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City Prosecutor Gets Report On Freddie Gray Death; Undisclosed Police Van Stop Revealed; Mom Who Saw Song Toss Rock In Police Riot; "I Just Lost It"; Son Slapped By Mom; "It Was World Ward III"; Interview With Mother Who Lost Son To Violence In Baltimore; Baltimore Case Sparks Protests Across U.S. Aired 15-15:30p ET
Aired April 30, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00] REV. A.C.D. VAUGHN, SHARON BAPTIST CHURCH: Federal government, city government, state government, and they have to go in beyond the crises.
RUTH ANN NORTON, COALITION TO END CHILDHOOD LEAD POISONING: That's right.
VAUGHN: When this situation is over --
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: When we pack up and leave, it needs to happen.
VAUGHN: You still have to have the commitment. They've got to show this younger generation that we do love you, that we are real, that we're concerned about you. And we're going to help you to have real goals and objectives because we're going to nurture you.
NORTON: And we're going to invest. We're going to invest in your infrastructure and not cut the knees out from you by the time you're 2 that says you're on this pathway to prison or to the corner. Instead, you're on the pathway to school and opportunity, the same opportunities that we have got.
BALDWIN: Ruth Ann, a pleasure. Reverend, I wish I was here Sunday.
VAUGHN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you so much, sir. I really appreciate it. Such an important conversation here.
Let's go, hour two.
You're watching CNN's special live coverage here on this Thursday. I'm Brooke Baldwin live in Baltimore in front of City Hall. This is a city that is hoping to witness a third night of peace, of calm, as a march is expected to start in less than an hour from the neighborhood we were just referencing here, to City Hall. This is all coming on the heels of a major development today in the case of Freddie Gray.
The findings of this police investigation have now officially been turned over to the prosecutors, is actually one day ahead of the deadline. That city prosecutor state attorney is 35-year-old Marilyn Mosby. She will decide if any of the six officers suspended in this case or anyone else for that matter should be charged in this 25-year- old man's death.
You know the story. Freddie Gray died after he was arrested in Santown in West Baltimore on April 12th. His spine severed. And in announcing this hand over, this official hand over of this report, Baltimore police leaders also revealed this huge piece of information, that that prisoner transport van that was taking Freddie Gray back to the police station and ultimately to paramedics had actually made a stop investigators did not initially know about. And that means the van stopped a total of four times before ending up at that police station. It was there that the ambulance was finally called for Freddie Gray. Then he was taken to the city's shock trauma center.
Minutes ago, Baltimore police responded to the late disclosure of this stop and if it was linked to a cover-up. Listen to the captain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The commissioner dropped a bombshell when he said there was a second unscheduled stop of the van, of the police van. Was he suggesting, are you all telling us that the arresting officers covered up or lied about stopping that police van after Freddie Gray was inside the vehicle?
CAPT. J. ERIC KOWALCZYK, BALTIMORE POLICE: So what I will tell you is that we've stated from the beginning when we have information that we're able to share, we will. As the commissioner said today, it would be inappropriate for us to further comment on the status of the investigation. It is now in the hands of the state's attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you've left us hanging. I don't know -- do you mean it was just unannounced, or was it covered up?
KOWALCZYK: Again, as I just said, we have released information as we're able to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: All right. Let's go first to Athena Jones live at the location of this newly revealed stop in which this van paused for whatever reason. Athena Jones, tell me, where's the camera, how did police find out?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you all of that, Brooke. The police say they found out as a result of their thorough, comprehensive, and ongoing review of all of the public and private cameras in the area. We're talking right now about a private camera here at this convenience store. We're not far from where Freddie Gray was first picked up. This is a Korean-owned store. Our producer, Carolyn Sung, spoke with owner. He told her that police came by sometime last week, likely earlier in the week, he doesn't really remember because he was busy when they stopped by. They asked to review his footage. He showed them how to look at the footage on his computer and didn't think much of it. He was busy, he had a customer, he didn't ask them why they wanted to see it.
A few hours later, they sent some other folks over, other plainclothes officers, to make a copy of that video from his computer on a USB. We're talking about this camera here. You can see outside there's two surveillance cameras. You'll also notice that they have been cut. You can see here the wires that have been cut. This is significant, Brooke. This is very interesting. This store was looted on Monday night.
Let me back up and show you just where a group of neighborhood kids got in. They tore out an air-conditioning unit, we're told from someone who was a witness, climbed through and looted the store. They stole the owner's laptop. That laptop is what contained all of the surveillance footage. So had the police not come several days before the looting began, it could have been lost to them. So very interesting and also a big question about what other footage is out there. Brooke?
[15:05:15] BALDWIN: Athena Jones, thank you so much for showing us where that stop would have taken place just a couple weeks ago.
As we mentioned, the state's attorney here in Baltimore issued a statement saying that her office will conduct an independent investigation of Gray's death. Let me read part of the statement for you. They say, quote, "While we have and will continue to leverage the information received by the Department, we are not relying solely on their findings but rather the facts that we have gathered and verified. We ask for the public to remain patient and peaceful and to trust the process of justice system."
Among the pieces of evidence here that the state's attorney may be considering is this explosive report from today's "Washington Post." This other man, this other prisoner or suspect who was transported in the same police van as Gray said, quote, "Gray was banging against the walls," and that he believed Gray, quote, "was intentionally trying to injure himself." Now, this is coming from a police document the Post obtained.
With me now, our justice correspondent Evan Perez and CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin.
First, let's begin with this previously undisclosed police van stop. We have no idea what that camera, that bodega (ph), captured but it could be key, yes?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. I think it is key because we know what happened at the other stops. The police have disclosed what they know happened at the other stops. This one, it's clear they don't have enough information. The camera, the surveillance camera, clearly does not provide a conclusive answer to it. Now the question is how they're going to solve this mystery here. It's amazing that at this stage, we're adding mysteries, we're adding new questions rather than solving them and answering them.
BALDWIN: You want to have transparency, Sunny Hostin, and this just doesn't look good. SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It doesn't, especially because we're
now learning, at least from what Athena is saying that, they just got this information last week. But we learned very early, I think, in the investigation that five out of the six police officers had given statements. One would think those police officers would have indicated how many times the van had stopped. So the suggestion, I think, or at least the specter is out there that someone wasn't being honest about what happened that day. That's going to be very troubling to any prosecutor trying to put this case together.
BALDWIN: The city prosecutor, also known as the state attorney here in Maryland, is Marilyn Mosby. She's 35 years of age. She is one of several women in this city who - she is about to get incredibly familiar with this case. I just want to play some sound from another woman here, the mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. This is what she said at a luncheon just last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLACK (D), BALTIMORE: We will get justice for Freddie Gray. Believe you me, we'll get justice. We're going to do it because we're going to work together because if with the nation watching, three black women at three different levels can't get justice and healing for this community, you tell me where we're going to get it in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: One of those women, as I mentioned, the state's attorney, Marilyn Mosby. So they got this today. They got it a day ahead of the deadline. How does she stay objective? How does she take what the Baltimore City Police investigated about Baltimore City Police, take it, ingest it, and figure out whether she needs to slap charges on these guys?
HOSTIN: Prosecutors do it often. They certainly get investigations from police officers about police officers. We do have those type of units. All of our prosecutor's offices in the country. You look at it and evaluate it and come to a decision. Prosecutors do it very often. I think the difference is going to be certainly that it is sort of under the nation's guise that she has to make this very difficult decision. But it's not an unusual thing to do.
I will say this. I am not in favor of police investigating their own. I think what is a more appropriate way of handling these kinds of investigations that we have been seeing all around our country is to have an independent investigative team coming in. To be sure, we know there are several investigative teams working on this case. We have two federal investigations, I think, also ongoing. Evan can speak more to that. But there is always that question. How can she be objective when she is now investigating, her office is investigating, people that they work with day in and day out? I think, as a country, we need to move past that model and perhaps have some independent investigators.
BALDWIN: So ultimately, it's up to her whether she'll be charging. Meantime, we'll watch and wait. I was in some of these neighborhoods today. Some of these folks are saying they wanted more today, tomorrow. So there's this march from Santown here to City Hall in the next hour. So I want to talk to those people to see how they're responding to this news that it's been handed over today.
[15:10:08] Finally to you, and you've been talking a lot about this "Washington Post" report, this source, because we knew, as much as I've read about this van and Freddie Gray, we know he wasn't strapped in. We know he was stopped at one point and had leg shackles put on him. We know the van stopped to grab other people off the streets. But this is new. Forgive me, I'm running two different points together. The fact that -- the undisclosed stop, but also the fact from "The Washington Post." What more do we know about that?
PEREZ: Right. You know, the interesting thing about this report, about this -- this actually comes from a police document that's been filed under seal and that was provided to the Post apparently by someone who had concern for the prisoner. The prisoner, by the way, is still in jail. He's provided these statements. He's making a conclusion about what the intent of Freddie Gray was.
BALDWIN: There's a metal partition in the middle of these vans.
PEREZ: Right. And he can hear him thrashing, banging --
BALDWIN: In which would be a supposition.
PEREZ: That's correct. He's making a supposition. I don't think that's something anybody can really do. It's kind of interesting. I don't think it really takes us anymore beyond where we are as far as figuring this out. I'll tell you what. The interviews that this friend of one of the officers gave to CNN --
BALDWIN: Let me stop you there. We have a piece of it. Roll it, Alan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He believes that whatever happened to Mr. Gray happened before he was transported.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Did he hear screaming? Was he in the back - it was saying that he was in the back going crazy maybe and yelling and moving around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was irate. He was cursing. He was yelling. And he was kicking. That's what was heard.
LEMON: What happened first? Was he secured first?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was placed into the wagon with cuffs. He wasn't shackled. He was shackled later en route to where they were going. Because he was irate, they had to stop. At that point, they shackled him. But the officers that shackled him and the officers that placed him in the wagon did not seat belt him.
LEMON: He was never seat belted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. It's an unwritten, unspoken rule that when someone is irate in the paddy wagon, you don't reach over someone that's irate because they still have a mouth, they don't have a muzzle, so they can bite you and they can spit in your face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So again, this is the relative of one of these currently suspended police officers. You were about to make a point.
PEREZ: The point here is that now we have basically the officers pointing fingers at each other. Previously, we've heard from the Police Union, I believe, from their lawyer that they believe whatever happened happened on the van. This person is saying that whatever injury happened, happened before Freddie Gray got on the van. It's going to be left to the state attorney's office to try to figure out which one is telling the truth.
BALDWIN: Evan Perez, Sunny Hostin, thank you both so much.
Coming up next here live from Baltimore, we have all seen the video showing this mother. She's furious with her son for being part of these protests from the other night. Both of them spoke to CNN. They talked to Anderson Cooper. You'll hear that.
And we'll talk with a mother who lost a son to violence in Baltimore. Her reaction to the young people in the city and what parents need to be doing.
And the situation here is sparking protests elsewhere in this nation, including Ferguson, Missouri. We'll tell you what one business owner there said after his door was broken into for the fourth time.
Stay with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.
[15:18:08] BALDWIN: Whether she wanted to be, Baltimore mom Toya Graham is in the spotlight. When the riots really erupted Monday afternoon and into the evening, she caught her son taking part in this whole melee and in turn, a local news camera caught her openly disciplining her teenage child. The display sparked both cheers and jeers. Graham and her son talked to CNN about what was going through their minds in that incredibly emotional moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You saw Michael with the rock in his hand and you say you just lost it.
TOYA GRAHAM, CAUGHT SON RIOTING: I did. You know, once he threw that rock down, I was like, you wasn't brought up like this.
COOPER: Did you worry about embarrassing him? GRAHAM: Not at all. He was actually embarrassing himself by wearing
that mask and that hoodie and doing what he was doing. At some point, I told him to take the mask off because why are you hiding behind the mask? If you want to be bold enough to do this, then show your face.
COOPER: This is something you really believe in.
GRAHAM: Yes, why hide your face?
COOPER: So did he go home then?
GRAHAM: Oh, yes. He went home with me.
COOPER: I had no doubt about that.
GRAHAM: Yes, yes. He went home with me and his sister.
COOPER: I would have gone home with you in a second.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So what did you think when you heard that voice?
MICHAEL SINGLETON, TOYA GRAHAM'S SON: I was like, I know that's my mother. I know that's my mother. Ain't nobody else talk like that but my mother.
COOPER: And then what happened?
SINGLETON: It was just World War III from there.
COOPER: It was World War III?
COOPER: What did you think? Were you embarrassed?
SINGLETON: Yes, I was embarrassed a little bit until she just started talking to me when we got home. Was telling me basically like she did it because she cared about me. It wasn't nothing just to embarrass me. It was just cause she just cared.
COOPER: She was worried about you.
SINGLETON: Right. She didn't want me getting in trouble by no law. She didn't want to be another Freddie Gray or anybody else that got killed by the police.
[15:20:07] COOPER: Do you regret wanting to throw rocks? Can you explain it?
SINGLETON: At first I was just like, I don't care. I don't care about the law, police, period. But my mama talked to me about it. She was just like, what did they do to you? Did they ever hurt you? I'm like, no, they didn't hurt me, but some of my friends are not here because of what they did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let me bring in Kimberly Armstrong. She's a mom and the founder of United Parents of Incarcerated Children and Youth. Her programs fight injustice by empowering young people and families through education and assistance. Kimberly, it's a pleasure.
KIMBERLY ARMSTRONG, FOUNDER, UNITED PARENTS OF INCARCERATED CHILDREN AND YOUTH: Thank you.
BALDWIN: So first, I want to get on to what you do in these communities. But reacting off of Anderson's interview with this mother and her son, you saw that whole thing and you're like, she's a mom.
ARMSTRONG: Exactly. Exactly. You know, she's a parent. As a parent, especially as a mother, our job is to nurture and to protect our children. So she did what she had to do in order to get her son out of that situation so that he didn't get himself in trouble or harmed in some kind of way. I totally agree with, you know -- not so much her impulsive reaction, but what else was she supposed to do?
BALDWIN: She said she cared. That's what she said.
BALDWIN: What do you -- you talk to young people.
BALDWIN: What's your message to them?
ARMSTRONG: My message to them is everything that you do, there is a consequence. When you go out and misbehave and you do things to harm other people, you're going to have to pay a consequence. On the same end, when you go out into the community and give back to the community, the community will give back to you. Whatever you put out into the universe, you will get back.
So the things, you know, for our young people to understand, as well as the message that we send them, is that you have to be a positive -- if you want positive things and positive influences to come to you, you have to put it out there. You can't do what everybody else is doing. If your mother and your parents are investing in you and showing you the right way to live, listen to them. They know what they're talking about. We were children too.
BALDWIN: Listen to our parents is something we all still work on even when we're 35 years of age sometimes. You have a daughter. She's phenomenal, honor roll, headed to college. You have a son who, I'm sure, is lovely. And you lost a son. But you say that your daughter, in terms of dealing with police, what has your daughter shared with you when she sees police and your son?
ARMSTRONG: Well, it's really heartbreaking because we do have these kind of conversations and dialogues that she really doesn't trust the police. She sees how the police have handled situations with me.
BALDWIN: Give me an example.
ARMSTRONG: Example. For instance, when my sons were younger, I had an instance where the police came into my home, they told me to shut the f up, sit the f down, why I was keep asking why were they here. They never gave me an answer. Only because I knew my rights, I was a little bit more empowered. And she was a lot younger then. Also, the interaction she has seen with her brother as well as my nephews. So she has a sense like the police, are they really here to protect us or to really instigate?
BALDWIN: What do you tell her? Final question. How do you talk to your kids about dealings with the police?
ARMSTRONG: Well, I tell them first, listen. If they tell you to stop, stop. If you feel like that you're not being -- there are ways to deal with the police. If you feel like you're being injust, they have the Internal Affairs. But at that moment, if you have any kind of interaction with the police, it's to listen to them. Just stop and listen because you don't want to create a situation where they can use the terminology, I felt threatened by my life, so therefore I had to use deadly force. You don't want to give them that option or that opportunity.
BALDWIN: Listen. Spoken like a wise mom.
ARMSTRONG: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you, Kimberly Armstrong. I appreciate you very much.
Coming up next here on CNN, the outrage here in Baltimore has sparked protests not just in this city but all around the country, including Ferguson, Missouri. In fact, one man is cleaning up a store today after it was looted for the fourth time. We'll share his story with you next.
[15:24:31] Plus, I walked the streets this morning in west Baltimore in a neighborhood where Freddie Gray lived. It's actually known as one of the most dangerous places in this entire state. My conversation with this phenomenal young woman, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROTESTERS: (Chanting) We're young, we're strong, we're marching all night long. We're young, we're strong, we're marching all night long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That is just one of the rallying cries heard last night, not just here in Baltimore but in cities throughout the United States. Thousands of people turned out in the streets. You had Seattle, New York, Minneapolis, Washington, D.C., and really the birthplace, if you want to call it that, of this entire movement, Ferguson, Missouri. Tensions there have been high, of course, ever since August when Darren Wilson, this white police officer, shot and killed this unarmed black teenager, Michael Brown.
So let's go there to Ferguson. You saw her throughout our coverage. She's back. She's Sara Sidner. And I know people gathering there, certainly bringing back some flashbacks of what happened last summer and into the fall. Tell me what people are telling you.
[15:30:02] SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, some of the business owners and residents talked about how when they saw what was going on in Baltimore, it really did bring them back. What we're seeing now, there were two streets, really, that were battered and burned here in Ferguson.