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Man Arrested for Allegedly Planning Bomb Attack on Ft. Riley; Massive Tornado Hits Illinois Town; Recording Police Shooting and Beating People; Hillary Clinton's Challenges as Presidential Candidate; Police Beating in California Caught on Camera; Interview with Bill Weir. Aired 8:00-9p ET

Aired April 10, 2015 - 20:00   ET


[20:00:42] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Hey, good evening. Thanks for joining us tonight.

Breaking news. He posted on facebook that he wanted to wage jihad. Now a Kansas man is in custody, accused of trying to make it happen allegedly planning a suicide attack on American soldiers here in the United States on behalf of ISIS.

Also tonight, major damage from a massive tornado. We'll take you where it struck and meet a man who lost his home but never stopped trying to help others.

And a new view in the South Carolina police shooting. What a second dash cam video reveals.

Heard busy night ahead. We begin with the man authorities say was plotting a suicide bombing attack on Ft. Riley, Kansas, the home of the army's infantry division. His name is John T. Booker Jr. And more on alleged plot and alleged aspirations to kill for ISIS, we are joined now by justice correspondent Evan Perez.

So what's the latest?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John T. Booker also goes by the name Mohammed Abdullah Hasan, Anderson. And today, He was arrested by the FBI as he was preparing to carry out what they say was a suicide bombing at Ft. Riley.

Now, he never had any explosives. This was actually a sting operation that was orchestrated by the FBI and a couple of informants who helped him obtain what he thought were explosives, that of course never actually happened. They wanted to see if he would actually go through with that and that's why they took him all the way up to the back entrance of the base at Ft. Riley, Kansas, before arrested him today.

COOPER: And I understand it was couple of his facebook posts that prompted a tip to the FBI?

PEREZ: That's right. He actually tried to join -- he enlisted in the army last year. And in between that time and the time he was supposed to show up in April for basic training, the FBI found a couple of facebook posts which were really alarming and they went to interview him. I'll read you a couple of them. One of them says I will soon be leaving forever, so good-bye. I'm going to wage jihad and hopes that I die. A second one said getting ready to be killed in jihad is a huge adrenaline rush and he talks a lot about how he wanted to emulate Nidal Hasan who carried out the 2009 terrorist attack at Ft. Hood that killed 13 people, Anderson. That's what he wanted to do even after talking to the FBI, he still fell for this sting operation and talked to these informants to plot this attack according to the FBI.

COOPER: All right, Evan Perez, appreciate it.

Now the storms that have taken at least two lives and the one massive tornado that devastated a close knit town in rural, Illinois, two counties in the state now, disaster areas. And that tornado had wind speeds ranging between 166 and 200 miles an hour according to the latest national weather service estimate. Now take a look at what it looked like up close.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first and biggest tornado I've ever seen.


COOPER: And if you look closely, you can see huge pieces of debris being blown around like confetti that flashes on power lines, transformers shorting out, exploding as they torn into pieces and flung into the air. The force of the storm was also enough to blow a tractor trailer off the highway. Take a look at that, on to its side near the town of Rochelle.

Now, as bad as that looks, it's nothing compared to what the funnel cloud did to the town of Fairdale. Gary Tuchman reports tonight.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what's going to happen.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe and Sarah Debennadeto (ph) and their two sons left the city to moved to the dream farmhouse and barn in Fairdale, Illinois. Their barn, their cars and RV, all of it now destroyed.

When you saw the tornado coming from this direction, it was heading right to your house.


TUCHMAN: And you're thinking what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm thinking my house is going to be gone.

TUCHMAN: Inside their house, a never before used tornado shelter where they rushed as the twister approached. The sons take the inside.

To the shelter. It is tiny. It is where the whole family was when the tornado hit.

Was it scary being here not knowing what was going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We couldn't hear anything, so we didn't really know what was going on. So that was the scariest part.

TUCHMAN: Terror as her husband and sons were relatively nonchalant, initially.

[20:04:59] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was OK until I saw them running in total panic because then I knew if they're panicking, we're screwed.

TUCHMAN: They stayed in the shelter not knowing what to expect. When they climbed up the basement stairs --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came out the front door there and we couldn't believe it. We just, it looked like a war zone.

TUCHMAN: They saw their farm right away but quickly walked around the house and couldn't believe their home, only a short distance from the barn, had relatively minor damage.

To give you an idea of the power of this tornado, take a look at this. A branch that has gone through the house like a bullet. As we go inside the kitchen here, and you'll see the other end of it. It almost looks like a javelin came through and the family's already written on it, in memory of tornado, April 9th, 2015.

Farther down the street, other homeowners in Fairdale much unluckier. Other devastation after old-timers say it's the most powerful tornado they've ever seen here.

Fairdale, Illinois, is a tiny community. Only about 150 people live here. It is only a quarter square mile. A disaster like this affects everybody here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you need a hug?

TUCHMAN: Not far away, people from all over help to come a family who also suffered heavy damage at their farmhouse and barn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If somebody's in need, boy, does everybody shows up and that's the great thing about farm communities.

TUCHMAN: (INAUDIBLE) tells us they were just about to insure their barn, but hadn't done so. However, they take it in stride.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a St. Joseph's statue and what it's supposed to protect the home.

TUCHMAN: Take it in stride because they were not hurt.


COOPER: Gary Tuchman joins us now. Did people get any warnings the tornado was coming? TUCHMAN: Well, this small town of Fairdale, Anderson, does not have a

tornado siren warning system but some of the neighboring towns do. So people here say they heard the sirens on the other towns about 15 minutes before and that was some good warning for them.

In addition, people on their cell phones got messages. The messages read "warning, warning, take cover now, tornado" and that was also very important for people who lived here.

Behind me, Anderson, you can see the devastation. It's an incredible story here, you see the blue car right over there? A man within that car when the tornado destroyed his car, he survived. He's OK today. But what we can tell you is the great sadness in this area, within a mile radius of where I'm standing, two women were found and they died from their injuries. I'll tell you, that's desperately sad but last night when we heard about how strong this tornado was, we were very fearful that the death toll would be much higher.

COOPER: Look at that damage. Gary Tuchman, thank you.

Joining us now is Leo Cordut who spent hour after hour focusing not on his own problems, but on helping his neighbors instead. He and others in his neighborhood dug through wreckage and rubble even moving walls to rescue people. He joins us now.

Leo, I'm so sorry for everything you've had to go through over the last 24 hours. When the tornado hit where you were, what did it feel like? What was it like?

LEO CORDUT, HELPED NEIGHBORS: It was -- the winds were horrible. It looked like a giant wall coming before we even really realized that it was a tornado.

COOPER: And I understand as you saw it coming toward you, you shouted for your mom and your nephew to get into the basement.

CORDUT: Correct. I told them to run into the basement because it was, the tornado was coming and as they ran in, I followed behind as other neighbors ran in also. We took shelter down in the basement as my family got to the basement, I checked for the cats and could not find them. So I proceed into the basement as I opened the door to the back of the house, it was as if somebody had had a giant vacuum cleaner and was trying to suck the air out. Took my breath away and I slammed the door, took off down into the basement.

COOPER: It really took your breath away. I mean you're talking literally.

CORDUT: Yes. Literally, I couldn't catch my breath as the tornado got closer and closer. And you could start to see the debris flying everywhere and I knew I had to get downstairs to shelter.

COOPER: And when it was over and you were finally out of the basement, what did you see?

CORDUT: As I came out of the basement and to the kitchen, all I could do was yell down to my two nephews and my mom and told them not to come up. That it's a horrible scene, and as I knew that they were OK, I proceeded to go out of the front of the house to check on the neighborhood and as I came out with my neighbors, we could hear all of our neighbors and friends screaming for help. And natural instinct was to help everybody knowing that my loved ones were OK. Need to help the friends and the neighborhood.

[20:10:09] PEREZ: And how are your friends or family? I mean, I know two people were lost.

CORDUT: Correct. As far as I know, who I talked to in the neighborhood, everybody is doing well. We're all mourning over the loss of two brave people. But we're all being strong and keeping our prayers up. And thanks to the fire department, local police, and all the people that has donated to make all this possible for all of us, we're all grateful and very well blessed.

COOPER: Well, it's just remarkable, I mean, that there weren't more casualties and that's something to be grateful for as you mourn the loss of two people, a lot of the people in the community know. And for your neighbors, I know you were trying to help others when so much destruction took place in your own life. Leo, thank you for being with us. I appreciate it.

CORDUT: Thank you.

COOPER: Leo Cardut. Thanks.

We want to wish, obviously, everybody in that community our best and our thoughts and our prayers are with them.

Coming up next, we have breaking news in South Carolina. The police shooting including what to make of a new dash cam video showing the scene.

And later, we learned that Hillary Clinton is about to announce that she's running again for president. We have new polling on whether Democrats think she needs the competition. Just one of the angles we are looking at when we continue.


[20:15:13] COOPER: Breaking news tonight out of North Charleston, South Carolina, involving the passenger who was with Walter Scott during the traffic stop that ended with Mr. Scott dead on the ground with five police bullet wounds in his back and head. He will be buried tomorrow.

Exactly one week after officer Michael Slager fired those shots, eight in all at the fleeing Scott. The killing caught on video, of course, by young man named Feidin Santana who happened to be nearby. Mr. Slager is already in jail on murder charges who ever local grand jury may also take up the case early next month just the latest in a chain of events many simply don't believe would have happened had this video not existed. That said, the video doesn't answer all questions including why Mr. Scott ran and who this passenger was. There is also this, another angle to the shooting scene. Aftermath

caught on the dash cam of another North Charleston squad car. It is a very brief glimpse, we've slowed it down. It appears to show the police on the right standing over something. We don't know precisely what.

Martin Savidge joins us now from North Charleston with more on today's developments.

You've been investigating the passenger in the car with Walter Scott. What have you learned?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, this mystery passenger is to key to the investigation because just as you pointed out, he is the one seated right beside Walter Scott just before the man takes off and runs. So he would know possibly what Scott was thinking, what he was fearful of.

The authorities and I'm talking about the state authorities, they apparently have announced that they interviewed that mystery passenger today. They wouldn't say what was discussed. It's clear that they're talking about the investigation. And they also say that that mystery passenger still doesn't want to be identified in any way. Once he gave his testimony, he's free to go. He is not charged with everything.

We have looked all over for him. The family members of the Scott family say they don't know who he is. Their attorneys don't know who he is. Somebody suggested he was a person who Scott worked with. So we went to where Scott used to work, talked to supervisors and they say, no, it was no one from there. So it's truly a mystery. The family wants to know but this person appears tonight to once again have disappeared.

COOPER: Yes. Most attorneys I have talked to say it doesn't really matter ultimately even why he ran. What really matters is what happened from the time the taser that Mr. Scott was tasered and from the time he was found dead on the ground with police officer, perhaps planting something nearby him.

I understand you have some new information on Officer Slager today and also, on Walter Scott the day before he died.

SAVIDGE: A couple of interesting things. You know, we were talking with the local sheriff. He's in charge of the dissension center where former Officer Slager is being held. I said, you know, is he in isolation? He said definitely. I mean, anybody who is law enforcement ends up on the wrong side of the law potentially a target on the inside of the wall. So he is isolated from the general population. I said what about a suicide watch? They said, no. We don't really call it that. What they are monitoring is mental well being and guards are circulating past his cell more frequently.

As to Scott, it really looked like life was beginning turning around for him. He has been -unemployed for a long time but his supervisors were - he was temporarily working said they we liked him and it looked like he possibly was going to get a permanent job.

On top of that, he gets this new car. Not new but new to him and in fact the supervisors said he showed up last Friday. He was proud of it. He gave people a ride but, you know, you get the sense that life was finally turning for him. Unfortunately that was the day before he died.

COOPER: I want to go back to the dash cam video. Walter Scott actually opens his door and holds something in his right hand for the officer before being told by Officer Slager to get back into his car. Do we know what that was?

SAVIDGE: Yes. That struck me too. I looked at that and said, what is going on here? It appears and I talked to the attorneys and they believe that what is happening is that he found something the officer had requested. The officer had already retreated back to his car. So like any of us, we might be nervous with, I forgot. And he seems to get out of the car, hold it up and say like, I've got it. But the officer shouts and said get back in the car.

You want to know because a few seconds later, he bolts and runs and it all goes back to why. Now you say, maybe it doesn't matter in the full extent. It matters to the family to understand why.

COOPER: They obviously want to know all the details as they can.

Martin Savidge, thank you.

Joining us now, attorney and former South Carolina state representative Bakari Sellers, also CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos and former NYPD detective Harry Houck.

Mark, let me start with you. You're a defense attorney. If -- from the defense standpoint in this case, the defense of this police officer, does what happened in that vehicle with the stop, does any of that matter or is all that really matters, frankly for both sides, prosecution and defense, what happened from the time the taser was fired to the time that Mr. Scott was shot and killed?

[20:20:00] MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, all that really should matter r is what happened between the time that the taser was fired and when he was executed. But I would imagine that his lawyer will attempt to say that between the time that there was the video running on the stop on the dash cam video and the time when the person who was a percipient witness, filmed it to something transpired. They will do usually, what cops do, they will just create some kind of false scenario and create a diversion, so to speak, in order to try to divert the jury's attention from what really happened here which was basically an assassination.

COOPER: Harry, in looking at the dash cam video, as a police officer, you actually said that Slager shouldn't have even run after Mr. Scott.

HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Right, exactly. When you pull a car like that over and there's two people in the car, and one man runs out, you don't chase that man because that second person could come out and put a bullet in your back.

Now, this officer didn't know what he had at the time, so what I would have done and most officers should do especially by themselves is to let the guy run, all right, and take care of the guy on the passenger side. Get him out of the vehicle, I would have probably went out with my gun drawn also because it's a very suspicious thing going on right here. Pull him out of the car, identify him and then find out what kind of conversation did they have before the other guy ran out. Where are you coming from, the back-up, we got a second guy that's fleet.

COOPER: So you would call for back-up or call for back-up and let them know that there's a guy on the run.

HOUCK: Exactly.

COOPER: Bakari, I want to ask you about the grand jury process. How does it work? I mean, is it possible that Officer Slager might not be indicted?

BAKARI SELLERS, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, it is possible, Anderson, but that is a very rare and unlikely scenario to play out. Here in South Carolina, after each charge by the solicitor, the solicitor then does have to take this charge in front of a grand jury. And usually that just means that the arresting officer sits in front of those 12 grand jurors and they will have to either give it a no bill or bring it forward.

And we truly believe it's going to move forward, but I must also say that this journey for justice is still a long way from being over. In South Carolina, we have had officers who have been arrested. But we haven't had any officers that have been convicted. So here in this community, we're very excited about this quest for justice but also understand it's not over.

COOPER: Well. Bakari, let's drill down on that a little bit on that because, you know, when I was there the other day, the state newspaper did an analysis of over the last five years. There were some more than 200, I think it might have been 206 discharge of weapons by police officers in South Carolina. Not a single one, there were some indictments against some officers, but there was never any conviction as you just said. What does that tell you? And if that's a problem, what needs to change? And how should it change?

SELLERS: Well, you know, that's what I tell most people when they come down to South Carolina and throughout the country. In fact, in north Augustine, we just had another officer arrested this week for murder of an African-American last year. Seven months ago we actually had an officer pull his weapon out when a young man was reaching for his wallet and shot at him six times hitting him once.

Dates back to 1968 my father actually shot along with 27 others and three were killed by the officer in the state troopers and the arms with massacre. Here in South Carolina, we're used to African-American male blood running through the soil of this great state. I mean, this has to stop. And so, we're not jaded and we don't have a low bar for justice and

just say that an arrest or officer losing his job is what we're here for. Our quest is a conviction. And we have to do everything we can to get that because in South Carolina right now, officers must have really good attorneys because they haven't been convicted one time.

COOPER: So Bakari, you're saying that the review process, I mean, we're not talking about this case. We're talking about the bigger picture here. That there needs to be a sort of independent review process, is that one step you'd like to see?

SELLERS: There has to be an individual or independent review process. Not only do there have to be body cameras so we know what goes on. It protects the individuals and it protects the officers, but there has to be this independent review process.

You stated earlier and one of the other facts that you had to state is that -- I mean, the usage of deadly force in South Carolina, 70 of those individuals were African-Americans. And again, we've actually had five that were arrested, five that were indicted and we haven't had a single one that was convicted.

So I know the country is excited. I know people are excited that there was an arrest. I know they say the mayor moved quickly by charging them and the solicitor moved quickly by charging them, but we are so far away from the end of this your knee. In fact, we're just beginning.

COOPER: And Mark, is that in part juries, more often than not, give the benefit to the police officer?

GERAGOS: First of all, the system is gamed, if you will. The prosecutors, generally, are working hand and glove with the cops. So the last thing they want to do is convict the cops. They understand that. The judges, the last thing they want to do is preside over something where the cop gets convicted and upset the cops' union or the correctional officer union or any other thing. I said it before, it's the third rail. This idea that law enforcement basically has gamed the criminal justice system and especially when it comes to people of color.

[20:25:28] COOPER: We've got to leave it there.

Mark Geragos, Harry Houck, Bakari Sellers, thank you so much for being on.

Just ahead, how cell phones video change the way we see police shootings. Witnesses are more likely than ever to turn their cameras on.


[20:29:37] COOPER: Well, Feidin Santana, the bystander who witnessed Walter Scott's killing had the courage to turn his cell phone camera on and keep it running as former officer Michael Slager fired the deadly shots. Now, as you know, the video, he recorded this case on its head. It is

a stark example of how technology has empowered bystanders who aren't just standing by anymore. As in the case of Scott's killing, the images capture that sometimes extremely graphic, we want to warn you so as you are about to see.

He is Randi Kaye.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Remember when scenes like this were shocking?

<20:30:02> That's Rodney King being beaten by police in Los Angeles following a high-speed chase. It was 1991 when videotaping police action was rare. Fast forward about 25 years and this is now the norm.


ERIC GARNER: Don't touch me. Don't touch me.


KAYE: Eric Garner, a father of six in a choke hold on a Brooklyn Street accused of illegally selling cigarettes. The bystander's cell phone camera even fixed up Garner gasping for air.


GARNER: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.


KAYE: Garner was pronounced dead at the hospital. Officer Daniel Pantaleo with his arm around Garner's neck is now on modified assignment awaiting a federal investigation. In St. Louis last August, cellphone video captured police shooting dead a 25-year-old man holding a knife.





KAYE: That case is under review. Michael Brown shooting in August wasn't caught on a cell phone camera, but his body in the street was. So were protests and police reaction.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your name, sir?



KAYE: Some officers react negatively once they realize they're being recorded.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, hold on. I have a constitutional right to record what's going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're recording.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're interfering with that by putting your hands on my camera.

Take your hands away from my camera, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you can't do that. You can't do that. Massachusetts, it's the law.


KAYE: In New Jersey after a police K 9 attacked a suspect already on the ground, police tried this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need your information. I'm going to take it from you.

KAYE: In fact, police have no right to take your phone. One lawyer who studies this issue told us recording anything in public is a First Amendment right. And any officer who says turn off the camera is violating that federal right.

Which may explain why more police officers now favor wearing a body camera. In Dallas last June, an officer was wearing one when he and his partner shot and killed a mentally ill man holding a screwdriver.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You drop that for me. You drop that for me.






Oh, you killed my child! Oh, they killed my child.


KAYE: The officer say the man lunged and shot him five times. This body cam video shows the officer's side of the story instead of a stranger's cell phone. Which may not capture an event from the very beginning. Even dash cam video in this case may not have been enough to prove the officers acted appropriately since their cars were parked in the street. The officers are still working, awaiting word from the Dallas County district attorney. So next time a police officer is caught on cell phone video doing something like this ...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to open the door?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say somebody is not going to hurt you? People are being shot by the police.



KAYE: He may also be recording you recording him. Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.


COOPER: Just ahead -- we finally know when Hillary Clinton plans to announce her second presidential run. She seems to be taking a different tactic this time. We'll get a panel's tike on that. Plus, outrage over video showing ten sheriff deputies beating a suspect after a three hour long chase through the desert.


COOPER: Well, on Sunday, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is expected to make official what's been widely seen as a forgone conclusion. She's making a second run for the White House. Now, according to sources, she'll announce her candidacy on social media in a video. No big rally this time. No full on fanfare. After jumping into the race, she'll hit the campaign trail in two early primary states, in Iowa and New Hampshire. Let's talk about it with CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, also chief national correspondent John King who joins us from Washington. So, Jeff, what is the latest you are hearing about how she is doing this and why she is doing it this way?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, she is doing it by social media, a tweet, a film that's already been recorded and edited, she is doing it first and foremost for control. She wants to control her message and talk about what she wants to bring to this campaign. We've talked a lot about is she going to get in or not, we haven't heard what she's running on. So, she's going to outline that, income inequality a central part of this, trying to help the next generation, but then she's going to Iowa and New Hampshire next week.

But again, like you said, no big rally. She's going to do small, small, small downsized events to look make it look like she has a connection and she's trying to build a connection with voters.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I talked to someone in the campaign who said to me, we don't need to do shock and awe. Everybody knows who Hillary Clinton is. Big rallies are not her best thing. What they want to do is reintroduce her in a kind of one on one setting. And if you're looking at your device or your computer, you know, it is more personal. They believe that Sunday afternoon, Sunday evening is a big time when people sort of catch up on their social media and she'll have that new cycle.

COOPER: John, to Gloria's point, it will be interesting to see if she can be reintroduced, because as Gloria said, everybody kind of knows who she is and probably has an opinion about her one way or the other and you think back to 2007, that era of inevitability surrounding Hillary Clinton's primary campaign and then Obama came along. Is the Clinton camp worried something similar could happen? Is there someone else out there?

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A little bit, but not nearly as much. Remember the 2008 feel, you had then Senator Barack Obama who was making a big national name for himself. You had now vice president then Senator Joe Biden. You had John Edwards, who'd been a vice presidential nominee. You had Chris Dodd, another member of the United States Senate. It was a much more credible, much more seasoned Democratic field. Frankly, the Hillary Clinton campaign is not that worried about the former Maryland governor Martin O'Malley, they are not that worried about Bernie Sanders, the Senator from Vermont or former Senator Jim Webb. Former Rhode Island governor Lincoln Chafey, once a Republican, then an Independent. Now, he's a Democrat. He says he may run.

Look, if you look at our latest poll, Anderson, she's at 62 percent among Democrats. Closest to her is Joe Biden. He's 47 points behind her. He's not going to run. He hasn't said that yet. But he is not going to run. Elizabeth Warren is 52 points behind her. She's not going to run. Inside the Clinton campaign, they think that this is hers to lose, that if she makes a mistake and creates an opening, then who knows but she has to make that mistake first.


KING: That's why, as Jeff said, they want caution and control.

BORGER: No, there's some people who are worried she doesn't have anyone running against her. Because ...

COOPER: To make her a better candidate.

BORGER: A, to make her a better candidate and b, not to look so inevitable. I mean inevitability didn't get her anywhere last time. For not worth or better this time. She has an 86 percent approval rating in the Democratic Party. But when you're not really running against somebody, you don't test yourself in a lot of ways.

ZELENY: But she's running against herself, essentially.

BORGER: Right. Oh, absolutely.

ZELENY: She's fighting against that old shadow that's hanging over her campaign.

BORGER: That's a problem.

ZELENY: And that is her biggest competition.

COOPER: Is it clear that she has a fire in her belly for this? I mean because that's what a lot of people have sort of said, that there's this air of inevitability, but does she really want it and willing to do what's necessary? I mean, it's a long slob from here to there.

BORGER: I've done a bunch of reporting talking to her friends about this, people who know her pretty well and I think I came away with thinking that there's a tug of history here for her. That obviously being the first woman president is a big tug. There's a network that wants her to run. Her husband really wants her to run. And she has in a way been preparing her whole life for this, so there was a sense of how could she not do it at this moment, particularly since the Democrats have basically parted the waters for her, right?

COOPER: But John, I mean that doesn't - it still doesn't get to the idea of does she have a burning desire to do this, to run, to campaign, because there are some people who love to campaign. I don't know, does she?

KING: She doesn't like campaigning. And that's part of the problem. She's a very talented person. She does not have her husband or President Obama's political gifts on the campaign trail. And that's one of the key things in any politician, any politician especially, but even if somebody like Hillary Clinton who we think we know, we think we have seen so often. You always see in the next campaign, what have they learned, how do they grow, are they capable of being a little bit different? You are who you are at a certain point of your life, and she's who she is, but what did she learn from 2008? Will she interact with voters more? Will she have a better relationship with the media? That's one thing she says is a priority. Forget about that for a minute. The challenge is to go out and say why. Don't say I was the first lady of Arkansas, the I was the first lady of the United States, I was a senator, I was the Secretary of State. Say why you want to be president. That's her biggest challenge looking forward. Not in the rearview mirror.

Her resume is impressive, there's no question about that. Yes, people think they know her, they want to use these early stages to reintroduce parts of her life that some of us might not remember, or might not know as much. But the biggest challenge is, to talk about the economy and say why it would be different if you made her a president, to talk about the world, defend her record as secretary of state, but then try to look around the corner. Because people will say and the Republicans will say she's the past. Some of the Democrats running against her might gently say that she's the past. Her challenge is to prove she's about the future. COOPER: And Jeff, do we know what Bill Clinton's role is going to be?

Because clearly, you know, he played a very big role the last time around for better or worse.

ZELENY: He did. He played a very big role and usually for worse.


ZELENY: He was her defender, but it certainly came back to haunt him. At the very beginning, she's going to be on her own. She's not going to have him at any of these rallies. I'm told he could join by summer, but he has a very important role that's helping fund raise and he's her top strategist behind the scenes. One key difference this time, though, she's surrounded by a whole different set of people. A lot of them are Obama advisors. So, that to me makes clear that she knows that she needs to have a different kind of campaign.

BORGER: They want him doing strategy inside because they want to be able to sort of control him and whereas she might do the one on one sessions, he could do big events because he's really good at that.

COOPER: Do you think they are going to control Bill Clinton?


COOPER: We'll see. Fascinating. Gloria Borger.

BORGER: They're going to try.

COOPER: Jeff Zeleny, John King. Thank you very much.

Up next tonight, still a lot to talk about. A wild police chase. The suspect on horseback caught on camera. Also caught on camera, the tasing and beating that followed and now the consequences. We've learned what is happening to some of the sheriff's deputies who were involved, plus a guard fatally shot at the U.S. Census Bureau headquarters. We were on the air when it broke last night. New details on the suspect and the crime when we continue.


COOPER: Tonight, another video sparking outrage over police tactics. This time in California. The video shot by a news helicopter shows the deputies pummeling a suspect as he lies on the ground. Hours earlier, they had gone to his house with a search warrant. He fled, setting off one of the strangest police chases that we've seen. Stephanie Elam takes us through it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here's your pursuit.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a police chase that looks like something out of the wild west.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've got this guy on a stolen horse. ELAM: 30-year old Francis Pusok attempting to outrun law enforcement

on the back of a stolen horse in a rural part of San Bernardino County. A KNBC helicopter was recording as the bizarre chase ends when the horse bucks the suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suspect being tased.

ELAM: And sheriff's deputies attempt to tase him. Then as deputies get closer, Pusok appears to surrender lying face down on the ground before putting his hands behind his back. That doesn't stop the officers from mobbing around Pusok, kicking him in the groin and in the head before kneeing him and landing punch after punch on his body. It's a beating that lasts about two minutes with ten officers involved. All of whom are now on paid administrative leave.

JIM TERRELL, FAMILY ATTORNEY: Somebody should go to prison over this. What I saw on the television was thugs beating up my client. That's what I saw. And these questions about what was he doing? What did they do? This is far worse than Rodney King.

ELAM: San Bernardino Sheriff John McMahon has ordered an immediate internal investigation. The specialized investigation detail is also conducting a criminal investigation as well.

SHERIFF JOHN MCMAHON, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY, CALIF.: I am disturbed and troubled by what I see in the video. It does not appear to be in line with our policies and procedures, at least a portion of it. I ask that you allow us to conduct that investigation and I assure you if there's criminal wrongdoing on the part of any of our deputy sheriffs or any policy violations, we will take action.

ELAM: The sheriff's department says deputies were attempting to serve Pusok with the search warrant related to an identity theft investigation. When he first fled in the car, then abandoned it, and ran into the desert where he stole a horse and took off.


ELAM: In total, a chase that went on for some three hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going to stand here and say that he's perfect, because who is?

ELAM: Pusok's girlfriend of 13 years believes the officers went too far.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They beat the crap out of him and now they are trying to do everything that they can to avoid them being in any trouble.

ELAM: In trouble in an era where police tactics are under intense public scrutiny.


COOPER: And Stephanie joins us now. Do we have any update on this guy's condition?

ELAM: Well, what we know, Anderson, is that he did have some cuts and bruises, he was taken to the hospital and then after that was placed in custody where he remains right now.

COOPER: What's amazing is that they were punching this guy in full view of a helicopter, a news helicopter which they must have known was hovering right above them. Did any of the deputies actually have body cameras, do we know?

ELAM: Yeah, it's pretty phenomenal that they didn't think about that angle too when you watch it. What we understand from the sheriff's department is that they had audio recorders, but that's part of the investigation. The sheriff saying that he has not seen that or heard them yet. So we haven't heard that part of it, but it will be interesting to see from the ground level. The other thing I can tell you tonight, Anderson, that's new, is that the FBI is launching an investigation to see if Pusok's civil rights were violated during this whole arrest that we saw captured on that film yesterday.

COOPER: All right, Stephanie Elam, I appreciate the reporting. There is a lot more happening tonight. Our Randi Kaye has a "360" bulletin. Randi?

KAYE: Anderson, authorities say the man who fatally shot a guard at the U.S. Census Bureau headquarters in Maryland last night was later wounded in a gun battle with D.C. police. According to investigators, the suspect kidnapped a woman. She was not wounded in the incident

Lauren Hill who inspired the world by playing college basketball, even with an inoperable brain tumor has died at the age of 19. In the last month of her life, she helped raise $1.4 million for pediatric cancer research. Lauren's coach spoke at a prayer service honoring her today on the Mt. Saint Joseph University campus.


DAN BENJAMIN, LAUREN HILL'S BASKETBALL COACH: We lost the player. We lost a friend. A daughter. And we lost an unselfish angel.


KAYE: President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama reported an income of just over $477,000 on their 2014 federal tax return. They paid more than $93,000 in taxes. That includes the cost of some of the president's policies, such as higher tax rates on wages for top earners. The Obamas also donated about $70,000 to charities last year.

And instead of kissing babies, Vice President Joe Biden is stealing their pacifiers and using them. The little guy is the grandson of former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg there. He didn't seem to mind very much, Anderson.

COOPER: Randi, thank you very much. Up next, a frozen wonderland. Bill Weir takes us to the French Alps.

That's a preview of the season finale, the wonder list when we come back.


COOPER: Well, this Sunday night on CNN, don't miss the two-part season finale of "The Wonder List." As you probably know, this is a great new show that's been on CNN. Bill Weir takes us to soaring heights in the French Alps, where the glaciers are melting and the Florida's best known wetlands, the Everglades where half of it is dead and another part of it is on life-support. Bill joins me now with more on his adventures. Two very contrasting parts of the world and yet both see major changes.

BILL WEIR, "WONDER LIST" HOST: Exactly. And I wish I could say we planned it this way. It was a bit of logistics but I think it's poetic that whether we are talking about disappearing tigers in India or tortoises in the Galapagos. None of that matters, if we don't address the big kahuna, which is climate change, and I've read countless sort of scientific warnings about disappearing ice around the world, I wanted to see it through the eyes of people who really know their ice, mountaineers, climbers, skiers who are watching it go away. They wonder if that'll be the last generation there. And also talk to some climate change skeptics in a big conference at Las Vegas to understand them better as well, but then we end up in the Everglades, which is related in a way when it comes to sea level rise as well, those are some of the most vulnerable neighborhoods in America, but the Everglades is also a great example of when man wakes up and realizes you can't trash entire ecosystems with impunity. You know, we dug up the Everglades, we drained the swamp in the '50s to build paradise and then about the '90s we realize, uh-oh, there can be no paradise, it could be no Florida without those Glades, without that diversity. Without the fresh water underneath them.

COOPER: And I mean, there are some pretty interesting creatures in the Everglades.

WEIR: Yes.

COOPER: Did you come in contact with them?

WEIR: We did, yeah, we went slogging with their max stone, one of the best wildlife photographers. He goes in there barefoot.

COOPER: Are you serious?

WEIR: Seriously. You've got to be kidding.

COOPER: There's snakes and ...

WEIR: There's snakes, and there's gators, and all kinds of stuff. He's like no, trust me, they don't want to waste their body heat because they know they can't swallow you. You are too big. And so he kind of put my fears to rest. But ...

COOPER: I don't know. The Nile crocodiles kill like 300 people in years. So, I don't know about ...

WEIR: That's true.

COOPER: So, I don't know about ...

WEIR: Crocs are a little more aggressive, but everybody is in one place that has both. So actually saw one croc. He was sleeping.

COOPER: Well, that's ...

WEIR: But yeah, no close calls. Not even any mosquitos. We were there at the right time.

COOPER: Is it right?

WEIR: Yeah.

COOPER: I mean you traveled some amazing places and I mean just the images on this series have been incredible. And just so startling. Do you - when you close your eyes at night, is there one - are there one or two places that really stay with you?

WEIR: Oh, absolutely. They are all doing away, but Vanuatu is so amazing. Not just because the beauty of the place, but the friends we made and then what happened with the cyclones, I feel a bond there as well. The animals in Galapagos, we went to islands where people just ...

COOPER: That must be amazing.

WEIR: Oh, incredible. Just surrounded by marina iguanas and sea lions. And you realize this is like going back 50,000 years. But the Alps for me is one of my favorite episodes because I've got to climb glaciers. I love sort of that, you know, Alpine lifestyle and then the message of this one. You know, this is a huge story that has become so politicized in this country that we avoid it sometimes, especially in the media. We want to just take it head on and talk about the fact that these things are going away, but skeptics are not. And how that has to change if there's going to be anything according to the science.

COOPER: Well it's a great series. And so, it's been such a joy to watch and I can't wait to watch this.

WEIR: It means so much coming from you, man. Thank you.

COOPER: I appreciate it. You can catch the 2 hour season finale of "The Wonder List" this Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.


COOPER: That does it for us. I hope you have a great weekend. "Finding Jesus, Faith, Fact, Forgery" starts now.