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Cruise Ship Capsizes in China's Yangtze River; CNN Poll: 63 Percent Disapprove How Obama Handles ISIS; Caitlyn Jenner Debuts on Vanity Fair Cover. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 2, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF: This slime throwing for some cheap political points to back off, knock it off, let us go back to work. Keep an eye on us -- sure, I have no problem with that. I do that on a daily basis here in my own organization.

But I don't need any involvement from the federal government and I don't need these politicians out there trying to score cheap political points at the expense of the American law enforcement officer. And once we feel confident enough that we have the support of the political class we know we have the support of these communities.

I don't care what people are saying. We could not get this done if we didn't. But once we realize we have the support of the political class, who are not going to use us for political purposes you'll see more assertive policing, more proactive policing.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Sheriff David Clarke, we appreciate you coming on NEW DAY with your perspective.

CLARKE: My pleasure.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're going to go to break, but we're going to give you much more on this deadly river cruise disaster, ongoing right now in China. That is a man tapping on a hull trying to get to trapped survivors. Showing people where to start drilling through the hull, even using torches. This could be the most deadly accident in China's history. We have the latest coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:05] CUOMO: We have breaking news: 400 plus people are fighting to survive in the water right now. Rescuers are scouring waters and trying to -- take a look at this.

This is the Yangtze River in China. That man is using a hammer to tap on the hull that's out of the water right now to find survivors. They believe people are trapped inside this ferry that turned over in the river last night. The captain and the engineer have been taken into custody. They say they were hit by a tornado.

The river experienced very severe weather. This eastern star is still up on top of the water since 9:30 last night. They had half a dozen survive. So many unaccounted for. Five bodies recovered so far. This is way far from over. Remember back in April, we just dealt with this in South Korea some 300 people involved there.

Again, there were charges brought against the captain. Too early to say what's going on with the situation right now in China. But this is a frantic rescue effort going on.

We have CNN on the scene. David McKenzie is there.

David, I was taking people through how we got to this point that it started at night and that they are still searching now. What's the latest?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you can see perhaps the buses passing behind me. They had frantic search through the day here. Weather is playing a big part and also playing a part in our live signal right now because they had people on top of the hull there in this bad weather, tapping on the hull with hammers trying to hear if anyone can callback or tap back in any air pockets underneath the hull where hundreds are believed to still be missing inside this river cruise that's overturned in the Yangtze River.

So, it's a desperate scene right now. They pulled out a few people today but still it's looking really less hopeful as time passes on and serious questions being asked just what happened. It's believed there might have been some sort of weather and if gust of wind that flipped the boat on its side and then on its bow effectively, and the chief engineer and the captain managed to escape.

They have been brought into custody and it really does have a feeling of that ferry disaster in South Korea, you'll remember, Chris, that shocked everyone. It's too early to say, as you say, what exactly happen. But right now, hope is fading with the light. Back to you.

CUOMO: All right. David, thank you very much. And as always a curiosity in these situations when the captain and crew wind up making it and others don't.

CAMEROTA: When they are some of the first off the ship.

CUOMO: They are supposed to stay on and maintain the safety. Those rules of admiralty and, you know, navigation, those go throughout the world. We saw with the "Costa Concordia" in Italy where they had the captain and crew there watching other people while in the safety of a boat that turned out very badly there. We saw in South Korea that the captain was held to account.

Here, the captain is saying it was weather. The weather is very severe there. And yet, he and engineer have been taken into custody. The big headline, though, is hundreds could be trapped in that hull. They are trying to get at them with blow torches and cutting tools. We'll stay on it and let you know what happens.

CAMEROTA: Yes, OK. We will do that.

Meanwhile, more and more Americans say they are not satisfied with the war on ISIS and putting the blame on President Obama. Now a new plan to fight ISIS is emerging.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:42:09] CUOMO: All right. We have some new proof of what should be obvious at this point. Americans like you do not like how the war against ISIS is going and you blame the president. A new CNN/ORC poll say you disapprove of President Obama's approach.

Now, many lawmakers are calling for a change there. We're hearing whispers of boots on the ground, American boots once again. Is that the right move? And is there a bigger move to be made?

Joining us now the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Mr. James Jeffrey.

Ambassador Jeffrey, thank you very much for joining us.

We know people are not happy with how the war is going, they are blaming the president. Here's another poll that gives us some insight as to the government in Iraq. What do we see? Obvious numbers to you, I'm sure -- 20 percent confidence, the rest not confident.

Let's go the map and discuss what may be behind that is a legitimate reason for not having the confidence in the government and that is that you do not have a really homogenous or united in anyway population in Iraq. We're showing people all the different sects. You know, obviously, the Shiites and the Sunnis, but you have the Kurds up in the Northeast. You have the Sunni-Kurd mix, Sunni-Shiite mix down south.

So, the suggestion becomes this for our discussion -- is it time to recognize that the sectarian nature of Iraq is definitive and that it should be split up into regions?

AMB. JAMES JEFFREY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: In my view, absolutely not. First of all, Iraq was holding together pretty well over the bulk of the decade that I was working in or on Iraq.

And what changed? ISIS showed up from Syria. And the better solution is to defeat ISIS. That's the goal of the administration.

If you try to break up Iraq, you'll have a situation like Yugoslavia in the 1990s. No one will know where to draw the borders. People from one sect or religious group will be on the other side and they will want to join their compatriots and the result is everyone fighting everyone.

We had this country and the Iraqis had this country under something relative close to peace until 2012 and 2013. And we can get it back to that level, I think.

CUOMO: And the struggle has been pronounced along these lines which part of Iraq are you talking about. We see the problems very clearly demonstrated and the problems with the military and who to arm.

I mean, clearly, the idea of a centralized government is not working the way it needs to. Why so immediately resistant to the idea of seeing more regional control? It works in other places.

JEFFREY: Regional control, decentralization of power actually is not a bad idea. That's what the Kurds have in the north. That's one of the proposals to empower the Sunni Arabs who are in the west of the country where ISIS has made most of its gains. More local involvement, more local engagement, more local say over their own lives, including their security is not a bad idea.

[06:45:04] But that's not incompatible with a nation status or incompatible with a sovereign set of borders. When you try to create independent countries along ethnic lines or religious lines, you're opening the door to even more trouble. The way forward with Iraq and in Syria is to defeat ISIS, and if we don't get our mind around that it's going to grow and it's become ever more of a threat to us and the entire region.

CUOMO: Well, two things, one obviously your consideration looms large. The words Belford doctrine comes to mine, obviously, when you draw lines in the sand we can have problems. We're all living with them today.

However, when you look at why ISIS is a problem, it seems fairly clear. The one thing that distinguishes this group of mad men is you had these Baathists, Sunni, Saddam loyalists leave, feel disenfranchised, and take their capabilities and their anger with them and now make ISIS what it is today. And that does speak to the idea of addressing the sectarian conflict.

My confusion is, I say split them up into different regions, that's an idea. You say don't do that but regional control is OK. Is that just a semantic difference you don't have to redraw the borders to remove the power and give to it the people?

JEFFREY: No, everybody in that region understands the difference between local control, local governance and an independent state and the sovereignty that comes with it, and particularly the identity of the state.

If you are a Sunni Arab who winds up in a Kurdish state or a Shia Arab in a Sunni Arab state you just lost your identity. Whereas if you're in a states multicultural state like Iraq, you can have disparate identity and still be part of the larger whole.

In terms of the Baathist, you're absolutely right. But we had to deal with those Baathist officers from 2003 to 2012. By and large, they were under control and defeated by their own Sunni Arabs in the awakening.

What's different now is ISIS. ISIS and its military capabilities that have to be fought by military means. You can break Iraq up or not break Iraq up. The problem remains you have to defeat ISIS and that's a military problem.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And obviously, where these two ideas come together is that to beat ISIS, you're going to need to do better with the different regional populations that are fighting because the Iraq army by itself isn't doing it on several different levels. So, the question is how do you get around that central government and take this fight the way you need to on a local level.

Ambassador, thank you very much, James Jeffrey, for giving us the perspective as always -- Alison.

JEFFREY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

To another big story people are talking about today, Bruce Jenner has transitioned to a woman and her new identity as Caitlyn Jenner is on full display on the cover of "Vanity Fair".

So, we will bring you the revelation from this in depth profile and the reaction to it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:51:49] CAMEROTA: Bruce Jenner setting a new record not as an Olympic athlete but as a woman, hitting one million followers on Twitter in just four hours. Jenner revealing her new identity as Caitlyn on the cover of "Vanity Fair".

And joining us now to talk about reaction, CNN senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES", Brian Stelter. And Kimberly Reed, a filmmaker who documented her transition from a male high school star athlete to a transgendered woman.

Great to have both of you here.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Kimberly let me start with you. What do you think of seeing Caitlyn Jenner on the cover of "Vanity Fair"?

KIMBERLY REED, TRANSGENDER ADVOCATE & FILMMAKER: I just think it's a really important moment for the transgender community. The most important thing is just humanize transgender people and to do that you got to get to know someone. We all kind of know someone who is transgender now.

CUOMO: The easy thing to do as we were discussing before and up to this point of Bruce Jenner you could argue was predominant in private company was to push transgender aside. I don't even know that fits --

CAMEROTA: To marginalize.

CUOMO: These are people who cry for help. Now you have Bruce Jenner. And what statement does he make to people?

STELTER: Well, we all know him as the world athlete, as the superstar, as the man on the Wheaties box. So, to fully embrace his female self and to speak in a way that's so relatable and humanizing, talk about not wanting to live a lie any more, that this is the real me -- that's something everybody can relate to in their own unique way.

You know, we talk about that Twitter record. Now it's almost 2 million for Caitlyn Jenner. Now she has this mega phone. She's using the mainstream media and social media in order to make this message reach the whole world.

CAMEROTA: You know, Kim, I naively thought Caitlyn was going to look like Bruce Jenner with long hair, but it doesn't. She doesn't. And she talks about having facial feminization surgery and -- I mean, the fact that she's in lingerie. There's a big statement. I mean, this is a different person that we're looking at.

REED: Yes. She's not messing around. All I know is that I want Annie Leibovitz to take my photos.

(LAUGHTER)

REED: And I do think it's important to keep in mind that we're talking about somebody who has a lot of resources.

STELTER: Yes. We should say that a lot of money to go through these procedures, right?

REED: A lot of money and --

CAMEROTA: She looks different than some other people who are transitioned because she had a lot of cosmetic surgery.

REED: I think probably there's a lot of support in that way.

But I think, you know, at the end of the day the support that matters the most is the support and love that's coming from her friends and family. And what I hope is that Caitlyn coming out is going to let a lot of other families just going to give them the green light to say you know what? It's okay if I support by transdaughter or son, if my friend who's transgender, who just came out is going to share that with me, then I'm going to find a way to be supportive.

CUOMO: Your take on something, part of the stink that was put on Bruce Jenner when this was happening, oh, he's a reality star now he'll do anything for attention. How much time, how much pain, how serious is something like going through this transition?

REED: You know, I don't even think you can call it a decision to go through this.

[06:55:02] I didn't feel like it was a decision made for me. There was no decision to be made. It was something that I had to do.

For me, I transitioned a while ago but just a matter of how long I could stave it off and hide it and keep it hidden.

CUOMO: There's nothing convenient about it. There's nothing easy about it.

REED: Absolutely, absolutely. I think if anybody had to choose to go through this stuff you'll say no that's too much work. I don't want to go through that.

CUOMO: When we were prepping for this segment, our EP was given these great ideas about things coming up as reaction to this. The lingerie as you said. That she's 65. She didn't go into a cave to avoid the Kardashian.

STELTER: Right, right.

CUOMO: Is that good news that we're discussing? I was dismissing. I don't care.

Maybe that's a good level of discussion to have because it shows the big headline, Bruce Jenner is now Caitlyn Jenner.

CAMEROTA: We're accepting that.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: We're worried about what she's wearing and her hair.

STELTER: Last night, it was all about Jessica Lange and how she looks like Jessica Lange, how Jessica Lange thought it was wonderful, right?

It is entertainment news. It's also historic milestone. It's good we're covering it on all of those levels. I've seen negativity online in the past few hours, but I think overwhelmed by the positivity especially among young people.

CAMEROTA: But, Kim, I do want to talk about the family, because I feel for Kris Jenner. I mean, this must be so disorienting for Kris Jenner to see this person to whom she was married, has children with, lived with for decades, disappear.

REED: You know, people, my family and friends some of them will speak of loss or a death. But you know what? Even though they said that initially, the ones who stuck around, because I did lose some friends, the ones who stuck around would be hard pressed now to reflect back 20 years and say if I was male or female at the time. The point being that who you really are is more important and people tend to forget about whether you were male or female at the time.

CAMEROTA: That's so interesting. Your essence is still there but I don't think Kris Kenner is there yet.

REED: It's going to take a while.

CUOMO: Well, let me tell you, she's got a very specific set of emotions with this. But here's a world that will have to reconcile. What about the guy who broke all the records and Wheaties box and helped shape the minds and hearts of so many kids, how do we reconcile that with Caitlyn? Is Bruce still there? That was Bruce was. You know, was that Caitlyn?

There are a lot of questions that are going to spin on it.

STELTER: That's why it's very smart she will be accepting the ESPY Award on ESPN, in front of all her peers on the sports world next month, before her reality show premieres on E!

CAMEROTA: It will be interesting to watch.

Brian Stelter, Kimberly Reed, thank you so much. Great to get your perspective on all this.

STELTER: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: What is your take? Please tweet us using the #NewDayCNN or post your comment on Facebook.com/NewDay.

We'd love to read your thoughts.

CUOMO: Caitlyn Jenner, big story. But a lot of news this morning, especially this ship capsized in China. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: River cruise capsizes in China.

CAMEROTA: Among the survivors the ship's captain and chief engineer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A desperate search is under way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Kerry is now back in the United States after breaking his leg.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kerry's injury could impact several critical discussions including the ongoing nuclear discussions with Iran.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Quit wasting time on innocent American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The National Security Agency officially shut down its phone metadata collection program.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The White House still will not spell out whether or not Americans are less safe now.

CUOMO: The families of Americans being held in Iran are headed to Capitol Hill today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please help me at home.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alison Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. Michaela is off this morning.

We do begin with breaking news for you because a frantic search is under way for survivors after a river cruise ship sinks in China. Hundreds of people were on board this ship and they are feared dead. Rescuers like this man using a hammer hoping to hear any signs of life inside.

CUOMO: They're the tapping on the hull. They are hoping to hear sounds back. Then using cutting tools and even blow torches to get in. Why aren't they going underneath? The water is moving quickly in the Yangtze River, and there's a ship underneath, it's too deep underneath for them to get in that way, and that's the struggle that's going on.

In terms of survivors, we do know that about a dozen people have been rescued. We do know that five bodies have been recovered and most importantly, the ship's captain and engineer both survived and were taken into police custody.

Let's get right to the scene. That's where CNN is. David McKenzie live in China -- David.

MCKENZIE: Well, that's right, Chris. It's been a terrible day here in China with scores, in fact hundreds stuck under the hull of that river cruise. Some of them tapping back when they tapped with the hammer as you described.

They had divers. They have military here. They had all sorts of personnel, all in the area, rushing to scene to try and get people out.