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Tricky Issues Loom on Deadline Day; Travel Bans Issued over Indiana Law; Netanyahu Speaks at Parliament Opening; Patriots Owner Testifies. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 31, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:29:45] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Jim Sciutto is CNN's chief national security correspondent. He joins us now from Washington. I think probably some lawmakers agree with that poll and with the people of America.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question, Carol, and that's why what you'll hear from Secretary of State John Kerry. He said this for a number of months now.

In the old negotiations with the Soviet Union, the saying used to be "trust but verify". What Secretary Kerry will say about these talks is "verify but verify".

Yes, he will grant there's very little trust. There's been a lot of Iranian violation of previous agreement. So the intention is the administration -- the Obama administration says is to make sure that in any agreement you are constantly verifying and monitoring so that really trust in their view is not involved. You're going to show and watch and see that there is compliance with the deal.

But listen, you know, this is a difficult thing to do. There are a lot of hidden sites that have been built to be hidden in the past; sites were not revealed in the past. There are real questions going forward. You see that reflected very much in just the view of the American people.

COSTELLO: So the Obama administration says there's a 50/50 chance that a deal could be reached. What are you hearing?

SCIUTTO: Well, here's the thing. Anything can happen in the next seven and a half hours, before the deadline, midnight tonight, European time, Switzerland time. There appears to be momentum moving towards some sort of general agreement where you make a statement, you say we have made progress on these issues. We have the outlines of an agreement going forward. But in the so called technical phase between now and the end of June, you work out the issues that you haven't yet worked out -- kind of grant that there are things that still need to be involved.

Now Carol, there's another word for that, I think you can argue -- an extension. You can call that another extension of the negotiations, if you're admitting you haven't worked out some of the key issues that are really standing in the way of a deal, but the argument might be, listen, we've made enough progress, everybody is invested. We can work the issues out.

And just to give you an example, one of those issues is how quickly do you lift, for instance, the economic sanctions on Iran? Iran wants it right away. The U.S. and the West want to lift it gradually so that you can verify Iranian compliance with it. But, you know, that's not the only issue out there. It's also on there are indeed going forward, as you see up there on the screen, that first bullet point there, and how quickly those sanctions might snap back if Iran violates the deal.

These are all big questions, and it looks like the momentum is towards some sort of general agreement where some of those big questions aren't answered yet. And that sounds to me like an extension. I don't know if you agree. But at least it seems that they might think they've made enough progress to move on.

COSTELLO: We'll see. Jim Sciutto -- I must say, I agree with you. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Let's talk more about this with former ambassador Nicholas Burns. He's also a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. Welcome, Mr. Ambassador.

NICHOLAS BURNS, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: How much is on the line for President Obama now to reach a deal?

BURNS: Well, this is a significant agreement for President Obama. If you think about his presidency more than six years now, I think he's focused more on Iran. It's been a higher priority for him than just about any other foreign policy issue, and the administration has put enormous time and commitment into these talks, designed to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons power. So the stakes are very high for the United States, as well as for Iran, of course.

COSTELLO: So it's safe to say if this deal doesn't go through, it will be one of President Obama's worst failures?

BURNS: I wouldn't say that. I think that, you know, frankly what the President has been able to do here, very much following, by the way, the actions of second term president George W. Bush is to sanction Iran and to force them to the negotiating table. The Iranian program has been frozen in place since November of 2013, which is a very important fact here. And they haven't been able to make progress for a year and a half in that journey towards a nuclear weapon.

So I think the administration has done well, but of course, the proof is going to be in the pudding, and we'll have to see what the final deal looks like.

As Jim Sciutto said, it looks like today will be a framework -- kind of a conceptual framework of how the deal would be put together with some of the major elements in place. But there's a saying in diplomacy, "Nothing is over until it's over". And that over will be June 30th of this year.

COSTELLO: Ok. Well, let's say they put that framework together. You know, Congress still has to approve this deal, so I'm sure the President and his men and women will start to kind of try to convince lawmakers to push this deal through. Do you think they have a chance of convincing lawmakers that this is good for America and good for the world?

BURNS: I think they have a chance. Obviously it's a highly partisan environment. Many Republicans already seem to have their minds made up, which I think is a shame. In our constitutional process, the President leads on foreign policy particularly when we are involved in a high stakes, very complex international negotiation.

I really think it's proper, Carol, for Congress to let the President complete these negotiations, and not to interfere with those negotiations as those 47 senators did when they sent a letter to the Iranian government, just last month, in the middle of these negotiations.

[10:35:05] Congress has a role to play, of course. But that role will come after June 30th, when the administration has a deal or doesn't have a deal.

And if a deal is arrived at, then of course, Congress will have to decide whether it supports it or not. One of the provisions will likely be that Congress would have to lift at some point some of the statutory sanctions that were put in place by previous sessions of Congress. That's the proper role for Congress, but not to interfere with the United States while we're at the negotiating table with the Iranians and others.

COSTELLO: Ambassador Nicholas Burns -- thanks for your insight as always. I appreciate it.

BURNS: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the newsroom, for city employees in San Francisco, travel to Indiana is now off limits. The city's mayor taking action in the wake of that controversial religious freedom law. I'll talk with the mayor next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Critics and supporters of Indiana's religious freedom law are keeping a close eye on the state capitol today, where in just about a half hour, Governor Mike Pence will address an issue that's brought him and his state sharp criticism.

Pence taking to the pages of the "Wall Street Journal" to defend the law writing in part quote, "I abhor discrimination. If I saw a restaurant owner refuse to serve a gay couple, I wouldn't eat there anymore. If I were presented a bill that legalized discrimination against any person or group, I would veto it," end quote. Pence's lieutenant governor reiterating that stance during this interview with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:40:02] LT. GOV. SUE ELLSPERMANN (D), INDIANA: We have great respect for the LGBT community and all those who are Hoosiers. We do not discriminate here. And if we have not clarified that in a fair way, we want to do that. And I think that is exactly what the general assembly is about doing right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But perhaps this headline from today's "Indianapolis Star", the state's largest newspaper, sums up the growing backlash. It says simply, "Fix this now."

And a big part of that backlash is coming from big business -- Starbucks joining names like Yelp, Apple and others in publicly condemning the law. Sports leagues among them the NCAA, which will hold its final four basketball tournament in Indianapolis this weekend, issuing statements critical of the law and saying they standby the LGBT community.

But there's also political pressure in addition to economics. Connecticut and Washington, issuing travel bans for state employees, echoing similar actions for city employees in Portland, Seattle, and San Francisco. And joining me now from San Francisco, Mayor Ed Lee. Welcome, sir.

MAYOR ED LEE, SAN FRANCISCO: Thank you -- Carol. Good morning.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. Do you believe the lieutenant governor of Indiana when she says that state officials respect the gay community?

LEE: You know, you have to take a look at what they just passed. And I think that that's official sanctioning of discrimination. We won't tolerate it, not as Americans and in this country. And I know for a fact that in our city, we've had a bad past. It really reminded me of laws that were passed in the state of California years ago where people like myself were not committed to vote or to get services.

I think our lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community deserve the equality we provide in this country. And this is why we took action to prevent the employees from being confronted with that kind of practice in Indiana.

And I am grateful that the business community in San Francisco were the ones that notified me first. Mr. Benioff from SalesForce, Jeremy Stoppelman from Yelp, Tim Cook and others took action. They asked me to take a look at this. When I did, it's a basic sense of right and wrong.

And I'm glad that the NCAA is taking a good hard look at this. Not just because they're headquartered. But they know that bringing in students and other businesses, they'll be confronted by the practices that might come up from this law, and I think they find this to be abhorrently wrong from the basics.

COSTELLO: But Mayor Pence, the governor of Indiana, said that, you know, he would not discriminate. He wouldn't sign a bill into law that discriminates. He says if he went to a restaurant and the restaurant refused to serve a gay person, he would not frequent that restaurant any longer. Do you think there's some misunderstanding between the two parties in this case?

LEE: Well, I believe what the state legislators have done is provide a defense on some religious freedom act that they want to restore, saying that you can discriminate on this. And this is where we have a very big difference of opinion. And while he may personally say that he doesn't want to discriminate, I think he is allowing others to do so. And this is where I think the business community has every right to say, not against my employees. Not against my customers. And I think that's what is going on here.

COSTELLO: If -- the governor is expected to speak in just about 15 minutes or so. If he says that Indiana would pass a law that bans discrimination against gay people, would that do it for you? Would that be enough?

LEE: Well, here in this particular law, they have afforded the right to discriminate. And this is where I think he's wrong. They've got to repeal this law. I don't think there's any way to go about it but to repeal the law that this passed because it was on its own face discriminatory and it permitted discrimination to happen in the private sector and to provide a defense for it.

This is absolutely wrong. And I think that's why you have the governors of Connecticut and Washington state and others joining. We all have a legal background. We know what this law does.

And I think that this basic sense of right and wrong is what's being played out here. I'm glad that the businesses are joining up and reviewing this, and more than criticism, I think we have to take action. That's why I banned our city employees. Unless it's absolutely essential when there's an emergency disaster, but outside of that, our employees should be subject to this kind of discrimination.

COSTELLO: Mayor Ed Lee of San Francisco, thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

LEE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the newsroom, we're just hours away from that critical nuclear talk deadline.

Up next, we'll take you live to Israel, where the prime minister is already condemning the negotiations.

[10:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I want to take you to Israel, to Jerusalem for just a moment. You're looking at live pictures of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is addressing the new members of the Israeli government. Newly-elected members are being sworn in today.

Let's talk about this a little bit because there's some other interesting things going on in Israel and Jerusalem in the days to come. I'm joined by CNN senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. Welcome, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol.

COSTELLO: So John Boehner is in the area, the Republican House Speaker, and I believe tomorrow he's going to be in Jerusalem. What's he doing there?

ZELENY: Well, Carol, Congress is at recess. So this is part of Speaker Boehner's sort of international trip here. But he is going to have a private meeting with Benjamin Netanyahu, who of course, Speaker Boehner played a key role in his election campaign. He, you know, made a lot of controversy here in the U.S. by inviting him to address the joint session of congress.

Now he's going back for some more private meetings, and he's likely to hold some type of a press conference with the Prime Minister later on this week. But it's not any type of a victory lap. At least that's what he told CNN's Dana Bash earlier this week. But it is a bit of sense that he is showing the Prime Minister how much he supports him.

And that's about politics back here at home as well as abroad. It's a very important piece of Republican politics for Speaker Boehner to show how aligned he is with Prime Minister Netanyahu.

[10:50:02] COSTELLO: Well, it is interesting timing because the framework for this nuclear deal with Iran is expected today.

ZELENY: It is.

And Speaker Boehner has been very pessimistic and dismissive of this agreement. He basically says Iran -- a deal should not be signed because the U.S. cannot verify and trust them. So he is talking about sanctions. He said that sanctions should begin abruptly and quickly after this deal if the deadline passes.

We'll see what happens. Congress is out of town for a couple of weeks here, but he's very pessimistic and skeptic. He's a huge skeptic of this deal that's brewing. He's not a part of the talks, of course, but he's very much on the side of Israel with this, where he does not believe a deal should be reached with the U.S. and Iran.

COSTELLO: I want to take our viewers back to Israel for just a moment because CNN correspondent Oren Liebermann is there. So how is John Boehner, or how will John Boehner be received by the people of Israel? Oren? Can you hear -- we can't hear him.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can hear you loud and clear.

COSTELLO: We're going to start over -- ok. Your microphone wasn't on or something happened.

You're going to have to start over. How are the people of Israel and Jerusalem? How will they receive John Boehner?

LIEBERMANN: Well, from Netanyahu's perspective, he knows very well who his strongest supporters in congress are. He knows it's the Republicans and he knows it's House Speaker John Boehner and Senator Mitch McConnell who was here earlier this week. So he'll play very much to that crowd who's giving him a very strong show of support.

The timing of this visit certainly no coincidence, right during the week of the nuclear deal deadline. The Israelis are keenly aware of the security coordination between Israel and the U.S. They know that's critical here. They know it's very important to the security of the country.

And so, I would imagine many Israelis very much supporting the visit and supporting what's behind the visit, which is the security of Israel as it relates to a nuclear Iran. There weren't many things agreed upon in the election we just got through here. One of the things many Israelis and even the politicians agreed on was the threat a nuclear Iran poses to the state of Israel.

COSTELLO: Will Benjamin Netanyahu and John Boehner talk behind the scenes about the American Congress' possible approving or not approving of this framework for a nuclear deal with Iran that's supposedly coming?

LIEBERMANN: It would be very hard to believe they wouldn't. They have meetings scheduled tomorrow. It's also interesting to note that Boehner will meet with the Defense Minister here. That's another development that we've learned here.

And Netanyahu has been opposed to the deal from the beginning. So has House Speaker John Boehner. Netanyahu has been working over the last few weeks and months to try to figure out how he can push back, how he can sort of present his resistance.

And now Boehner will be a part of that. Boehner will help him out just as Netanyahu will help Boehner. Netanyahu every day for the past few days has released some sort of statement. Some sort of opposition to this deal. And we fully expect him in his speech to talk against the deal once again. He focused a little bit on domestic issues. We expect him once again to touch on Iran.

Here's a statement his office released yesterday. This has been indicative of the message he's had over the last few days, weeks and months. The statement reads "The agreement being formulated in Lausanne sends a message that there is no price for aggression, and on the contrary, that Iran's aggression is to be rewarded. The moderate and responsibly countries in the region especially Israel and also many other countries will be the first to be hurt by this agreement."

That has been Netanyahu's line for a while now, and it will be his line through, we expect, the remainder of this week and that very important meeting with Boehner -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Oren Liebermann, Jeff Zeleny Thank you to both of you. I appreciate it. In other news this morning, a dramatic twist in the murder trial of a former NFL star Aaron Hernandez. His own boss, New England Patriots owner, Robert Kraft, taking the stand.

Joining me now to talk about this, CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins and Joey Jackson -- CNN legal analyst, HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorneys. So for both of you, I would like to play a bit of Kraft's testimony and then get your reaction. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT KRAFT, PATRIOTS OWNER: I understood there was an incident that had transpired and I wanted to know whether he was involved in, if he was, you know, I want to make sure he's part of our team Player who comes in to our system, I consider part of our extended family. And I wanted to get him help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So as a result, did you say this to the defendant?

KRAFT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did he say when you had asked him whether he was involved in this matter?

KRAFT: He said he was not involved. That he was innocent, and that he hoped that the time of the murder incident came out because, I believe, he said he was in a club.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok.

So at the time that you had this conversation with him, had you learned about a homicide that had occurred in North Attleboro, Massachusetts?

[10:55:01] KRAFT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when you refer to speaking to him about wanting to know whether he was involved in this incident, was it in relation to that homicide?

KRAFT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you indicated when you asked him that, he stated what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. What did he say about where he was when you asked him that?

KRAFT: I don't recall.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: All right. That was the testimony from the New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft. So Mel, I'll go to you first, what was the point of this testimony?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Wow, Carol, Joey -- what a great, great witness for the prosecution. And the Boston Twittersphere is going bananas around here. Because basically what happened is Aaron Hernandez lied to his boss. The only way that you rebut it is that you put him on the stand, and that's not going to happen.

This is an explosive piece of testimony this morning, in my mind.

COSTELLO: Expound further on that, Joey. Lied to his boss -- if my boss asked me if I was involved in a murder, I would probably say no. Why is that so surprising? And maybe he wasn't and he wasn't lying.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: A lot to do about nothing. Look, the reality is at the end of the day, Kraft wasn't there. Certainly was there an invitation to come in and talk about it to Kraft. Did he need to speak to his boss about what occurred -- he absolutely did. In terms of a lie, Mel, I certainly get that, but listen. At the end of the day, I don't remember. I don't recall. We know Kraft was not the best witness in this particular case, and I just don't know how much value ultimately he adds to the equation.

COSTELLO: Something interesting happened as Robert --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: But what he lied about, Joey, was not the murder. He lied about where he was.

JACKSON: The time.

ROBBINS: And by the way, how did he know when the murder happened unless he was there?

COSTELLO: Yes, that was the crucial piece that Joe and I talked about before that, you know, how does he know when the murder occurred? How does he know who was in the club at that time? Why did he say that to Robert Kraft? That's what the prosecution was - trying to get across.

ROBBINS: Exactly.

COSTELLO: Exactly -- ok.

So something interesting happened as Robert Kraft left the stand. Aaron Hernandez stared at him as he walked out of the courthouse. We're going to see it in just a minute. There he turns around and he looks at him. I don't know what he was thinking. But the reason that I point this out is this is unusual because Aaron Hernandez has not done this when any other witness left the stand, including his fiancee. I don't know -- maybe we're making too much of it, Joey.

JACKSON: Well, you know, remember also on cross-examination, what the defense, Carol. got him to admit. Aaron Hernandez. Good guy. He hugged him after the fact. He never had any issues, never had any problems with him, and so we'll see to the extent that that helps or doesn't help, but again, circumstantial evidence case, Carol. Will it help? Will it hinder? It's up to the jury to decide.

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Joey Jackson, Mel Robbins -- appreciate it as always. I wish I could go on, but I'm out of time. My show has ended.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.