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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

TSA Fails 95 Percent of Undercover Security Tests; Republicans Slam Rand Paul Over NSA Debate; Murders Spike in Some of America's Biggest Cities; No More Bruce Jenner: Reality Star Reveals Female Identity; Woman Trashes Rare Apple 1 Computer. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired June 1, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[19:00:09] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next. Bombs and guns making their way to TSA checkpoints. We have the details of a new investigation that will shock you. And according to my guests, the problem is much worse than what we're even being told.

Plus, a pastor shot to death by police. The dash cam video breaking tonight OUTFRONT was the use of force justified?

And goodbye Bruce Jenner. Call her Caitlin. The former Olympic star athlete new look on the cover of "Vanity Fair," a new details tonight on her transition from man to woman, let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. And OUTFRONT tonight, bombs on planes. A massive failure. We are learning new details tonight about just how often TSA screeners allowed guns and explosives through security checkpoints, the last line of defense before those weapons could be on a plane. CNN has learned the Department of Homeland Security undercover investigators posed as passengers. In 67 of 70 tries, 67 of 70 tries, yes, you can do the math. That's nearly 100 percent of the time. TSA screeners didn't detect the fake weapons. And maybe the most incredible part of the report is this. In one test, an undercover investigator reportedly was stopped after setting off an alarm. You would think good news, right?

Well, okay, then they gave this person a pat-down. And they failed to detect a fake bomb that was taped to the investigator's back. You can't make this up. But in a statement, the Department of Homeland Security is defending the TSA tonight. Saying, quote, "the number on these reports never look good out of context, but they're a critical element in the continual evolution of our aviation security." This is unclear how numbers like this would look good in context. But the bottom-line is this. After years of getting liquids confiscated, taking off your shoes, pulling out your laptop, bombs still got through security no problem. Raising fears of terror attacks in the sky.

Rene Marsh is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): TSA officers failed 95 percent of the time during undercover operations designed to test their ability to detect explosives and weapons at airport security checkpoints.

CHAD WOLF, FORMER TSA OFFICIAL: These are anomalies that TSA screeners and/or their equipment should locate and at least flag for an additional screening.

MARSH: Teams with the Department of Homeland Security inspector general's office posed as passengers and attempted to pass through airport checkpoints with mock explosives and weapons. A government official with knowledge of the results say TSA failed 67 out of 70 tests.

WOLF: To miss 67 out of 70 different instances is extremely alarming. And I would say even dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I am putting a detonator into the plastic explosive.

MARSH: CNN was there in 2008 for a similar covert operation. That time it was TSA testing its own officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Okay, check.

MARSH: at the checkpoint, the tester is wanted and patted down where the fake explosive device was concealed. But the screener missed it. It's not until the tester lifts his shirt up.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Oh, I see it now.

MARSH: The Department of Homeland Security says it, quote, immediately directed TSA to implement a series of actions, several of which are now in place.

WOLF: Is it the technology that's failing or is it the screeners themselves not following proper protocol? If TSA's screening equipment is failing in not doing the job, that's a larger systemic issue that TSA needs to address.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: Well, Erin tonight DHS will not say what actions were taken, only saying that several actions were implement, and many of them are now in place. They also point out that what happens at the security checkpoint is just one part of their layered approach to security. Also, you know, many of these tests are intentionally made difficult so that they can find the vulnerabilities. However, one former TSA official says that a 95 percent failure rate is just way too high. As you know, TSA has received millions and millions of dollars from Congress. And today just a short time ago, Representative Jason Chaffetz, he sent me this statement. He said that he's alarmed after spending, quote, $540 million on baggage screening equipment and millions more on training, the failure rate today is higher than it was in 2007 -- Erin.

BURNETT: That's pretty atrocious no matter how you look at it. Rene, thank you. OUTFRONT tonight, republican Congressman John Mica. He sits on both

the oversight and transportation committees. And he co-authored the 2001 legislation that created the TSA. And Congressman, I really appreciate your time. When you hear that number, bombs and weapons getting through security, 95 percent of the time during this test at American airports, airports in the United States, what concerns you the most?

REP. JOHN MICA (R), TRANSPORTATION AND OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Well, that does concern me. But that's the DHS and TSA testing themselves. Unfortunately, the results when I have independent testing by others who are not part of that, the results are even worse.

[19:05:36] BURNETT: You co-authored the bill that created the TSA back in 2001. You also taught to be fair raised concerns early on. So before the program was even fully implemented the next year, you said, I'll quote you, "the TSA has become a monster" that was 13 years ago.

MICA: Well, it has. It has. It started out with 16,500 screeners. We're now at over 60, 000 employees. We have 15,000 administrators. Just here in Washington we have 4,000 administrative personnel. This has grown completely out of control. It isn't doing the job we need to. What we need to do is be able to connect the dots, get intelligence information, go after people who pose a risk. And they can't do it with the current system. And they're failing to detect even these test incursions that are within their own realm.

BURNETT: And I know that you've been privatizing a lot of the TSA functions. Obviously, that's been an option. A couple dozen airports out of 450 in the country have actually done that. You know, I'm just wondering why you see that as such a solution. The former president of the union -- well, though let me just finish the question quickly. He says look, if you're going to allow private contractors to bid, you're going to go to the lowest bidder. That's one concern. The other of course is, as we have all learned in this country, someone like Edward Snowden, right, worked for a private contractor contracted by the NSA. Private contractors are not a panacea.

MICA: Well, the private contractors are used for actually the screening. And screening is not a law enforcement function. What is a government function is setting the standards but a government function is connecting the dots, finding out who poses a risk, making certain they don't get through the airport security. Almost every program they had, we could take you behavior detection -- I'm sorry, 3,000 employees and we spent a third of a billion dollars a year on that. And they let what is it, 25 terrorists -- 17 terrorists through airport 17 times. That means some terrorists have gone through multiple times. Government's responsibility is the security, the intelligence and not the mundane chore of screening passengers.

BURNETT: All right. Well, Congressman, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much, sir.

MICA: Thank you. BURNETT: And with the shocking TSA failure, tonight's battle in

Congress on the NSA's authority to investigate terrorism is center stage. It's a debate that matters for all Americans and has major implications for the 2016 race for the White House. Dana Bash is live in South Carolina tonight.

And Dana, that debate really heating up today between some of the major presidential candidates.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And right here in South Carolina, you saw Lindsey Graham announcing that he is running for president, primarily because he wants to push back on the kind of foreign policy, kind of National Security that Rand Paul has been talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): Lindsey Graham is quite specific about why he wants to be commander-in-chief.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to be president to defeat the enemies that are trying to kill us. Not just penalize them or criticize them or contain them, but defeat then.

BASH: Barely scratching one percent in most polls, Graham knows he has a steep hill to climb. CNN is told he is running primarily to force a debate within the GOP on foreign policy.

GRAHAM: Those who believe we can disengage from the world at large and be safe by leading from behind, vote for someone else.

BASH: There a not so subtle dig at Rand Paul, a noninterventionist and Graham's chief foil, particularly on national security. For months, the two have exchanged long distanced barbs, and Graham was even caught rolling his eyes last month as Paul talked.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Tonight begins the process of ending bulk collection.

BASH: Paul's headline making filibuster temporarily stopped the NSA's data dragnet program which Graham calls essential. And it was a welcome contrast on his announcement day.

PAUL: So little by little, we have allowed our freedom to slip away. We allowed the Fourth Amendment to be diminished.

BASH: Graham is hardly the only republican candidate who disagrees with Paul. Most do and are eager to say so.

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: The first duty of our national government is to protect the homeland. And this has been an effective tool, along with many others. The Patriot Act ought to be reauthorized as is.

GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's very dangerous. This is probably the most dangerous time for Americans here since September 11th.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I don't think there is anything, anything that we should be doing to lessen our ability to protect the homeland.

[19:10:25] BASH: Yet Paul is pursuing a very different kind of GOP primary voter, libertarians. His stand with Rand social media hash tag is generating buzz online and dollars for his presidential campaign.

PAUL: When fear and complacency allow power to accumulate --

BASH: He even used some of his epic Senate floor speech in this campaign video, which violated Senate rules prohibiting video of Senate proceedings for political purposes. His rhetoric is generating some unwanted headlines like making this accusation against opponents.

PAUL: Some of them I think secretly want there to be an attack on the United States so they can blame it on me.

BASH: This morning, he walked that back.

PAUL: I think sometimes going after people's motives and impugning people's motives is a mistake. And in the heat of battle, I think sometimes hyperbole can get the better of all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now Paul is wearing it as a badge of honor that he stands virtually alone in the republican primary field when it comes to this issue. He claims that the others just don't get it. That in places like Iowa and New Hampshire, there are very specific voters who like the idea of the government staying out. And that being more important than national security, especially in a place like New Hampshire, live free or die, Erin. And in fact, Lindsey Graham is going to go there for his very first official campaign stop tomorrow. So, he'll test whether or not Paul and his advisers are right about that.

BURNETT: Hmm, and as the country waits to see what happens to this Patriot Act. All right, Dana Bash, thank you so much.

And OUTFRONT next, crime surging in major cities across America. Are police backing down out of fear of arrests and being called racists?

Plus, Caitlyn Jenner once known as Bruce making a very public debut today revealing her new body and even more, stunning details about her transition from man to woman.

And a pastor caught in floodwaters. One minute police are trying to rescue him. The next they shoot and kill him. What went wrong? We just got the video tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:40] BURNETT: Tonight a deadly crime wave gripping some of America's biggest cities from New York to St. Louis. Gun violence has been surging. In fact, Baltimore just suffered its worst month for murders in decades. Why? Well, some say police are afraid to do their jobs.

Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protests and rioting in Baltimore and Ferguson. Anti-police demonstrations from New York to California and now worrying indications violent and deadly crime in some places on the rise. In New York, a brazen scene. Police now seeking this man who fired off several rounds in Brooklyn's Bushwick neighborhood. A 50-year-old man shot twice but survived. And one of the nation's latest murders, this weekend a 23-year-old from the Bronx in New York.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I saw the brother on the floor with the big hole where his heart should have been, just pumping blood.

MARQUEZ: Police grappling with increased crime, worse in places like Baltimore that has seen so much protest and violence in recent weeks. The month of May in Baltimore the deadliest in 40 years. In Houston, murders up 45 percent year to year. In Chicago, where total crime is down, murders and shootings up. In New York, where crime overall is also down, murders up. Nearly 20 percent.

In Milwaukee, says "The Wall Street Journal," murders up a staggering 180 percent this year. The paper also says in Los Angeles crime is down, but in the south central precinct, shootings up 100 percent. And in St. Louis, next door to Ferguson, Missouri, the Post Dispatch reports 70 homicides this year. That's up more than 30 percent. Peter Moskos is a former Baltimore cop and current professor of policing.

PETER MOSKOS, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: If there is a national mood that starts to see police as the bad guys, police as the enemy responsible for these problems, it makes it a hell of a lot harder to police. One way that cops deal with that is they just, they stop policing those people.

MARQUEZ: One example, New York City has sharply limited the controversial police tactic of stop and frisk. At its height in 2011, nearly 700,000 mostly black and Latinos stopped and searched. So far this year just 11,000 total. But gun crimes in New York now up. Are increases in gun crimes tied to a sharp decrease in stop and frisk?

MOSKOS: It's entirely possible that stopping hundreds of thousands of people, which has moral and constitutional and legal questions, but it's quite possible that it has a strong deterrent effect on people carrying guns. If we give that up and people start dying again, then we have to come up with a plan B.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: And now it's not clear what that plan B may be. There is a lot of discussion about why this may be happening right now. In Baltimore, which we have looked at so closely over the last several weeks, both the police commissioner there and the Police Union have echoed the same thing. Police officers are concerned that they don't have proper probable cause of making arrests, and that they could now go to jail now that six police officers have been charged there. And the Police Union there is saying basically the criminals have the upper hand -- Erin.

BURNETT: Miguel, thank you very much. It's fascinating when you look at those statistics.

I want to bring in now Bill Stanton, former NYPD officer and Van Jones, our political commentator. Bill, let me start with you. You just heard Miguel go through those statistics in terms of murder rates. Right? So, overall the crime was down in some cities, petty crime et cetera, but murders up Chicago, New York, Baltimore, Milwaukee, St. Louis, in all of those cases. Is this because police are pulling back? They're afraid? They're afraid to do their jobs? They're afraid of going to jail? They're afraid of being called racist or it is that just ridiculous bunk?

BILL STANTON, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: No, it's all of the above, Erin. When you take away police pride and you take away giving them the benefit of the doubt, and they are more afraid they are ready, willing and able to run in the line of fire, to go up against a perpetrator with a knife, to help anyone of any color, when you take the benefit of the doubt away and you're going to call them racist or look to prosecute them for doing nothing wrong, then what happens is, they're going to roll back. They're not going to go that extra mile. They're going to do to the letter of the law. And that is evidence of what is happening with our politicians and far left.

BURNETT: So, Van, I know you disagree. I know you think it's an insult to suggest an officer won't do his or her job for any reason. But then, what do you think is causing this increase in murders?

[19:20:14] VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, let's just say this whole idea, there is now an organized orchestrated campaign on the part of the Police Officers' Union to associate every crime in America now with lawful first amendment protests and concerns about policing. And it's completely ridiculous. They're cherry- picking the data, there are places where crime is falling and where murders are down. They don't point to those cities.

This is all a part of an attempt to tell black people that if we exercise our First Amendment Rights, we are somehow now responsible for people who engage in crime. Why should the black community have to choose between police abuse and police neglect? That's a false choice. I don't know why the murders are going up in some places, and neither does anyone else. What I do know is that these numbers are volatile across the country, and there is an organized campaign now to tell African-Americans basically shut up and take it. And that is wrong. We want better policing, and we deserve better policing. We should not be left to swing between police abuse and police neglect.

BURNETT: All right. So for each of you, though, there are some serious question to your points. So, let me just start with you, Bill. Statistically, it is safer to be an officer now than it has been in the past, right? To Van's point. Right? I mean, you see the increase this year. But 50 police officers on average shot and killed every year over the past decade. That number is half what it was in the 1970s. It is safer to be a police officer today even with this discussion.

STANTON: This past year, my understanding is what you see it in the news, where people just turn around and shoot an officer in the head, where an officer is having his lunch in a patrol car and he is summarily executed. The shooting, the death rate of police officers I disagree has gone up. In my opinion, direct reaction to people screaming cops are evil, cops are bad. You know, where is -- when I was raised, we would always go to a cop. Your parents would say, you're in trouble, go to a cop. That doesn't seem to be the case today. Cops want to help people.

BURNETT: Van?

JONES: I just -- listen, I have so much respect for this officer. But I just have to say.

STANTON: Van, my name is Bill Stanton. You can call me Bill.

JONES: Fine. I was trying to give you your title. But I'll call you whatever you want me to call you. But in this case I'll have to call you wrong. There are communities across the country where people do not have bad relationship with the police and they want that relationship with the police. The reason that we have had these protesters is because people want better policing. Part of the challenge that we have here is this idea that police are so thin- skinned that if someone says a bad thing about them, they're going to stop doing their job. I'm from a law enforcement family. Police are called worse than racist every single day on their job, and they do their job. And so I think it's an insult to law enforcement to sit up here and pretend that our law enforcement does not support the First Amendment, does not support the right to protest, can't be criticized. And if so, they're going let people die in our streets? That is wrong to say about law enforcement, sir, and I'm sorry, I'll be the first to tell you that.

STANTON: I'm happy to have that conversation with you. You know, you're a smart, articulate man who is passionate about his opinions, but on this, you're wrong. When you take police officers doing their job, what I don't hear being addressed is the abundance of crime in the inner cities and who is committing those crimes. So we're identifying the spilled milk, but we're not talking about how to clean it up. And to hear you and others like your opinion constantly saying cops are racist or bad, let's talk about how we stop that crime in the city education and jobs. But you don't ever bring that up.

BURNETT: Van, what about some of the times that the -- Van, what about though, just let us play a little bit of video here. You know, we've heard people saying f-the police, calling them terrorists. We have it on video. It happens at some of these protests.

JONES: Sure. BURNETT: I mean, this is our Miguel Marquez on the streets of

Baltimore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Bleep) (Bleep).

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Straight up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: And then you get this national coverage of these stories which you should. And it's important because we need to address the issue. But do you think it's fair, Van, that some police might say look, I don't want to be the guy who becomes, you know, the next Darren Wilson, the guy who is called a racist?

JONES: Well, hold on a second. What the alternative would be that you have cases where for instance a police officer shot a man running away from him on video. The alternative is we're not supposed to protest because somebody might have their feelings hurt. At a certain point, that's not fair either.

BURNETT: Right.

JONES: When you have these situations where law enforcement officers are doing things like this, are you saying the African-American community cannot exercise our First Amendment right to protest injustices like that? That's wrong too.

STANTON: No, protest is fine. Burning down stores, robbing looting and hurting people.

JONES: No, don't start, don't go down that.

(LAUGHTER)

STANTON: That's what is happening all over the country.

JONES: No, no, no. First of all. That's not happening all over the country.

STANTON: No? It didn't happen in Ferguson? It didn't happen in Baltimore?

JONES: In two cities. In two cities. That's not across the country. We have three hundred million people in countries starring in 50 states.

STANTON: Right.

JONES: So no, not across the country. So now, here is what I think we have to be able to come to the table and agree on. We don't want street violence, unlawful street violence. We don't want unlawful police violence. And the only way to will get there is to recognize there are some parts of law enforcement that seem to be have been going too far. They've got to be corrected. There are folks in our communities who are doing the wrong thing. They've got to be corrected. But to say that if you say that you don't want --

STANTON: Well, Van -- you should stop right there.

JONES: That's wrong.

STANTON: You know what? You had me right there. We're both in agreement, for once.

[19:25:30] BURNETT: Well, we'll leave it there. In a rare moment of peace, amicability of between the two of you. Thank you very much. Great discussion as always.

And next, this is Caitlyn Jenner today on the cover of "Vanity Fair" that is the former Bruce Jenner. And you'll hear why she says she is finally free.

And we also have tonight OUTFRONT for the first time, dash cam video of a young pastor shot and killed by police. Now, this started with police actually attempting to rescue him from floodwaters in the Midwest. What happened?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:27:57] BURNETT: Tonight, meet Caitlyn Jenner. You probably know her as Bruce Jenner, the Olympian and reality TV star.

But tonight, Jenner is gracing the cover of "Vanity Fair," debuting a very new identity in a very revealing and feminine photo. Today, she tweeted, quote, "I'm so happy after such a long struggle to be living my true self. Welcome to the world, Caitlyn. Can't wait for you to get to know her/me."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE JENNER, REALITY STAR: As soon as the "Vanity Fair" cover comes out, I'm free.

BURNETT: This is Caitlyn Jenner, 65 years in the making. In 1976, Bruce Jenner was an American hero, winning gold in the decathlon, which is possibly the most demanding of Olympic sports.

JENNER: I was probably at the games because I was running away from a lot of things.

BURNETT: Jenner quickly became a household name, rising from Wheaties box stardom.

JENNER: I worked out a lot, ate a lot of Wheaties.

BURNETT: To TV and movie roles.

JENNER: I told you I had a surprise for you.

BURNETT: Married three times, his marriage to Kris Jenner lasted 24 years. They had two daughters together and Jenner is a stepfather to Kris' other four children.

The blended family, of course, most famous perhaps for starring in the reality show "Keeping Up with the Kardashians."

JENNER: Whatever happens, I always want you to know that daddy loves you.

BURNETT: Jenner now admits he began taking hormones to begin transitioning to a woman all the way back in the 1980s. But years of rumor and speculation didn't end until this April when Jenner broke his silence, telling ABC's Diane Sawyer he was done lying.

JENNER: I can't do that any longer. So I'm going to take my ponytail out. Yes, why not. We're talking about all this stuff. Yes, let's take the damn ponytail out.

BURNETT: His family has been supportive so far. But some have said they'll miss their dad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like when people say Bruce is going to be gone.

JENNER: I'm not going anywhere.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT tonight, Dr. Norman Spack. He is an endocrinologist who is featured in the Diane Sawyer special on Jenner. And Zoey Tur, she's a transgender and special correspondent for "Inside Edition".

So, Zoe, let me start with you. This is obviously incredible today, this cover. And you see Caitlyn Jenner, and she is beautiful, and she is in this corset, so feminine.

Just over a month ago on CNN, you know, you were talking about gender. You were concerned at the time he was trying to cling on to that, quote-unquote, "maleness". That was the word that you used.

What do you make of today's cover?

ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER TV NEWS REPORTER: It's very feminine. It's very sexy, and it's a statement. And the statement is: I'm female.

And -- I mean, there is clearly no doubt. So, Jenner is selling a product. Jenner is selling sex. Jenner is part of the Kardashian cast. And in keeping with that tradition, Jenner has come off as looking as very, very attractive and sexy.

BURNETT: So, Dr. Spack, it's interesting when you hear Zoe's reaction to this. You know, you saw the moment in the ABC special when Jenner was at first hesitant to take out his ponytail that we just played, right? At the time, it was Bruce. And he said I want to be called Bruce. I want to be referred to by male pronouns. He was very adamant about it.

Here we are a few months later. Now, it's Caitlyn. It's a corset. Its cover of "Vanity Fair." It's a she.

What do you make of this change and the speed with which it has happened?

DR. NORMAN SPACK, FEATURED IN JENNER SPECIAL ON ABC: Well, I don't think I'm really in a position to judge why the speed. But there is a voice that has never been heard in all of this. And that is one of the most important voices for both Caitlyn and for the family, and that is the therapist.

I mean, clearly, one does not just go at whatever pace you wish. These things are worked out. I have every reason to believe that Bruce as he wanted to be known at the time during the Sawyer interview was not yet ready to perhaps for the family or perhaps even for himself to go public and admit that he was as close to being able to reveal his true self as he was.

BURNETT: I mean, Zoey, Caitlyn Jenner has a new twitter handle today. This is stunning. A million followers in four hours that beats out the Guinness World Record of President Obama that is incredible. And when you -- yes, go ahead, Zoey.

TUR: This is a rollout of a product. This is not somebody that is going at their pace. This is a highly professional rollout of a product. And it's all timed.

It was timed -- the ABC interview was timed for sweeps. And now we've got a reality show coming up. And this is to draw viewers in.

[19:35:00] And their Twitter campaign has already been put together and designed. This is all highly produced.

You got to hand to it Jenner's camp, to the Kardashian camp, to Kris Jenner. This is brilliant marketing. And for anyone to say that this is a transgender person moving at their pace is absurd.

Having gone through the process, this is a very slow, difficult process to go through. Everything changes. And it's being done very publicly.

I publicly transitioned. It was not the way to go. And, you know, one has to wonder what Jenner is truly thinking.

BURNETT: Dr. Spack, I know that you're saying this is a bit out of your purview. But what is your reaction when you hear that from Zoey as someone who has gone through this?

SPACK: Well, I do understand it. I do have to say that when I first was involved with Sawyer's show, I was concerned at the total publicity of the whole thing.

And I was even more concerned and most concerned when after the show I heard that there was going to be a reality show separate from the Kardashian show that involved Bruce now slash Caitlyn alone.

I didn't really see what was to be gained from that. In my experience, people going through that like a period of extreme privacy at certain pivotal points along the transitional process.

And I do have to say, Zoey, that I shared your concerns about that. And started to think about the fact that here is a person who spent -- earned money only by virtue of giving motivational speeches and never really had what we might call a real job. And in fact this was turning into a real job.

TUR: You're a good doctor. You're a very good doctor. You make excellent points.

This is a difficult process. It's a very personal, private process. And transitioning, we tend to lose everything, including our friends and our families. And we spend so much time trying to get these things back.

So, to do this publicly is not only difficult, but it's very dangerous because at some point, you know, you crash, you know, because you wind up having this crisis, like, well will my family love me, will I be able to date, will I fall in love again. These are all very real issues.

And you have to be a very strong person. And I wish the best to Jenner. But this is not really the best way of doing things.

BURNETT: All right. I appreciate both of your forthrightness and taking the time. It's a fascinating topic. And I really appreciate your honesty.

OUTFRONT next, we have the dramatic dash cam video of a pastor shot and killed by the very police trying to rescue him from floodwaters. That story is next.

And an Apple computer originally selling for $666.66. Was that really the number of the devil back then? Anyway, 40 years later, you won't believe how much it's going for. Make sure you get your iPad in your will.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:57] BURNETT: A pastor shot and killed by a state trooper. This encounter caught on camera. We have the video for you now tonight.

Officials say police were trying to save two brothers from rising floodwaters in Oklahoma. A confrontation happened, and one of the brothers, a 35-year-old pastor, ended up dead, shot by police on the scene. Nick Valencia is "OUTFRONT."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STATE TROOPER: State troopers, settle down, lie down, you understand me? Settle down.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The dash cam video shows the dramatic and deadly encounter between a pastor and an Oklahoma state trooper. Seconds later, Nehemiah Fischer is seen wrestling with the officers,

then gunshots. The 35-year-old was killed. Fischer's father doesn't understand why his son had to die.

MARTIN FISCHER, FATHER OF NEHEMIAH FISCHER: Life was not in danger. Why? Why did he shoot my son?

VALENCIA: Martin Fischer says it was dark and foggy around 9:30 Friday night as his two sons were pulling their truck from floodwaters. At some point, Fischer says a vehicle approaches.

M. FISCHER: There were no flashing lights that they seen, and they were yelling at them, and they could not hear anything. So, Nehemiah started walking towards them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ready?

VALENCIA: Fischer spoke to CNN before police showed the dash cam video during a press conference this afternoon. Oklahoma state troopers say the dash cam video shows their use of force was justified.

M. FISCHER: And I know Brandon, my oldest son is of course taking the blame for his younger brother --

VALENCIA: Brandon is seen in the video as his brother Nehemiah advances towards the officers, uninjured. He has been charged with assaulting a police officer and public intoxication.

LAURA FISCHER, WIFE OF NEHEMIAH FISCHER: I want to know what they said to him to make them do that, because they would not do that on their own volition.

VALENCIA: For the Fischer family, anger has given way to grief and prayer.

M. FISCHER: The next time I see my son Nehemiah, he'll be in a coffin. I won't be able to hold him and talk to him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: I spoke to the family immediately after the dash cam video was released. And at that time, they said they had still not seen the video. This investigation is still pending. Toxicology reports have still not been completed.

And at a press conference, the Oklahoma state troopers reminded the public that this call was for them to be dispatched to help the two brothers, but it eventually ended in this tragedy -- Erin.

BURNETT: Nick, thank you very much.

Obviously, the pastor being shot and killed.

Paul Callan is with me now. So, Paul, I'm just going to play again so people can see it, the

moment the two brothers are approaching the officers, the one brother had his arms out and was essentially charging. That's the critical moment.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BURNETT: Based on what you see in this moment, is the use of deadly force justified or not?

CALLAN: I don't think the film is absolutely dispositive on it because the test really is that the law hands down is, would a reasonable person in the cops' position have felt themselves to be under attack?

[19:45:01] Now remember, I think the pastor has a gun on him, or this is what we've been told in terms of information we have. So, did the police reasonably think that they were being attacked?

One of the things I like to know --

BURNETT: I mean, you do see, on the far left of the camera, so everyone can see. That's when he charges the one police officer.

CALLAN: Yes, it looks like he's got his hands out and may be ready to jump the cop. But why would somebody being rescued jump a rescuing police officer? And I think the answer to that may be found in the blood alcohol level in him when that result is made public.

Remember, they said public intoxication was charged, at least with respect to one of the two individuals. So maybe the blood alcohol level will tell us the level of intoxication.

BURNETT: Will answer the belligerence.

CALLAN: Yes.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much, Paul Callan.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, one man's rotten apple turns into another's gold. How much did a recycling center get for one of the oldest, slowest computers on earth?

Plus, CNN celebrating a special birthday today. Jeanne Moos has been here pretty much from day one. A look back like only Jeanne can do, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:07] BURNETT: A rare Apple computer sells for $200,000. Tonight, the seller wants to share the wealth with the woman who trashed the vintage computer.

Dan Simon is OUTFRONT with tonight's "Money & Power". (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a graveyard for electronics. Stereos, VHS machines and old computers lining the shelves of a recycling business called CleanBay Area near San Jose.

He's talking about what may have looked like an old worthless computer. The contents turned out to be quite a surprise. The first desktop computer made by the two Steves, Wozniak and Jobs, famously in Steve Jobs garage in 1976.

(on camera): Sometimes you never know what's going to be in that box.

VICTOR GICHUN, CLEANBAY AREA: Oh my gosh! Yes.

SIMON (voice-over): The computer, buried in one of the boxes, dropped off in April by an elderly woman in a hurry.

GICHUN: She said this box was from her husband, he just passed away a couple months ago, and she said I want to clean out the garage. Just take this box, recycle do whatever you want.

SIMON: Victor Gichun said the boxes sat in the warehouse for weeks, until an employee began looking through them.

GICHUN: He called me and said, look at this, I looked at this computer and thought it's fake. Seriously.

SIMON: But a little research and they determined it was the real deal. Only 200 Apple 1 units were ever produced. It's believed about 50 still exist. They become an enormous prize for both auction houses --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ninety-five thousand.

SIMON: -- and collectors, especially following Jobs' death in 2011.

When the recycling company realized what they had, it didn't take long to find a buyer.

(on camera): So, you said $200,000 and he said --

GUCHIN: Yes, I'll see you tomorrow.

SIMON: He brought cash?

GUCHIN: Yes, and we couldn't believe our eyes, because it's ridiculous.

SIMON (voice-over): But the way Victor sees it, half the money belongs to the woman that unknowingly left them a computer that spawned the PC revolution. The business' policy is that they sell something, they split the proceeds 50/50. He never got a name, but certainly remembers her face.

GUCHIN: And we will give you a $100,000 check. SIMON (on camera): Do you think she'll come?

GUCHIN: I hope so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: And the truth is, this computer probably could have fetched more money, a museum in Detroit paid nearly $1 million for one last year, but guess what? They're OK with the $200,000. Basically found money, and they just want to do the right thing and give this woman a cut of the proceeds -- Erin.

BURNETT: So nice to hear that. Somebody wants to do that. And I hope she hears this and comes and gets her $100,000.

Dan Simon, thanks so much.

And next, it is a big birthday today, 35 years for good old CNN. And Jeanne Moos looks back laughing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:33] BURNETT: So, today CNN turned 35, and one person has witnessed it all. That's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amid all the hoopla of CNN celebrating 35 years of itself came this quiz question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard Roth is the longest serving on air personality currently at CNN. Who is second?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry King?

MOOS: Come on, Larry and his suspenders left CNN over four years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeanne Moos?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, look at you.

MOOS: Look at you, look at me, I'm the one that's been at the network for 34 1/2 years. Arriving at CNN for my first job TV in Plattsburgh, New York.

Like my friend here.

Those pigs would prove prophetic. Animals have been a highlight of my CNN years.

Have you ever committed adultery?

Some reporters pulled out all the stops. I pulled out sharp objects at the sword swallowers convention. No, no, no. I don't want to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't want to, but you did a great job.

MOOS: In the early days of CNN, people called us chicken noodle news. I split my time covering both the silly and the serious.

I'm Jeanne Moos, reporting live from the United Nations.

I've worn a lot of different hats. Mostly to keep my hair down.

The wind blows it up.

One of my hairiest moments is when I mixed up an ex-president with a then current one.

President -- sorry, President Nixon.

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I've been called worse than that.

MOOS: I got to pick a lot of my stories, whimsical ones like the life of a traffic cone, how they give up theirs to protect ours. And they spend their lives getting laid over and over.

What's the life span of a cone?

Over the years I've probably done thousands of MOS, man on the street, interviews.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are the world's most famous street walker.

MOOS: While other reporters are out risking life and limb. I just risked limb.

She seems to like being mocked. Hey, just kidding.

Jeanne Moos, still at CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And tonight, we take a look at the past 35 years the stories and moments on CNN. "Breaking News: 35 Years of CNN" tonight at 9:00, only here on CNN.

Thanks so much for joining us. Be sure to set your DVR, you can see OUTFRONT any time, any place, I'll see you back here tomorrow night.

"AC360" with Anderson Cooper, though, begins right now.