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Focus of Amtrak Crash Shifts to Train Engineer; Passenger Who Died in Amtrak Crash Identified; No Sign of Missing U.S. Helicopter in Nepal; Bush Inadvertently Says He's Running for President. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired May 14, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These two women were catapulted up into the luggage rack.

[05:59:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone was just gushing blood. Everyone was screaming. It was such a state of panic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This train was going 106 miles an hour in a 50-mile-an-hour zone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man at the center of this is that engineer.

MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER, PHILADELPHIA: Clearly, he was reckless and irresponsible.

ROBERT SUMWALT, NTSB MEMBER: To make comments like that is inflammatory at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Positive train control, it's a very expensive braking system.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That was not placed in this portion of the track. If it had been, this crash may well not have happened.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST: It is Thursday, May 14, 6 a.m. in the east. As you see, Alisyn and Mick are in New York, and I'm in Philadelphia, covering breaking developments in the Amtrak crash. We certainly do have new information and some concerns that demand attention.

Speed is the buzz word right now. Why was this train going more than twice the speed allowed around what turned out to be a fateful curve? The train's engineer, Brandon Bostian, initially told police he couldn't recall how fast he was going. His lawyer now says he can't remember the crash.

That raises a question: How can that be, if investigators say it was he, the engineer, who applied the emergency brakes right before the train derailed?

Could this tragedy have been prevented? That is also a big question that demands attention. There are safety systems that could be in place that aren't.

So we have every angle covered, especially with the death toll now up to seven and people still unaccounted for. What is going on in this situation? Here is the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NUTTER: No way in the world a regional train should be doing 106 on a curve.

CUOMO (voice-over): Speed, excessive and deadly speed, may be what catapulted hundreds of Amtrak passengers, sending seven train cars and the engine off their tracks Tuesday night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were all flung up against the window.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were people catapulted up into the luggage bins.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was hit by flying seat.

CUOMO: Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter blaming the engineer at the helm, 32-year-old Brandon Bostian.

NUTTER: Clearly, it was reckless.

CUOMO: Nutter responding to speculation that the engineer might have been speeding to make up for lost time.

NUTTER: I'm sure they would not have minded being another 20, 25, 30 minutes late, as opposed to dying unnecessarily in a train wreck.

SUMWALT: You're not going to hear the NTSB making comments like that.

CUOMO: Still conducting their preliminary investigation, the NTSB's taking issue with the mayor's comments, calling them inflammatory. But they do agree Bostian hit the emergency brakes too late.

SUMWALT: In the next three seconds, three or four seconds, the speed of the train had only decreased to 102.

CUOMO: This surveillance footage, along with initial examination of the data, reveal the train was traveling at 106 miles an hour, twice the appropriate speed entering the sharp turn.

SUMWALT: He was already in the curve at that point. You're supposed to enter the curve at 50 miles an hour.

CUOMO: Bostian spoke to Philadelphia police the night of the crash. And according to a law enforcement source, told them he couldn't recall his speed. His lawyer says he doesn't even remember the crash itself.

ROBERT GOGGIN, ATTORNEY FOR BRANDON BOSTIAN (via phone): He remembers going through that area generally. Has absolutely no recollection of the incident or anything unusual.

CUOMO: Police now in the process of obtaining a search warrant of the engineer's phone records to determine if he was distracted during the time of the crash.

Lawmakers and critics also saying, even if human error is the cause, this crash raises issues about safety systems that still are not in place and could have saved lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Who made this happen and why did it happen at all? Let's get deeper into these questions in the terms of what we do and do not know. We have CNN's transportation and government regulation correspondent, Rene Marsh. Those are the two big questions investigatively this morning. What do we know on them?

RENE MARSH, CNN TRANSPORTATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, you mentioned this, Chris. We know that investigators, they are itching to ask this engineer even more questions beyond that initial comment that he made that he didn't recall his speed. Investigators haven't been able to get anything else from him. He is now lawyered up.

But we do know that the engineer, his name is Brandon Bostian. He's 32 years old. He's from New York. We know that he has been an Amtrak engineer since 2010. And before that he was an Amtrak conductor.

So not only does -- detectives here in Philadelphia want to speak to him, but the NTSB wants to speak to him, as well, as they try to piece together exactly what was going on in the minutes, the seconds before this train derailed.

I want to show you live this morning. These are the tracks we're talking about. This is where it all happened. And we now know from the NTSB that this particular stretch of track where this derailment happened was not equipped with an automated speed control system, which is commonly known as positive train control. We know there are other sections of the Northeast Corridor that does have this technology. But this specific section did not. And the NTSB firmly believes that, had this technology been in place, it could have essentially prevented this sort of thing from happening.

What is positive train control? In simple terms, if a train is going too fast, this technology has the ability to slow the train down. And NTSB thinks that would have made all the difference here, Chris.

CUOMO: Right. And the simple reality is, it could have made a difference, and it matters why it wasn't there. We're going to get into that. Rene, I'll check back with you. Thank you very much.

Let's bring in Robert Sumwalt of the NTSB. He's heading up the investigation.

Thank you for joining us. We know you're very busy. Let's deal with things in terms of urgency. The people who are unaccounted for, that frightens people and makes them think that there may be still something going on at the scene. That's not the reality. How do you see the situation?

SUMWALT: Well, certainly some people just get off the train, they might get a ride home. They're not injured. They're shaken up but not going to the hospital, and they've not reported in. So this is something that the Philadelphia Office of Emergency Management -- management is dealing with. And we hope and pray that everyone has been accounted for at this point.

[06:05:09] CUOMO: And so it's about logistics. It's not about the reality of what still remains at this scene, correct?

SUMWALT: That is correct. It's, of course, not like an airline where we have assigned seats necessarily, and so we know where everybody is.

CUOMO: People just got on at 30th Street Station. They may not have presented the tickets yet. Not everybody shows up. Train is different than plane when it comes to that kind of accountability. Good to have that straight.

Now, in terms of why this happened. Everybody is playing with this idea of speed. Can you confirm that that is a priority in terms of understanding why this happened at this point?

SUMWALT: It is certainly something that we're very interested in. This train was doing over double the maximum authorized speed for this area. So that is something that we're very interested in trying to understand. Why was the train going that fast?

CUOMO: And the NTSB often makes the point in these situations that common sense isn't enough. That, well, he must have done it, end of story. You're looking at a lot of different factors that could play into what anybody in control was doing, like what?

SUMWALT: Absolutely. We're really taking a holistic approach to this accident investigation. Certainly, we would like to interview the engineer and find out what his perspective was. We want to know the mechanical condition of the train. We want to look at the signal system and the tracks, to look at everything that could have led to this occurrence.

CUOMO: It could be equipment. It could be just him. It could be a combination. And you want to be accurate, because it's about what you recommend going forward. We're going to get to that.

His saying through his lawyer he doesn't remember what happened, that smacks familiar. That's what we heard in that situation up in the Bronx in New York. The engineer there said, "I don't remember what happened." People thought he was just covering for himself, but later on wasn't it discovered that he may have had a non-diagnosed form or recognized form of narcolepsy?

SUMWALT: In that particular case you're right. It was a sleep -- sleep disorder that -- I think it was obstructive sleep apnea. But you're right. It's not uncommon when somebody's been through a traumatic event such as this one here, that they don't remember things leading up to the accident.

CUOMO: So you're not necessarily suspicious because the engineer has said that at this point?

SUMWALT: No, we have not personally interviewed the engineer ourselves and we hope -- hope to have that opportunity very soon.

CUOMO: Toxicology is not your bailiwick in this, right? That's up to Amtrak to do those kinds of blood tests?

SUMWALT: Yes, Amtrak is required to do that by federal law.

CUOMO: But he doesn't have to give them the information, and he doesn't have to talk to any of you. Right? He could just retain his right to not participate in this, and if anything happens, it happens.

SUMWALT: Absolutely. But in most transportation accidents, people will talk to the NTSB, because we're interested in nothing more than improving the safety of our transportation system.

CUOMO: All right. Now the big question. I know politicians are fighting over how much money to give to Amtrak and that it's wasteful spending. I know that debate's going on. But that is coloring people's perception of the reality of what might have made a difference here. In your opinion as someone who's heading up the investigation, did this have to happen the way it happened?

SUMWALT: Well, we have -- at the NTSB have long advocated and called for positive train control. And positive train control, which is required by law to be implemented by the end of this year, positive train control is designed to prevent the very type of an accident that we're dealing with here.

CUOMO: People will push back and they'll say, "No, no, no, it's his fault. He did it. That's the answer. Forget about infrastructure. I don't want to hear it." What's your response?

SUMWALT: The fact is, is that humans make mistakes. We've seen that over the years. So we need a system that will provide redundancy so that when that error does occur, the positive train control will kick in and say, "Hey, I'm not going to let you make that mistake to hurt us all." And that's what PTC does.

CUOMO: Now, if it sounds like I'm leading the interviewee here, Mr. Sumwalt, it's because I am. Because we keep hearing about this situation and it gets ignored because of the politics involved. That's my suggestion. Just to be clear: if he's going too fast, if he's negligent,

whatever the findings are, let's assume the worst. That still doesn't have to mean necessarily that these people would have died, that this would have been hurt because the tracks themselves could have made a difference, the software, the controls on the tracks. Explain that to me.

SUMWALT: Well, you're certainly not leading me on this, because positive train control is something that the NTSB has long recognized will save lives. So we've long called for it.

CUOMO: Why hasn't it been done as far as you know?

SUMWALT: Well, I think that would best be explained by the railroads and the Federal Railroad Administration.

CUOMO: It certainly hasn't been done and is supposed to be done by the end of this year. That should have -- that really should have been here already, this system in place, yes?

SUMWALT: Well, not required until the end of the year. In fact, most of the tracks up in this part of the country, the northeast sector, are covered by some version of positive train control. For some reason, this particular area has not been -- has not been installed.

CUOMO: And it matters. Even if you find that specifically in this case this is about human error, it's about speed, even if. I know those are assumptions at this point. You don't want to get ahead of it. But even assuming that, there's still a big part of this story that needs to be told about the infrastructure and how we keep people safe on the rails. Is that fair?

[06:10:03] SUMWALT: Absolutely. Positive train control will save lives.

CUOMO: Mr. Sumwalt, I know you have a lot of work in front of you. And I don't mean to get you caught up in politics. You've got a cleaner version of reality than that ahead of you. Thank you for talking to us. We'll keep checking in.

SUMWALT: Thank you, Chris. Thank you very much.

CUOMO: Appreciate it.

Now, the reason that we're pushing this issue about what we could have done and what we should do to make this less likely is because of the human cost. It's not about just money and politics. It's about people who lost their lives. Their families who will never get back these seven people. There are hundreds who were injured.

So now who are those people? Five of the seven have been identified. Eight more people are still in critical condition. We know that hundreds have been hurt by this. So that's an important part of what drives the interest here. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is outside Temple University Medical Center

in Philadelphia checking in on the latest conditions of people and what we know about who was hurt and why -- Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, there are still an untold number of people who are still unaccounted for. And according to "The Philadelphia Inquirer," they are reporting this morning that as many as 12 people may still be missing. Among them we know is Robert Gildersleeve. He's a 45-year-old executive and father from Baltimore.

But we are starting to know more about those seven killed, five of which have been identified. Among them is 39-year-old Rachel Jacobs. She is a mother of two from New York City and is also -- was also a chief executive of a small tech company.

Also, Justin Zemser. He was a 20-year-old midshipman, a sophomore at the U.S. Naval Academy, and he was on his way home to New York.

Now Chris, we're here outside Temple University Hospital here, where over 20 people remain hospitalized, eight still in critical condition. And according to the medical chief, there are three major surgeries scheduled for later today -- Chris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Standing by.

CUOMO: Alright. So we're tracking those who were lost, those who are still being treated, and of course, we're going to have just all of the implications for people who are on that train and are still dealing with it today.

And now, of course what happened here in Philadelphia is going to make a big difference on the nation's busiest railroad. It's called the Northeast Corridor. It goes between New York and Philadelphia. And service is obviously interrupted, because tracks are twisted into ribbons. So we have CNN's Brian Stelter. He's at Penn Station with that part of the story for us -- Brian.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, the announcement inside Penn Station this morning is that service remains suspended indefinitely. The words they're using are "until further notice."

Now right now, some trains are moving north of New York here and south of Philadelphia where you are, but it's as if there's been a giant hole punched in the middle of the Northeast Corridor, which is really the rail line where the nation's business gets done.

As you know, it's the kind of train where politicians and executives are all riding together. One of the last times I was on the plane, I overheard people talking about an upcoming merger. I don't think they realized I was listening in.

You look at the data, you can see by the numbers how important this rail line is. More than 750,000 passengers per day. By one estimate, this is a hit to the economy of about $100 million per day when rail service is suspended.

To put it in perspective, we're talking about a rail line that is more than four times more popular, more commonly used than the next biggest rail line in the United States. That just goes to show that, for Americans watching elsewhere in the country who don't really rely on the rails, goes to show how important it is between Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Washington.

And, Chris, this is all just a reminder, among other things, a reminder that there is no real backup. Some people are taking buses. Some are taking planes. Some flights have been added between New York and Washington, for example. But there is no rail backup. There is no extra line for these trains to be running.

Mayor Nutter said yesterday he believes there will be no service through Philadelphia through the end of the week.

CUOMO: All right, Brian, thank you for that strong point. There is no backup. That's true. And that's why we're going to monitor it throughout the week until it changes for the better.

And it's important to repeat, Alisyn: investigators tell us they are riding the trains. They are controlling the scene there. No one has been found at the scene. That's not why people are unaccounted for. So that's important for people to know.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CO-HOST: OK. Thank you for that, Chris. We'll get back to you momentarily.

But we do have some breaking international news overnight to tell you about. At least 67 people killed in a factory fire in the northern Philippines. Recovery operations ongoing at this hour at the shoe factory in Valenzuela City. That's just north of Manila. It's believed that sparks from welding work ignited the fire when they hit some chemicals, sending thick smoke into the air. Five people were pulled alive from that burning factory.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Still, no sign of a U.S. military chopper that went down -- or missing, rather, in Nepal. We don't know if it's gone down. Six U.S. Marines and two service members from Nepal were onboard. The crew was helping with earthquake relief efforts Tuesday night when radio contact was lost. Want to bring in Will Ripley, who is live from Kathmandu on the latest for the search.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, this is where search helicopters from three countries are taking off and landing. The United States, India and Nepal all involved here with the Americans leading the effort.

[06:15:05] You can take a look at the new video this morning showing the U.S. Marine Ospreys heading out to the search area. They divided the zone in three different sectors each country is focusing on. There are also 400 Nepali troops on the ground right now, hiking through difficult terrain. And the focus will continue to shift towards this ground search as the visual continues to come up empty, with just a few more hours of daylight left here in Nepal. I want to show you a map of the two earthquakes that struck this

country. A major 7.3 earthquake this week. And of course, that 7.8; that was on April 25. The search efforts are focusing on the eastern location. One quake happened in the east of Kathmandu. The other happened to the west. Search crews right now are in the east.

And if you take a look at the numbers, they are really staggering, thinking about the death toll: 8,250 people confirmed dead, 2,427 injured. And of course, tens of thousands of people remain homeless right now because of the extensive damage from both of those large earthquakes and all of the aftershocks.

And there are also concerns this morning, Alisyn, that bureaucracy is preventing aid from getting to people as quickly as they need it. A lot of people who don't have what they need right now, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my goodness. Let's hope that they can clear up all that red tape and everything that is an impediment there. Will, thank you so much for that.

Meanwhile, one of the Secret Service agents accused of driving drunk through an active bomb investigation at the White House back in March now plans to retire. A law enforcement source telling CNN that Mark Connolly, who was the second ranking agent on President Obama's detail, is leaving. The news coming ahead of today's release of that report that found Connolly and George Ogilvie were, quote, "more likely than not impaired by alcohol."

A House hearing scheduled for this afternoon.

PEREIRA: Was there a Wells Report on this drinking incident with the Secret Service? "More likely than not"?

CAMEROTA: The vagueness we've heard this week.

PEREIRA: I know. And I thought that you could be pretty sure. Those, you know, breathalyzer tests are pretty exact, are they not?

CAMEROTA: Yes, but they didn't take one in the field.

PEREIRA: There is that. There is that.

CAMEROTA: All right. Stay with CNN for continuing coverage of the deadly Amtrak derailment in Philadelphia.

Also, did Jeb Bush just let the cat out of the bag? That slip of the tongue that has everybody talking. We're going to play his words and let you decide what you think.

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[06:20:47] JEB BUSH, FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: I'm running for president in 2016 and the focus is going to be about how we, if I run, how do you create high sustained economic growth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Oopsy daisy. Did Jeb Bush just accidentally announce that he's running for president? And that's just the latest verbal stumble for the likely GOP candidate.

Let's talk about all this with CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast" John Avlon and CNN political commentator and Republican consultant Margaret Hoover.

Great to see you. Why doesn't Jeb Bush just end this silly guessing game and announce already that he's running?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, this is one of those things that, to every voter, smacks of inauthenticity; and what they want is authenticity in their politicians.

The problem is, there are, in Jeb Bush's defense, real legal reasons he doesn't say he's running for president yet. As soon as he says he's running for president, suddenly what he can raise from funders is half as much as if he just is running a political action committee; and he can build out the entire campaign apparatus, have a policy shop, have all the staff for $5,000 from every individual instead of $2,700.

PEREIRA: Is there any way he can somehow say that instead of leaving that sort of floating out there like a foul smell.

HOOVER: I mean, it's technically not inauthentic. It's like this is what they have to do because of our campaign finance laws.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: But the problem -- I mean, the problem is the money and our politics make people act awkward, dumb and actually puts the process and the donors ahead of ideas and democracy.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean...

HOOVER: I don't think so. What happens is a lot of these candidates are already Senate candidates. They're able to have a policy shop and all this stuff, because they're using their staff from the Senate campaign or from their gubernatorial staff, and they're volunteering. Jeb doesn't have that advantage. He hasn't been in office for ten years. So he actually has to build that...

CAMEROTA: But I actually think that that makes sense. I mean, you've -- you've clarified it better than, certainly, he has. And that makes sense. There are protocol reasons why it has to happen in a certain way.

HOOVER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But let's talk about his other stumble this week and that is that he -- I mean, this question of whether he would have done -- gone into Iraq the same way that his brother did continues to hound him, in part because he seems to be casting about for a response. Watch his evolution of answers throughout the week on this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I would have. And so would have Hillary Clinton, just to remind everybody. And so would have almost everybody that was confronted with the intelligence they got.

(via phone): I don't know what that decision would have been. That's a hypothetical, but the simple fact is mistakes were made.

(on camera): Given the power of looking back and having that, of course, anybody would have made different decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Margaret, I heard your deep sigh during that. There -- how is there a possibility that somebody with that last name would not have sat down with his group of advisers and consultants and come out with a game plan? Because they knew the question was coming.

HOOVER: Michaela, he didn't even have to sit down with his advisers. He could have just picked up his brother's memoir and read what George W. Bush says about the Iraq war.

George W. Bush, in "Decision Point," says, "It makes me sick every time I think about the fact that I falsely -- that we went to war on a false premise." I mean, he doesn't have to throw his brother under the bus. His brother has taken responsibility for going to war when there were no weapons of mass destruction.

So -- so what it shows is somebody who is either, A, fundamentally uncomfortable with foreign policy and doesn't know how to navigate it; B, maybe has a complicated relationship with his brother and doesn't quite understand how to navigate the fact -- but also, here's the worst point. When you're a Bush and you're the third person from your family running for president, that -- there are many advantages that come with it, but there are a lot of disadvantages.

AVLON: So get out in front of it.

HOOVER: It cuts both ways. You've got to do the thinking on the front end.

CAMEROTA: So John, why didn't he practice that response?

AVLON: Yes, world's most anticipatable question, total face plant and the agony of seeing him navigate it has been really distracting.

The first question is clearly what they rehearsed: "Hillary Clinton would have supported it based on the time." You know, the inability to kind of move around it for fear of presumably seeming to criticize his brother really does show a lack of perspective and follow through. He's got his own political team. It's actually distinct from his brothers. He's got to get his own advisors and his own policy vision. Remember, his brother's foreign policy was actually, in some

ways, a repudiation of his father's. The fact we're all talking about this interfamilial policy is sort of creepy in itself.

[06:25:07] CAMEROTA: But Margaret, isn't he using the same foreign policy advisers that George W. Bush used?

HOOVER: Well, he has -- yes, he had a rollout where he had 20 new advisers, and about 19 or 18 of them were from the George W. Bush administration. However, they were -- they are very titular in title. I don't think he's calling up James Baker every day or calling up George Schultz. Those guys are like 80 or 90.

CAMEROTA: But given the baggage of George W. Bush's foreign policy, why use the same people?

HOOVER: It's a great question. I mean, everybody sort of questioned at the rollout. Why did he roll it out this way and a smack (ph) to his brother's administration.

PEREIRA: I want to pivot real quickly, if we can, to Martin O'Malley. We understand that he is set to make an announcement on May 30. CNN has learned that. An aide says that he is, quote unquote, "inclined to run."

Couple of questions here, because given the temperature in America right now and given that many people think that the former governor of Maryland, the former mayor of Baltimore, given what's going on in Baltimore, is it wise? Is it prudent of him? Is it a lack of judgment for him to decide to run now? And also to announce that possibility in Baltimore?

AVLON: No. I think you've got to own who you are and your experience. I think the real question will be how does he actually turn his experience into a national campaign asset? How does he define his campaign in contrast to Hillary Clinton's?

I mean, he -- it's very unusual to have a mayor. And he was a successful mayor, run for president. But he's got to own that experience. And then own the recent history in Baltimore to make a national point that makes him relevant. Right now he's been kicking around Iowa, but he hasn't been gaining real traction.

HOOVER: Well, and he's also had -- talk about a face plant. I mean, here's a guy who was the mayor of Baltimore. He was actually, by many people in Baltimore, blamed for a lot of the policies that have led to this place.

He had an opportunity. He was in Europe when Baltimore was on fire. Came back, had an opportunity to really make it a campaign backdrop and try to play real positively. And it actually really landed on his face. They thought that he was posturing. They started blaming him, finger pointing. It actually made him look worse coming back.

So to change that narrative, I think, is going to be a real challenge for him.

CAMEROTA: We'll see how he does that at the end of May. Margaret, John, thanks so much.

Let's go back to our breaking news coverage with Chris Cuomo, who is there for us in Philadelphia.

CUOMO: All right. Good morning to you. And we do have new information. And we do have big questions. People are talking about whether or not this needed to happen here. Why don't we have the safety systems in place that so many other countries do? Some politicians say about money. Is that really the issue? Or is this about management? We're going to take it on when we come back.

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