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Continuing Coverage of Baltimore Riots; Freddie Gray's Family Speaks to Press. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 27, 2015 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:08] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW ANCHOR: Anderson, thank you very much. Live in Baltimore, state of emergency tonight -- state of emergency in effect just hours after the funeral of Freddie Gray. This is CNN tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Again, thanks so much for joining us. We'll take you through at least the next couple of hours here on CNN and give you the information as it's coming in.

One of America's biggest cities and most notable cities, again, under a state of emergency tonight. The scene of chaos just 40 miles away from the White House. Look at the pictures next to me. This city is on fire. A massive five engulfed a brand new senior center and at least 15 police officers have been injured in all of the violence that happened today, several with broken bones this evening to tell you about. Businesses are burned as we have been showing you. Businesses have been looted as we have been showing you. Police cars are burned as well and destroyed, a day of shock and chaos, rioting and violence, happening all over Baltimore.

But in the middle of all that -- in the middle of all that -- there is some reality, a good reality. There are people, those here, citizens here, who are trying to stand up to that violence, including the pastors of some of the neighborhood churches in the area, some of the leaders here. We'll get to all of that this evening and take you through all of it and give you the information you need to know, like no other network can do.

I want to get straight though to my colleague, CNN's Miguel Marquez. Miguel he's been out in the neighborhoods all day. He's been witnessing what's going on. Miguel, what are you seeing where you are right now?

MIGUEL MARQUES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are at the Southern Baptist Church near downtown Baltimore. As you can see, it is -- what was going to be a home for the elderly is completely in flames. They were about nine months from finishing this facility. There were 60 units here that they were hoping to be able to house people in. This is a transitional neighborhood in Baltimore, very up and coming and good neighborhood. The pastor, Donte Hickman, told us a short time ago that he believes it was set intentionally because of the situation regarding the violence farther north from here. I can say throughout the day, we have seen just unbelievable scenes of lawlessness in Baltimore. Two and a half miles north of here, near the area where Freddie Gray was arrested and driven around, we saw shop after shop that had the windows broken, looted. Some of them looked like they were fine from the front side, but there were looters going in through the back side. As soon as police left the scene, the looters would just literally descend on these shops and start picking them to pieces. Farther up the street near the mall, Mondawmin Mall, where all of this began, there was just a massive number of police and rioters in an open brawl almost at one point. We found ourselves sort of stuck in the middle of many of the people on the street and they were young people, male and female, with bricks, with rocks, with sticks, with bats, anything that they could grab to go fight the police. And that took the police several hours to finally quell that situation. Meanwhile, cars were burning just down the way. A CVS was being looted and then eventually burned. Police taking a complete defensive sort of position tonight, not going after protesters throughout the day, and this just spiraling throughout the afternoon and into the night -- into tonight. Don?

LEMON: Miguel, you've been out there talking to people in the community, and as I said, witnessing a lot of this. The question is, though, when we heard from the mayor that the curfew in full was going to start tomorrow. Why wait until tomorrow? Why not do it tonight as soon as possible?

MARQUEZ: It is shocking that they would not do it tonight. The city is -- the people who are doing this and it is not everybody because in these neighborhoods, you have people who are absolutely angry by what they see happening, and they are trying to literally collar people -- young people and pull them out of the crowd and get them to go home. The nation of Islam was up in the North Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue section, literally grabbing young people by the collar and trying to take them home and keep them off the streets. It is not clear why the police here and the mayor have taken such a -- I don't want to say hands-off -- but taken such a soft approach to what they are seeing happening in their own city. I can tell you all the way along what was angry but peaceful protesters for six, seven days here, the police took only a defensive position, allowing protesters to go at them, even when they marched, unlike New York, as you remember, when the protesters went out there, the police followed alongside them, blocked traffic for them, that didn't happen here. That's the level of the situation between police and its own citizens here that the police didn't feel they could put their own officers out there in the street with the protesters for fear of them being injured. It's just a very bad situation. Protesters felt they had the upper hand and it's just -- it's gone step by step greater and greater. After Saturday, I think folks thought it would settle down, because they had spent a lot of their anger in going at police on Saturday, but that is not the case. On the day that Freddie Gray was buried, just a conflagration here in Baltimore. Don?

[22:05:37] LEMON: Thank you very much, Miguel. Stand by, Miguel. We'll get back to you throughout the evening here on CNN. And that's the whole point of contention here about why police -- what happened with the police tactics, what happened with the mayor, why weren't people called in earlier, reinforcements to help in all of this? We're going to talk about that this evening. I want to get to my colleague, Joe Johns. Joe Johns is at the scene of one of those confrontations today -- a number of those confrontations, right in the middle of it. Joe, tell us what you're seeing and what you experienced today. JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. OK. We'll give you just a little bit of a sense. Here we see another line of police officers blocking off the street. The next block over or perhaps two blocks down, there's more police officers blocking off the street. But here's the problem. Right through here, we drove coming back from one of sort of the war zones this evening and there is a block not too far from here, within walking distance of where I stand, where people have just essentially taken it over. They've got street fires going. There are people standing on the streets, obviously in an angry posture, with no police intervention because it's pretty clear that there are some blocks that police are taking over and some blocks that are being left for people to sort of fend for themselves. We did come from one of the neighborhoods where there has been some looting. We actually saw looting just a little while ago over at a liquor store and around the corner from there, a beauty supply store that had been completely ransacked and trashed. There have been fires in sporadic and different places around this neighborhood. It's not just confined to one, two, or three-block area. Fires, you know, a couple miles apart and so on. So it's a very strange and disturbing night here in the city of Baltimore. You know, it's sort of ironic now that we're calling it Charm City this evening. Don.

LEMON: I want to ask you, Joe, I don't know if you're able to get that information where you are, but how are they making those decisions as to where to send the officers and -- where they're need?

JOHNS: Well, I know that where we started out, they sent police officers to essentially lock down the block so that the fire department could put out fires. And the second location we went to, not too far from here, probably a couple miles, same thing. There were Baltimore County police officers there with mobile transport units, you know, the armored transport units, and they were there in support of the fire department, which was trying to put out fires. So firefighters come unarmed and they need help when there are people rioting. And that's what we're seeing. As far as this location, I can't tell you for sure, but I do know that they have been sending support.

LEMON: Joe, what am I hearing? I'm not sure if I'm hearing a generator or a motor, a motorcycle or a police chopper overhead. What are we hearing?

JOHNS: Helicopter.

LEMON: Is that a police chopper?

JOHNS: Yeah.


JOHNS: It's a police chopper that's buzzed us a couple times. We've seen probably two or three in the neighborhood. Also, I can't say certainly that's a police helicopters because, you know, there are news helicopters...

LEMON: News helicopters, right. JOHNS: ... up in the air all day and into the evening, Don.

LEMON: Joe, we'll get back to you. Stand by. I want to get into this with my panel here. CNN's legal analyst, Sunny Hostin joins us. Neill Franklin is also with us. Neill Franklin is a retired state police major. And Rob Weinhold who is a former chief spokesperson for the Baltimore Police Department and a crisis and public safety expert. Welcome to all of you. I'm so glad that you could join us. Neill, why not send in the National Guard quicker? He said he needed a call from the mayor the governor said before he could send in reinforcements?

[22:09:51] NEILL FRANKLIN, RETIRED STATE POLICE MAJOR: Right. Right. Right. There's a process for declaring a state of emergency. And I'll -- and I'll tell you, I, for one, beginning the day, I didn't think this would end up where we are now. OK, with the funeral occurring today, with the request from the family, you know, for peace. I, for one, did not think it would happen until we started getting the intelligence, you know, from -- over social media regarding what the schoolchildren were going to do.

LEMON: You didn't think that we would be at this point today because we saw this weekend -- we saw that there was -- there was unrest over the weekend. And you said you didn't expect that, but why did it take so long today even to get people and police out on the street?

FRANKLIN: Yeah. I mean, that's a very good question. But the Baltimore Police Department, in and of itself, doesn't have the resources to do what's needed to be done here. I mean, as you saw on the map, the different locations...


LEMON: Was that incompetence on the governor's part, the mayor's part, the police department's part, the commissioner? That's clearly a breakdown.

FRANKLIN: I think it could be a breakdown. A lot of it depends on how much intelligence they had. They had the people out, gathering intelligence from a number of different sources. So it really depends on what intelligence they had.


LEMON: Yes. We would like to know what that intelligence is. We have asked the mayor to come on. We have asked the police chief to come on. We have asked the governor to come on. So far, they haven't come on. We would like and I'm sure America would like them to explain themselves. This did not just happen in a vacuum. Well, it started in Ferguson at least in Ferguson -- in modern -- recent history and then it has continued to now. It's not like this -- continued unto now. It's not like that -- this wasn't a possibility.

FRANKLIN: Now, here's the thing. Having people on standby -- the numbers on standby is one thing, but being able to deploy them effectively and quickly throughout the city is another thing.

LEMON: Yeah.

FRANKLIN: And that tends to be what we're seeing is a difficult thing to do here in the city right now. I think they have made the calls and contacts with local police departments...

LEMON: Right.

FRANKLIN: ... and having people on standby and at the ready. The question is, where were they?


FRANKLIN: What was -- where were these standby locations and what was the communication set up? How was that set up?

LEMON: We have people working on trying to get some answers to that again. Again, any official who wants to come on, they're welcome to come on and give us some answers because I think the residents -- the people of Baltimore need some answers right now and the people of America wants some answers as well.

FRANKLIN: I agree.

LEMON: Rob, I have to ask you about this curfew. And my colleague, Chris Cuomo, is going to come up here -- come here in a short time and talk to me about an experience he had, witnessing police officers in a confrontation with people saying, "We don't have to go anywhere. There is no curfew." And then the police officers drove away. Why no curfew in full until tomorrow? It doesn't seem to make sense.

ROB WEINHOLD, CRISIS AND PUBLIC SAFETY EXPERT: I think that's a very good question. I think the mayor and the city council wanted to give folks a chance to plan, but the fact of the matter is it's important for parents, faith-based leaders and everyone to try to get everyone off the street and allow police officers to do their job. Well, the first order of leadership is to provide a safe place to live, work, and raise your family. And right now, it's important for people to go back to their homes, allow the officers to deal with folks who are out there starting fires, looting, and hurting others and destroying property.

LEMON: And we'll get to that in a moment and talk about why they're doing that. That's a whole another story. But I have to ask Sunny Hostin about the city's response. You know, there were hours where nothing really happened, where they were trying to coordinate this afternoon. And they began moving police into place. The mayor finally came out, Sunny, and spoke. Did that delay allow things to escalate to the point where they escalated today?

SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, I think it's anyone's guess. Certainly we can quarterback this on Monday night, right? But the bottom line is that I think no one has ever seen rioting handled like a well-oiled machine. Riots are chaotic by nature and this has been a very fluid situation. I think we've seen the unrest. I don't think that anyone could have predicted or -- well, let me say, I don't think that we -- I, at least for myself, didn't think that we would be seeing Baltimore burning today in light of the fact that the funeral was today, that the family had asked for no protests. There were calls for peace. And so, you know, I think...

LEMON: Sunny, I know you have a relationship with the mayor, but do you think the mayor did the right thing today?

HOSTIN: I do have a relationship with the mayor. I have not spoken to her about and questioned her about why she made these decisions. And so I would just be guessing. I did ask why the curfew is not in place until tomorrow and the answer I received was that people have to have reasonable notice that there is a curfew before you can impose a curfew. And that makes sense to me legally because people do need reasonable notice. You can't start arresting people, if they don't know if there's a curfew. And so that makes a lot of sense to me.

LEMON: So reasonable notice is not a press conference that goes out to the city, a press conference that goes out to America and on CNN to the world, saying -- are police going around saying, you know, "There's a curfew tonight. You need to get off the streets." I think that's reasonable notice. And there's Facebook. There's Twitter. There's social media. That's reasonable notice in this modern day and age. It's not like, you know, we're not doing it by horseback anymore or you know. It's not just three news networks anymore. That's reasonable.

[22:15:11] HOSTIN: Yeah. I mean I think that certainly people will feel that way. My understanding is that the answer that I got was that is not the practice. The practice is that you do have to provide reasonable notice. And I suppose the city felt the reasonable notice would be this 24-hour notice. But I will say as someone who was a resident of Baltimore, Don, I worked in Baltimore. I lived there. I have several friends that are still there. I'm just so saddened by what I'm seeing, which is Baltimore burning, because the bottom line is the message is lost, right? The message of people seeking justice for Freddie Gray. The message of where's the investigation? All those answers and those messages are lost now. All we are talking about and framing this discussion is rioting, fires, and looting, and that saddens me.

LEMON: Yeah. And I agree with you. I think it saddens everyone. I know people are -- there are a lot of people who says -- not to put you on the spot -- but because you have a relationship with the mayor I think that echoed that I can question you that way because you can provide us with answers that others can't. But I think -- I think you're exactly right, it is sad. And I'm not sure it's framing it in that way. When you have a major American city that is on fire, of course, that's what people are going to be talking about, and you know, it does. It distracts from the larger issue. The young man's funeral was today. The city said they were doing everything that try to get to the bottom of the investigation. People need to deal with the issues between police and certain members of society. But all of that gets overshadowed in rioting, in pictures of looting, in pictures of people who are slashing water lines for fire hoses, and people who are running in and out of businesses with trash bags and grabbing 40 ounces of beer and liquor. It doesn't seem to make any sense to anyone, Sunny. HOSTIN: That's right. And what I'm seeing -- I mean, you know, I don't want to name-call, but I'm seeing arson. I'm seeing assault. I'm seeing crimes. And so, these are criminals and we're seeing criminal action. And you know, I said earlier that many -- you know, Martin Luther King said riots and rioting are the, you know, the language -- it's the language of the unheard. And you know, that sort of puts it into context. It doesn't make it right certainly. I don't think anyone is going to say that looting and criminal activity is right. It is wrong. But I think that the larger issue is where does this helplessness come from? Where -- why do people feel that this needs to be done because we all know that burning your own community just doesn't make any sense? And I really question why this happened.

LEMON: Sunny, I think you're exactly right. We need to get to the bottom of it. I agree. I think we need to get to the bottom of it. It's hard to do when you have this as a distraction. And by -- and I will quote someone who is very -- who I respect today, a major civil rights leader, who said today he feels that Dr. Martin Luther king would be rolling over in his grave if he actually saw what was going on in the city of Baltimore. What do you think about all of this offices when you -- when you look at what's burning? Does this distract -- obviously it does -- from the larger issues? There are reason -- and we talked about that earlier, Neill -- the poverty of the city, the history with the police department, those are all legitimate issues. But as we're standing here talking, we're looking at fires and smoke.

FRANKLIN: Yeah. I mean I grew up in this city. I grew up just blocks away from where this kicked off at Mondawmin Mall. My mother still lives up there.

LEMON: So they renovated and they thought that it would help the community and it was helping the community in a sensitive (ph) way.

FRANKLIN: It really was. And the area had changed and it was continuing to change. And I must say that, again, it not only overshadows the death of Freddie Gray and the systemic problems and issues we're having across this country with policing today, but it also takes away from those protesters who were doing the right thing.


LEMON: (Inaudible) this is the last thing we want?

FRANKLY: Absolutely. And so what we see out here with the looting and the burning, those are opportunists. These are folks who really don't care about their communities. They're just taking advantage of what's happening. And I don't want that, you know, to overshadow the good folks that are out there doing this the right way.

LEMON: Go ahead, Rob.

WEINHOLD: Yes. I was just going to say there are so many wonderful people in the city of Baltimore and the surrounding area, folks who have worked for generations to revitalize the city and so on and so forth. And this type of evening really is a setback and it will be a set back for years to come. But I've got to tell you, I think the fiber of this city is strong. It's been a peaceful protest. People want to be heard. They want to be validated. They wanted to create actionable steps which will make the relationship between the community and its police department much, much better.

[22:19:53] LEMON: I want to here -- Chris, come around here. My colleague, Chris Cuomo, is here. I want him to stand next to me. So Chris, you and I have been talking to some of the people here. I've spoken to a police officer. I'll share my conversation with the police officer in just a moment. But as you were coming in and you witnessed a confrontation between police and several young men, tell our viewers about that.

CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST NEW DAY: Yeah. I mean -- I think first...

LEMON: It's about the curfew.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And a little bit of context. You know, the city, this is a big city, 600,000 people live here. Many parts of it are safe here and under control. You don't want to get too much of a false sense of...

LEMON: Just like (ph) where we are now.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And in the surrounding areas. Now, as we go west of here, the complexion of the city starts to change in terms of stability. And when I was driving around, trying to find my way here, I did see police coming into to contact with some young men who were there and I was saying, "Get out of the streets. There's a curfew." And they gathered around the police and said, "There is no curfew. You can't make leave. We're not going anywhere." And the cops left as this crowd started to come. Now, I think what you see here as we move around and we start to see the faint lines of officer trying to seal off streets and frankly some tactical decisions being made that it's not worth what increased violence may occur if they try to settle a street.

LEMON: But that has to be surprising to see that sort of interaction with officers.

CUOMO: Two things are surprising. One, to see these young men come towards police and kind of gather in numbers and the police leave spoke to little bit of the instability, but that could have been just one episode. A second surprise is the stark lack of planning that you had here today.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: I understand from the mayor's office that it was to give protesters space and it's easy to say hindsight is 20/20. But even now, we know from our reporters in the field that police were watching looting. Police were watching criminal activity criminal activity. And you have to talk about what were the marching orders, what was the balance of risk involved? But still at this time, there are streets that could use police attention right now and they're (ph) not getting it. LEMON: So let me say this. When you talk about -- you know, when you spoke about, you know, the warning or having enough time to get things into place, this didn't happen in a vacuum. You and I were -- how many times were we in Ferguson? How many -- how many different scenarios have we been in since Ferguson? And cities have planned for it, not perfectly, but Baltimore had the opportunity to know what was coming down the pipe, especially when you see what happened over the weekend?

CUOMO: Well, is the assumption wrong? I mean you gentlemen tell me. You know better than we do. It seems as though the decision made by your leaders here was give the protesters space. The family, this is their day of mourning. Let's not show force. Let's not be super aggressive and it seems to have backfired on you in terms of the logistics and the outcome of the situation, is that a fair statement?

WEINHOLD: I think it's a fair comment. I think also the mayor wanted people to protest in a very civil manner, which is -- frankly, it's good. It's people's right to be heard. But by the same token, you have to be very predictive. You have to make sure the right resources and assets are in place. Look. The men and women of the Baltimore Police Department are some of the most courageous hard-working people I know. But the fact is we're talking about strategy now. We're talking about resources and you have a lot of folks coming to the city right now to not only to pay attention, but to provide resources and one has to wonder should this have been in place much sooner to prevent it getting so far out of hand?


LEMON: I spoke to several officers once I got here. And they said, "Listen." One of them, you know, to remain anonymous -- one of them worked for the homicide unit, one of them worked for major crimes, and they said, "Everybody." I don't know what he said. I remember he said, I'm a member of the homicide units. My buddy is a member of the major crimes. My other buddy is a member of special victims. We are all out doing this and the business of the city and other places not getting handled because it's all hands on deck." And they feel that the city's leaders let this get out of control. They should never have allowed protesters to do -- as you said, the mayor allowed the people to protest. That's fine. But never allow it to get to this point when it comes to protesters or people who are starting to agitate the city.

WEINHOLD: I think we all agree that people need to be held accountable. But one thing let's say in a crisis leadership are that this crisis cost four things, time, money, customers and ultimately careers, and the worst cases scenario, lives. And what we're seeing right now is stakeholder is consumer confidence as well as time and money. So while everyone's focused on this, they're taking away from the core issue and also impacting the economy of the city. And it's really important to pay attention to those things.

LEMON: And they also said to me that they think it's a -- you can't win. It's a lose-lose situation for officers in this situation because if they get up in their tactical gear, dressed up in the riot gear, or what have you, it would be -- you know, they're going to get looked at as sort of being overlords. And if you don't do it, they feel what happens is what happened today.

FRANKLIN: I don't think it's so much of a mistake not showing the force, putting it out there in front, especially back on Saturday when it began very peaceful.

LEMON: Right.

FRANKLIN: I think the mistake is not having the numbers of personnel behind the scenes ready to go and to be deployed. And again, you know, I think people know that I am not one who -- I'm no friend with the mayor. I'm one of the first ones to come out and criticize the mayor and the police department if they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. But this is a very difficult thing to gauge. It's very fluid. It changes at a split second. And the only thing that I can say, yeah, maybe they could have had more resources behind the scenes, tuck (ph) way strategically and ready to go.

[22:25:10] I want to bring in someone else in the conversation. Stand by, everyone. I want to bring in now Cedric Alexander. He is the president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives and he joins us now. What do you think about this lack of planning and the real question is, from this point on, how can police get back the control of the streets here in Baltimore?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES PRESIDENT: Well, you know, Don, let's look at a couple of things here. First of all, the city under the -- with what's going on right now, you had the funeral today, how much planning they may or may not have done, I'm not certain on and I certainly don't want to speculate. But they've had a rough day. They had a horrible day. But as your guests were saying just a moment ago, it's really very hard to gauge these types of situations in terms of what's going to happen. Things change moment by moment, second by second. If police officers go in too aggressive, they'll be criticized and someone may get hurt. If they're not aggressive enough, and then of course, you can lose property, such as what we've seen earlier as well too. It's a moment by moment decision in which we have to allow the police department and the leadership who are there on the ground to make the decisions that they make in the moment. There's never going to be a perfect scenario. You're always going to have these type of situations where you're looking at riots, not peaceful protests, but riots where you're going to have these type of issues that cannot often times be solved very easily. They're doing the best they can under the conditions that they're put -- that's being put in front of them. But if we go back to Ferguson, Don, we also have to remember there, we saw some optics that we all just thought were deplorable. They have obviously learned some things in Baltimore, but each and every event such as this is very different. I don't want to criticize the police department or the leadership too harshly. What we have to do is give them the support because what we have going on right now is a lot of criminal behavior that's taking place and these criminals must be taken off the street. So at some point, peaceful -- people who may want to peacefully protest have an opportunity to do so without harm. But I am very sad as millions of other Americans across this country in terms of what we're seeing tonight, but we have to move forward and we got to support local police and local leadership there in Baltimore. LEMON: All right. I want everyone to stand by and we'll get back to all of you. You were expecting to hear from the Gray family in just a short time, a response from them. They should be a press conference about today's violence and we're going to bring that to you live as soon as we get it. We also have much more to come here tonight -- much more to come live on the streets of Baltimore. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.



[22:31:18] LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. We're live with our breaking news coverage. State of emergency here in Baltimore after hours and hours of rioting, of looting and burning in this city. I want to go now to Brandon Scott. He's Baltimore City councilman, also here with me this evening is Keith Haynes deputy majority whips for Maryland House of Delegates who represents Baltimore. And so thank you very much and then Jason Downs is going to join us in just a little bit. But Brandon, I want to go to you first, you said earlier this is - I believe there's a quote you said, you were pissed, you were angry. Why are you - why are you so upset?

BRANDON SCOTT, BALTIMORE COUNCILMAN: I'm pissed and angry because we're destroying our own city. This is a city tha I love. This is the city that I grew up and this is the city that I dedicated my life to. This is a city that I want to see continue to progress. Yes, Baltimore has its issues, but Baltimore had done (ph) it -- it's a hell of a lot better than the Baltimore I grew up in the 1990s and to see the police and then these neighbors - some of these neighbors that are burning are still repairing from the 1968 riots.

We know that does work. That's why I'm pissed. I'm angry that we have cowards leading children into doing things that is destroying their future. That's why I'm angry. I want all the adults to - the kids to get - talk to the kids to get there - talk to kids and help them understand how this is hurting them.


LEMON: And so play devil's advocate.

SCOTT: All right.

LEMON: The people say, listen, the peaceful protests didn't work. Years of saying we have issues with the police, that didn't work, and now our only -- we can only resort, you know, to this violence?

SCOTT: Right.

LEMON: Is that...

SCOTT: So, no, what I would say today is that, the who (ph) they said to the 1968 rise and I grew up in a - in a city that was still bombed out and depleted in 1968. I was born in 1984.

LEMON: Thank you, bro. Glad you said that because I don't think people understand.

SCOTT: Because we have to understand...

LEMON: Right.

SCOTT: ... all people here need to understand...

LEMON: Yeah.

SCOTT: ... that progress that we have made. When 1993, there were 350 homicides in Baltimore, that the homicides are lower than they have been. Police stuff is lower. Yes, there's still too god (BEEP) much of it, but we're better and the only way we can continue to get there is to continue to work progress and continue to work together, and continue to try to change laws, like they did in Annapolis this year. This actually hurts that cause because now people who have that mindset about Baltimore are now going to feel like they've invalidated by the actions of a few.

LEMON: Keith?

KEITH HAYNES, DEPUTY MAJORITY WHIPS FOR MARYLAND HOUSE OF DELEGATES: Well, first of all, let me just simply say that, what we're seeing in Baltimore this evening is not indicative of the Baltimore which we live in every day.

LEMON: Right, right.

HAYNES: If you look at the coverage that the press is -- is giving, you see probably less than 100 individuals who are scurrying throughout the city, wreaking havoc, so to speak. That is not indicative of the good people in the community that working everyday, those individuals, the thousands who marched on Saturday and the days before that, peacefully and civilly.

So, what we want to make sure is that first of all, we bring peace to this city, that we bring calm to this city, that we get through the night without any more incident, and continuing to move forward in a way where we're able to address systemically the problems - systemically the plague our neighborhoods.

LEMON (?): Absolutely correct.

HAYNES: Absolutely.

LEMON (?): But when you have -- and I will go back to that. When you have Baltimore, this is Baltimore. It's a major city...

SCOTT (?): Absolutely.

LEMON (?) ... on fire, when you see people slashing water hoses, what do you think we're going to cover? What should -- if we did not cover that, if that wasn't front and center, we would not be doing our jobs. Yes, we should deal with the underlying issues and that should come in time and people like you should encourage us to do it at every turn, but we're dealing with this issue tonight, what's happening, that doesn't make the city look good. It doesn't help the city in the eyes of the world, because that's what people are seeing. Go ahead.

SCOTT: And I also think what you also got, you also cover that there are folks - there were folks out there today, trying to deescalate.


LEMON: Who are - we were trying to - yes.

SCOTT: So, deescalate. You have the nation of Islam out there, deescalate. You have my group the 300 man march out there deescalating, talking to these people, trying to talk to them down. You - we have to cover that as well because there a lot of citizens who were just trying to help and trying to get there to stop.

[22:35:01] LEMON: Yeah.

SCOTT: Because they do want their town to burn.

[22:35:02] HAYNES (?): But that's the Baltimore -- that's the Baltimore...

SCOTT: That is...

HAYNES (?): ... that's the Baltimore we're talking about.

LEMON: We're not going to forget what you just said about.

HAYNES (?): Sure.

LEMON: I just want to get an update on the fires and then we'll come back and we'll get your...

SCOTT (?): Sure.

LEMON: And so standby in the room. Miguel Marquez, who has been out there covering. Miguel, what do you have for us? Can you -- what can you tell us about the fires?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this location at the Southern Baptist Church, this was going to be a New Senior Center and this is Baltimore tonight. It was nine months from being completed and it is a complete ruin right now. They will have to start from square one. The pastor, Donte Hickman, saying that he believes that this was deliberately set, that it was part of the Freddie Gray violence that is sweeping through the city tonight.

This is about two and a half miles from the worst of it up at Pennsylvania Avenue and North Avenue where we saw that CVS on fire, where we saw cars on fire, and where we saw police and protesters - not even protesters at this point-- just looters and rioters and criminals, who were fighting openly with police. All of that is still happening in pockets of that neighborhood.

I can tell you I was a block away from where Freddie Gray was arrested two weeks - oh, just over two weeks ago, and there was a car on fire there. The police were lining up and down the street on North Avenue, and we're getting ready to move in. The Western District Police Station, that has been the epicenter of so much protest over the last week or so, that police station now has a giant security perimeter around it. They are prepared for the very worst tonight.

They are not hearing that anything is going to happen up there, but there is great concern that they will come under attack at some point. We did hear what we - what sounded like gunshots at one of the points up in West Baltimore. Don?

LEMON: All right, Miguel, standby. I want to bring my panel back in now. Are you giving us - so tell us about that mall.

SCOTT (?): Oh, no.

LEMON: About the - the building that he's talking about.


SCOTT (?): The building on fire (ph), it was a building that's been built to actually help them. There were -- there's been a lot of investment in that neighborhood. That was a group human on a dust (ph) work first - workforce development and thinks out of old group (ph) that was renovated and that building was going to be helping with that, build by church (ph), to help out with that. It's just a shame to see it go.

LEMON: Jason, I just want to get your voice in here. Hang on one second. Jason, I want to get your perspective here because you're -- you're the family's attorney. The family did not want violence. They've been saying that all along. Are they going to hold a press conference this evening to talk about this? Are they going to respond to this?

JASON DOWNS, FREDDIE GRAY'S FAMILY ATTORNEY: The family is obviously in grief right now. They are obviously mourning. But the hope is that they're able to give a two-door press conference. But right now, let's be clear, they are very, very much still in shock. They very much want answers right now, but they do want their voices to be heard, explicitly that they do not want violence.

Because what the violence is doing is it distracts from the cause, the underlying true cause which is what happened to Freddie gray? How did his spine become severed? That's what they want answers to. So what we're focusing on right now, takes attention away from the true cause, what we should be focusing on, and that what happened to Mr. Gray.

LEMON: Brandon, let's talk about this -- this curfew, why not tonight?

SCOTT: I don't know. I don't know why not tonight. It could - it could be tonight, but I think what we have to do is -- what I have to - what I'm worried about now is what's happening and trying to deescalate it now. I don't know if instituting a curfew tonight would deal what was going on tonight. I hope that we're moving forward, now that we know the stakes here, we have more resource that we're able to d with that. But right now I'm concerned about people and their homes and their families and their businesses and them being safe. LEMON: Why do you think Keith that the situation deteriorated so

quickly on the streets today?

HAYNES: I think one of the reasons why it deteriorated is because I think that Saturday sort of laid the foundation for it. What we saw right (ph) happening Saturday family (ph) yards after the protest here, peaceful protest in front of city hall. It sort of opened the door. And I think what we saw are happening today, on Saturday, kind of sent the message that it was OK. And it may have opened the door for more - for -- as we are seeing...

LEMON: Yeah.

HAYNES: ... obviously so.

LEMON: I guess that every police officer I spoke to said that. Obvious -- they didn't want their names used. But they said, what happened, the standing back, they believe, then being, you know, by-- by using riot or tactical gear, or showing force, that that sent the wrong message and that -- that opened the floodgates for what happened today.

HAYNES: Right. I actually have heard comments from individuals who were more aggressive at one of the last protests actually say the same thing. And they were...

LEMON: What did they say?

HAYNES: ... and that - that same thing which we are saying, that because -- on Saturday evening, individuals were allowed to -- a lone ring (ph), in protesting, demonstrating, using force and violence and then restraint of the police, that it opened the door for further violence today. But those individuals have since realized that this is not the way to go. So they're trying to deescalate some of the actions as well.

[22:40:03] LEMON: All right. Everybody, standby. These are live pictures we're looking at guys, back in - in New York? Yes? They are live. We're looking at some live pictures now that appear to be out of control tonight. And take a look at this from our affiliate WJZ (ph). I want control and to bring in CCN's Miguel Marquez who is joined now by a pastor who's at the scene of a fire at the Senior Center. Miguel, take it away.

MARQUEZ: Yes, this is Pastor Donte Hickman. Pastor, if I could chat with you for just a moment. This is your facility here. What have you lost here tonight?

DONTE HICKMAN, PASTOR OF SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH: Sixty units of senior housing apartments, affordable housing, as well as a transformation center with a myriad of human and health services, such as workforce development, life coaching and behavioral counseling and mortgage lending services.

MARQUEZ: It sounds to me like this is exactly what Baltimore needs in many places. Why would they burn this? HICKMAN: I have no idea. I think the reason that they burned it is

exactly the reason why we needed it. We were seeking to restore people while we rebuilt properties. We wanted to effect change in the human community, as well as rebuild properties with affordable housing and mixtures (ph) development that Johns Hopkins and - and no other investor sought to develop.

MARQUEZ: Do you believe this was deliberately set?

HICKMAN: Obviously, it's one of the results of tonight. The - the - the chaos that we're seeing all over Baltimore. I sought to organize -- help organize pastors across town to march for peace tonight, and little did I know that someone who was insensitive to what the church and the community was doing here, set the place on fire.

MARQUEZ: Should the mayor and the police have ordered everyone into their homes tonight and - and - and started off with a very strong hand at this point?

HICKMAN: It was obviously a very late response, what I heard Governor Hogan say, and everybody's fixing blame. Tonight, I'm not about fixing blame. I'm about refocusing on how we rebuild.

MARQUEZ: As you look over this - this rubble, what - what do you - what do you see?

HICKMAN: I see revival. I see the opportunity to rebuild from the ashes. I see a church that's been resilient for over 80 years and for the past eight years, seeking to put this $16 million investment in the community. I see us now coming back even bigger and better than before.

MARQUEZ: It looks like you've had a long week and a very hard day today.

HICKMAN: A very hard day today, but I'm optimistic and I'm seeking the resources and help of our governor, of our mayor, and even of private investors to come into East Baltimore and change it for the better.

MARQUEZ: Two and a half miles north of here, things are much, much worse if you can believe that. Is -- is Baltimore going - is it going to get worse, is it going to spiral?

HICKMAN: I'm a man of faith. And I believe that we -- every negative is just our opportunity to fight back with another positive.

MARQUEZ: That's right. Thank you very much.

HICKMAN: Thank you.

MARQUEZ: Very good luck to you.

HICKMAN: Thank you.

MARQUEZ: Don, it's -- this is what you hear throughout Baltimore, you have just these heartbreaking situations here caused by the - the violence that is rife through the city right now, with no sense of them getting it into control.

I don't know where the pictures where that you're talking about earlier, about looting and -- and rioting in the streets, but when I left, two and a half miles north of here, up in West Baltimore, it was - it was not looking good as night fell and the number of police out and the number of individuals on the streets looking to harm police officers and - and literally just go through businesses.

We saw business after business being looted, either through the front door, or through the back door. It was absolutely frightening and incredible. Don?

LEMON: Yeah, Miguel standby because we're to need you. Miguel has been doing a heck (ph) of job by covering the story since the beginning. You're looking at live pictures now of what's happening on the streets of Baltimore. You see fires going. Cars are burning in the middle of the street. We have seen businesses set on fire. Drug stores, as you see senior housing facilities, units of affordable housing, according to the reverend that Miguel just interviewed there.

Businesses that were meant to help the community now set on fire, now gone in a - in a flash, in an instant. People here have been concerned about why this was allowed to get out of control. What took so long for police to get into place? What took so long for the National Guard to be brought in? People want it -- the leaders of their city to be held accountable. They want some answers.

And I too, quite frankly, I think the people of Baltimore deserve some answers because most of the people of the City of Baltimore are law- abiding citizens and they want the city it be run correctly and they want their homes and their businesses and their places and living and dwelling and their livelihoods, they wanted to be safe.

[22:45:02] And so I think they deserve some answers from the leaders tonight and if I were a leader here, I would be all over any news entity I could get on to explain exactly what happened and why the reasons for my response.

I want to get to CNN's Charles Blow now, a CNN analyst and also an Op- Ed columnist for "The New York Times." Charles, I never thought I'd be seeing the City of Baltimore burning. We know and this is possible in any city, but here we are.

CHARLES BLOW, THE NEW YORK TIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST: Right, and I think there's a lot of questions of - a lot of questions about how this even started in the beginning. Not just looking at what's happening now. But how did this actually begin? "The Baltimore Sun" has a story now, it's fascinating about how this began with a rumor online, about the people were going to take to the streets in some sort of lawless fashion and then, you know, police confronted students as they left their high school and they were headed to a mall, which is like a transit hub for a lot of these kids and then those kids started to pelt the officers.

Officers sprayed mace, threw bricks back at the kids. That's what "The Baltimore's - Baltimore Sun" story says, and that you can see how this starts to escalate, escalate, escalate and get out of control. I think that - that - it sort of really important to understand when we do, like, the - the -- the tomorrow story about how this worked, what actually happened, and whether or not the tactics used actually escalated a situation that could have been deescalated in the beginning.

That's number one. Number two is, however, is whether or not we look at this as the ill or rather as a symptom of an ill. I think that - I think it's really important to look at all of these things together, not as one city, one kind of civil disobedience or destruction of property or vandalism or riot or whatever you want to call it, as a separate thing. We see city after city after city, where young people are basically taking to the streets and saying, "I've had enough. I'm frustrated. I'm angry." And we have to examine as a country, I believe, why that is, how can it keep happening in city after city? Is there a structural underlying issue here that we have to deal with that's not simply that structure...


LEMON: I have to agree with you. I - I agree with you and I think that we have been doing a good job of covering that every single day since it happened, every day since - since Ferguson happened. We've been discussing those issues and what needs to be done about it, how to fix it, the underlying problems. Systemic racism, poverty, all of those things, but this is the focus tonight because we have a city burning.

We'll get back to all of that and we should, and the viewer and the politicians and the activists and the community organizers and leaders, they should press us to do that. But how did this happen? How did we get here? I think you brought up a very good point.

BLOW: Yeah.

LEMON: And this is from an activist that - that has been online today, and I want to read this and then you can respond to it. Michael Manhill (ph) is here as well and so here it says, so we were peaceful. We walked through 3 miles of Baltimore's worst neighborhood and nothing jumped off. Black non-protesters, we're using their cars to block traffic. No police were there when we were in the hood. No violence happened.

Once we got downtown and the violence were on every corner, the whites were calling us the "N" word, they said the whites are calling us nigger - calling white protesters nigger lovers, trying to plow us with their cars and turn - and in turn, they got a dug out - dug out of their cars and the cars were damaged. My son and I were pushed by white men as I was about to chase (ph) them. And a group of black, as we are about to chase (ph) them a group of black men came out and handled them. Yet we laid -- we're labeled as animals. Yes, it did turn chaotic, but only after outsiders instigated.


BLOW: Right. And I think that this -- this is the really important point here, we cannot look at these people as any neighborhood or any community of people as if they are one organism with one sensibility. There are all different sorts of people. These are not - and you know when we say protesters, this is -- that's the wrong word to even use in this particular instance.

People who are - who are - who are acting out tonight are being - are criminals and - and maybe - and you can call them rioters, whatever you want to call them. That's the very different people - do the people from the protesters who were out on the streets, were pushing baby carriages and mothers and brought their children and all of those people, and with signs and chanting and had messages and you don't see that tonight.

And so to even conflate the two, as if these are -- as if it's one organism, if you see black bodies and black skin, then that -- all of those people are the same. I can - I am able to see difference in people -- in different groups of people doing different things, and being activated by different sorts of circumstances. And I think that we have to be, as media, sensitive to that and stop calling these people protesters. They aren't protesters and they're - and they're - and making (ph) their homes...


BLOW: ... and now just as afraid of this situation as anybody else and they're just as sad about this as which (ph) as anybody else.

[22:49:59] LEMON: I want to bring in -- I got to bring - I got to bring in Reverend Jamal Bryant, who has been out on the street as well and I also want to bring in Marc Lamont Hill to join - to join Charles and I in this conversation and also - and Van Jones is with us as well.

Reverend, you've been out here on the streets, as you look at these pictures and you listen to the conversation that's not only being had here on CNN but it's being had throughout Baltimore. What is -- what's your assessment?

JAMAL BRYANT, AFRICAN-AMERICAN PREACHER AND PASTOR: It's absolutely painful. What you're seeing does not reflect the real rich legacy that Baltimore has. So, we've had seven days of having absolutely no incident. This does not reflect the movement that we've been going after. We want a complete overhaul of a broken system that has failed us over and over again. And what we're seeing on the news is heart- wrenching all the more considering that we called today for a moratorium, that there would be no marching, no protesting on today at the request of the family.

LEMON: Why didn't anybody listen? Why didn't - why this?

BRYANT: I - I - I do not know. We were coming back from the cemetery when getting the news about this happening, just 3-1/2 miles -- less than 3 miles from where the funeral took place. And so we're really calling your young people into calm. They have a reason to be frustrated, but they do not have a reason or right to loot and to damage buildings. LEMON: And if you're just joining (ph) us, I want to say well, you're

looking at pictures burning on the streets of Baltimore. Baltimore under a state of emergency right now. Schools are closed tomorrow. There is a partial curfew in effect tonight, but tomorrow it goes in effect in full for minors and every single person in the City of Baltimore.

I want to bring in now Marc Lamont Hill. Marc, we've been talking about it, he said -- the reverend asked for a moratorium, as we look at these pictures. They asked for calm and there is no calm tonight.

MARC LAMONT HILL, AMERICAN ACADEMIC, JOURNALIST, AUTHOR, ACTIVIST, AND TELEVISION PERSONALITY: No. I mean, there shouldn't be calm tonight. Black people are dying in the streets, have been dying in the streets for months, years, decades, centuries. I think there can be resistance to oppression. When resistance occurs, you can't circumscribed resistance, you can't schedule a planned resistance. You can't tell people where to die in, where to resist, how to resist and how to protest.

Now, I do think that there should be an ethics attached to this. But we have to watch our own ethics and be careful not to get more upset about the destruction of property than the destruction of black bodies and that seems to be to me - to me to be what's happening over the last few hours and that's very troublesome to be.

We also I think I have to be very careful about the language we use to talk about this. I'm not calling these people rioters. I'm calling these uprisings. And I think it's an important distinction to me. This is not a riot. There have been uprisings in major cities and smaller cities around this country for the last year because of the state violence have been a way (ph) to get black female and male bodies forever, and I think that's what's important here.

I agree with you, Don. We can't ignore the fact that the city is burning, but we need to be talking about why it's burning and not romanticize peace and not romanticize marching as the only way to function. I'm not saying we should be hurting people. I'm not saying we should be killing people, but we have to understand that resistance looks different ways to different people. And part of what it means to say black lives matter, is to assert our right to have rage and righteous rage and righteous indignation in the face of state violence and extrajudicial killing.

Freddie Gray is dead. That's why the city is burning. But let's make that clear, the city is not burning because of these protesters. The city is burning because the police killed Freddie Gray and that's the distinction we have to make.

LEMON: I understand what you're saying, and that's nuance. But in all practicality, Van Jones, the city is burning because someone, in essence, set it on fire.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, this - this is going to be, I think, a difficult conversation for us to have and work our way through. First of all, there does seem to now be just objectively an evolutionary leap in the street tactics that we're seeing.

In Ferguson, you didn't see fires being set apparently strategically to pull the police in this direction, that direction. There's something - something has changed. That means I'd be very clear about that and we're concerned about that. I --I take a little bit of exceptions to my -- Marc (ph)...


LEMON (?): Why so, what do you mean something has changed?

JONES: Well, in other words...

LEMON: What do you mean say - you're (ph) taking exception to, Marc?

JONES: Sure, well, listen, yes, you saw a certain set of street tactics in Ferguson, very disciplined, very non non-violent. Once things got beyond that point, it was very localized, very concentrated where you saw the destruction right there on West Florissant. You didn't see, you know, miles and miles being covered. So this is -- it looks like an evolutionary leap in terms of how people are taking their outrage to the street.

I think we have just to notice that this is not - what's happening in Baltimore is very different than what you saw happening in Ferguson. So that I think that's an important thing to note. We don't know if all these fires were started by arsonists. Maybe some were started other ways. But something has changed.

Now, I would say that we can take a moral position and say that there's some kinds of protests that are effective and some kinds that are less effective. There are some that are more desired and some - that others - some that are not desired because I think it's important for us to say, I don't think that property destruction in poor communities that are trying to come back, is a valid form of protest. I don't - I don't see any history...

[22:55:10] LEMON: Yeah.

JONES: ... that shows...


LEMON: Is that where you take issue with what Marc was saying?

JONES: Well, I think he was taking more of an agnostic view that we need to sort of give some space for a range of tactics. I would say I would disagree. I think that we should be trying to show some moral leadership and saying, you know, I keep hearing, you know, riots are the language of the unheard. The reality is, in this situation, the voices at least about police brutality have been heard. Certainly, CNN and other news agencies have been giving space to those voices. So, that doesn't mean...


LEMON: For hours and hours and hours of coverage daily.

JONES: And so, again, I think that, again, it's going to be a tough conversation to have. I want to say, yes, it is true Dr. King said, "Riots are the language of the unheard." It is in fact true and important that people recognize that the conditions in Baltimore for black teens according to one study are worse made conditions for teens in Nigeria.

So that the outrage should be, of course, about the incredible injustice both from the police, but also the economic deprivation, and I want to hand that conversation, I do want to be able to draw line to say that the righteous outrage, we can take a moral position, as a part of this movement. Black lives matter, but you know what black jobs matter, and black businesses matter, and black neighborhoods matter. And then I don't think it's appropriate for us to give any kind of suggestion that the destruction of black communities is a positive or can be positive in this context.

LAMONT HILL: You know, I - and - and to be clear, I'm not suggesting...

LEMON (?): Van Jones-Van Jones -- go ahead, Marc. Go ahead.

LAMONT HILL: I'm not - I'm not saying that we should see the destruction of black communities as positive. I'm saying that we can't have such - a too narrow a perception of what the destruction of black communities mean. And it seems to me...


LAMONT HILL: ... that we - we exhaust all the more...


LAMONT HILL: ... outrage tonight and not the 364 days before tonight. I think we should be strategic in how we write (ph).

LEMON: But Marc - I got to tell you this. I understand - listen, we should be outraged. Yes, we are outraged and we get all that. We understand that. And we -- we devote so much coverage, not only in this network to other networks that I have seen, to talk about all of those issues that we've - we have been - we have exhausted many times the viewer with that, and we should continue to.

But we're trying to figure out exactly what is leading to what we're seeing tonight. And I agree with Van Jones, we cannot give credence to people who want to go out and burn down buildings and to hurt people.

JONES (?): But that -- but that's not my point, Don.

LEMON: ... to slash fire hose. We can't...


LAMONT HILL: But we can't acknowledge - I believe...

LEMON: ... that's what it sounds like you're saying.

LAMONT HILL: No. What's I'm saying is we can't pathologize people who after decades and centuries of police terrorism have decided to respond in this way and when we use the language of thugs, when we use the language of riots, we make it seemed as if it's morally haphazard pathological, illogical, dysfunctional, counter- productive...


LEMON: I haven't heard anybody say thugs if that - if that...

LAMONT: Are you serious?

LEMON: I, you know, who said thugs on this - here, I have not - I have not - I haven't heard thugs...


LAMONT HILL: I don't mean us.

LEMON: And I had bet (ph). That has not come out of my mouth.

LAMONT HILL: I don't mean you, Don.

LEMON: Yeah.

LAMONT HILL: I'm not talking about you, Don. I'm talking about the way the mayor has framed this...

LEMON: Right.

LAMONT HILL: ... and I think she's done a descent job in other areas...

LEMON: Right.

LAMONT HILL: ... but calling the people thugs, today I'm talking about the way the quarter's experience and social media, sounded by the...


LEMON: Yeah.

LAMONT HILL: I'm talking about the people on the ground...

LEMON: Yeah.

LAMONT HILL: ... people who's using the way...

LEMON: Yeah, I get you.

LAMONT HILL: Right. That's what I'm talking about.


LEMON: I understand - I understand what you're saying.


LAMONT HILL: I think - I think...


LEMON: Yeah, the mayor calling them thugs at the press conference, I get it.

LAMONT HILL: I think that became problematic...


LEMON: I get what you think. Please standby because I want to get to the lake (ph) then...


LEMON: ... conflate them all of...

LAMONT HILL (?): OK. I'm sorry about that.


BLOW: I think people can have different motivations...

LEMON: Yeah.

BLOW: ... and the idea that - that - that all people are working towards the same end is ridiculous. People are, you know, it's a complicated, fluid, dynamic neighborhood just like any neighborhood. So, you're going to have people who are interested in -- in violence. You're going to have people who are interested in doing good and you can't conflate those two groups of people.

LEMON: Yeah. OK, Charles, I got to cut you off. I understand that. We'll continue this. The Gray family is speaking right now, so I want to get to them and then we'll get back to our conversation. Let's listen in to that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the number one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, you can do this.

FREDERICKA GRAY, FREDDIE GRAY'S TWIN SISTER: Hi, my name is Fredericka gray. His twin. I don't agree with the violence that they're doing for the city. It's too much. I don't think all that's for Freddie.


GRAY: I don't think that's for Freddie. I think that's kind of like they're doing for others, for something else. I think the violence is wrong and Freddie Gray wants - will push to put violent (ph) to - Freddie wasn't that type of person to break into stores. I don't like it at all.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's respect the second sister's desire not to really interact, she's too upset about it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now do you have any questions and I'll take three.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They rolled on it. They rolled on it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, we can - we can give you that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:: Ms. Weiner (ph)?

[22:59:57] WEINER (ph): I guess just to get (ph) check. Just a get (ph) check on what's happened to the city tonight.