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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
Witness: Walter Scott Never Grabbed Taser; Verdict Watch in Hernandez Trial; Will Obama Meet Raul Castro at Summit?; Thieves Steal $300 Million in Gems, Cash in London. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired April 9, 2015 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:8] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: AT THIS HOUR, we're hearing key details from the man who took this very important cell phone video, video that shows a police officer fatally shooting a fleeing unarmed man in the back in North Charleston, South Carolina. The man who shot the video, Feidin Santana, says this that he saw them struggling on the ground. The officer appeared to have control of the situation, according to Santana. Also Santana says he never saw the victim, Walter Scott, grab the officer's Taser, a claim now former officer, Michael Slager, has made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FEIDIN SANTANA, WITNESS: I saw that he was trying to get away of the Taser. His reaction was just, you know, to get away of the Taser.
UNIDENTIFIED TODAY SHOW HOST: Was there a struggle over the Taser that you saw? Were they fighting over it?
SANTANA: No. He never grabbed the Taser of the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Was there a struggle over the Taser? No. No. That is key. This all started when Scott was pulled over for a broken taillight. He allegedly ran from his car, possibly worried about an outstanding warrant for not paying child support.
Joining us to talk about this, the victim's brother, Rodney Scott, and also Chris Stewart, the family's attorney.
Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
Rodney, we're very sorry for your loss.
I want to ask for your reaction, first of all, to the sound we just heard from Feidin Santana saying he did not see a struggle for the Taser. We know Michael Slager based his whole justification for shooting your brother on the notion that there was a struggle for the Taser. Your reaction?
RODNEY SCOTT, BROTHER OF WALTER SCOTT: I was just floored, in total disbelief of the fact that he would say that there was a struggle, and then when I saw that there wasn't a struggle, I was so broken. It really tore me apart to hear and know that he would lie -- make a statement like that that wasn't true.
BERMAN: Because you had heard the charges, you had heard what the officer said and then you saw this video for yourself, isn't that right?
SCOTT: Yes, I did.
BOLDUAN: When you saw that video, I know we've heard from other members of your family that it was just too hard to take. Your mother spoke with Anderson Cooper saying she couldn't even watch the whole thing. Did you, yourself, watch the whole thing?
SCOTT: I tried to, but it was hard to watch it.
BOLDUAN: At this point --
SCOTT: Feel like I'm going to pass out.
BOLDUAN: Are you OK? Take a deep breath. Are you OK right now?
SCOTT: I feel like I'm --
CHRIS STEWART, SCOTT FAMILY ATTORNEY: Yeah, we're going to stop for a second.
SCOTT: I don't think so.
BOLDUAN: OK, let's take a moment.
Let's take a commercial break. Let's go to commercial break. We'll come back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:37:10] BOLDUAN: Just before we went to break, we cut the interview short with Rodney Scott, Walter Scott's younger brother. He was not feeling well. He's unable to continue with the interview. It's clear the emotional and, at this point, the physical toll this is taking on the family. He's unable to continue the interview. We wanted to make sure to let you know he appears to be OK. He didn't feel comfortable coming back on. We'll get back to the family. We are with them and final for them at this time as they're trying to get their story out. Obviously, it's taking such a toll on him.
BERMAN: He told us he was floored when he first saw that video and how it contradicted what he had been told by the officers.
BOLDUAN: We'll be keeping close with them.
BERMAN: AT THIS HOUR we're are also on verdict watch in the trial of Aaron Hernandez. The jury is in its second full day of deliberations, deciding whether to convict the former NFL star of first degree murder. His defense team says he witnessed the killing but did not commit the crime. The jury did have questions for the judge. So now the question is, are they having trouble making up their minds.
BOLDUAN: Let's bring in legal analysts, criminal defense attorney, Paul Callan; as well, legal analyst, Mel Robbins.
Great to see both of you as always.
So, Paul, we're looking at this, almost 11 hours into deliberating, there have been questions coming back. Before we get to those questions -- they are technical. Are you surprised they have been deliberating this long after this nine-week-long case?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, not at all surprised. It's a complicated case, a circumstantial case where each piece of physical evidence has to be evaluated. This is a reasonable amount of time for the jury to deliberate in the case.
BOLDUAN: Mel, let's get to questions the jury has been asking about. There are a couple things they've asked about, the definition, if you will, of constructive position, what that means with regard -- possession. I'm sorry -- constructive possession, what that means with regards to a weapons charge. What does that suggest to you that the jury is really getting into?
MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What the jury really is getting indicate, John, is the details. They're looking at the law, in this case both for the joint venture liability, the law governing how they're trying to convict him on the murder charges, the constructive possession of the gun. And don't forget there's also a charge related to possessing ammunition. They're looking at the kind of convoluted way the law is written. There are jury instructions. Of course, you have over 400 pieces of evidence. As Paul rightly said, this is a very complicated circumstantial case that had over 100 witnesses in it, 400 pieces of evidence. So they're struggling. What they're struggling with is probably conflicting opinions inside of the jury room and what jurors often do, they seek clarification from a judge on the instructions when there isn't a clear path forward in the discussions, guys.
[11:40:31] BERMAN: But it's also interesting, too, this could be a bit of a split between what the prosecution and defense is presenting here. They want to know if it's just enough to have the weapon or did you mean to use it to kill somebody. Based on the closing arguments, the question is was Aaron Hernandez just there, a bystander to this murder or was he there helping and watching and being a part of a murder. These sorts of passive-versus-active questions, Paul, may be central to this entire case.
CALLAN: Yes. I give the jury credit here because the whole concept is when the case started, was that Hernandez was the shooter because he was seen taking what they thought was a gun out of his belt when he drives his car back to his house. Now with the defense saying and changing their theory essentially and saying, oh, yeah, he was there. But when the shooting started, he panicked and didn't know what to do, he wasn't the shooter. The jury is asking a big question, can you constructively possess a weapon if there was another shooter but they all together planned the murder? This indicates to me they understand the law. I'll tell you one other thing about jury questions, which is why, don't read too much into them. I've had cases where it was 11-1 in favor of conviction, or I've had another one opposed to conviction and there's one juror holding out saying, no, I don't think so. They say, all right, we're going to ask the judge a question about possession because you're wrong on that, and that's used to convince the holdout. So sometimes --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: A question is just a question until you have a verdict.
CALLAN: You don't know who is asking the question.
BOLDUAN: That's exactly right.
Mel, a lot of the conversation now, when you say -- and everyone agrees this is largely a circumstantial case, circumstantial evidence in this case, do you think it's becoming increasingly likely or less that Aaron Hernandez could walk?
ROBBINS: Well, you know, it is a major question that a lot of us are talking about around kitchen tables and in restaurants. Here's the thing. What you have to understand is in a joint venture liability case where they're claiming -- they don't have to prove who pulled the trigger, they do have to prove one thing, though. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Hernandez shared the intent of the people that pulled the trigger.
BOLDUAN: That seems difficult.
ROBBINS: So what I find -- it's very difficult. It's very difficult. What the defense just said is he was there, he witnessed it, but he wasn't in on it. So the question is going to become, does all the circumstantial evidence that we were all analyzing and saying, of course it puts him at the scene, of course he was involved in it, now they're going to take a focus and look at it and say, well, does all this circumstantial evidence, the bubble gum, the shell casing, the shoe print, the joint with the DNA at the scene, the video image of him pulling out a gun in his house. Of course, the defense is saying it's an iPad. Does that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he shared the intent behind what happened there of killing him, or was he just a bystander? For me personally, I don't think two people would be killing somebody else in front of Aaron Hernandez and then going back to his house and casually hanging out if they didn't think Aaron Hernandez agreed with what they were doing. So I do think they have enough. But it will be close. It's a very difficult case to prove.
BOLDUAN: And that it's also gone on for nine weeks, over 100 witnesses, 400 pieces of evidence.
CALLAN: Great lawyers, too. You had great defense lawyers putting up a lot of arguments. I've heard they've outlawyered the prosecutors. In my experience, the facts determine cases. Great lawyers can move the needle a little bit, but in the end, the facts determine. And these are interesting facts. BOLDUAN: The jury is deliberating as we speak.
CALLAN: Yeah.
BERMAN: Paul Callan, Mel, thanks so much.
BOLDUAN: Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, the robbery that has British authorities scratching their heads. Ours, too.
BERMAN: Don't touch that hair.
[11:44:29] BOLDUAN: Don't touch that hair. They are searching for a fortune. How did thieves get power tools into the heart of London's diamond trade, safe deposit boxes torn apart, and they made away with millions and millions of dollars.
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BOLDUAN: At this moment, President Obama is in Jamaica meeting the country's prime minister, this comes before he heads to the Summit of the Americas in Panama where Cuban president Raul Castro will be present.
BERMAN: Visiting the Bob Marley Museum.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: This is the best part of his presidential journey.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: President Obama going to visit the Bob Marley Museum. We should get a full report on that.
But first, let's talk about other thing things.
(LAUGHTER)
The president and the White House going to great lengths to improve relations with Cuba. That will be the topic of discussion on coming days. He could run into Cuba's leader Raul Castro. The White House has already said it's likely they will see each other, will exchange greetings.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: It was described as they will have an interaction.
(LAUGHTER)
BERMAN: They will have an interaction. Like half my relationships in high school.
(LAUGHTER)
Let's bring in senior White House correspondent, Joe Johns. Joe, give us an update on what's going on down there.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. Well, AT THIS HOUR, the president of the United States is meeting before the cameras with Jamaican prime minister, Portia Simpson Miller, a graduate of the John F. Kennedy School of Harvard University, member of the People's National Party. This is the type of meeting that perhaps the most important thing for the president of the United States is simply showing up in Jamaica. This is the first visit of a sitting U.S. president in this country since 1982. It's been a very long time. Now, the expectation is, yes, that the president will have some type of interaction with Raul Castro, although there is no formal meeting actually scheduled. Still, senior White House aides have suggested they do have a formal agenda prepared for the president should he meet Castro there in Panama and discuss things with him face to face.
Earlier today, an interview was released with one of the leading Spanish language news agencies. The president was asked whether he and Castro would get together and announce the reopening of embassies in Havana as well as Washington D.C. The president said in that interview that diplomats are making progress toward that goal. And he does anticipate that those embassies will open. But he did not say when and there was no forward-looking statement about meeting with Raul Castro.
Kate and John, back to you.
[11:51:05] BERMAN: Joe Johns, thanks so much.
We're keeping our eye on Jamaica right now. The president is expected to comment on world issues. Might comment on what's going on in South Carolina. If that does happen, we'll bring it to you immediately.
Ahead for us, a safe deposit heist. Turns out they weren't safe at all. Unbelievable robbery out of London. The thieves made off with an estimated $300 million. How did they do it?
BOLDUAN: But first, a look at the newest innovations. Today, CNN's Laurie Segall is going to show us a new app that is wildly successful and controversial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 24- year-old Tyler Droll and Brooks Buffington are the founders of Yik Yak. The app lets you send anonymous messages and read chatter within a 1.5 radius. Brooks and Tyler first worked on the app in college.
BROOKS BUFFINGTON, CO-FOUNDER OF YIK YAK: We saw a problem on the campus where there was a select few Twitter accounts which kind of held the campus voice. We said, everyone should be able to have that power. We gave it to everyone.
SEGALL: Fast forward a year later, the app is exploding on college campuses across the country.
TYLER DROLL, CO-FOUNDER OF YIK YAK: Basically, every campus in America.
BUFFINGTON: Vanderbilt University, someone posted about his brother getting a full body blood transfusion. 700 people showed up in the first hour to see if they were a match.
SEGALL: The downside? The down side, anonymity can lead to bullying or harassment.
(on camera): How do you guys try to help with the cyber bullying process?
BUFFINGTON: We have filters for names, for personal information. You know, just generally offensive things.
SEGALL (voice-over): Yik Yak still had growing pains. One professor complained after discovering demeaning yak during her lecture. Other students have cited online harassment.
SEGALL (on camera): For the people that are bullied on it, what is your responsibility?
BUFFINGTON: There's federal laws in place that prevent sharing of private accuser information. So we're kind of limited on what we can do there. In cases of imminent threat or harm, we work with law enforcement to do what we can.
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[11:5702:] BERMAN: All right. This morning, what a crime in London. This thing is nuts. Authorities are looking for about $300 million worth of cash, diamonds and other jewels.
BOLDUAN: This is not your basic smash and grab robbery either. Police say the thieves raided dozens of safety deposit boxes in the heart of London's jewelry district and used an elevator shaft and heavy cutting equipment to get in there in the first place.
Let's get over to Phil Black has much more of the details.
Phil, number one, there are a lot of folks who had a safe deposit box there and it probably has that company scratching its head how this could happen. What is happening there?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's pretty extraordinary, really. I guess that's what makes this such an amazing crime. Not just the location, the heart of London's diamond district, but really what is supposed to be the most secure site within it. And underground vault containing, like you say, safe deposit boxes.
The police let us in on a few more details about the methodology behind it, what they've seen inside. They say the elevator shaft was really key. They say the thieves were able to disable that second elevator on the second floor. They got through the outer door, broke through that. On the vault itself, they used a high-powered drill to actually bore into the wall, which is 2 meters thick, made of reinforced concrete. The police also described what they saw inside the vault. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL JOHNSON, DETECTIVE CHIEF INSPECTOR & LEAD INVESTIGATOR: The scene still remains chaotic down there. The vault is covered in dust and debris and the floor is strewn with discarded safety deposit boxes and numerous power tools.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: So lots of forensic evidence left behind in that vault for the police to examine closely. That's what they say they're doing. But all of that equipment, all of that effort, it suggests it was a lot of work, a lot of destruction, a lot of noise over potentially a long period of time. They're investigating a period of Thursday night to Tuesday morning. That's the Easter long weekend here. And it appears all of that destruction was carried out without anybody noticing.
BERMAN: Phil, it's hardly telling when you hear numerous power tools. This thing must have been going on for hours and hours and days with all kinds of loud banging. How is it that no one noticed?
BLACK: Well, that's the extraordinary thing. Not stealthy at all. That's why they chose that window of opportunity, if you like. That four-day period, this part of town really shuts down. None of the businesses are open. There's not a lot of residential homes here. The streets are empty. They're largely underground. But clearly, yes, a lot of noise, a lot of destruction. It seems that no one noticed -- John?
BERMAN: Phil Black --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: Noticing now. I'm going to start saying, forget saying debris, I'm now going to say debris forever.
BERMAN: Well done. Well done.
BOLDUAN: Thank you.
[12:00:06] BERMAN: One thing accomplished by that.
That's it for us today. Thanks for watching, everyone.
BOLDUAN: "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.
