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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
One Hour Until Baltimore Citywide Curfew; 2,000 National Guard Troops On Streets Of Baltimore; 1,000+ Police Officers In Baltimore Tonight; Awaiting Baltimore Police News Conference; 235 Arrests, 140+ Vehicle Fires, At Least 20 Officers Wounded. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 28, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And welcome back. It is 9:00 p.m. here in Baltimore. We're boradcasting tonight from City Hall and all aroudn this city, an hour away from a citywide curfew. Everyone is supposed to be off the streets from 10:00 p.m. tonight to 5:00 a.m. Police have been going out with bullhorns reminding people to go home.
Now, at this moment, protesters are still out there.
[21:00:00] There are protesters here at City Hall behind us. Our reporters are out as well, men from a local megachurch where religious and civic leaders and community members gather tonight, they are marching, carrying a message of nonviolence to the community.
There was a lot more hope out there tonight than there was certainly 24 hours ago. There were also 3,000 police and National Guard troops on the ground. We got a lot to cover in the next hour before the curfew begins, including when you expect a police conference very shortly. At first, I want to go to our Jason Carroll.
Jason, explain where you are in relation to City Hall and what you're seeing?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well we are at Pennsylvania in North. And what you're seeing right now, Anderson, is the line of volunteers that have come out here to put a distance between themselves and police, making even more distance now between police and the crowd that is out here. The crowd dwindled some in numbers, still a significant number of people but not what we saw even two hours ago.
What they're trying to do now is just trying to move people back. Just a little bit more, you can see beyond the link chain. Some people there who are still sort of caught in the middle. Police trying to create more of a distance between themselves and those who are still out here. Even just more than about a few minutes ago, Anderson, and I just saw someone just trying to throw something there at some of the officers there. Some sort of an object there at officers.
We'll see what happens now. Let me try to get a better view point here. As we move through, you can see some of those here and still trying to tell people to move back -- to move back and to try to keep some of the piece. So you can see over there. Leon (ph), see if you can try to get a better shot in there. Thank you.
Just going to move in to try to see if we can get a better vantage point here, Anderson, and see what's happening. That unity line that we talked about, just more than an hour ago.
COOPER: Jason, we'll come back to you. Brian, I want to -- I need to go to our Brian Todd, he's out with marchers. He joins us now. Brian, what's happening where you are?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Excuse us. Anderson, pretty dangerous situation just unfold to us. Some of these volunteers were trying to put some of the demonstrators back. One of the volunteers got a little over (inaudible), pushed a journalist -- it looks like a journalist back and almost made him fall. That created a really tense situation, just a moment ago here. It's calm down, but this is one of the things that we've been watching out for. But it's fairly calm.
I mean, once something like this happens, our experience tonight is, that a bunch of people get in the middle of it and camp it down. And that is what has just happen. Also, some of these volunteers, you mentioned it's just an hour before curfew. Some of these volunteers have yelled out very vociferously, anyone under 17, go home. They have actually -- I've seen them take young people, children and not push them but just kind of escort them down the street this way and telling them to go home. They do not want to mess with the police curfew.
They are determined these volunteers, try to keep the peace here. A moment ago with the situation where the journalist got push back, it was very tense. But again, just as quickly, Anderson, it has calm down. And the reason is, is because of largely, this crowd, like the crowds we saw last week are self policing. Whenever things get out of hand, several volunteers or just people participating in it, come into the middle of it and try to just basically tap down the agitation and the tension.
Now they're moving us back a little bit, we're not sure exactly why, but these volunteers who have come out are doing a lot of this. We don't -- and what we have observed here, they are the ones doing this, not the police. Although they maybe in some communication with the police, I'm not sure.
You see them up there, there's a lot of yelling, some change confrontation, but this has been peaceful up until just a moment ago, but that was tapped down fairly quickly, Anderson.
COOPER: There are obviously a lot of very strong emotions out on the streets tonight as there have been for days now, even among the peaceful protest which we are seeing tonight. There's obviously a very strong emotion, there's a lot of anger, a lot of frustration. A lot of people feel their voices are not being heard.
I want to check in with Miguel Marquez. Miguel, where are you right now and what are you seeing? MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look, we're all very close to each other. Brian was just over here and this is the crowd as we are pushing back. And the volunteers who are out there are doing it for a very good reason. And the festival like an environment that we saw out here today was, because people here wanted to say, this is their neighborhood and this is how they are going to do it. They wanted to world not to see a line of police officers across North Avenue, right here.
[21:05:01] They wanted the world to see a line of people from this neighborhood, people who care about this neighborhood. And that said, people who are across Baltimore came here today. In the hundreds of thousands, we saw people with gloves on, rakes and a shovel, everything, in order to clean up this place.
And I've been here for a week now, it is becoming in a very good shape, based on what I was like, last night. This is Pennsylvania Avenue, you're about three miles down this road, Anderson. This avenue was almost a no go zone last night, frightening, looting. Right down here is where they punch the hole in the hose, as the firefighters were trying establish some water. It's less than an hour now before that curfew kicks in. This crowd has been, it's been amazing our here all day, it has literally (inaudible) festival.
This is their neighborhood. They walk the world to that, they don't thing the police are necessary and it will be very interesting to see how it is that this police force if able to clear this area from 10:00. We get only -- we get hope that everything goes well.
Everybody here has been certainly focused on it going well. Anderson.
COOPER: Miguel, it's interesting what's happening here at City Hall actually is that the attorney for Freddie Gray's family who was just on this broadcast. He is actually not talking to this group of protesters who have been here. He is trying to explain what the family of Freddie Gray has been calling for.
And clearly he's getting a very positive response from the protestors who are here. Actually, I want to bring over here if I could. Just what you have been telling -- what have you been telling people?
BILLY MURPHY J.R., ATTORNEY FOR FREDDIE GRAY"S FAMILY: He wants to know what I've just told you. Can I tell him? All right, all right.
COOPER: So what have you been saying to the protesters?
MURPHY: I made a analogy today. If they rooting for the prosecutor, would you want the prosecutor to tell the Ravens, for example of -- let's pretend the prosecutors are Ravens and there are Ravens fans, would you want the Ravens to tell the Patriots what your strategy is? That's like general costume, you know, what happen to him.
And so it is strategically found for the prosecutor not to show all of (inaudible).
COOPER: So you are trying to tap down any expectations that on Friday there's going to be a (inaudible)?
MURPHY: Absolutely. And that's important. And they heard me, they got it. The problem is that I can't talk to enough groups about this. And so that's where you come in. And so we ought to make sure that if you're rooting for one team, you don't want that team to tell too much to the defense before they develop their offense.
COOPER: I appreciate it. Thanks again. I appreciate it. Again, it's just one group of protesters here. Mr. Murphy there, the attorney for t the Gray family. Joining us here is our legal analyst Sunny Hostin, who is both a former resident of the area. Here, also a long time fried of Baltimore's mayor, we should point out. also joining us is the DeKalb County, Georgia police chief, Cedric Alexander, also former NYPD detective Harry Houck and New York and CNN political commentator Van Jones.
Chief Alexander, I'm wondering what your thoughts are in what you're seeing on the streets here and why you wanted to be here?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, PRES. NATL. ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES.: Well and it certainly look much calmer than it did last night, Anderson, and that's a good sign. We're going to see as the night progress, in terms of the curfew that's going to be upon us here in a few minutes. We are all very sad by what we saw last night, it was just absolutely horrific, where you have people that live in this community, destroying their community.
But what's really I've noted in the time that I've been here on the ground, is there is so many people in Baltimore that love this community, that are out here tonight trying to keep peace. And that is so important as very moment goes by. And I think it's going to play itself out later on as well too, when you have citizens who live in this community, who live in this neighborhoods, who certainly want to protest and talk about their concern, which are (inaudible) to them.
The good part of this is, however, of course, is that fact they want to do something to make a difference. And they don't want to see their neighborhoods destroyed anymore, such as we saw last night. And that is so obvious, it's up in here.
COOPER: Sunny, it clearly seems that the mayor here did not want to repeat of Ferguson in terms of what, at least, she believed was the over response by the Ferguson police department. The criticism now is that she -- there was an under respond.
SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PRESECUTOR: Yes, that's true and I did have the opportunity to speak to her about that and she was very concern about overmilitarizing the police. Because I think one of the lessons learned in Ferguson, Anderson, where you and I were both there, is that when you have a community that already has a tense relationship with the police, overmilitarizing the police can exacerbate that situation.
[21:10;03] So she's had that very real concern. But I think certainly that she's a very measured person, this was a very measured response from the mayor. And people, you know, I think there are two sides of he issue, some people think that overmilitarization or at least preparedness of the police is very important. And others think that it's sort of a wait and see, it's a very fluid situation.
But I do want to just piggyback a bit on what Billy Murphy said, because the bottom line is May 1st has been sort of this deadline and everyone in the community is talking about, I've spoken to many people about that because that is when the police department is scheduled to turnover their investigation to the State Attorney's office. And may people think that those reports should be made public.
I don't know that that's going to happen, because typically a prosecutor gets that information and continues the investigation. So I really hope that our viewers and the public do understand that they may not have all of the information on Friday, on May.
COOPER: And according to Mr. Murphy, it certainly sounds like that is not going to happen, they're not going to have any of that information that's been released. Van Jones, you know, we talked to the guest earlier about -- a councilman about, what do you say to young people here, what do you say to people who feel their voices aren't being heard. I'm wondering, you have a lot of experience in this realm, what do you say to people?
VAN JONES, CO-FOUNDER, REBUILD THE DREAM: Well, you know, first of all we have to be very clear. These young people are -- they're not stupid, they have gotten the message, they have gotten the memo that America does not really care very much about them. Many of them do not expect to live very long. They do not expect to live free for very long.
And they've gotten the message that, listen, they're lives just don't mean that much to anybody. People keep saying, why this kids say black lies, man of black lies, man that's racist, that's (inaudible). Now, listen to the pain under that. Either you have to just say that my life matters. There's real pain there. And so if you don't meet them where the pain is, and it say, "Listen, I get it. I care about you. I love. I want you to do well. I want you to be winner and not a loser. Let's talk about how we get you from where you are to where you want to go."
If you weren't coming with love in your heart, then what you're going to do is you're going to retrigger and that's why I say, "You're a thug. You are this, you are that." You got to retrigger them, you don't want to call them out, you want to call them up. That's the key, call them up. You know, we want you to be a strong young man and a good leader in this community, you got a lot of influence here, a lot of people listen to you.
Hey, don't you want to make sure that when people see Baltimore, they see this community, they think good things about you and which you got a change now to do something possible in this attention. You start pulling them up, you don't call them out, put them down, because you're adding pain to pain. That never works with young people. Don't work with old people very well, it definitely doesn't work with young people who don't feel America is there for them. COOPER: Harry, let me ask you just from a police standpoint, a curfew has been announced, it's going to take place at 10:00 tonight. If the protest remain peaceful, could -- and people remain out of the street, I mean, that's a dilemma for the police. Do you just -- because the protest are peaceful, you let people violate the curfew? I mean how forceful does one get in terms of trying to enforce a curfew?
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well that's a very interesting question and a good question. I hate to be the chief who is going to make a decision there. But the fact is that I'm hoping that when we get to the countdown of the curfew, then the police officer start saying there's 15 minutes left to the curfew, 20 minutes left to the curfew, that the leaders around it will start trying to convince people to leave the streets.
Now, if we get to 10:00, all right and we have no violence on there, I don't think it would be a real good move for the police officers to move in. I think they would probably just wait for the clerics and the volunteers to help people eventually move off the street. Because -- and we have police just moving in at 10:00, then we're probably going to have a violent situation.
COOPER: We're going to be watching very carefully over this next hour, how as the curfew approaches, how people respond in this, to Harry's point. How the community leaders try to enforce their curfew, try to spread the message of the curfew. Police are expected to speak to the media momentarily. Their last news conference before the curfew, before that 10 p.m. curfew takes place, we'll obviously bring that to you live.
We expect to hear as well with a local clergymen, retired General Russel Honore also joins us as well as the curfew approaches. We'll be right back.
COOPER: And welcome back live from City Hall. A largely peaceful protest tonight after so much violence. Last night, there was a small group of about -- now fully about 20 or 30 people here who are chanting black lives matter. Again, peaceful here at City Hall. There's a presence of state police, as well as a National Guard, but not a huge police presence.
But elsewhere on the streets, a very heavy police presence and a very heavy community presence, policing themselves. Tonight a Town Hall was held at a local church, the Empowerment Temple Church. Community members came together at this very tense time, to share their stories and their views, emotion certainly ran high. Here's some of that, listen.
Actually I'm sorry, let me go to Jason Carroll. Jason, what is going on where you are? Jason, what's happening?
CARROLL: Well there's a lot of back and forth, Anderson, you've got some volunteers who are over here in this section, who have been telling people, shouting, "Go home. Go home." And then you got small groups of people who keep saying that they don't what to do that, throwing some bottles, throwing other small objects. But then you've got overwhelmingly a number of local volunteers, regroup and push the crowd back saying, "No, it's time go home. It's time to go home. Go home."
Also up above, Anderson, police helicopter just now making the announcement that the time has not come for people to start clearing the streets. As for now, just about a half hour ahead of that curfew, that 10 p.m. curfew, so a bit of tension here in the crowd. But the passion is from people telling those who don't want to leave to clear the area and to go home.
So that's what we've been seeing, this sort of back and forth. Right there again, you just heard the announcement being made.
[21:20:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cameras are still on you all. Let's show them what kind of Baltimore we have. We demonstrated all day in peace, so let's show them that we can disperse in peace. Please, let the (inaudible) towards home. You know, I know there's a lot of frustration out here, you all, we will continue to work with them. I'm going to make this (inaudible). But I need you all to respect the brothers and the sisters, so I'm asking you to please, let's disperse quietly.
Let's show the world, give them the eyes of the world are all Baltimore right now. So let's show them that we can disperse peacefully.
CARROLL: Here we hear it again, Anderson, the announcement over and over, telling people the time has now come to go home. You see this woman here on the black leather jacket, local pastor, she has been actively interacting with some of the most (inaudible) people on the crowd, really just basically getting a bit to their face and explaining to them the need for them to voice their opinion but now is not the time. To honor the curfew and to break off and to go home.
This woman that you see there, she has been organizing much of this throughout the early evening and the to the late day. So she's going to continue to do that as -- I had a (inaudible) office that talk to her and she said, "I'm going to keep working on it. I'm going to keep encouraging these young people to voice their opinions but to go home. Now is not the time."
Let me see if I can get her very quickly.
REVEREND PAMELA COLEMAN: Move it back, now move it back.
CARROLL: Tell me very quickly what you've been trying to do, I've been seeing you out here all night, trying to get people to go home.
COLEMAN: I'm getting to convince people to go home, let people that justice is going to be served, just to get the process some time. Just to show that we have unity, sure they're gang bangers, but to me they're people.
CARROLL: Let me get your name very quickly. COLEMAN: Reverend Pamela Coleman. And I'm just trying to keep peace and keep them away from just angry, hurting one another, hurting themselves and just trying to keep (inaudible).
CARROLL: How challenging has it been for you just to get that word out and to convince some of these people out here who obviously, some of them very angry, not all but some.
COLEMAN: You know what? It's not even about me, it's really about god. Just like last night in (inaudible), they listen, each of the voice of authority, speaks through me, which is god himself. I prayed on my way here, I prayed walking, I prayed before I left home. I've been praying while I was here. So I believe that not I am doing this, but god himself is doing this.
CARROLL: I've heard you on the loud speaker as well and encouraging some of those here in the crowd, which has started to (inaudible) some to go home...
COLEMAN: To home.
CARROLL: I heard one other person say that you've been giving more attention to this neighborhood than the mayor has.
COLEMAN: You know what? Let met say this, as I said to them over there, excuse me god, I'm sweating, it's a little hot moving around. Our President launched our organization that was the (inaudible) base of (inaudible) issues and community leaders together as one. So when you see me, you see them. When you see me, I'm representing the Mayor and the Governor and the President, because we came together because they're in their, you know, respective places.
They don't know the (inaudible) of the community, so they had a (inaudible) for the city of Baltimore, the state of Maryland to pass the spiritual leaders being that we are how (inaudible) because that's what I do and I've been doing it for 11 years. And I know the (inaudible) and the different things that are going on in the street with young people, with women, with men.
And o that's all that matters right now.
CARROLL: We're not just at half an hour...
CARROLL: Little bit an half an hour away from that curfew. What else can you say to some of these people to simply just don't want to (inaudible)?
COLEMAN: Just go home and justice probably would be served. Just go home. Respect the curfew. Because we have to let them know, but we all do respect the curfew, but we also need to respect them. And it's now about saying something to them, it's about saying something to them in a respectful manner.
CARROLL: Thank you very, very much. We wish you the best of luck. Anderson, I'm going to pitch it back to you.
COOPER: All right, Jason. I want to bring in member of the clergy here, the Reverend Harold Carter Jr. He is the pastor at the New Shiloh Baptist church where Freddie Gray's funeral was held. He has been calling for peace an he's been trying to (inaudible) even meeting with rival -- with the rival gang members. Reverent Carter joins me now. Thank you very much for being with us.
Explain to me the process that you have been going to through, of reaching out to gang groups to other.
REV. HAROLD CARTER JR, NEW SHILOH BAPTIST CHURCH: Essentially, Anderson. What happen was (inaudible) that yesterday, following the service of home going for Freddie Gray Jr., obviously as the whole nation, in fact world knows, there was a sense of unrest that develop with some of our young persons, that escalated.
[21:25:04] I thought it was a good thing to call the same clergy who participated in the service of home going, back to the church last evening, so we did that. We had a press conference and call for peace, subsequently, who said this isn't enough. We need to extrapolate on this.
By that time, because of word of mouth social media about 250 clergy had come to the church. We said let's go out and march, because our community was right in the midst of all that was going on in West Baltimore, the surge is right on that community. And so we took to the streets, pressing for calm, getting on our knees and praying for our sister and brother in our community.
And the context of that, members of the crimson blood approached us, because word had gone out that they weren't putting out treats to police officers. They say that's not true. Give us a way to let the nation know and the city of Baltimore know that that was not true. That brought us together and our church had a great conversation, want the press back in and that's why we are still calling for peace, but now the church has reached the gap with the member of the gang communities of our city in an unprecedented way.
COOPER: And to see so many member of the community tonight come out on the streets, that's going to make you feel optimistic about tonight.
CARTER: Absolutely, because what we are seeing now is a certain calmness. Civil disobedience is still taking place, but with another perspective. Obviously, there is still little small pockets of this, or that that maybe negative of what's being heard, of voice is going to forth, that's positive, even with the curfew that's pending, the sense is that we are now making a difference.
COOPER: Reverend, I appreciate you take the time to be with us. Thank you.
CARTER: It is a pleasure, Anderson. Thank you so much.
COOPER: All right, thank you very much. We're going to take a short break. Our coverage continues. It's half an hour from then this curfew takes (inaudible). We'll be right back.
COOPER: We're back here at City Hall. The curfew, a half hour away already we've been hearing calls on the street for people to disperse and go home, calls from volunteers, that message is being carried in part by local clergy members. Many of them gathered tonight at a massive local AME church, not far from here. Leaders calling for calm.
Community members have their chance to speak out, sharing their stories, sharing their pain. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police don't want (inaudible) so many students and people think that is us but it's not.
One of my friends almost died last year, because (inaudible) the police didn't go to help him. He didn't investigate, that nobody cares.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I grew up with Freddie. The signs that see everyday that (inaudible) they say no justice, no peace. God is upset with this. We can't tear our city down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're saying, you're trying to help us, help us? (inaudible), help us. We need help. Be excellent. We asked them, we're begging you for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So they tried to make this like it's an isolated event. It's not an isolation event. It's the extinction level event. African-American man has a possibility in his life time to produce four children. When you take him, how many kids produced?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Pastor Jamal Bryant of the Empowerment Temple Church led the meeting. He joins me tonight. Pastor, it's good to have you on the broadcast again. A lot of people who are at that meeting are now out on the streets. What is the message you were trying to get out there tonight to all the young people who are out in the streets?
REV. JAMAL BRYANT, PASTOR. EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE CHURCH: The message is very simple. It's very clear. We're asking everybody to go home. We are in fact the respectable people here in Baltimore. Last night was an old chapter. Tonight, we officially became one Baltimore just like the Bloods and the Crips came together, Christians and Muslims came together tonight. Believing that together, we're going to change the side of this city and the narrative of what's taking place here.
COOPER: You said that several gangs, the Bloods, the Crips, another group, the Black Guerilla family that they have indicated, they are coming together tonight to try to help control the community. What impact do you think that is to having? BRYANT: It's having an incredible impact as a consequence. You don't even have a 100 people out tonight because we understand that there were something called positive peer pressure and the influence of the Black community on that always elected officials of the people who in fact can't speak and other people listen.
As a consequence, this sanctuary was filled tonight of a 300 to 100 different leaders of houses of faith, our college student, young people, seniors, all believing that what was shown last night isn't not a for portrayal of what Baltimore represents.
COOPER: And tonight, do you believe that people will go home in the wake? I mean, what kind of an impact do you think this curfew is going to have?
BRYANT: I think that people are going home but it doesn't mean that we're not going to be resolved. This curfew was just for seven days, but the eighth day is the new beginnings. And on the eight day, I'm believing that our city is (inaudible) ready to be like a phoenix, rise out of the ashes and please don't let anybody get confused, we will be marching again and we will be protesting again but it will be in peaceful way.
All of the faith communities in Baltimore are going to be marching this Sunday at 3:00 outside of City Hall. I'm believing that when God gets in the midst of confusion, we get a resolution and we still believe that there is some areas of the police department that have got to be corrected and we still believe that the family of Freddie Gray still is deserve of justice.
COOPER: Well Pastor Bryant, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us tonight and good luck to you out on the streets tonight. Thank you, sir.
BRYANT: Anderson, thank you. I hate to rush you but in Baltimore if I get arrested, 80 percent of my spine can get saver. Thank you.
COOPER: OK, sir. We just have gone some new information on the curfew, Baltimore police saying it will be enforced tonight at 10. Police were using the city's reverse 911 system to inform people about it.
[21:34:59] We'll talk to our General Russell Honore about that come up next.
COOPER: Well the curfew here about 20 minutes away. Police have been briefing the media, saying it will indeed be enforced. They are going to be using the city's reverse 911 system to try to let people to notice stay home. In addition, officers will be given to discretion on how to enforce this, so that people already on their way home, for example, will not actually be arrested.
I want to get to our Chris Cuomo. Chris, explain where you are, what the situation is there. CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: We're right over by the CVS where it was burned down last night, where Miguel Marquez has Jason Carroll and the whole team have been doing such great reporting for us. It's a very unusual situation here.
Yes, the curfew was coming, that means the police is going to move everybody out and yet there is odd disconnect going on where you have members of the local community that are actually telling the media to leave saying, "Hey, if you're not here, they won't do anything to us." Which I think it's a really basic misunderstanding what is about to happen at 10 p.m.
I mean certainly, there is a different mood tonight, Anderson. They are thinking about protecting their community instead of destroying their community out of outrage. They don't want violence to be an answer tonight. And they are angry. And I'm trying to talk to them, they are angry at the media. They are angry at outsiders for being here. They are angry at the police. But the question becomes what happens at 10:00?
[21:40:00] At 10:00 what is this line of officers going to do? How are they going to clear this corner and make the others? And while there is concern at the media being here may create more attention to the situation, how are you going to get these people to move, especially with this confusion that this group here things that they're helping the police get rid of people? But they themselves are going to be the subject of removal.
So it's a little confuse, but here's the good news, right now, there is not violence, there is no screaming, there is not line of hostility that's building up in the face of police. And all of these young people you see are telling everybody else to leave.
Now, just to give you the set up, Jay (ph), just take a look back to the right for a second. You see those vehicles, those are the heavy -- the more -- heavy up armor police emergency vehicles. Then, you see the line of police which is three thick, OK? And then you have the locals that are in front of them to be a barrier between them and everybody else, which they say is to protect people
And they have been the vocal and aggressive ones saying that, "You're going to have to leave. You got to get out of here. Otherwise, we're all going to get hurt." You see how they're talking to the media telling the media to leave.
The problem will be, Anderson, that at 10:00 or whenever they decide to enforce the curfew, that group is the group they're going to target.
So it's a little bit of a confuse situation, but again, the hope is that everybody's mind is in the same place which is let this be peaceful tonight. So we'll see how it goes.
COOPER: Chris, stand by. I want to bring in General Honore into this discussion. And Chris, stay with us if you can because I want him to talk about of all the questions you raised about what police actually do.
General, what do you make of that? I mean, it's up to the discretion, I guess, of the officers on the scene but you don't want to do something obviously that exacerbates the situation?
LT. GENERAL RUSSEL HONORE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, absolutely. I mean, Chris did a good job at describing what he see in there. And everything at night is hard, Anderson. You know, if it takes this much energy during the day time, it take twice as much in the night.
The other piece is, there are a lot of people on the street that really didn't hear the Mayor or the Governor speak today. They've been out on the street all day. So the ability to communicate is going to be hard and it's going to take a lot of patience on the police part tonight as they move through and get people to move.
Because their number one objective is peace and not confrontation. But the number two, there will be people as you just said that think that they are doing the right thing by being a part of the solution. But which leads to what are we going to do tomorrow and the day after, we've got to stop playing checkers, and stop playing a little chess here and start addressing why the people are protesting.
The people are protesting over justice. Yet the Baltimore Police Department still don't have cameras. This incident happened and they investigated themselves. That's two of the things that they in every city keep coming up and we still hadn't made a decision in Baltimore to get cameras on their police and to say that they're going to do the investigation from an outside source if a person lost their lives.
So made me to create a narrative toward working out of this event. I suppose you focus in just on law enforcement, they've got to figure out what got us here and start talking to the people in addressing those issues. Anderson.
COOPER: And Chris Cuomo, is it -- I mean, is it widely known among the people there where you're at that there is this curfew starting very soon? And is that a message that the local volunteers have been trying to inform the others as well?
CUOMO: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, the General Honore's points are well made. This isn't just about Freddie Gray. It's not just about what we heard on Ferguson. Hands up, don't shoot. They are arguing about underlining culture and socioeconomic and disenfranchisement and education issues that we've heard in many different cities. That's the root of it here as well.
But they are fairly aware of the curfew. The only confusion about the curfew to be honest, Anderson, is among the media, whether or not it applies to the media. But they are very well-aware of what's going on and they're telling people the curfew is coming, get ready to leave.
The only disconnect is they are not leaving themselves. So we don't know exactly what's going to happen when they decide to enforce this curfew. But there's a lot of a motion here but it is not like last night. And that may have be a bit of a prayer at this point. But hopefully, when the clock strikes 10 and the police do whatever they do, this happens in a more organize way than it might be expected.
Now, you see the man in the white hat, right there that Jay (ph) is on, that's one of the community organizers. He's walking around with bullhorn. He's telling people, "You're going to need to disperse or you will be dispersed."
[21:45:02] COOPER: And we can hear him saying that. I want to go to Miguel Marquez, Chris. Miguel, the scene where you are, explain what you are seeing. And again, is that message also being sent, it's time to go home?
MARQUEZ: Well we're at the exact same place. And what we have heard here, it is a bizarre, intense situation right now.
The organizers, the neighborhood organizers are trying to push not only other people who are standing around here but the media out. As they try to push the media out, more media runs in to see what they are doing and it turns into a struggle between organizers and the media. It's become a little bizarre.
The Mayor has recorded messages for this crowd that is being played out over the armored vehicles that they have here that is being treated with the collective shrug. People aren't even (inaudible) it actually.
They have been beefing up the number of police officers in riot here, in this area all day. The helicopter as you stand across this crowd, you can see that bizarre light of the helicopter that has been flying around this area all day. It becomes much more intense at night. They are clearly sending a signal that they are beefing up the number of police officers in order to do this.
Police officers from Montgomery Country, from Prince George's County are in different areas, right near where we're standing right now, not in the line but they are ready to move down other streets to clear the crowd out of the civilians, of the press, of everybody and everything will have to move.
It's -- I mean, in some ways, look at this. I mean, turn around all the way this way, you have media that has set up along this way. This is probably going to get swept out, too. I think everybody is very unsure of what is going to happen in the next 20 minutes or so, but wait 20 minutes and we'll find out. Anderson.
COOPER: We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with all our correspondents.
[21:50:05] COOPER: Well 10 minutes to go until the curfew. We've got some late word tonight of the police officer injured. It happened in the city's southern district during some kind of altercation with the crowd of people. Unclear though, weather was curfew related. No one word yet on exact they how badly the officer was hurt. I do want to go to Jason Carroll. Jason, tell us what you're seeing now? CARROLL: Well it's basically what we've seen for the past hours. So, Anderson, you can still see the police line that is out here. There is still a number of people asking everyone who's still gathered at this location here at Pennsylvania in North to go home.
We've counted Anderson possibly around 200 people moving in and out of this tiny area right here. So mostly people who are out here earlier comply, took their children home, took their love one home. But there's still some people out here.
I heard Miguel, my colleague Miguel Marquez talk about this little early, this sort of relationship now between the community and the media. It's -- When you look at the number of people who were in this crowd, it's difficult to tell for this camera point of view, but a lot of this people here are also members of the media. And the community is saying that because we're, here some of those people the community who might not be here are staying here because of our cameras.
And so we're trying to work that out because obviously we want to be out here to responsibly report what's going on but also be sensitive to those who are here in the community, trying to clear the area, trying to keep some of those people who are angry. I can hear some of them yelling right now, "Go home. Go home." Trying to a keep some sort of sense between those people who are here. Once again, your going to hear the loudspeaker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should be home by 10:00. Don't use any body gas (inaudible) any major changes that need to be made tonight. Go home tonight, that's all we're asking. Is for you to go home tonight, please. You know, is not about people's (inaudible).
CARROLL: So there, out community leader saying is not about people spelling out, saying for those who were still here, still standing at here in this corners, Anderson, to please go home. Anderson?
COOPER: And we'll continue to follow that. I'm here with Sunny Hostin, legal analyst, former resident of this area. Also she point out a friend of the mayor's. It is a real conundrum for authorities try to figure out how aggressive you get to enforce this curfew. Right now, it seems certainly that is being left up to community leaders to volunteer, to try to encourage people to maybe go home for tonight.
HOSTIN: Yeah. And that's a thing, it's a balancing act. Because I think if the police act too quickly and act too aggressively, that could exacerbate the situation, but you also want people to obey the curfew. And so I think time will tell, in terms of what we're seeing. We still have a crowd of people out here, some of them young. It's almost 10:00, they're still here.
COOPER: And General Honore, you're still with us. We're started seeing now, I understand, police moving forward a little bit. I mean, what rule how would you try to how would try to deal with this? I mean they're trying to, I guess, now reinforce their front lines, you know, if you were command how -- what do you do? HONORE: Well I think it's going to take great patience because the police need to understand at this very balance act here, that while we had a peaceful protest tonight, the reason peaceful protest go to some of disobedience is that people to make a point, they challenge the government. The government tonight want law and order, the people want justice. And there will be people who will stretch this curfew tonight and go to civil disobedience because they're breaking the law.
They want a challenge the law, which takes them to civil disobedience, they break the law and if the police don't show a little bit of patience with them and they immediately at the strictly hours start put the people in (inaudible), then they will have fall of the right into what the protesters want, which is to be disobedient, break a law and challenge the authority in that city. That's what's civil disobedience is.
You can go from a peaceful protest to what? With violence, to include crimes because the people are challenging not authority. So those police got to do a little community policing there and give the people -- be a little patient tonight, at the strike of time. Again that 10:00 hour is done to give you a chance of the majority, the people to go here. But that can easily turn you into a very nasty operation, if they start getting arrested and challenge the police or every minor infraction that they might do.
[21:55:06] So they've done a great job, but the objective of the of protesters are going to be do something that break the law or the potential to break the law and challenge the authority, focus on law and order and the people are focused on justice and they want to show the police the police the work for them.
COOPER: And Van Jones, as you watch this, obviously this is, you know, getting down to the final minutes now right before the curfew and we've seen the impact. Without a doubt, the strong impact, community leaders, the pastors, church groups of volunteers have had all throughout the day and throughout the night. The question is what happens as those volunteers are past their curfew? Are they're working with police to continue to try to get people to move on? Do they (inaudible) themselves to go home? It's a tricky situation.
JONES: You know, Anderson, we are now in the second major leadership challenge of for the mayor and for law enforcement, except for the media there. Now, three forces on the ground, there is law enforcement, there is what you would call the one Baltimore movement, this community leaders that have been so heroic and there are still those unruly elements to control the day.
Law enforcement wanted, allowed, cooperative with the one Baltimore movement flooding the street, with this protesters. Now you've got it actually reverse the polarity. You needed the people out of their houses to get control, now you need them back in their houses to keep control. That is a very difficult thing for law enforcement and the mayor to pull off and to execute.
And what you got to do in that situation if you're the mayor, is you got to create a stir step effect, where you do not unleash your police against your allies, the one Baltimore movement. At the same time, you can't let the one Baltimore movement undermine your curfew.
So over the course of a minute and hour, they got to increase the -- lower the (inaudible) people being on the street. I am very, very concern that, you know, they could blow this thing by moving too fast as our previous speaker said, which you could also completely undermine the authority of the mayor by moving too slow. If two hours from now, three hours from now, you still have one Baltimore movement leaders down there, you still have other element out there, other people, they'll start coming back outdoors. And (inaudible) a very, very tough...
JONES: ... situation for this thing. It very, very tough.
COOPER: And Harry, earlier we heard that if you kind of -- it would left up to the units of the police who are out there to kind of judge the situation. I guess that's, that's one thing you have to do, you have can't have a one size fits all approach, you got to go street by street each different group of police and protesters, no?
HOUCK: Well exactly. I mean, this is the real fine line that we're talking about here, Anderson. We got peaceful protesters, we have police on one side, peaceful protesters in the other. I'm starting to get a little worried here because I think there might be some people out there that actually just want to confront the police, not all of them but some. All right, so the police have got to use discretion in everything they doing tonight.
When the 10:00 hour comes, I think probably what is happened is that this leaders in Baltimore have already met with the police and have talk about what's going to happen at 10:00. So there might be a little bit more discretion here before the police starts moving in and moving slowly into the crowd to try and get them to disperse, it's real -- this is a real hard decision for the police department and whatever decision they made right now, I'm behind them 100 percent.
COOPER: I want to go -- If we can go to one of our correspondents, I'm not sure who we have, who is ready to stand by. Is Jason Carroll available to us? Chris Cuomo. Chris, explain what you're seeing now.
CUOMO: Anderson, you need us, you got us. Yeah. Al right Anderson this is ...
COOPER: Go ahead Chris.
CUOMO: ... this is going to be like the deciding moment here, not over dramatize it, but this is when the curfew's is going to come into affect, you can see -- if Jay (ph) gives you a little pan on the right, you see the cops right now. Jay (ph), take a look to the right. And you'll see the big crowd is assembled here. A lot of its media and the officers have made it very clear, whether the curfew was meant for the media or not, if you're on the street, you're going to be subject to their intentions.
So we're going to try and stay out of there way. And again this is odd part of the dynamic is that locals are saying to the media, "Get out of the way. You're the one they want out." And I think they're going to be very surprise by who the police is targeting as they start to move. So it's all about the manner in which that this impose obviously.
[22:00:00] Nobody likes this situation. A curfew was not a normal order of things. The police have said that they're going to do in a slow and deliberate way, but I have to see what happens.
COOPER: All right, Chris, I want to thank you. I want it handed over to my colleague, Don Lemon, who's standing by, who's going to take over our coverage.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: But you're not going anywhere, because I'm going to need you just a little bit to sort of debrief us on what you've been seeing. Anderson, thank you very much. Stay with me. We got a lot going on here tonight.