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Dave Letterman Wrapping Up a 33-Year Career; Bill Cosby May Face One Accuser in Court; 170 Bikers Behind Bars; Suspect IDed in DC Murder MysterY. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 20, 2015 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: You are looking live right now. That is the Ed Sullivan Theater right here in New York City that is home for now, "David Letterman's Late Show".

This is CNN. I'm Don Lemon. After 6,028 shows, 19,932 guests, 4,605 top 10 lists, not to mention 16 Emmys, Dave is wrapping up his incredible 33-year career. Tonight, I'm going to talk to the man who says we may not have seen the last of Letterman, a guy who's been on this show 150 times. His most frequent guest none other than Regis Philbin.

Plus, Bill Cosby Bombshell. Will the man they called America's dad, finally face off to get one of his accusers. Janice Dickinson says, Cosby raped her. Now, she's taking him to court.

JANICE DICKINSON, MODEL: I want justice. I want justice, Don.

LEMON: That and more tonight. But I want to begin with what everybody is talking about, and that's David Letterman's all-star farewell show. Mr. Brian Stelter is live for us outside that Ed Sullivan Theater. So, you've been out there all day. Show is in the can. What can you tell us about it? What do you know, Brian Stelter?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you a lot of David's staffer is over at the bar, Don. Letterman left the stage. He said he's never coming back to this building. That's how final this finale is. There are lot of surprises in the episode.

In fact, there is an extra 20 minutes long because he tape a little extra today and then his closing monologue he gave credit to his wife and son for being in the crowd. You know, he's an intensely private guy. So, that was actually a big deal.

We also saw several former presidents, as well as President Obama, they all appeared and the videos. And of course there were montasio (ph) and A-list stars. We saw Steve Martin, we saw Tina Fey, Julia Louis Dreyfus, Alec Baldwin, a whole cast of characters were there for his final top 10 list.

LEMON: And we're looking at some of the pictures, Chris Rock among others. My question is, you said it was 20 minutes longer. Are they going to run it in its entirety? STELTER: Right. They are. They had to decide that a couple hours ago.

Yes, they are going to run the whole thing. James Corden, will come on a little late of unusual tonight.

You know, Letterman and all the late night shows increasingly about on demand, about people time shifting watching on their own terms, watching on the web the next day. But this finale is a great example of live event TV. There were hundreds of fans out here waiting to see a glimpse of Letterman or his stars tonight. And that is just an example of how big a moment this is, it's an actual end of an era.

LEMON: Yes. It certainly is. Brian Stelter, with the assignment of the evening. Thank you, Brian. David Letterman has walked out on stage in front of studio audience if for more than 6,000 times. Here he is doing it again tonight for his final late show. His tally of guests, an incredible 19,932, that is before tonight's finale.


LEMON: Joining me now on the phone, David Letterman's most frequent guest, and that's Regis Philbin. I would say Regis, the best guest. You are amazing that night.

REGIS PHILBIN, TV HOST: Well, but thanks very much, Don. I did that a lot of time, but don't bother. It's great to be a part of that.

LEMON: Yes. Do you ever age when you look back on this -- when you -- I guess when you look back at your appearances on the show, what have you, had over a 150?

PHILBIN: I think it's 136 I think is the count. It changes every time I hear it.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. 6,028 shows, tonight's a big finale.


LEMON: "The late show with David Letterman." What are you going to miss most about your friend, about being on air every night?

PHILBIN: Well, you know, I mean, when you get used to seeing a guy that you know is going to be there for you every night, I think it's going to be terrible, not only for all of his viewers, these thousands of people who have grown up with him, but for himself as well.

LEMON: I always watch you Regs, and you learn from certain people, I learn from him, I learn from you. You were such a gracious host; he's such a gracious host. He doesn't insult his guest. You're in on the joke. Is that -- was that part of you think his success?

PHILBIN: I think so. Oh, yes. Now, I mean, there are a lot of guys that get a little wild with their guests and put them down and so on and get laughs out of that. But Dave doesn't do that. When you're on the show with him, you're having fun with him and he's having fun with you, and the audience loves it. [22:04:58] LEMON: You know, three years ago you filled in here on CNN

as a guest host. It was Pierce Morgan and the only guest you wanted on the show was David Letterman.


LEMON: Why is that?

LEMON: Well, because I thought he would be something different on the show. You now, you don't see Dave anywhere. As a matter of fact, I don't know why but he's been on my show a number of times on my old talk show and then came this thing of CNN and I thought well, he's going to say, no, but he came, and spent an hour, and we talked about a lot of things that you don't hear him talk about on -- hear about of talk it at anywhere except on that particular night. He talks about how much he loved Johnny Carson and it was a very good night for all of us, I think.

LEMON: Yes. Well, the thing is he doesn't like talking about himself. You got an exclusive. You got him to talk about himself. He was so uncomfortable looking back at his career. Take a look at this. Let's listen to this.



DAVID LETTERMAN, COMEDIAN: I hitchhike over here this evening and this guy stops me and picks me up. He's driving an old beat up Dodge with a vet frame, that kind of go in a freeway at an angle like then. Right away I'm apprehensive about getting in.

You know, the guy driving the car is wearing a cowboy hat and a hospital gown, so. And he's roll -- and the thing that bothers me most of all about him, he's rolling the biggest joint I'd ever seen in my entire life. He was using Pampers and a...


PHILBIN: I had a feeling that when we shot on the show tonight you're going to being looking a lot outside the comedy store.

LETTERMAN: Thank you.

PHILBIN: I hope you come back with us.

LETTERMAN: I love to.

PHILBIN: Yes. He predicted it right there that you were going to be a big hit.

LETTERMAN: Please don't roll anymore tape.

PHILBIN: Really?

LETTERMAN: No, I'm coming across the table if you roll another tape. PHILBIN: No kidding.

LETTERMAN: It will really be blood shed right here.

PHILBIN: We work to...

LETTERMAN: I can take you.

PHILBIN: We work it so much.

LETTERMAN: I don't care. I want anymore tape.

PHILBIN: But we're not going to do it. You heard him. Cancel the tape.


LEMON: He was really uncomfortable. How do you think he's handling all these high light reels?

PHILBIN: Well, he's smiling through it but, you know, that's him. The guy we just listened to on the CNN show. He really didn't enjoy the tapes he'd, you know, being saved. But he understands this is like the end of it, I hope not, in fact, Don, I hope he comes back on the weekend, like I said. But anyway, it was quite funny and I enjoyed it.

LEMON: You know, this is back in 2007.


LEMON: You had open heart surgery back then. Seven days earlier Dave famously underwent emergency heart surgery at the same hospital. How did he help you get through that surgery?

PHILBIN: Well, you know, he had about two or six years before I did. So, when I found out that I had to have some kind of heart -- of this, I called him immediately and he said, look, let me handle this. Here is the way we're going to do it.

And he picked out the hospital, he picked the room, he picked out the doctors, don't worry about a thing and they'll call you, they'll tell you when, you go. It's going to be fine.


PHILBIN: And so, there's a little story here. So, anyway, he sets the whole thing up, and I say, great, that he knows what he's doing, he's been through it. So, of course, I can't sleep. They wanted to pick me up at 600 a.m., I said, fine, I'll be there. But I can't sleep.

So, I decided to tune in his show. And he's telling his audience, you know, Regis is going to go into a hospital tomorrow morning, they're going to work on his heart and, of course they're going to take him in and put him on a gurney and take all his clothes off, put him on a gurney and take him into the room and break his heart open like a lobster. Well, I got out of bed, I couldn't sleep. I didn't sleep all day. How dare he tell that story. Anyway, we had a lot of fun and the operation was a success and he really knew what he was talking about.

LEMON: You mentioned early, Regs, when you hosted the show here on CNN, you too also spoke movingly about the last time Dave saw his hero, Johnny Carson.


LETTERMAN: The last time that I saw him, we were talking about it earlier today, of course the way life is, you don't know that that would be the time but it turned out to be the last time and it couldn't have been a lovelier evening and I cherish that because it was unusual, it was not going to happen under any other circumstances.

And it was my wife, myself, Johnny and his wife on Johnny's yacht that he had anchored in the Hudson. And it was a Friday evening and we sailed off just before sunset and went up the Hudson up under the George Washington Bridge, which is lovely, turned around.

[22:10:01] Now the sun is setting, we go out to the Statue of Liberty and see that at night as the sky is darkening and then you turned around and we headed up the east river and you see the lower tip of Manhattan and the Twin Towers were still there, and it was a site and an experience like you've never, you know, you never get to see New York like that.


LEMON: You spoke about 9/11 too. So, even after all the success and, you know, Johnny being his hero, did he ever truly get over it when NBC gave the tonight show to Jay instead of him?

PHILBIN: That hurt him a lot. All that hurt him a lot. I mean, he really wanted it. He -- and I guess he even expected it. But it didn't go that way for him and he immediately left and came over to CBS and started his own show at 11.30.

I felt sorry for him because he loved Johnny Carson and just like Johnny, he is a terrific host on a show like this, you know. So, it was too bad but, hey, listen, maybe it worked out just great for him, for the CBS and for him that he didn't follow Johnny at his desk, you know.

LEMON: Yes. Because he was able to forge his own path in a way that he wanted to do it.

PHILBIN: He knows this business; he knows this business inside out. I think he's going to be great and I hope that he continues. I don't like to see him quit. I mean, he's in his 60s, he's still young, he is great, he is all put together. His heart is working. I mean, come on. One night a week, he is going to need that, believe me, Don, he's going to want to come back.

LEMON: Yes. And I think he will in some form or fashion. He'll do it on his own terms, much the way he has led his entire career. As you said, going with CBS and doing it his way. So, finally, Stephen Colbert is going to replace Dave in September. How do you think will he stack up to your friend?

PHILBIN: Well, I think it's going to be a different way to go. You know, Stephen -- you know, haven't seen that much of Stephen but he is playing another person, isn't he?

LEMON: Yes. He's playing a character on his show.


LEMON: Or he did on the Colbert reports, not on anymore. But if you meet him in person, and I've met in person as on his show, it's striking, it sort of jars you, Regs, when you talk to him, you're like, wait a minute, you're not the character, you're actually a real person. So, I don't -- you know, let's see how he pulls it off.

PHILBIN: Yes, exactly. But people love this guy too, and think he's got a lot of a good stuff and boy, he was quick. I think, last move he's made his decision right away when he heard that Johnny had that -- Dave was not going to continue.

He called up and got this guy. So, he knows what he's doing and I'm sure Colbert has his own followers too. I -- probably going to be fine.


PHILBIN: It's just that you get used to one guy, you know, and you see him all these years then you certainly going to -- just not the thing when the next guy comes in.

LEMON: You got a message for your buddy?

PHILBIN: You got one for me?

LEMON: No, do you got a message for Dave?

PHILBIN: For Dave. Dave. Listen to me, listen to me. You don't have to work five days a week, you'll work on Sunday night. Everybody wants somebody on Sunday nights. And from 10 to 11 that would be perfect. OK. But after if they can't do you before the news, right after the news. It's your show to talk about what happened that week. I think it's a must.

LEMON: Yes. You're just like the rest of us, you don't want to let him go. Thank you, Regis.

PHILBIN: That's right.

LEMON: It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I'm honored.

PHILBIN: Thanks, Don. I think you're doing a terrific job over there and keep it up. Will you?

LEMON: Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

PHILBIN: OK, buddy. Bye-bye.

LEMON: Bye. You got to love, you've got to love Regs. He is a national treasure. We've got a lot more on David Letterman's finale coming up.

First saw, in the spirit of David Letterman we bring you a little something that we're calling a rand-cam, a live look at Kentucky sooner Rand Paul and his friends there who took to the Senate floor at 1.18 this afternoon, to protest the Patriot Act.

He has been speaking and having a partner with him for a while now speaking ever since with a little help from Oregon Senator, Ron Widen. So, what's this all about? Whether to reauthorize parts of the Patriot Act which expires at midnight on June 1st.

We'll be firing up our rand-cam but I'll check out sooner with Rand Paul throughout the night. So, make sure you stay tuned for that.

[22:14:51] When we come right back here though, the stars, the surprises and what one of his writers says about David's extraordinary 33-year career, plus 33-year career, plus a supermodel demands her day in court why Janice Dickinson may finally be able to confront the man she says raped her more than 30 years ago, Bill Cosby.


WILLIS: Just like his hero, Johnny Carson, David Letterman has changed the American pop culture. The top 10 list is iconic. His show and his brand of comedy, well, they have inspired a generation of young comics hosting late night shows.

But let's discuss this with now with Spike Fereston, one of Letterman's former writers who the host of Car Matchmaker on Esquire Network. Season 2 begins on June 24th. June 24th, I'll be watching. And also with me is Jeetendr Sehdev of a Celebrity Branding Authority. He's an authority by the way, and a professor of marketing at USC.

Gentleman, it's good to have you on tonight. Thank you for coming on and talking about Dave. So, Spike...


LEMON: ... I'm going to start with you. You wrote for the Late Show. Everyone is showing up for Dave's late night show. Jerry Seinfeld, Alec Baldwin, Tina Fey, Jim Carey, Steve Martin, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, I mean the list goes on and on and on. There are some of the pictures there. It is really the end of an era. He meant a lot to a lot of people.

FERESTON: Yes. This is a big night for a lot of people. For me, personally, this is the guy that got me into television. I was just a music student in Boston. I would come home I would watch the show and I could not believe what I was seeing night after night. [22:20:03] And it just spoke to me like it spoke to a lot of folks from my generation and it inspired so many different writers and comedians. Because really it was this beacon of irreverent comedy that did not exist in the world at that time.

LEMON: Yes. And you -- but, how so,-- I remember watching, you know, the '90s with a guy who lived under the seats and then he always wore double breasted and he was hipper and cooler. I mean, everybody loved Johnny. With he comes on after and he was hipper and cooler. All the cool kids watched Letterman.

FERESTON: Yes, you could see things that you wouldn't see on a late night show or any kind of show. If you remember when Dave had to drill a hole in his desk to put the microphone wire through.


FERESTON: He did it in real time with no -- without worrying at all about the countdown clock. And you're just watching the guy drill a hole in a desk and you're like, this is ground breaking.

LEMON: Yes. I want to take a look at one of your favorites. This is one of your favorite moments on the show. Take a look at this.



LETTERMAN: Our old friend, Peggy, the foul mouthed chamber made. Here she is. Peggy, nice to see you.

KATHLEEN ANKERS, THE LETTERMAN LATE NIGHT SHOW CHARACTER: You're so full of (bleep) I just hope your (bleep) falls out. You.



LEMON: So, you wrote that. Why was Letterman and Peggy the foul mouthed chamber made such a game changer?

FERESTON: Well, first of all that Kathleen Ankers. I believe she worked down at the prop department. She had that wonderful British accent and I was thinking, would it be just wonderful if she just came under the stage and started swearing to Dave.

And what's groundbreaking about it is, up until that point, no one had walked onto a late night set and said obscenities right in front of the audience. Usually, you weren't even allowed to say things like that in front of the studio audience, let alone a home audience.


FERESTON: But Dave gave the green light to it and we did it. And as you can hear it, that's what the audience really reacting to there, not just her obscenities, but the fact that they're actually hearing it during the course of a studio taping.

LEMON: Yes. And now you see it now even with Kimmel, he has, you know, he has an aunt, I forget her aunt, I'm sorry, I forget her name and she's foul mouthed. And so, a lot of people got, you know, I guess imitation is the best form of flattery. But, Jeetendr, how did he keep it real for more than 6,000 late night broadcasts?

JEETENDR SEHDEV, CELEBRITY BRANDING AUTHORITY: And I think that's the exact question. Authenticity does not go out of style, even over 33 years. And really, you know, David Letterman's key to success was doing exactly that, to keeping it real. You know, we saw the vulnerable David Letterman, when he, you know, his extra marital affair was kind of exposed.

We saw defensive David Letterman off in mind and lovely we saw how visibly shaken. And essentially that was David Letterman's key to success. Audiences were so relieved that he was not a TV personality, he was a real person. And I think that, you know, that even today is resonating so much, even with the younger generation. So, there's something that we can all learn from David Letterman in that sense.

LEMON: It's interesting because I think that he and Johnny were similar. I mean, you know, people, you know, they get a lot of guesses about what Johnny was like in person. The same thing with David, they were both very private men. But once they got on stage, I mean, they just lit up. They were in their elements Jeetendr.

SEHDEV: They absolutely were. I think that Johnny reset me seeing as being somebody who is a bit more of a persona than he's being actually being who he was. You know, David Letterman was the conscience of America in many ways. You know, he was asking the questions and he was saying the things that were on the audience's minds. I mean, that sense he was the voice of America, and he was very brave and he was very unabashed in that sense.

And so, he did stand out from that perspective. When we look at his rankings from a genuineness and a sincerities versus the like of even the beloved Oprah, you know, we see that she -- he ranks much higher than the likes of Charley rose, he ranks higher than Jimmy Kimmel. I mean, we allowed David Letterman to get away with murder and the reason why we did that was because we really got him.

LEMON: Right.

SEHDEV: And he really got the audience.

LEMON: Jeetendr, Spike, thank you very much. I appreciate you gentleman joining us.

FERESTON: Thanks for having us.

LEMON: Thank you. Coming up, Bill Cosby Bombshell, a woman who accuses him of rape, file as lawsuit. I'm going to talk to her and her attorney in a prime time exclusive interview. Next.

[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Bill Cosby may have to face one of his accusers in court. Model Janice Dickinson, claims Cosby raped her more than 30 years ago. The statute of limitations has ran out on criminal charges, so, she's filing a defamation suit because Cosby's lawyer, the lawyer called rape accusation a lie.

In a moment, Dickinson and her attorney tell why they think they have a case. But I want you to listen to what Cosby about the mounting sex allegations -- sex abuse allegations against him in an interview on ABC's Good Morning America.


BILL COSBY BOMBSHELL, ACCUSED OF RAPE BY JANICE DICKINSON: I have been in this business 52 years and I will -- I've never seen anything like this. And reality is the situation and I can't speak.


LEMON: Joining me now for a primetime exclusive interview, Janice Dickinson and Lisa Bloom. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing this with us I appreciate it. OK.

LISA BLOOM, DICKINSON'S LAWYER: Thanks for having us.

DICKINSON: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: So, Janice, you accused Bill Cosby, of drugging and raping you as back in 1982, but couldn't bring criminal charges against him because of statute of limitations. Now you're suing him for defamation and intentional affliction of emotional distress. Why?

DICKINSON: I have a very powerful woman sitting next to me that believes me, she has heard my story.

[22:30:00] She has grilled me about a trillion times. She supports me. I'm telling you the truth and anyone out here that's listening that it's -- I want justice. I want justice, Don. I want Lisa Bloom to depose Bill Cosby, get him on the stand in front of a jury and let law decide.

LEMON: We're going to get into that. I'm going to talk about the possibility of depositions and what depositions and what that might lead to. OK? But first, I want to give the statement here from Bill Cosby's attorney and then we can talk more about it. They're basically calling you a liar. Here's what the attorneys says in their statement.

"Janice Dickinson's story accusing Bill Cosby of rape is a lie. There's a glaring contradiction between what she is claiming now for the first time and what she wrote in her own book and what she told the media back in 2002. The only story she gave 12 years ago to the media and in her autobiography was she refused to sleep with Mr. Cosby and he blew her off. Documentary proof and Ms. Dickinson's own words show that her new story about something she now claims happened back in 1982 is a fabricated lie." We have read that statement before. They gave that statement earlier. So, Lisa, as the attorney I have to ask you this. Bill Cosby's people say the rape never happen. So, the accusation is a lie. How do you prove defamation and emotional distress then?

BLOOM: So, the statement that you just raised is the basis for our lawsuit for defamation. Because calling Janice Dickinson a liar is a defamatory statement under the law. And that was the mistake that Bill Cosby made. It was too late for her to sue for rape or for drugging.

But once he threw his representatives call her liar she had a fresh claim for defamation and that's the lawsuit that we filed today. And let's get into it, let's go to court and let Janice prove her case, that she was not lying when she said that he drugged and raped her.

And as Bill Cosby and his team knows, Janice has corroborating evidence in the form of witness statements from 10 years, more than 10 years ago, where she said she very much wanted her book to include her rape disclosure. And Janice Dickinson told witnesses more than 10 years ago that she was drugged and raped by Bill Cosby.

Well, before any other woman came forward. That's what alleged in out complaint. Bill Cosby and his team know, we ask them to retract their accusation that she was a liar, they refused to do it and hence, this lawsuit.

LEMON: That ghost writer his name is Pablo Fenjves, I believe.

BLOOM: Fenjves.

LEMON: Fenjves.


LEMON: So, Janice that you did tell him about the rape at the time. Let's listen and then you can respond, Janice. Let's listen.


PABLO FENJVES, SCREENWRITER AND GHOSTWRITER: She wanted to have, you know, a fair amount of detail and she was pretty distraught. The memory was, you know, had her pretty shaken up and I told her, you know, I'm sorry but I don't think we can use any of this. We will never be able to get this pass the attorneys at Harper Collins.


LEMON: So, Janice, it was the ghostwriter then or not the publisher who decided that it should not go in. No?

DICKINSON: I told Pablo Fenjves the entire story. I wrote my notes and I was explaining to this brilliant writer and director, Pablo, what happened. And Pablo came back at me and said, well, I took poetic license to wrote what I could get away with.

LEMON: Janice said that she's hoping -- Lisa that you will get to depose Bill Cosby face to face...


LEMON: ... or to see him testify in court.


LEMON: And so, this do you think this time will be different because if that happens, then he's on the record.

BLOOM: Bill Cosby has never had to sit down and answer tough questions from a lawyer about what happened. He's been given some softball questions by some journalists, like last week, and when he refuses to answer them, there's no accountability, there's no follow up. It's very different when you're in a deposition, you raise your right hand, under oath, you swear to tell the truth and I, or any other attorney has the right to really bore in and insist on answers to questions. That's how it's going to be in this case both in Mr. Cosby's deposition and at trial.

LEMON: What's next?

BLOOM: What's next is, they will have 30 days to answer the complaint that we filed today, and we will seek Mr. Cosby's deposition as soon as possible, so we can answer questions on the record about why he chose to send his representatives out to call Ms. Dickinson a liar. And as to all of the underlying allegations about whether he drugged and raped her, where he was in 1982. And about the 46 other women, 46 other women who have come forward with their names publicly and accused him of strikingly similar allegations of sexual assault.

LEMON: Lisa, Janice, we'll have you back on then as this continues. Thank you so much.

DICKINSON: Thank you, Don. I'm not finished, Don.

[22:35:00] LEMON: And coming up, 170 bikers behind bars, after their deadly melee in Waco, Texas. The identity of one of them may surprise you.


WILLIS: Three days after biker gangs turned a Texas parking lot into a battle field, 170 bikers are behind bars tonight. CNN's Kyung Lah, live for us tonight, again in Waco, Texas. Kyung, you have been looking into the backgrounds of the various people arrested and it turns out one of them is actually an ex-cop. what do we know about that?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very surprising. When you look at all the different backgrounds of all these people you learn things like there's a pharmacist, there is a married couple, a number of women.

This is the one that really caught us off guard. A San Antonio police detective. He has been on the force; he was on the force 32 years. The police department said that he didn't go undercover with any of the biking gangs, but he did work in vice for a good number of years.

So, his name is Martin Lewis, he is currently a grandfather, he writes on Facebook that he takes care of his mom. He also identifies himself as a Bandido bike club member. So, a wide variety of people. This is a one, Don, that really surprised us.

[22:40:10] LEMON: And I understand that you have some new information about the one person, the first person to make that million dollar bond?

LAH: This person, according to a law enforcement source who is familiar with the investigation, we did confirm that a man named Jeff Battey, he is one of the 170. He is the very first to be able to come up with the assets to meet the $1 million bond. Now, it is not that he paid $1 million, but he was able to come up with the 10 to 15 percent in cash in order to walk out. He is the very first of the 170 or so.

LEMON: OK. So, police say they have recovered more than a thousand weapons, Kyung. I mean, that's just -- it's unbelievable.

LAH: Very surprising. Because initially we heard that it was 100 guns or so. When they say more than 1,000 weapons, you're talking about knives, they're talking about hand guns, rifles, chains with padlocks attached.

And the most astonishing thing about this is where they found them. According to the police department, they found some of these weapons stated in the restaurant in between bags of flour, they were stuffed in bags of tortilla chips. They also found them in the toilet. So, what the police department said that this suggests that what was happening here is that people were trying to ditch the evidence.

LEMON: What the hell. All right, Kyung. Thank you very much. I appreciate your reporting. Let's talk now to Steve Cook who worked undercover in a biker gang. And he's the executive director of the Midwest Outlaw Motorcycle Gang Investigators Association.

First of all, respond to what she just -- of what Kyung just reported. Over a thousand weapons stored in bags of flower, in the toilet, I mean, what is going on here?

STEVE COOK, WORKED UNDERCOVER IN A MOTORCYCLE GANG: Well, I think very accurate to her statement about people ditching things. You know, it's common, especially in these types of scenarios. I know when they had the Laughlin and river running Sedan between the Hells Angels and the Mongols.

You actually had members of the Mongols that were stripping their colors and throwing them in trash cans just trying to escape to casino property without being apprehended. So, yes, when the heat is on like that, you know, these guys are going to try to dispose of whatever they have.

LEMON: But as to say, why so many weapons? Why the heck do they need so many weapons? COOK: I think that just goes even further to prove the fact that there

was a little premeditation involved with this incident. People showed up heavily armed and they were obviously expecting something.

LEMON: What do you know about this? Are you surprised that a former vice cop was involved in this?

COOK: you know, sadly enough, I'm not. You know, with the Hells Angels, they won't accept anybody that's prior law enforcement. Some of these other organizations don't have that hard and fast of a rule. You know, we do know of police officers that have been involved with the Bandidos, with their support clubs, with the pagans, with the outlaws, you know, even -- with some of the bogus support clubs like the Green Machine.

So, you know, we've known a former police officers, you know, engaging in this activity. A lot of the times it's officers who have been, you knnow, fired from their agencies. But in some circumstances people who have retired and then, you know, carried on with this new life, so to speak, after their law enforcement.

LEMON: Let's talk a little bit about this. Do you think that it is more likely -- the more likely scenario that he was an undercover agent or role that you had performed or do you think he was just a good cop gone bad?

COOK: You know, I hate to speculate where that's involved. But, you know, as far as, you know, my knowledge, I know who the person is. I've seen the individual before. He was in the -- one of the Bandidos support clubs. I can't recall the exact, you know, branch. But, you know, it was news to me that he was former law enforcement. I didn't know that about his background.

LEMON: What are law enforcement agents like you, who are involved with biker gangs saying about this situation?

COOK: Well, you know, I think everybody, you know, things are starting to get a little bit back to normal, but I think everybody is just kind of -- still waiting for the next shoe to drop. You know, the red river run is over Memorial Day weekend.

That's kind of a mandatory Bandido function. I know pretty much all the New Mexico Bandidos are expected to be there. The Colorado Bandidos will be heading down and I wouldn't be surprised if you see some of the, you know, Gulf Coast Bandidos had that way, which would, you know, bring some of them right through Texas, you know, right back into those areas where some of these conflicts have already occurred.

[22:45:04] LEMON: Steve Cook, thank you very much. I appreciate you joining us here this evening.

COOK: Thank you.

LEMON: We've got to -- when we're going to talk a lot about race whether it was a factor in Waco. We've been speaking a lot about that. When we come right back, I'm going to ask pastor, the Bishop T.D. Jakes if he thinks it is fair to compare Waco to Baltimore. Coming up.


LEMON: Some breaking news to report on a story we've been following on CNN. A suspect has been identified in a brutal quadruple homicide in Washington, D.C. Police are asking for help or from the public in locating this man.

The suspect, 34-year-old Daron Dylon Wint, Daron Dylon Wint. There he is on your screen. An arrest warrant charges him in the murders of a couple and their 10-year-old son, and also a housekeeper. If you have information, make sure you call authorities.

Meantime (ph), the arrest in death of Freddie Gray launch protest and riots in Baltimore and led to six police officers being charged in grace death. The video reveals a key part of his arrest.

There's new video shot by a bystander. It shows officer's placing Gray in handcuffs and leg shackles before putting him into police van, head first and on his stomach. There's a video.

[22:50:05] I want to bring in now T.D. Jakes. He is a senior pastor of The Potter's House. He's got a message for the faithful about justice and peace. I'm going to talk to him about all of that. So, you see that, on top of that, the original video that we have seen, this new video is out. What is your reaction to that, Bishop?

T.D. JAKES, THE POTTER'S HOUSE BISHOP: It's very disturbing. The whole story is very disturbing. First of all, my heart really bleeds for Freddie Gray's family and what it must be like to go losing your child and then having to look at these images over and over again. It's very, very disturbing for the public at large.

And from all that I could tell from those people around in the criminal justice system, it's highly unusual to trust somebody that you are arresting in on their stomach facedown who said they can't breathe. So, I don't know what the answers are but there surely are a lot of questions.

LEMON: And that's what this is really about the -- what appears to a blatant disregard for human life. That's what this is really -- that's what the bottom of this.

JAKES: You know, to be honest with you, Don, I think it goes even deeper than that. I think that what is happening on the sidewalks is a lightning rod to draw attention to a much larger problem in our criminal justice system. There are so many area of our criminal justice system that like so far behind the times of the way we've got the high level of incarcerations of African-American, and Latinos, even when they commit the same crime as their white counter parts, seven times more likely to be incarcerated.


JAKES: We've known these stats for a long time, but we've not done anything about it. And I think we really need to not just look at the sidewalk, though that's reprehensible, but we also need to look at the entire criminal justice system and challenge to them in so many ways.

LEMON: And what people call the prison industrial complex. Right. That lacking -- lacking of people. Is that -- because you have mega fest every summer?


LEMON: And you're going to be talking to families about -- and your followers about this particular situation. What do you say to them? What are you telling them?

JAKES: Well, you know, it is not so much about talking to the followers as it is talking to the leadership and challenging the leadership to hold our elected officials accountable that our needs and our concerns can be met and dealt with.

I don't think this is about preaching sermons. So, we certainly do those kinds of conversations. We'll continue to do them. But we have governors of some of the pastors and leaders both right wing to left wing conservatives, liberals and whites and blacks and browns. And so, this is a moment that the church needs to stand together.

As long as these assailants they are black issue or a brown issue and not seeing as an American issue we have to save ourselves. We need everybody, black, white and brown to take a real good look at this system and when we do need police officers, how is that, Don, and recognized that there are majority of police officers that are doing an amazing job.

But just, you know, the human -- the area where people are human and subject to fallibility, we need to have a system in place that is prepared to confront these questions and resolve the conflicts that are permeating through our society.

LEMON: You and I talked a little bit before you came on and it's palpable, I feel it out there, more than ever, that there's this anger that's out there. And online and, you know, where people just say and do -- what's going on?

JAKES: It's amazing. I mean, no matter what you say or what you do, there's somebody coming on your feed line just attacking and you can tell that anger is not really leveraged at you, you might become brutalized by it, but the reality is, I think people are angry because, in fact, they're disappointed.

Some people are angry because their ideas are being challenged. They see this America as a very place and for the most part it is, but they cannot conceive the idea that the police officers would be unjust. Others are saying, it's really the people and the families that there not raising their children to respect the law. Some hybrid of the two ideas needs to be confronted.

On one hand, we certainly don't want our children to be exempt from the law. We want them to be subject to the law just like anyone else. But the bigger problem is, we just don't want them tried on the sidewalk when they do break the law. LEMON: Let's talk about Waco. So, you saw, when we talk about in the

segment before then we had a very heated segment last night about whether it involves race or not. And certainly, in most areas in America, you know, race is involved. It's the third rail of the American politics or probably even American culture. But do you think it's fair to compare Waco to Baltimore to the situations there?

JAKES: I think they're very different. The outcome is very tragic and certainly that the way it's covered is often challenging depending on whose covering it and we did the language over to whether we want to call people thugs or gang leaders and how we portray those people is some that suspect.

But, again, I think we miss a larger issue if we draw all over the semantics of the issue rather than getting down to the real issue of what is really just and right for all Americans.

LEMON: Right, right, right. It's really -- it's really unfortunate that we get bogged down in that language when we could really be doing something that really makes a difference.

JAKES: The reason it's unfortunate is because sometimes we're so busy being politically correct.

LEMON: Correct.

JAKES: That we can get in here. Come on.

LEMON: Oh, thank you. That is so nice telling for...


JAKES: It's absolutely right. Everybody is afraid to say anything, but I've been telling black, and white, and brown English.

[22:55:00] Our silence is being judged in the smoke this coming up in Baltimore, this coming up in St. Louis and coming up in other places around our country. The reason the people need to find the language to be able to have an open frank conversation about this or unreasonable people will take it to the streets.

LEMON: And so, what is your message as you said, -- and I always saw you this and I don't believe me, that you have had a profound influence on my life and especially on my career because I'm the target here, right.


LEMON: Because I'm the guy giving the information.

JAKES: Right.

LEMON: And so, one of your sermons that says, you know, you ask everybody to turn to their neighbor and say three times, hey, neighbor, you don't have to believe in my dreams.


LEMON: And that has really propelled me to this, to where I am now.


LEMON: And I wish that everyone could live by that.

JAKES: I think that we have to -- have boldness to live today because we live in an area where everybody has access to you. Everybody gets to critique you and being hide who they really are and you have to have the courage to live your life in the beat who you are to go forward to your life, to have your faith or whatever it is that seems to cause angst on these people and to move forward with who you are.

LEMON: Thank you. I love you.

JAKES: I love you, my brother.

LEMON: You're amazing. Thank you very much. Make sure Mega Fest, Mega Fest in August, August 23rd, 19th through 23rd, Dallas, Texas. Make sure you go. For more information, go to

T.D. Jakes, thank you very much. We'll be right back.


LEMON: Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow.

"AC360" right now.