This law, is it about religious freedom? Is it about denying people freedoms?

But why are these laws popping up so often? We discuss.

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[08:22:53] CAMEROTA: Overnight, Iranian officials throw a wrench into nuclear negotiations according to "The New York Times." Still, Secretary of State Kerry remains in Switzerland in a final push to secure a deal. Will it happen?

Let's bring in CNN's Fareed Zakaria. He's host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS", and author of a new book called, "In Defense of a Liberal Education."

We will get to that book and your quaint premise shortly. We can't wait to talk about that.

But, first, let's talk about the Iran negotiations. It has been so fascinating to be on the sidelines and to watch this painstaking process. Secretary Kerry has really been earning his money. Where do you think we are today, one day away from the deadline?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": It seems tough to imagine that they're going to be able to meet the deadline. It seems like there's going to be an extension. Josh Earnest yesterday I think kind of put the pressure on the Iranians, said all these decisions can be made in two days.

But that's what you're doing when you're trying to negotiate. You're trying to force these decisions. It's quite possible there is an extension.

This is a big one, the issue that "The New York Times" raised, which is the Iranians have, I think it's about 8,000 kilos of low enriched uranium. You need a very small amount of highly enriched uranium to make a bomb.

So, there are two things that are going on in this deal. One is to reduce the number of centrifuges that used to enrich uranium, so the fewer you have, the longer it would take you to enrich. The second is, what do you do with this existing stockpile?

The old plan was ship to it Russia. The new plan, because Iranians are now balking at that, this is dilute this to make it so that you essentially can't go from low enriched to high enriched. Technically both are fine. The problem with the second one is really you have to really get it right and you have to seal it and you have do it in a way where even if one day the Iranians throw the inspectors out, they can't go back in and turn that low enriched to high enriched.

You know, so, you're trying to make sure whatever you do, you can't get from a civilian program to a weapons program fast.

[08:25:00] CUOMO: The naysayers will point to this and say, see, you can't trust these guys. Don't do this deal. Squeeze them with the sanctions, and force them into a position where they do what they need to do, you know, which is to give this up and let the inspections do.

What's the risk if you squeeze with sanctions again and leave the table?

ZAKARIA: We have history on this. Between 2003 and 2005, the Europeans almost did a deal with the Iranians. The Iranian offer at the time was to cap the centrifuges at 164. The French and the Bush administration played hard line. And they said, no, more pressure, we'll get a better deal.

The Iranians walked away. From 164 centrifuges they went to 20,000, under sanctions. Remember, Iran is an oil-rich country, even under sanctions, they make I think something in this range of $50 billion a year. A nuclear program isn't that expensive.

PEREIRA: Fareed, while we have you here, we were talking about Yemen a minute ago. I know you've written and talked about this extensively. Your contention is that this is just history repeating itself. Why is that? ZAKARIA: Well, if you look at Yemen, what happened was for 33 years

you had a dictator, Saleh, very classic, rules, secular, oh press all opposition including religious opposition, which becomes more extreme and more violent. Then, he's forced out in the Arab spring and we promised pluralism, democracy, inclusion, pretty soon we're back to another dictator.

And what happened is that opposition to Saleh has now grown and is now the opposition to the current government. So, in effect, it's the same old pattern we saw in Egypt. That we saw in Libya.

And we need to understand that part of the solution here is these governments are all illegitimate, they're all tyrannies. And until you make these governments more representative, you are going to have insurgencies against them.

CAMEROTA: OK. Back here at home, let's talk about your new book.

PEREIRA: Congratulations.

CAMEROTA: Congratulations.

ZAKARIA: Thank you, thank you.

CAMEROTA: It's called "In Defense of a Liberal Education." I believe you try to make the point if you love our history or if you love literature, you can still study that. You know that all sorts of people disagree nowadays and say you will make much more money if you go and get some sort of technical skills. Even President Obama has made that case.

Listen to this, Fareed.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I promise you folks can make a lot more potentially with skill manufacturing or the trades than they might with an art history degree.

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CAMEROTA: Is President Obama wrong?

ZAKARIA: Look, he is talking about, you know, people who might not actually end up going to a four year college and getting a bachelor's.

But take out history, if you will, if you do it seriously and rigorously and in almost any program, you have to learn two foreign languages and you have a very strong sense of visual arts and design. You have to travel around the world and learn how to deal with foreign cultures and societies. If I were to go to Apple and say, would that background be of any interest to you, Steve jobs said the DNA of Apple was not just technology but technology married to the liberal arts.

If you look at the data, yes, engineers start out a little bit ahead of liberal humanities type majors. It evens out especially if you get an advanced degree.

My basic point is you need a well-rounded education. America has always believed unlike Europe or Asia, you don't need to be given a technical training on an apprenticeship, you need to get a broad general education because the economy changes, your life changes, you end up with six jobs. The president of Harvard said, our job is not to train you for your first job but for your sixth job.

PEREIRA: I actually agree with you and I think this is validation for me and my parents given my humanities background. Bu the thought is, if we use the Steve Jobs example, you need one or two of those thus trained individuals where you need a boatload of engineers and tech savvy people to make a company like Apple run.

ZAKARIA: Actually, no, if you look at a lot of these companies, what you need is people who understand how human beings interact with technology. You see, we're not going to be South Korea, we're an advanced country. We're not going to win or dominate the country by making cheaper computer chips. They're already making those in China, right.

PEREIRA: Yes, that's done. It's handled.

ZAKARIA: What we do best is figure out how do people interact with computers, how do they interact with other technology.

Look at something as simple as Starbucks. You take something that used to cost 20 cents and the guy sells it for $7. That's genius. But that's not technically genius.

So, for a big advanced industrial technology that's mostly serviced, there's a lot of space for these kind of jobs. Take the world of entertainment, which is one of the fastest growing industries in America, it centered around songs, creativity, design -- of course, you have to know how to work with technology, because all work today, I mean, we know -- all work today is working with technology.

But don't feel like you can't follow your passion and study history or design or whatever it is, because if you do it and you do it well, you still have to work hard, you still have to understand how to, you know, work with others.