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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Fighter Jets Scrambled; War with ISIS; Cleveland Cop Acquitted. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 25, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: LEGAL VIEW today with special guest star Kate Bolduan begins right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Ashleigh Banfield today. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW on this Memorial Day. Thank you so much for joining us.

We do start with breaking news, though. The Air Force says it has scrambled two F-15 fighter jets as a precaution this morning after word of a threat on an airliner from France headed to New York. They say it was an Air France flight that was headed to JFK. NORAD says law enforcement received the threat. Jean Casarez is following all of this.

Jean, this is all coming in in just the last few minutes. What are you think about it (ph)?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, it's happening right now. Well, that plane had not been given an all clear, but as you said, it did land safely at JFK about 10:17 this morning. Law enforcement has been searching that plane and, according to the North American Aerospace Defense Command, they tell CNN that a threat came in on Air France Flight 22 and because of that, as a precautionary measure, that is why those two F-15 fighter jets came in and were launched as a precautionary measure.

Now, as we say, the flight has not been cleared yet. It did land safely. So, Kate, at this point, there are more questions than answers, but law enforcement has been searching that flight to see if there is any credible information that comes from this threat that was launched directly at law enforcement on this flight.

We do want to tell everybody that this flight did leave Paris, France, this morning, Charles de Gaulle Airport, at 8:32, landing at JFK safely at 10:17.

BOLDUAN: And it goes without saying, obviously, early on in this, they haven't cleared the flight. They're in the middle of looking into exactly what the nature of the threat was. Do they - do they have any idea who the threat came from? No?

CASAREZ: It was, at this point, an anonymous threat -

BOLDUAN: Still an anonymous threat.

CASAREZ: But taken seriously enough to launch those fighter jets to help bring it in.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Jean, thank you so much for bringing us up to date. Those are the latest developments.

So let's discuss what this all means as this develops as we speak. Let's bring in former FBI assistant director, as well as CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, he's joining us from Washington, and former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation, and CNN aviation analyst, Mary Schiavo, she's joining us from South Carolina.

So, Tom, first off, obviously as Jean rightly points out, more questions than answers at this point, but they scrambled two F-15 fighter jets, so they're clearly taking this seriously. What does this mean for how they're going to investigate this threat?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Kate, they've had this happen so often with getting a bomb threat or some unspecified anonymous threat to aircraft, they have to take it seriously. They scramble the jets so that they have an eye on the plane as it's in the air. And I think that the question there is, if they thought it had been hijacked or if they thought that they had a pilot go rogue, like the Germanwings plane, you know, would the F-16s have shot it down if it started heading for, you know, the tall buildings of Manhattan, like we experienced in 9/11.

Now at this point, it's landed safely. They'll do, as they've done in so many of these, do a search of the plane to determine if an explosive device has been planted. And if they find no evidence of that, that will be the end of it and they'll go forward, other than trying to identify who made the threat, who made the call.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And that's a whole - a whole other, different - different kind of leg of the investigation.

FUENTES: Right.

BOLDUAN: But let's get to that in a second. But, Mary, to you, what is happening with the plane right now? Does it - does it - as Tom kind of points out, does it depend on what the real nature of this threat was to this plane? What scenario are they going through right now?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I happened to be at Detroit the day of the - of the underwear bomber on Christmas Day a number of years ago and what they do is they take it to a remote part of the airport, and because it's a chemical threat, they will also have to very carefully search through luggage, because Tom probably remembers, he was at the FBI at the time, when they had the subway gassings in Tokyo, they used a particular kind of weapon that had two plastic bags full of chemicals and those together mixed to create a concoction. So they will really have to do a very careful search through all the bags, all the plane. Because it's a chemical threat and not a bomb, the explosive threat - the explosive dogs, the bomb dogs, may not be as much help as they ordinary would. So the passengers on those planes are in for a rather long day as they will have to search literally everything on the plane.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And those are reports that it is a chemical weapons threat, not necessarily confirmed yet by our sources. Everyone is clearly looking into it at this point.

If it would be, if that would be the nature of the threat, though, Tom, a chemical weapons threat, that seems more unusual than what you normally hear, if you will, on these bomb - in terms of a threat to planes. And as you point out, these threats come in so often. What does this then mean for the other part of this investigation, trying to track down who tipped off law enforcement to this?

FUENTES: Well, they'll be going back, Kate, to the call that came in and try to identify where that might have come in. You know, is there some reason that somebody that was a passenger on that plane might be in the middle of a - of a business dispute or marital dispute or something of that nature where someone might want to inconvenience them or hassle them in some way.

[12:05:12] But, you know, when you have an anonymous phone threat, people could say anything. They could say that plane's got a nuclear device on it and there's no way, until you search it, to know whether it does or not. And as Mary correctly pointed out, every airport, particularly in the U.S., has a specific designated spot where a plane in trouble, whether it's hijacked or whatever the situation is, is supposed to go, which takes them away from the terminal, takes them off the main runway area, puts them in a secure area where the FBI and the other authorities can control the situation, bring in communications, establish a perimeter around the plane and go to work essentially because, as Mary said, it's going to be a long day for everybody involved in this.

BOLDUAN: That's absolutely right. We - and that long day is already underway, as we know. And just to remind all of our viewers, that flight landed safely at JFK Airport around 10:16, as Jean Casarez was reporting. The nature of the threat, they're still looking into it. That flight was coming from France and it was - and landed in JFK, but they scrambled two F-15 fighter jets to - as a precautionary member - as a precautionary measure to bring that plane in to JFK. That threat and the nature of it being investigated as we speak.

Tom, Mary, thank you so much.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

Coming up for us, who to blame? Who is to blame for the rapid rise of ISIS? Iran pointing fingers right now at President Obama. His defense secretary, though, saying just over the weekend that Iraqi troops have shown no will to fight. What does this all mean? Most importantly, what does this mean for U.S. strategy there?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:10:10] BOLDUAN: You're looking at live pictures right now from Arlington National Cemetery. Today, Americans paying tribute to America's fallen heroes, our military men and women who have paid the ultimate sacrifice. It's a beautiful day especially in that most harrowing, solemn of places in Arlington National Cemetery.

Just last hour you saw President Obama lead America's solemn observance of Memorial Day. Like so many commanders in chief before him, President Obama placed a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns, as well as made remarks at Arlington National Cemetery honoring the sacrifices of military men and women and their families. We'll be looking at those images throughout the day and taking a moment to remember.

But this is also coming just a day after the U.S. defense secretary, Ashton Carter, he publicly accused the Iraqi army of abandoning the city of Ramadi. Iraqi troops and police had allied - and allied militias are said to be massing on the outskirts there, but local officials tell CNN the forces are waiting for the order from Baghdad to push back into Ramadi to try to drive ISIS out once again.

The U.N. estimates that more than 50,000 Iraqi civilians have fled Ramadi since ISIS militants took control there eight days ago. CNN's Arwa Damon is joining me now from the Iraqi capital of Baghdad.

So, Arwa, what is the very latest other than the back and forth of war of words that it seems we're hearing right now?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that troop level that the Iraqi government have massed on the outskirts of Ramadi are quite a patchwork combination of army, police, as well as these Iranian-backed Shia paramilitary units. The Sunni tribes involved in this as well, but they are more in a defensive position.

It does seem at this stage, since the Iraqi government clearly does not have competent and capable forces at its disposal, its having to rely on this unconventional fighting force to begin retaking the city of Ramadi. It most certainly is not an ideal situation, but the country does not have much else to fall back on.

Now, those comments by the U.S. defense secretary are causing quite a few people to bristle here. They believe that his statements are misplaced. The prime minister saying that much to the BBC. And they feel as if this is the U.S.'s attempt to perhaps try to distance itself from any sort of responsibility it may have when it comes to its own restructuring and when it was trainings the Iraqi army itself, as well as the, perhaps, current failures of America's strategy when it comes to trying to defeat ISIS.

We did speak to an Iraqi soldier whose unit was on the front lines and among the last to withdraw when the order was given to retreat from Ramadi. He says that the key problem that they were facing was a lack of ammunition, a logistical failure, he was saying, as well as a failure in command structure, not necessarily a failure in a will to fight. The situation on the ground is very complicated. Many viewing Carter's comments as being a very simplistic view to what is a very intricate situation.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Arwa Damon in Baghdad for us. Arwa, thank you very much for bringing us the very latest.

But let's get some additional insights now from Mark Hertling. He's a retired U.S. Army lieutenant general, the former commanding general of the U.S. forces to Europe, as well as CNN military analyst.

General, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for coming in.

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to see you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

So you hear - you've heard and you've discussed it, Ashton Carter, the defense secretary's, remarks that the Iraqi forces showed no will to fight. What do you make of his comments?

HERTLING: Well, I believe Mr. Carter was talking specifically about the leadership aspect and Arwa brought up some key issues. It's a lack of ability to communicate between forces, coordinate those same forces and there certainly are a variety out there, conduct good intelligence operations, resupply through logistics, coordinate air and close air support fires. So all of those things are problematic in the Iraqi military right now.

I don't think Mr. Carter was bashing the Iraqi soldiers. And if he was, I don't - I'd - I would - I would counter those remarking because I believe the Iraqi soldiers certainly have the will to fight if led correctly. Unfortunately, they are not being led very well right now. And you can see that based on the discord that's occurring throughout the force. They also have the challenges of fighting all over the country. I mean, as Americans, we're almost exclusively focused on Tikrit and Ramadi, but there are battles going on throughout the width and depth of Iraq right now and most of the Iraqi forces are doing quite well holding back ISIS, their gains in some of those areas.

[12:15:02] BOLDUAN: Well, take that, but then also the response, if you will, that came from the Iraqi prime minister, speaking to the BBC. I mean it seems pretty startling. He said that he believes - he said he was surprised and that he believes that the defense secretary was fed wrong information. This does not sound like two top government officials that are on the same page in a fight together.

HERTLING: No, it certainly doesn't. And you add to that, I think, General Dempsey's remarks earlier in the week where he said the Iraqis were not driven out of Ramadi, they drove out of Ramadi.

But I - but I think what Mr. Carter and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs are attempting to do is hold up a mirror. Part of the president's strategy is based on Iraq taking the fight to the enemy on the ground. We will support that. And, in fact, the president has also said he will consider additional options if he sees the Iraqi government consolidating and getting rid of the sectarian divide and putting together a concerted effort against ISIS. We have not seen that yet. It's still an issue of ISIS - or, I'm sorry, Shia militias, national guards, Sunnis not being armed, Kurds not being armed, the Iraqi security forces being moved all over the country. So I think what Mr. Carter was doing is hey - saying basically, hey, you guys need to get your act together before you expect more effort by the United States.

BOLDUAN: General Hertling, we're talking about Iraq, but we're also talking about Iraq on a very important day, on Memorial Day, a day to honor those who have fallen, our military men and women. And I just wanted to get your take, just a final thought on what this day means to you? What do you remember on this day?

HERTLING: Well, I was on "New Day" earlier this morning, Kate, and gave a tribute to all those who I served with, who gave the last full measure of devotion. It is - for those of us who have served with others who have given their lives, who have sacrificed for our country, this is a day that's not so much about car sales and picnic beaches and picnics on the beach and the end of school, it's really about those who gave the last full measure.

Now, we're going to enjoy those other things in tribute to those who gave their measures so we can live the way we do, but we will all take a little bit of time and think about those. And, in fact, later on today, I'm going to do a shot of bourbon for one individual soldier who was a huge bourbon lover and we used to have discussions about which one was the best and he gave his last full measure, so I'm going to present a toast to him later on today.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. General, thank you so much. It's always great to have you, especially on this day.

HERTLING: Thank you, Kate. Thank you very much.

BOLDUAN: Of course. Of course.

Now, before we move on, I do want to take you to Memorial Day ceremonies in Afghanistan. Troops gathered at NATO headquarters in Kabul to honor more than 2,200 U.S. soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines killed in action in America's longest war.

And President Obama even pointed out this is the first Memorial Day with the - since the war in Afghanistan has wrapped up.

Up next for us, acquittal in Cleveland for a police officer who fired multiple shots at a car with two unarmed people inside. More than 70 arrests after protesters filled the streets in response.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:21:44] BOLDUAN: In Cleveland, it's calm after a weekend of mostly peaceful protests over the acquittal of Officer Michael Brelo in the shooting death of two unarmed citizens. This morning, the court began arraigning 71 people that were arrested during those demonstrations over the weekend. Most pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor failing to disperse charge and were released on $150 fine. Saturday night, things were tense for a bit when police in riot gear took to the streets asking people to leave the area.

The verdict, though, ends a case that began in 2012 with police pursuing these two people, Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams in a high-speed chase. Police were trying to stop them for failing to use a turn signal. Well, that went completely wrong. The car backfired. And the car backfired is actually key here because police thought that was a gunshot. We'll discuss that in a second.

Officers fired 137 shots, including Officer Brelo, who eventually stood on the hood of the car shooting several rounds through the windshield. The judge, in reading the verdict, used mannequins to explain his verdict. Said Brelo's actions were reasonable because he felt the officers' lives were still in danger. Brelo's attorney told CNN earlier that it is not about the number of shots fired. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK A. D'ANGELO, OFFICER MICHAEL BRELO'S ATTORNEY: There are many United States Supreme Court decisions throughout our land that talk about the number of shots not being relevant. So you get into these emotional issues, but, again, at the end of the day, the issue is, what are the facts and what is the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's discuss that. HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson, he is here, as well as CNN law enforcement analyst and president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, Cedric Alexander. He's joining us from Atlanta.

Thank you, both of you.

Joey, first to you. I know that his attorney says that it's not about the number of shots fired -

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

BOLDUAN: But when you take these facts into account, 137 shots, 49 shots total coming from Officer Brelo.

JACKSON: That's right.

BOLDUAN: Fifteen - at least 15 of those shots coming from him standing on the hood of the car shooting directly into the windshield.

JACKSON: That's right.

BOLDUAN: How is this not manslaughter?

JACKSON: Here's what the judge did. And understand this, which is very important, the judge was the trier of fact here, Kate. And what that means is that the defendant waived a jury trial, which is his right, to have the case heard in front of a judge. And what that means logically is that a jury could have concluded differently and another judge could have concluded differently on the issue of manslaughter. Clearly someone died here. Of course, two people died here, and the bullet count -

BOLDUAN: And they were unarmed.

JACKSON: Absolutely. And some would argue that car served as a weapon. Just to be clear, the judge based it upon causation, saying that it could not be definitively determined that the fatal blow came from Brelo's weapon. And as a result of that, the judge said that it was a fatal shot, but did not conclude that it was the fatal shot beyond a reasonable doubt.

And in getting to that conclusion, Kate, the judge opted to reject medical testimony that the prosecution proffered that said just the opposite. And that's why the judge concluded there was no manslaughter here and many were left to wonder, listen, just because you can't determine that one fatal shot hit him, does that mean that you absolve him and do you absolve everyone else? And so that was a critical issue here.

[12:25:04] BOLDUAN: Another thing that I wanted to bring up, and, Cedric, come in on this, he is one of 13 officers that fired shots. There were more than 100 officers that pursued them in his high-speed chase over 100 miles an hour in some places. Again, there is an investigation into a lot of their actions from the police perspective, but there's no criminal wrongdoing here on the part of Officer Brelo, but is the response that you saw and what led to this event, is this good police protocol?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think what you're going to see going forward is going to be an administrative investigation that I'm quite sure is underway by the police department, Chief Williams there and his staff, to look at maybe some policy violations that may have occurred. Sixty some cars in the chase in an urban environment certainly creates a great lot of - a great deal of risks for those officers and for our citizens. And, of course, when you begin to think about how this whole case unfold, I think it's through their administrative investigation they may find some reasons to hold some officers accountable.

But, look, at this, at the end of the day, is that these are very complicated cases. And even though the perception of the public, particularly today across this country, is that police could and should be doing better. But we also have to look at each one of these cases, Kate, very individually. And I would also say as well, too, that going forward, particularly for Cleveland and other cities across this country, even here in my own community, we really have to make ourselves much more available, much more open to our citizens that we serve in terms of what our policies are and how things can sometimes be perceived one way and sometimes be another way. We want to be fair to the citizens, but at the same time, too, we want to make sure there's an environment of fairness of officers that has to do a very, very difficult job as well too.

JACKSON: That's true (ph).

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And final thoughts.

JACKSON: Sure, Kate. It should also be noted that the prosecutor in this case has said that there were five other officers indicted. Now, they were supervisors -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

JACKSON: And they were indicted for dereliction of duty, which is a substantially minor charge than what Brelo was going after. And then, of course, based upon the chase ensuing to begin with, because was it proper protocol, of course the prosecution says no and as a result of that chase many things happened that didn't need to happen. Of course the end result, two people died.

BOLDUAN: Well, and this isn't the only very sensitive, highly publicized case that this city is even dealing with. That's going to be - they're dealing with another case involving Tamir Rice -

JACKSON: Tamir Rice, 12-years-old.

BOLDUAN: The 12-year-old black boy who had a toy gun, he was shot and killed by white police officers. We've - there's video of that - surveillance video of that. That's another case that this city is dealing with. And so that is - speaks - when you talk about the supervisors that are charged, you've got this. A big questions for how that city handles that, the police officer - the police department handles that going forward and what that means for the confidence of that community.

Cedric, it's great to see you. Thank you so much.

ALEXANDER: Yes, thank you for having me.

BOLDUAN: Joey, thank you, as always.

JACKSON: A pleasure (ph), Kate.

BOLDUAN: A lot of eyes on Cleveland and a lot of work there to be done.

All right, coming up for us, a dozen people missing in the Texas - in one Texas county. Homes, cars, swept away in deadly flash floods and more dangerous weather is unfortunately on the way. Just look at that. We're going to have a live report, next.

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