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Zhou Yongkang, China's Former Security Chief Arrested; Flight Data Recorder Reveals Lubitz Sped Up; al Shabaab Gunned Down non-Muslims at Garissa University, Witnesses Say; A Look Behind Slumping iPad Sales. Aired 8:00-9:00a ET

Aired April 3, 2015 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:11] KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN HOST: I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. And welcome to News Stream where news and technology meet.

Now Kenyans mourn the day after a horrific attack on a university kills 147 people. China formally charges its former security chief Zhou Yongkang,

the biggest name yet to be caught in an anti-corruption drive.

And on this day in 2010 the original iPad went on sale. Five years on, we look at why sales are slipping.

We begin in the Kenyan town of Garissa where more details have emerged about the massacre at the university there. It began early on Thursday

morning. Al Shabaab militants set off a bomb at the school gate and started shooting their way onto the campus.

Now first, they stormed a Christian prayer service, and then they burst into dormitories, waking up terrified students.

Now witnesses say the attackers gunned down non-Muslims and spare the others.

A medic tells CNN that most victims were shot in the back of the head.

Let's get more now from ENCA correspondent Robyn Kriel who is in Nairobi. And Robyn, why did this happen? Why did al Shabaab attack a university?

ROBYN KRIEL, ENCA CORRESPONDENT: Well, according to al Shabaab spokesman Mohammed Ragga (ph). He said that the reason that they decided to attack a

university in northeastern Garissa is because they accused it of preaching Christianity as well as being a place of infidelity.

However, the main reason time and time again that al Shabaab has used for attacking various institutions, soft targets such as shopping malls, as you

saw in the Westgate attack in 2013, small villages. We've seen them attacking bars, throwing hand grenades into crowded restaurants, things

like that is that they want the Kenyan defense forces to withdraw their troops from Somalia.

Kenya sent its troops across the border into Somalia in 2011 using article -- United Nations article charter 54 as reference to that to protect one's

borders. Since then it's joined the African Union force currently battling the al Shabaab militancy trying to instill peace in that country and a

legitimate federal government.

LU STOUT: And Robyn, why Garissa. What make this town particularly vulnerable to a terror attack?

KRIEL: Well, the town is just a few miles from the border with Somalia. There is an enormous ethnic Somali Kenyan population there. So Shabaab

really if they were to -- they would be easily able to assimilate into that society.

However, it is quite a closed society. I've been there several times. Everyone seems to know each other. So, an attack like this must have had

to have been well planned and kept very secret.

Why exactly this specific town, the university, as I said, the spokesperson saying it was a place of infidelity. Al Shabaab does not advocate higher

learning, especially that of women in its Sharia law in its constitution of sorts. Teaching, especially of women, as I said.

And of course this university would be the center of learning, of education, of everything that Shabaab fundamentally stands against.

LU STOUT: And Robyn, this attack it puts security in Kenya under fresh scrutiny now. How capable is the Kenyan government to protect and to

safeguard its own people?

KRIEL: Well, I believe these vulnerabilities were exposed, Kristie, in 2013 and there had been sort of a belief in most people who lived here that

the Kenyan security services were able to -- that they had very good intelligence, that they were able to withstand a possible terror attack,

that they would have knowledge of this beforehand.

However, cracks in that intelligence apparatus were exposed during the Westgate siege lasting 80 hours in which a lot of misinformation was given.

It was quite clear that authorities didn't really know what was going on inside and then eventually sending the military in, which ended up in

complete disgrace, really, for the security service when it was exposed that the military had been looting after the rescue operation and indeed

the death of the attackers had occured.

How safe are people today? There have been a number of warnings given by the American embassy, the UK high commission, Australian, Israeli embassies

and various others stating that they believed an attack like this -- preferably not in so many words, but just for their citizens and embassy

staffers to be vigilant over the next few weeks to avoid public areas, to avoid public spaces.

The UK high commission even saying that they should avoid the coastline altogether.

In terms of security, we're going to have to see a real upsurge, a lot of police presence, which were already due to hit the street this Easter

weekend. But of course a tightening down even more.

[08:05:32] LU STOUT: Yeah, and just a moment we'll see the security and police presence in Garissa, in the immediate wake of this terrible attack.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us and giving us your view from Nairobi. Thank you, Robyn.

Now CNN's Christian Purefoy is live in Garissa. He's outside the university. He joins me now.

And what traces of the attack are you seeing there?

CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kristie, well it at 5:00 a.m. yesterday morning that the al Shabaab terrorists drove down this dirt

track, killed the two policemen standing guard at that gate and went in to the university where over 800 students were waking up to what they hoped,

what they thought, was just another normal day.

Now we've seen ambulances, we've seen pickups, we've seen security services going up and down this road all day. The university itself is sealed off,

we're not allowed in.

I have to say even here on the other side of that gate so close is a sense of detachment, Kristie, about the horror and the mass murder that happened

there yesterday -- Kristie.

LU STOUT: There's a sense of detachment about what happened. What about a sense of mourning? Have you seen vigils? How is the community coming

together to mourn that so many lives lost because of al Shabaab and this terrible massacre that took place yesterday?

PUREFOY: Well, I think at the moment it's a feeling of just sort of stunned shock, really. You know, we still don't know how many people have

died in there. The figure is thought to rise from the 147 we have at the moment.

And also it has to be remembered that the students in there didn't all come from just this community, they came from across Kenya. So it's really not

just this community that's going to be, you know, coming to terms with what happened behind those gates, Kristie, it's going to be the whole country.

There's a lot of people died -- a lot of people had family members inside the university, Kristie.

LU STOUT: Yeah, as a result of the massacre, security has been ramped up in a very significant way. A curfew has been imposed as well. But what is

the long-term security plan here? What do Kenyan authorities pledge to do to better safeguard its people at the university and in Garissa?

PUREFOY: Well, immediately, Kristie, we have been told that, you know, that the first thing is that they say there were four terrorists that went

in there and committed this act and that they have been killed. But they are looking for some sort of mastermind behind this.

The problem, Kristie, is that really this is -- you know, wide open spaces. You have the Somali border about 190 kilometers, about four hour drive down

bad dirt roads and about that direction. And it's a long porous border. It's very difficult to stop al Shabaab coming from its stronghold in the

rural communities in Somalia. And cross in to these regions and hitting soft targets like this.

So, really, you know, what Kenya is going to be able to do, ramp up its security obviously, but I think it's trying to stop it before it happens.

But again it's so difficult. These places are vast empty tracts of land that people in pickups can just drive through unnoticed, Kristie.

LU STOUT: Yeah, Christian, thank you very much indeed for mapping out why the area and why that community there is so vulnerable to attacks by this

Somali-based terror group. Christian Purefoy live on the ground from Garissa University, thank you.

Now the Saudi military is stepping up security at its border with Yemen.

Now this image, it comes from our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He is part of CNN crew traveling with the Saudi's border

patrol. And you saw these Saudi tanks moving into the border town of Jizan (ph). And this as the Saudi-led coalition tries to push back Houthi rebels

in Aden.

Now Houthi rebels seized the presidential palace there on Thursday, are said to control much of the city. Aden is the last major stronghold of

fighters loyal to the country's deposed President Hadi.

Now let's get the latest now on all these developments. Ian Lee joins me live from Cairo. And Ian, it's just reported Saudi tanks have moved to the

Yemen border as they step up security for border guards. A Saudi border guard was killed earlier this week. And this begs the question, is a

ground offensive going to come up next?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, definitely it appears that they're moving in that direction, Kristie. You do have, as you mentioned, those tanks

moving towards the border. That border guard killed, also in the southern part of the country along the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden you have

warships patrolling, keeping the shipping lanes open, but also preventing weapons from going to the Houthis to resupply them.

Then when you focus further on the port city of Aden, despite airstrikes going on for well into their second week, it hasn't seemed to be able to

stop the Houthi rebel's advance into the port city. And as you mentioned, it is the last major stronghold of the president -- of President Hadi. And

it is a very strategic town, because if any ground invasion were to take place, you'd likely see a two pronged approach to it from the north along

the Saudi border, but also from the south in taking the city of Aden, which has a large port that troops could disembark on. Weapons could go from

that direction.

So, despite these airstrikes we know that have been going against the Houthis we're hearing at the presidential palace where they recently -- we

took control of, it still hasn't been able to really stop their momentum going forward to taking that city.

[08:11:06] LU STOUT: And Ian, just an update from our Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. She says that a senior U.S. military officials told reporters

that the Saudis have told the United States that their moves on the border are all defensive aimed at border protection, that line from our Barbara

Starr at the Pentagon.

Now Ian, just talking about the general chaos in Yemen, the Houthi rebel advance in Aden, you gave us the update on that, meanwhile we have al Qaeda

in the Arabia Peninusla, AQAP, it opposes both the Houthi rebels and President Hadi and his supporters. How has al Qaeda benefited from all the

chaos there in Yemen?

LEE: Well, that's the one thing we've been watching closely is how they are exploiting the chaos. when you look at Yemen you can really break it

up between east and west. In the western part of the country it's where you have this current war going on between the Houthis and the president --

President Hadi's forces.

But when you look at the eastern part of the country this is where large swaths are under control, or at least operating grounds for al Qaeda in the

Arabian Peninsula. And this is the most lethal and dangerous branch of al Qaeda, or one of the most, in the world. The United States puts their

numbers at well over 1,000.

Yesterday, we saw a jailbreak in one of the capital city of the Hadra Moot (ph) province where about 100 militants linked to al Qaeda were freed,

including one of their commanders.

But they have laid low when it comes to actually engaging either party in this battle. They seem content to wait it out, to see what happens, to

make gains where they can. But the real danger is that the United States has pulled out advisers from Yemen. They were there to help go after these

al Qaeda militants without them there, there really is no way to track them or keep tabs on these militants as they operate in Yemen.

LU STOUT: All right, CNN's Ian Lee reporting live on the situation in Yemen. Many thanks indeed for your reporting, Ian.

Now the Israeli prime minister is up in arms over the framework nuclear deal with Iran. And after the break, a live report from Jerusalem.

Also ahead, alarming new information from the second black box in the crashed Germanwings plane. We'll take a look at what it reveals about the

flight's final minutes.

And later in the hour, he was one of China's most powerful officials. And now Zhou Yangkang goes on trial for corruption. We've got the details

ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:17] LU STOUT: Welcome back. You're watching News Stream. And you're looking at a visual version of all the stories we've got in the show

today. We've told you about the aftermath of that horrific attack in Kenya by Islamist militants. And later, we'll hear more details of what Andreas

Lubitz did in the final moments of Germanwings flight 9525.

But first, after a standoff lasting more than a decade, the blueprint for a landmark nuclear deal with Iran is now in place.

Now three more months of talks lie ahead to fill in the final details, but as of now here's what the framework agreement looks like.

Now Iran will reduce its number of centrifuges, its enrichment capacity and its stockpile of atomic fuel, and in exchange the west is to lift

sanctions.

The Iranian foreign minister arrived home to a heroes welcome with crowds chanting long live Zarif in the streets of Tehran.

But meanwhile, back in the United States, the president faces pushback at home and abroad.

Now he wants to reset ties with Iran, but now he has to sell the deal to congress and to Israel. The Israeli prime minister has already called the

deal a threat to his country's survival.

Now CNN's Oren Lieberman is in Jerusalem. He joins us now. And Oren, we are waiting for Mr. Netanyahu to make additional comments about this deal.

OREN LIEBERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And right we're waiting on video of that statement. But we very much expect it to be more of the same sort of

rhetoric, more of the same sort of language that we heard from the prime minister's office over the last few days, weeks and perhaps even months as

Netanyahu at his rally and lobbied against this deal. His rhetoric getting even stronger, and perhaps his strongest words to date.

He said this deal would increase the risk for a, quote, horrific war, horrific war, some very strong language coming from Netanyahu, and that's

because he truly believes this deal is a threat to Israel. He says that the critical elements weren't there to make this a safe deal for Israel and

he lobbied against what's in the deal and what's not in the deal.

He criticized what's in the deal, because he said it didn't disassemble, it didn't really take apart Iran's nuclear infrastructure so that they can

continue research. They have centrifuges, they can continue to enrich uranium. And that he also said he wanted to see the lifting of sanctions

tied to Iran's pullback on aggression in the region. He said that's not there either. His government standing firm against this deal, criticizing

it, saying it threatens not only the security of Israel, but Kristie, the security of the stability of the Middle East.

LU STOUT: And Oren, now the U.S. President Barack Obama, he has to sell this deal to many skeptics in Washington. So will Benjamin Netanyahu

continue to engage with the U.S. congress about what he thinks of the deal?

LIEBERMAN: Well, we absolutely expect him to keep working with his allies in the U.S. congress. Just this week, we saw House Speaker John Boehner

here. We saw Senator Mitch McConnell here. And they both very much backed up Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. McConnell even said if there is a

deal they'll push for required congressional approval of that deal. And we know where Netanyahu stands. Netanyahu could work with the Republicans,

perhaps even some Democrats, to lobby against the deal to require that congressional approval and that could be a very, very big road block to

President Barack Obama in three months when this deal is finalized.

LU STOUT: Oren Lieberman reporting live from Jerusalem, thank you.

Now, the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry played a key role in securing a breakthrough during those around the clock nuclear negotiations this week

in Switzerland. And he spoke with our global affairs correspondent Elise Labott after the framework deal was announced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: When this is over in 15 years, Iran can, you know, pretty much do whatever it wants. So, this is a

real --

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: No, it can't.

LABOTT: This is a real political gamble, Mr. Secretary, that the regime is going to be different in 15 years.

KERRY: No. It is not a gamble on the regime being different. It is not a gamble. It is based on proof. There's no element of trusting here.

LABOTT: You don't trust the Iranians?

KERRY: That's not the issue. In any negotiation about arms you can't just do it on words. You do it on actions and verifiability.

Now here we have a system of inspection, a system of accountability, where we will be able to know or challenge if we don't know, for access to have

an understanding...

LABOTT: But they won't be bound by it?

KERRY: But we have long -- no, no, that's not true. There's a 15 year set of things that are required, there's no enrichment, for instance, no this -

- you know, and then there's a 20 year component, there's a 25 year component of being able to track the uranium.

There's a lot here that on close examination people will see reinforces the ability to be able to know what is happening.

But the Iranians, to their credit, have said we're willing to joint venture in some situation. You may have the French or the Chinese or the Koreans

or somebody in there working on some of this. And so there are a lot of compounded components which when you put them all together our experts are

quite confident gives us a sense of confidence about that long-term.

And if they violate, we're going to have available to us all the kinds of choices we have today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:20: 22] LU STOUT: And that was U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry there.

Now the elation of Iranians was not just visible on the streets of Tehran, it also went viral online. It is unheard of to see a live broadcast of a

U.S. president's speech in Iran, but that's what happened on Thursday as Mr. Obama talked about the nuclear agreement. And a number of Iranians,

they documented the historic moment on Twitter. People, like this man, they took selfies with their TV screens during the speech.

Now here a Twitter user jokingly pinches President Barack Obama's cheek.

And then we have this young couple. And they're watching the speech on Iran's national news network and they also took a selfie with the U.S.

president.

Now you're watching news Stream. Still to come on the program, authorities are starting to retrieve the data inside the Germanwings flight's second

black box. We'll tell you what they uncovered next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LU STOUT: Coming to you live from Hong Kong, you are back watching News Stream. Now authorities have taken a first look at that flight data

recorder from Germanwings flight 9525. And what they found is startling.

Now they say initial tests show that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz not only deliberately crashed the plane, but that he purposefully sped up the

plane's descent. This comes after investigators discovered several internet searches on Lubitz's tablet computer, which revealed that he was

researching suicide methods and cockpit door security.

Let's get more on what that first read on the flight data recorder is revealing. Will Ripley joins us from Dusselfdorf with an update. Will,

what more do we know?

[08:25:33] WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All of this is so chilling and disturbing, Kristie, when you think about the people who were on this

plane. And you look at the new images that are just now coming in of the data recorder. And you can see just how damaged it was in this crash. It

was charred and embedded some 20 centimeters into the terrain where the plane went down. And when -- nonetheless, they have been able to extract

the information, the initial read of the data recorder. And it shows that Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot, once he locked himself in the cockpit he set

the plane's auto pilot controls to 100 feet, starting the descent, that eight minute terrifying descent towards the French Alps.

And then even more disturbing, Kristie, he was increasingly, manually, the plane's speed as it was moving closer and closer to the mountain and that's

why passengers were hearing these very loud alarms at the time that the plane was going down. It must have just been so terrifying. And yet the

information also leads investigators to believe that Lubitz the whole time was alive and conscious. He was heard breathing normally in the cockpit up

until the very moment of impact, Kristie.

LU STOUT: You know, it's been incredible the scope of this investigation analyzing the two black boxes, analyzing medical notes, of course, the

crash site scene. And also Lubitz's personal tablet computer. There was a forensic analysis of that device. What did investigators learn?

RIPLEY: They seized it from his apartment. And what they learned has led at least one government official here in Germany to tell us that they

believe this was a case of premeditated murder, and here is why. On the tablet's internet browser, the search history wasn't deleted. And for a

full week leading up to the crash, even the day before, Lubitz was searching for things like methods to commit suicide, and most chilling

cockpit doors and their security measures.

It shows that he was thinking about exactly what he wanted to do, but yet they still don't have the key question answered, which is why he did it,

because there was no note. There has been no other clues. We know about his mental health history. We know he had relationship problems with his

girlfriend and that he also was in fear of losing his pilot's license. But still, no smoking gun to indicate why on earth he would do this and take

149 lives along with him.

LU STOUT: Yeah. And as investigators still try to figure out why this happened and the motive, what's being done to prevent similar tragedies, to

make sure that something like this never happens again?

RIPLEY: Clearly this is a case where the system, all of the safeguards put in place to prevent somebody who was clearly struggling with mental illness

at the least, and perhaps had much sinister intent -- or he did have more sinister intent, it was not perhaps -- the system to keep somebody like

that out of a cockpit with innocent lives in his hands, that system failed.

So here in Germany, they are establishing a task force. And they are looking through every detail of this case, Kristie, to see what exactly

went wrong, what could be done differently in the future while still honoring patient confidentiality laws, which are very strict here in

Germany, but also to try to make things safer for people who get on an aircraft.

LU STOUT: CNN's Will Ripley reporting live for us from Dusseldorf, many thanks indeed for that, Will.

Now you're watching News Stream. And still to come on the program, a dramatic fall from grace. A one-time top Chinese official is now facing

corruption charges. We'll have more after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:24] LU STOUT: I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. You're watching News Stream and these are your world headlines.

Now the framework for a landmark nuclear deal with the Iranians is now in place. Iran is to reduce its number of centrifuges, its enrichment

capacity and its stockpile of atomic fuel. In exchange, the west will life sanctions. Now the U.S. president has warned congress not to sabotage the

blueprint for a final deal.

Now more details are emerging about the massacre at Garissa University in Kenya. Nearly 150 people were killed when al Shabaab gunmen shot their way

onto the school grounds. Witnesses say the attackers singled out non- Muslim students.

And the keenly awaited U.S. jobs report for March has just been released. The U.S. government says the economy added 126,000 jobs last month.

Now expectations were for jobs growth of around 244,000 jobs. We'll have much more on this U.S. jobs report in World Business Today about 30 minutes

from now.

Now he retired in 2012 as one of China's most powerful men. And now Zhou Yangkang will stand trial for corruption. Now prosecutors have charged the

former security chief with bribery, abuse of power and leaking state secrets. Andrew Stevens reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The charges against Zhou Yangkang, even if they were expected by many, are still a bombshell. He's

easily the highest ranking official caught in President Xi Jinping's anti- corruption drive. In fact, they don't come much more powerful in China than Zhou.

When he retired in 2012, he was chief of all internal security in the world's most populous country, responsible for the police, fire services

and the courts with an annual budget bigger even than the Chinese military.

He was also part of the nine person politburo standing committee, which effectively ruled the country.

Zhou is charged with accepting bribes, abuse of power and leaking state secrets. It follows his arrest and expulsion from the Community Party in

December last year after an internal party investigation.

According to the state news agency Xinhua, that investigation found Zhou, quote, took advantage of his position to seek profits for others.

Investigators said that he took huge bribes both personally and through his family. And traded his power for sex and money.

Now analysts say it's no surprise that Zhou has been caught up in President Xi's anti-corruption drive. Critics of the president say that he's using

it to purge his political rivals and Zhou was certainly seen as hat.

He was close to Bo Xilai, the former Chongqing party boss jailed for life in 2013 on corruption charges. Bo was considered a powerful political

rival to President Xi as well.

But the corruption purge has also been welcomed by many ordinary Chinese, tens of thousand of people ranging from low level officials to senior party

members, business leaders and the military brass have been caught up in the so-called tigers and flies campaign, so named because it aims at corruption

both big and small.

When Zhou trial will be a huge event in China. And President Xi's evident confidence in taking such a powerful player to the courts underlines to

many China watchers just how powerful he's become as supreme leader of the country.

Andrew Stevens, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:34:43] LU STOUT: Now it's important to note just how powerful and feared Zhou Yangkang really was.

Now while there's been plenty of big names snared by the corruption crackdown, no other get has been on this scale.

Now Zhou's role as security chief meant that he was the country's top policeman and spy. He knew everything about everyone. He also controlled

the courts and prosecution offices across China.

Now earlier today, CNN's reports on Zhou Yangkang's charges were blacked out in China. But you could still read about his fall from grace on our

website. The article is called "Zou Yangkang from apex of power to caged tiger." You can find it at CNN.com.

You're watching News Stream. And coming up next, the iPad is turning five. It was once the hottest (inaudible), but is its popularity starting to

wane? That story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:10] LU STOUT: Now five years ago today, the original iPad went on sale. It wasn't the first tablet computer, but it was the catalyst for a

computing revolution.

Now the tablet market exploded after the iPad's launch. Even Microsoft rebuilt Windows to work on touchscreens. But as a revolution that has

shown signs of stalling.

Now, here is how many iPads Apple has reported selling every fiscal year. And you can see that sales dip in 2014. And in their most recent quarter,

iPad sales dipped from the same period a year ago.

So what's behind the iPad's slide? Well, let's go to our regular contributor now. Nick Thompson is the editor of the New Yorker.com. And

he joins me live from New York.

Good to see you, Nick.

And the iPad, Nick, as you know, it's been a successful groundbreaking product, but recently iPad sales have been declining. Why?

NICHOLAS THOMPSON, EDITOR, NEW YORKER.COM: Well, there are lots of reasons, right. That's not the normal chart you see from Apple -- up, up,

up, up, down. So, a few things have been going on.

First of all, what Apple likes to talk about, sales early on were huge and people don't replace them as often. So, Apple says, look, people are still

using them, they're just not buying new ones. That's partly true.

But there are a bunch of other factors going on, one of which is that the iPads haven't evolved as fast as everybody would like. Second of all,

tablets haven't become as integrated into our lives, so developers haven't optimized them. And then the most important factor is that they've been

squeezed by phones. Phones are the nexus of innovation, that's where everything is happening.

And then not only that, when the iPad launched, our laptops were really chunky and our phones were really small. Now, our phones are really big

and our laptops are really light. So there isn't as much space for the iPad to exist in.

LU STOUT: You know, it's an interesting point you raised about evolving. You know, we replace our smartphones all the time because the technology

changes more dramatically. That hasn't been the case for our tablets. But Nick, does it have to be that way?

THOMPSON: Well, you know, it's interesting. There are kind of I think two broad ways that these devices evolve. The first is they get faster, the

screens get better, the memory improves, they can hold more stuff, right. That happens with iPads and tablets, that kind of change.

But the second kind of change where suddenly this device that you use for one thing you can use for something else, you know this happened with our

phones when they replaced our cameras, when we started learning to pay with them, when we started doing all kinds of new things -- we started

connecting with our watches -- that kind of change hasn't happened with the iPad. And in part that's because we don't bring our iPads with us, so

people don't develop things to do that.

But the iPad basically does the same stuff it did at the beginning just better and with a better screen, whereas phones have completely

transformed. So, maybe it does have to be that way.

LU STOUT: You know, I think we've talked about this before when you meet up with friends at a bar at a restaurant you put your iPhone or your

smartphone on the table, you don't put your tablet computer on the table.

Now, when the iPad was launched, there was a lot of talk about it replacing the laptop, right, but that never really happened. But has the iPad

effectively created its own category, its own product category?

[08:40:01] THOMPSON: Yeah, I think that's exactly what happened, right.

So if you watch the early -- if you watch that Steve Jobs video when he introduced the video, the one you teased right before, and you watch it

again he talks about it replacing the laptop and how it's better for typing than the laptop, and he talks about all kinds of things that in retrospect

seem slightly insane, right. It's not better to type on your tablet than it is on a laptop. A laptop is better (inaudible) around the house,

watching kind of stuff I love, reading long stuff on it, but the truth is it's not as good for a lot of the work we do as laptops are.

So it has taken some of the marketshare from laptops, but you're absolutely right, what it's really done is created a middle product category between

phones and laptops. And that product category is not as big as Apple would have liked.

LU STOUT: And Nick, the cultural impact: has the iPad changed the way, for example, media, especially online media, has been produced and designed in

the last five years?

THOMPSON: Oh, that's a super interesting question. I don't think it has - - I don't think the iPad has changed the way online media is produced and looks as much as the way online media is produced and looks has changed the

market for the iPad.

And what I mean by that is that when the iPad came around, the web was kind of organized by Google. It was organized by links. There were all kinds

of cluttered pages, design was very different.

And so Steve Jobs came along and he had this different vision for a much cleaner web and that's the way the iPad was presented.

But what's happened over the last five years as the web has been reorganized and it's been reorganized mainly by Facebook and not by Google,

so there's less of a premium for links and there's also a much different design aesthetic across the internet and across most of the websites you

read. And the design aesthestic is much larger pictures, much sparser, much cleaner.

That design aesthetic is Steve Jobs' design aesthetic, and it's the design aesthetic that he was initially pushing the iPad for.

So, five years ago Steve Jobs said the iPad is the only way you can get this clean way of looking at the web, but what happened is the web changed

and now you can kind of get a clean way of looking at the web on your phone and on every other device.

So the iPad in a way has become less essential because of this design change that Steve Jobs was pushing.

LU STOUT: Got it. I think I just had an epiphany there thanks to you as always. Nick Thompson, New Yorker.com. Always, always enjoy our

conversations. Thank you very much for your insight and take care.

Now the iPad (inaudible) in 2010, again five years ago, but it was actually in development well before that. Now during Apple's legal fight with

Samsung, this slide was revealed showing what appears to be an iPad prototype from as early as, get this, 2002. Apple actually worked on the

iPad before the iPhone, but Steve Jobs decided to focus on building the phone first before scaling the technology up to work on a larger screen.

And that is News Stream. I'm Kristie Lu Stout. But don't go anywhere, World Sport with Christina Macfarlane is next.

END