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Newspaper Reports Training Records for Robert Bates Falsified; Former Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee May Run for President; Interview with Lincoln Chaffee; Aaron Hernandez Convicted of First Degree Murder; National Guard Members Busted in Weapons Sting. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 16, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[08:00:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shot him. I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another report calls into question as to whether Robert Bates should have ever been carrying a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murder in the first degree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sentenced to life without parole.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aaron Hernandez is a murdering thug.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I forgive the hands of the people that had a hand in my son's murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we can all stand here and say we made the right decision.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ISIS advancing into Ramadi. Thousands of refugees fleeing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two active members of the army National Guard allegedly trying to sell guns, ammunition, and body armor to Mexican drug cartels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten firearms, 4,000 round of ammunition, 190 high- capacity magazines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, April 16, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn and Michaela are off. Poppy Harlow, J.B. here for us. And we have breaking news for you. The Tulsa police story just took a major turn. "The Tulsa World" newspaper is reporting supervisors were told to falsify the training records of Robert Bates. That's the 73-year-old reserve deputy charged with manslaughter for the shooting death of an unarmed man fleeing from police.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Now, CNN has obtained those training records as the Tulsa sheriff's office puts its entire deputy program, the entire program, under a close eye, under scrutiny. Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Ryan Young who is tracking the details for us this morning. What do we know at this hour, because this is certainly a big shift with the whole program under review?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. A lot of questions about this case, and in fact we talked about this just yesterday, the idea Roberts Bates donated so much to that sheriff's office, in fact five cars and also money to the reelection campaign. But those training hours are under question right now. In fact the newspaper "Tulsa World" is reporting that some supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office were told to falsify the training records for Bates. "Tulsa World" reports that there were supervisors reassigned after refusing to sign the training documents. The report does not say who asked the supervisors to allegedly falsify the records. The paper said the false records gives Bates credit for failed training he never completed and firearms certifications he should have not gotten.

Now, records show in the last seven years, Bates have taken a variety of courses, everything from weapons training, including glock, Taser, and rock river training. Now, all of this has been detailed in the report, but when you watch the video and see the fact that he said, Taser, Taser, and instead reached for a gun, those training questions were brought up by the attorney, and now with this report, this entire program has been put into question. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Ryan. And the question now becomes, OK, if the whole program is under review, who is doing that review? In the interest of balance here, we invited the Tulsa sheriff's office to come on this morning. They declined. They do call "The Tulsa World" report unsubstantiated and deceptive. We also had Bates' lawyer on the show and he cited Bates extensive education when he was on the show. Earlier this morning we spoke to the reporters involved, Dylan Goforth and Ziva Branstetter. They're reporters for "Tulsa World." They broke the story. Here's what they say.

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ZIVA BRANSTETTER, "TULSA WORLD": You would think the sheriff's office if in fact there has been no pressure applied, no falsification of records, that they would be forthcoming with these documents. We certainly hope they are. We've asked for them. They said that they don't believe they're public records. There are hundreds of hours that may have been falsified, at least three supervisors that our sources said were transferred, were disciplined because they refused to sign off on training that was never records, including weapons training.

CUOMO: The trainers who said we got pressured at they moved us, was that recently or was that back when he was originally trying to get on as a deputy? BRANSTETTER: It was back when he was trying to get on as a deputy.

He had already been accepted in the program. Then there was the falsification of the field training records initially, then the handgun qualification records after that is what we understand. So it was back several years ago, and then ever since then he was named reserve deputy of the year in 2011. Ever since then he has been going on he said 100 or so undercover operations.

CUOMO: Do you know why he was reserve deputy of the year? Did he do anything in the field, any kind of exemplary or something like that?

BRANSTETTER: He may have. We don't have any records of that. We do know that during that time, a year or two before that, and at that time he had given the undercover unit five automobiles, donated those automobiles to the unit, as well as surveillance equipment.

CUOMO: So in terms of motivation here, Dylan, your sources on this point, are they telling you that this was about trying to get the sheriff's pal certified to do what he wanted? What do they think was going on here?

[08:05:05] DYLAN GOFORTH, "TULSA WORLD": That has been the allegation since they brought us his name originally, was that this was just someone who -- the sheriff had called him a long-time friend that he had taken on fishing trips, it was someone that the sheriff liked, and that they wanted him to be able to do what he wanted to do.

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HARLOW: All right, also what we are following this morning, the politics, did the White House cave on the Iran nuclear bill? That is a big question this morning after members of Congress worked out a deal or framework of a deal. Will the deal hammered out in Switzerland live to see the light of day. Let's get straight to CNN's White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski tracking the latest. What are you hearing this morning there?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, for weeks we have been hearing the White House issue these very strong veto threats against any Congressional interference in the Iran deals. And now that it gets to a point where the White House says, OK, yes, this bill is something we can sign, the reaction by many was what? What happened? The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee says, look, it was simply that the White House was never going to be get enough votes on its side to beat a veto override.

But this is a compromise, and it does work both ways. The bill, after all, was changed so as to get more Democrats onboard. And the White House is framing it as it's not an up or down vote simply on the Iran deal anymore, that it's essentially a vote on whether or not to remove sanctions that Congress imposed in the first place. We knew that Congress could do that anyway, right.

Well, where it gets into a gray area is you could say, well, couldn't you see this sanctions vote as effectively an up or down vote on the Iran deal? Iran is certainly seeing it that way. They have already put out information saying there's not going to be any deal unless all sanctions are removed. And they are putting out the revisions to the deal as it stands that are certainly going to be unacceptable to the west. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Michelle, thank you so much. This is one big issue that whoever the next president is is going to have to deal with, and on the Republican side you have plenty of names. On the Democrat side you have only one, right? Wrong. Lincoln Chafee joins us right now. He was a former senator and governor from Rhode Island, and he is weighing a run for president. It's good to have you with us, governor.

LINCOLN CHAFEE, (D) FORMER RHODE ISLAND GOVERNOR: Thank you very much for having me on the show.

CUOMO: So let's ask the obvious question. Do you think you can beat Hillary Clinton, and why?

CHAFEE: I have been in 12 elections in my career over 30 years, and I have gotten into every one expecting to win. I've won 10 of the 12, but you always get in expecting to win. And elections should be about choices. And so you said on the Republican side there seem to be a lot of choices. There should be choices on the Democratic side also.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Here's the thing. You were actually a big supporter. You went out on a limb supporting President Obama when he was running for reelection, at the time you were an independent. I think you supported him as a Republican or at least considered it as a Republican.

CHAFEE: No, as an independent.

BERMAN: OK, as an independent.

But look, so a lot of people are looking at Hillary Clinton right now as a third term for President Obama. You by exploring a run are not so indirectly saying, no, no, no, she does not represent the third term here. Why not?

CHAFEE: Don't forget that the reason -- probably the biggest reason that Senator Obama at the time defeated Hillary Clinton in '08 was because of the Iraq War vote. That was the issue. And that's my big issue here, because we are dealing with ramifications of that huge mistake that Senator Clinton made in 2002, which I did not make but we live with it today. Everyone says, that's 12 years ago, but we live with it today, even news today what's happening in Ramadi with ISIS. And so it's a huge and bad decision, and so I don't consider it a third term for President Obama at all. Very, very difficult.

CUOMO: Now, when you are looking at the field, you also have an interesting connection here. You were in boarding school with Jeb Bush, is that right?

CHAFEE: Yes.

CUOMO: So do you believe he would be a better president than Hillary Clinton?

CHAFEE: I am running my own race on the Democratic side and I will let the Republicans sort out their primary.

BERMAN: Here's the thing, you actually are running a race, though, on the Democratic side. You haven't declared yet. Nobody has declared but Hillary on the Democratic side. But the other folks who are considering a run -- Bernie Sanders, Jim Webb, Martin O'Malley, nobody is taking on Hillary Clinton. No one has gone out nearly as far as you have gone out to criticize her. And you are criticizing her, saying that a vote that she took in the Senate when you were in the Senate she essentially disqualifying for the Democratic nomination.

CHAFEE: Yes, that's why I'm running, because I feel strongly about where we're going as a country, so it's not only that vote but also her actions of secretary of state, and where we're going --

BERMAN: What did she do wrong?

CHAFEE: First of all, start with Russia. Right in the early days of her tenure as secretary of state they tried to restart with Russia and she presented the Russia foreign minister with the restart button, but they got the Russian word wrong. Instead the Russians looked at it and said this means "overcharge." It was an insult.

CUOMO: Isn't that a little penny-ante, though? The restart was the right move or the wrong move?

CHAFEE: It the right move to restart, but you have to get the word right. They insulted the Russians right off the bat. And we live with the ramifications again today. Look at what is happening with Putin and Russia, Ukraine, and selling arms to Iran. It all could have started with that diplomatic mistake, getting the word wrong.

[08:10:16] And also as secretary of state, she referred to the elected leader of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez at the time, as a dictator, and that just sets back the relations with an important country, an oil-rich country. So it's a succession of mistakes. Mistakes on the Iraq war vote, her tenure as secretary of state. We need a new direction, fresh ideas for where we're going as a country.

BERMAN: It does seem like you have really gone through her record with a fine tooth comb here looking for specific examples. What about the now, what about the e-mails, what about the funds for the Clinton Global Initiative, and what level of concern is this to you?

CHAFEE: Absolutely, especially the funds coming into the Clinton, funds from other countries, while she is secretary of state. Huge amounts of money coming from these foreign countries into the Clinton fund while she is secretary of state.

BERMAN: Did they change the rules while she was secretary and then afterwards start accepting from other countries like Saudi Arabia, and whatnot?

CHAFEE: Yes, and Libya. I don't know when they changed the rules, John.

CUOMO: Important stuff to know, though, governor, but if you are going to go after Hillary Clinton on the basis of basically painting a character picture of her --

CHAFEE: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Then you have to be right about it because that is a pretty big hammer to swing, especially if you're not going to say I have the better ideas. You have to pick a tack, either you are going after her and saying she is not good enough, but you are also going to have to say at some point why you are better?

CHAFEE: Yes, and I feel strongly my record as mayor, as a governor, as a United States senator is open to scrutiny, and I have a strong record of standing up for the people and being a peacemaker with unions, and as a senator dealing with other countries on the Foreign Relations Committee. And look for a new direction and fresh ideas for America, I firmly believe, for our children and grandchildren.

BERMAN: You have a unique perspective. You have been a Republican, you were an independent, you were a Democrat. There's so much gridlock in Washington and around the country right now, and you have had a perspective from every different angle. Who is the most to blame? Who needs to do more to correct their actions here to fix this problem?

CHAFEE: Well, President Bush the second, George W. Bush really set this country back, I believe. First the tax cuts that gave us the depression, then the war in Iraq, and a record of prevarication, just saying one thing as a candidate and then doing something else. Even Scott McClellan, his press secretary, said it was the culture of prevarication. So I just give a lot of blame to the Republicans, which I was at the time, and one of the big reasons I left, to take a surplus and turn it into deficits, take a peaceful world and turn it into a chaotic world, that's on the Republican watch.

CUOMO: John is taking one tack on your changing parties. The way you are going to hear it from your adversaries is that is the biggest sin in politics that there is. This man, the governor, did not go from one party to another. He changed twice. Poppy and I were talking about this before the interview. They are going to bang you over the head with that all day. This guy doesn't know who he is, he doesn't know where he stands. He went from a Republican to an independent to a Democrat. We need leadership that is direct and secure.

CHAFEE: The flaw in that argument is that I have a 30-year record to look at, and when they look at that 30-year record they are going to see absolute consistency on fiscal responsibility, on the environment, on using the tools of government to help the less fortunate, on keeping us out of quagmires, on civil liberties, on a number of issues, rock-solid consistency.

BERMAN: You are saying a reverse Ronald Reagan. I did not leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me? CHAFEE: Absolutely. Yes. There's no room for liberal Republicans in

the Republican Party any more. I got primaried in my reelection for Senate in 2006 by the right wing. I won it, but it cost me the general. That's what is happening, they primary the liberal Republicans.

CUOMO: You think the DNC will let you have a fair shot?

CHAFEE: I do. I do. Elections are about choices.

CUOMO: You think you can raise the money?

CHAFEE: America loves the underdog. No doubt I am an underdog.

BERMAN: Will they pay for an underdog?

CHAFEE: I don't think I'm going to raise $1 billion.

BERMAN: Governor, Senator Lincoln Chafee, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

CHAFEE: Thank you.

BAIER: This morning Aaron Hernandez is behind bars where he will be for the rest of his life. The former NFL star showed a little bit of emotion, not much, but there was a whole lot of drama in the courtroom as the jury convicted him of first-degree murder and the judge sentenced him to life in prison without parole. Susan Candiotti live in Fall River, Massachusetts tonight with more. You were in the courtroom, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was quite a day, John, yes. As he heard the words "guilty of first degree murder," Aaron Hernandez, as you said, showed very little emotion except for pursing his lips and rubbing his chin, something that we would see him do during the trial during very tense moments.

[08:15:03] But he did turn immediately and look at his mother and fiancee, who were weeping openly in court.

And then across the aisle, the mother of his victim, Odin Lloyd, who was also crying, sitting next to Odin Lloyd's girlfriend, they were crying tears of relief.

And, of course, what we also learned from a source is that he apparently is denying his guilt. A source telling me that as he was leaving the courthouse and was on his way to prison, he told his jailers, I didn't do it. They got it wrong.

And obviously, the jury in this case disagreeing with that. He will be spending the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole, and is staying for now in a prison is that a stone's throw away from where he was once a rising star for the New England Patriots -- Poppy.

CUOMO: All right. I'll take it, Susan. We have news for you this morning, two active members of the National

Guard arrested in San Diego for allegedly trying to sell guns, ammo and body armor to Mexican drug cartels. The suspects were snagged in a federal sting operation. Officials say they were so brazen, they wore their army uniforms while conducting the deal.

We have CNN justice reporter Evan Perez, broke the story for us live, from Washington.

Tough to believe.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Good morning, Chris.

These two soldiers worked at Army National Guard armory in Southern California. They're due in court later today to answer federal charges, that they tried to sell guns and thousands of stolen military ammunition to drug cartels.

A federal prosecutors say that -- in San Diego say that 22-year-old Jaime Casillas and 34-year-old Andrew Reyes were caught in a sting that was run by the ATF. Now, both men are charged with running firearms without a license and that carries a prison sentence for five years. Reyes is also charged with unlicensed transportation of firearms across stateliness.

Now, investigators say a DEA agent posing as a cartel man told the soldiers that he was shipping weapons to cartels in Mexico, among the arsenal they sold was at least seven guns, including an AR-15 rifle and AK-47 rifle, and thousands of ammunition stolen from the armory.

During one of these transactions, Poppy, the soldiers showed up in military uniforms and sold an AR-15 rifle for $2,000.

HARLOW: Wow.

Evan Perez, breaking the story for us once again. Thank you, Evan. Appreciate it.

Also this, a book by the murdered editor of the satirical French "Charlie Hebdo" is set to go on sale today. In it, Stephane Charbonnier and he has harsh words for people that defended the magazine after it was first attacked, and you will remember that back in 2011. He calls people that accused the magazine of antagonizing Muslims ridiculous demagogues. Charbonnier finished writing that book two days before he was killed in that Paris attack in January.

CUOMO: It will be interesting to read it to see where his head was on all of this.

So, there were seven days of nail biting in this Aaron Hernandez trial before we got a verdict. You're going to hear from the Bristol County district attorney, the man that prosecuted that case, about what he says was the key to the verdict.

HARLOW: Also this, medical marijuana under the microscope. Our chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta continues his fascinating investigation into marijuana, pot, and how it treats pain. He'll join us with a preview of his documentary "Weed 3: The Marijuana Revolution".

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[08:22:28] JUROR, AARON HERNANDEZ TRIAL: Judge Garsh said, keep your mind suspended, and for me and I know a lot of people did, we went in there every day with open minds and listen to the evidence and heard what they had to say and got to go into a room and see what and feel and touch all the evidence, I think we can all stand here and say we made the right decision.

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CUOMO: They took the deliberation process much longer than many expected they would. Those words, of course, from the jury coming moments after former NFL star Aaron Hernandez was sentenced to life in prison without patrol. The most severe sentence he could have gotten for the murder of Odin Lloyd. The guilty verdict: again, seven days of deliberations out of a nine-week trial out of all of it.

So, the man in charge of the prosecution of Aaron Hernandez was Bristol County District Attorney Thomas Quinn. And he joins us now on NEW DAY from Fall River, Massachusetts.

Mr. District Attorney, thank you for joining us. During those days we know you were confident about the case all through, but did it give you pause for concern?

THOMAS QUINN, BRISTOL COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, I remained confident throughout the deliberations. I think as you get further into it is that natural tendency to feel some concern. But we felt confident. We didn't think the long deliberation was negative. In fact, on Monday and Tuesday, there were no juror questions at all and they deliberated all day and I thought that was a good sign.

CUOMO: Were you surprised they had any questions?

QUINN: Well, no, because jurors often have questions and they seem to come in the beginning of the case because there's a lot of evidence to go over, numerous exhibits, the trial was 2 1/2 months. So, I was not surprised at that.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something. Do you think Aaron Hernandez -- what do you think his role was in the murder? Do you think there's a chance that he actually pulled the trigger or do you think he was just there?

QUINN: I think he was the leader, if you will, of the group. There was strong evidence that he pulled the trigger. We argued that. There was evidence at the scene and evidence before and after the murder, so we are confident he was the shooter, but in another scenario he was part of the venture and shared the intent of the other two confederates. CUOMO: So, even if he did not pull the trigger, that wound out to be

in fact true, it wouldn't change your opinion for his responsibility for the crime?

QUINN: It would not, but that's within -- that's something the jury deliberates on, and that's the privacy of deliberation.

[08:25:04] But no, it wouldn't.

CUOMO: If the death penalty were available under your state law would you have asked for it?

QUINN: No.

CUOMO: Because?

QUINN: Well, I mean, it's a hypothetical question and it's not something I had given any thought to, but I would not ask for the death penalty in this case.

CUOMO: But is that a statement about how bad you think it was or is that about how you feel about the death penalty in general?

QUINN: No, more than -- in general, the death penalty, in general, but it was a very serious and violent outrageous crime with no justification whatsoever, and the death penalty was not an issue in the case, and hypothetically, I would not have pursued it, but that was a decision was made before I became district attorney.

CUOMO: Understood.

QUINN: It wouldn't have been me before I became district attorney.

CUOMO: Understood.

Hernandez has five other proceedings pending -- murder charges for double homicide in 2012, three wrongful death suits. Let's stick with the criminal stuff. Do you believe there is a very good case to be made that Aaron Hernandez is responsible for one way or another for other murders as well?

QUINN: Other uncharged murders?

CUOMO: Yes, sir.

QUINN: I wouldn't know that.

CUOMO: Do you think he is --

QUINN: We're focusing on --

CUOMO: The cases you are going to make, how confident are you in those?

QUINN: Well, the remaining charges in our case are part and parcel of the homicide, they are lesser charges, and that's the least of his concern right now, and he has the double homicide coming up in Boston next month and I wish the Suffolk County district attorneys luck.

CUOMO: It's not your prosecution, but from you know of the case, do you believe they have a solid case there as well?

QUINN: Well, I don't know the particulars of it. I wouldn't comment on that other than to say they have indicted him for the two murders and they are proceeding along with the prosecution.

CUOMO: The reason I ask you is because we're trying to get a picture on how can a guy with everything in life go to making the worst choices possible? How do you frame as a character from what you've learned?

QUINN: Well, I think people are saying, he had it all, he threw everything away.

I don't want to -- I don't know him. I don't know what is inside of him, but to say he had it all, he may have had a lot of money but that doesn't mean personally he had it all. His behavior in this case was outrageous. He is accused of premeditated brutal murders in Boston, and there's other incidents that have been brought up in the proceedings.

So to say he had it all, apparently he didn't have it all. Money doesn't give you it all.

CUOMO: Money doesn't give you character, but when you see people mixed up in this type of gangster activity, it's somewhat circumstantial to their life and this guy had every reason to take another path.

But prosecutor Quinn, thank you for joining us. Please, have a final word.

QUINN: Well, I am just very happy for the victim's family and for our office and for the citizens in general that he was held accountable for the brutal murder, and the fact he was a Patriots player, a professional athlete, it meant nothing in the end just the way it should have been.

CUOMO: Justice was served blind under the law. Thank you very much, sir, for being on NEW DAY.

QUINN: OK. My pleasure. Thank you.

HARLOW: More Americans than ever are on board with legalizing marijuana in this case. Why the surge? We are talking about Dr. Gupta and getting a fascinating look at his new documentary.

BERMAN: Plus, season 5 of "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN", it is almost upon us. Why is he in a hot tub? Before we get the answer to that on TV, the host will join us to talk about his favorite foods, his favorite episodes, and his favorite hot tubs.

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