Return to Transcripts main page
NEW DAY SATURDAY
Dallas Police: Department Under Attack; Prison Worker Charged in Killers' Escape; Clinton to Give First Major Campaign Speech Today. Aired 7-8a ET
Aired June 13, 2015 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Tom Fuentes, CNN law enforcement analyst, keeping us up-to-date on the different context as we are seeing things develop in Dallas and with this search for the two inmates out of New York and now this alert to be on the lookout in Texas for Richard Matt.
[07:00:07] Tom, stay with us.
Our breaking news continues right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Breaking right now. A shoot-out and explosion in front of a Dallas police headquarters there. Officers tweeting, "For the first time, we are under attack." And right now, a standoff is ongoing with at least one suspect.
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, we are getting our first look at the woman accused of helping two escaped killers in jail, Joyce Mitchell, cuffed and in court overnight, pleading not guilty to charges she gave the inmates hacksaw blades, chisels and a drill bit just weeks before they became the focus of the nationwide manhunt you are seeing unfold this morning.
So grateful to have your company as always. I'm Christi Paul.
BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.
And, of course, we are continuing with breaking news -- this active standoff continuing between the suspects, potentially up to four, Dallas SWAT team in a fast food restaurant's parking lot.
First, let's look at how all of this started. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: OK, that black vehicle you saw just pulling away, that is the vehicle that is currently in a standoff with police, as Victor said, there could be up to four attackers here that may have been firing automatic weapons from various locations in this attack you're watching right now. After the shoot-out, though, police found suspicious bags near the headquarters. We know at least one contained explosives.
Well, now, we know two of them did because two have detonated. One was detonated by a controlled method, by the explosives ordnance division when they found it underneath a police truck. Another detonated on its own when a police robot from the department was trying to move it or get towards it to see what was in it. There are, as we understand it, evacuations as well around the area of the police headquarters.
We have been talking to some people who are holed up there in a hallway now. He said, what? About 50, 60 people?
BLACKWELL: Yes, in the hallways there, trying to stay away from windows. We should say about these two explosives, these packages, two of six have been investigated. One exploded as this robot, the explosives ordnance division, robot from the police department approached it. It exploded on its own. The second was exploded by the robot.
We don't know if there were explosives inside the package under this vehicle in the parking lot. But that was detonated this package under a vehicle at the headquarters parking lot.
Now, after the shoot-out, we are talking about 1:30 Eastern Time now, police chased as more suspects jumped into that van that has been described as an armored van. The attackers and officers, they exchanged gunfire before police cornered them in this restaurant parking lot, the fast food restaurant near the interstate near I-20 and I-45, and that's where we are now.
SWAT teams in talks with the suspects. We know that one says he is injured. One suspect has identified himself as James Boulware, white male, 5'10", 200 pounds.
We have also learned from the Dallas police department that that vehicle has been disabled using a .50 caliber rifle.
Let's play a bit of the news conference that was held this morning. Watch.
CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: On June 13th, at approximately 12:30 a.m., witnesses observed what they believed to be multiple suspects firing guns at the Dallas police department's headquarters, located at 1400 South Lamar Street. The suspects were parked in front of police headquarters.
As police officers arrived, the suspects rammed Dallas police officers squad cars and began shooting at the officers, striking the squad cars, but missing the officers. Officers returned fire, at which time, the suspect fled the location of 1400 Lamar location and what witnesses say is an armored vehicle.
Officers gave chase in their police cars of the suspects south of Dallas to the parking lot of a jack in the box at 121 South Interstate 45 Service Road in Hutchins, Texas.
[07:05:17] And the car stopped and parked there at around 12:44 a.m. While in the parking lot, there was another exchange of gunfire between the suspects and officers. The squad cars were struck during that exchange. However, no officers were injured.
The suspects refused to exit the vehicle. At which time, the officers set up a perimeter. Our SWAT team was called, and has since begun negotiations with the suspect. SWAT officers are currently talking with the suspect by cell phone and trying to find a peaceful solution.
The suspect gave a name to identify himself but we haven't confirmed that is him. That name he gave us was James Boulware. B-O-U-L-W-A-R- E. He is a white male, 5'10", 200 pounds.
Witnesses at police headquarters gave preliminary information that there might be more than one suspect. There might be up to four suspects. And of these suspects, they were shooting at police headquarters and at police officers from different locations, possibly elevated locations. But we have yet to confirm that witness information.
Dallas police headquarters and all seven of our police substations are secure. Our explosives ordnance detonation unit is investigating four suspicious bags left in front of Dallas police headquarters.
As I was walking out to talk with you all, one of those bags have been confirmed by our bomb squad to have explosives in them, pipe bombs is what has been described to me by our explosives unit. We are in the process of evacuating residents of the south side on Lamar complex located at 1409 South Lamar Street.
I reiterate. No Dallas officers have been injured. This is a preliminary investigation. This is an active investigation. Meaning the police headquarters scene is a active shooter's scene until we confirm first that there are no other suspects at that scene waiting to ambush officers and we have ongoing discussions with the suspect in Hutchins.
The suspect has told our negotiators that we took his child and we accused him of being a terrorist, and that he is going to blow us up. And then cut off negotiations. We cannot confirm a motive at this time. What we are asking from the
public, we need their support, we need information. We have learned through social media that several witnesses used their cell phones to video the suspects' shooting at various locations in and around the police headquarters during the first gunfire exchange.
What we're doing, we are asking any and all witnesses to forward any video or to contact us through social media to give us that information. I'm going to give several ways the public can do that.
First, anonymously, you can send us information through iWatch Dallas app available in the App store or on Google play. You can use Twitter @dallaspd. The Dallas Police Department. You can also send it on Facebook. We will be updating the public on our DPD blog, and you can e-mail our public information office information about any information you have regarding these suspects in this incident through the pioxdpd.dallascityhall.com. That's pioxdpd.dallascityhall.com.
[07:10:09] Now, I'll take questions.
REPORTER: The van. At this point, you believe that there is only one suspect in the van?
BROWN: We cannot confirm whether there is just one suspect in the van. We have talked with at least one suspect, but witnesses say that there might have been a suspect who got in the van and then that there might have been a suspect who failed to get in the van before it pulled off. So, there potentially are four suspects, according to witnesses.
BLACKWELL: All right. We have been listening to Dallas Police Department Chief David Brown there detailing just a little earlier this morning what's been happening there at the police headquarters as the department says it is under attack.
I want to bring back in Tristan Hallman, a reporter for "The Dallas Morning News."
Tristan, thank you for being with us. We heard the chief there say the suspect who has identified himself and police have not been able to confirm this just yet, as James Boulware.
Let's put up what we know about him on the screen, white male, 5'10" and 200 pounds. James Boulware said they accused him of being a terrorist, that they took his child and cut off negotiations.
As this standoff continues, do we know if those negotiations have resumed?
TRISTAN HALLMAN, DALLAS MORNING NEWS (via telephone): That's unclear right now. We know that the SWAT team has disabled the vehicle, meaning they shot at the tires. The car is not going anywhere. But it's unclear whether negotiations are still ongoing. You have to assume that they are. Sometimes, negotiations get cut off and then will resume at a later point. But those channels are pretty tight to the vest.
BLACKWELL: Tristan, let's talk about these packages. We know that there is a total of six. There were four suspicious bags that were found outside of the headquarters, the Dallas Police Department headquarters. Then one found at a northeast substation, a dumpster there and another found under a vehicle at the police headquarters under a truck there.
One of the bags detonated on its own. The package under the vehicle was detonated using the robot that is used by the explosives ordnance division.
Do we know if there were explosives found in any of the other packages?
HALLMAN: We don't know that just yet. Usually, they blow them up as precaution, especially after the first package was found to have explosives. One has to assume that all of these duffel bags sort of conspicuously placed in various spots around the police headquarters, that they probably are all related.
But they are taking an abundance of precaution. The northeast patrol station seems like it would be an outlier on this situation, but others are taking no possible risks here.
BLACKWELL: Tristan, also, give us an idea -- I imagine this is in downtown Dallas where this headquarters is located. How much of the area has been cordoned off and evacuated?
HALLMAN: It's actually an area just outside of downtown and it's really been developing these last couple of years, so they are actively trying to make sure that the south side of Lamar Apartments which is a big apartment complex that is across the street, is evacuated. There is a hotel over there. We got people here sitting on the curb who couldn't make it back to their hotel. They got (INAUDIBLE).
They expanded the perimeter quite a ways and they have got traffic blocked off for huge sections of the street here, but it's still early in the morning. So, it really hasn't been a big problem yet, but we are starting -- the sun is coming out now so we will see how that goes.
BLACKWELL: So, it's a Friday night just after midnight when this started local time about 12:30. Is this an area that is typically full of people leaving bars and clubs or is it typical isolated? Give us an idea how the streets would look like around the headquarters on a Friday night.
HALLMAN: It's somewhere between that. It's an area that has been developing. There is a couple of bars over in that area. There's hotel bars but it's pretty sparsely populated by pedestrians. I'm not sure whether there are any concerts going on. It doesn't look like it, but there is a concert venue over there. So you always have the risk in that situation of having a lot of people, but, for the most part, that area, a little bit pedestrian traffic but that's about it. BLACKWELL: All right. Tristan Hallman with "The Dallas Morning News"
-- thank you so much.
And we've got our law enforcement analyst with us this morning.
PAUL: Yes, Cedric Alexander is with us, who just happens to be in Dallas this morning.
[07:15:00] We also have Tom Fuentes with us as well, former FBI assistant director.
Cedric, I want to go to you first since you're there in Dallas, have you heard anything new?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Well, I'm about a mile away from the police station and certainly looking outside of where I am, not very much is going on this time of morning. But, of course a mile doesn't sound very far away, but it is regards to considering the fact I'm sure that many of the streets are going to be blocked off since the police department is a crime scene itself.
So, this is going to be a long and enduring day here in Dallas here as this continues to unfold, as you heard the chief say there earlier.
PAUL: He said they are currently working on processing at least two crime scenes and that is inclusive of the ongoing standoff near I-20 and I-45. So, when you are -- when you've -- I know at one point, they were saying they were working to get additional officers in to deal with 911 calls because certainly you've got this going on in Dallas and two different crime scenes. But there are other people that are in need of police.
Help us understand how strapped might they be and what is the strategy to cover everything?
ALEXANDER: Well, when something like this happens of this magnitude, certainly it puts a great deal of strain on a police department. I would imagine -- I can only speculate what the public going to do is call in additional officers, but you still don't have in this community where you have over a million people in the city of Dallas, you're still going to have your normal calls for service.
And in addition to that, too, they are probably going to get calls of leads they may happen to follow as well. So I think it's a very important time for this community, as it would be for any American community right now in this type of crisis, is to make sure that they stay in close contact with their community representatives and their police department as well too.
And here again, I want to reinforce the fact Chief Brown there I couldn't do that anyone who may have information on any video that might be helpful in this investigation to get that information to them. That is critically important. So certainly do want to encourage anyone in and around the community who may have video as relate to the initial call in this shooting that took place. It's certainly helpful to their investigation to help move things along. But let's keep, here again, I think it's important that the community as well too, keep their local police department, encourage and provide whatever support that they can to them right now.
PAUL: Which the police have actually tweeted out as well asking for the very same thing.
Tom Fuentes, I want to bring you in here and talk about real quickly this possible suspect, this man, through negotiation, who identified himself as James Boulware. And we heard the police chief there, Police Chief Brown say, "He told us we took his child and now he is going to blow us up."
It sounds as though -- we may have a motive here to some degree, based on what this one individual is saying. How do they proceed if they know who he is? How does that change their strategy perhaps or the negotiations?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, as they gather intelligence on them and give them clues how to treat this and determine how deranged he might be, or out of control, or how insane or to what degree they can negotiate. You know, at this point, they have several advantages -- and having one several barricaded subject or hostage situations in the past, the police have a tremendous advantage in this situation. If they used an armor piercing shell and probably put a fatal bullet through the engine of the vehicle, they are not going anywhere. They won't shoot the tires out because you can still drive on rims. So, I'm guessing here they shot a hole in the engine.
But that guy is not going anywhere. They have got him surrounded and he is stranded. They have the advantage he's not in an apartment building or a house so they don't have to worry, are there little children inside, other hostages?
So, if they are pretty sure they have got just him or just other partners of him in crime, and it's in an isolated out in a remote area where they can shut off traffic and just keep people out of that jack in the box for the rest of the day, they have all of the advantage on the side of the police, and now they can negotiate with him, letting him know that they have that advantage, but also letting him know no one has died yet, there has been no, you know, fatality on any side, let's try to negotiate peacefully and negotiate with him on that basis.
I think at some point, if they are certain no other innocent person in that vehicle or if it is occupied with other people that are involved with this, they can think about finding a way, an opening in that vehicle to pump in gas to get them out of it.
[07:20:00] BLACKWELL: Tom, with we just got this update via Twitter from the Dallas Police Department. We have been working to get them on the phone but they are not granting phone interviews now, speaking specifically through -- exclusively through social media.
Two explosive devices were found at Dallas Police Department headquarters, all suspected packages have now been cleared there. Again, two explosive devices found at the headquarters there. All suspected packages have been cleared there.
We know of one that exploded this morning. We would like to know if -- I'm sure they are watching or listening -- if this includes the one that exploded this morning, and this is not an additional two? Or if this is the one that exploded this morning and an additional one that was found there? If they could give us some clarity on these two explosive devices found at headquarters. We know there is also the package at the northeast substation, the suspicious package in the dumpster that they are trying to figure out if that is also an explosive.
I want to go back to James Boulware, though, tom. Now they have this name, whether this is or is not, they are trying to authenticate that, what is the process to kind of learn more about him? Are they calling his friends, his family? What are police doing to find out more about James Boulware right now likely?
FUENTES: That is exactly right. What occurs is the on-scene commander directing all of the resources, the SWAT team, the negotiators, the officers with an eye on that vehicle, the perimeter people, that part of it is being controlled but there is a tremendous off-scene investigation that's also being run.
In a case like this, you're exactly right. They will go through everything they know about him that's on record and in their files. Immediately start looking for family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, anybody else that he has ever associated with that they know of and go to those people and interview them. Did you have any idea he was going to do this? Is this a suicide by cop situation? What is the mentality if they can determine it based on his background and everything they can find out about him?
Back to Christi's earlier question about resources that Cedric Alexander answered. Yes, they will have other departments in the surrounding area that can come in and help augment their staffing. At this point, it sounds like probably the biggest augmentation they need is for crime scene investigators and something certainly Dallas PD and Texas Department of Public Safety, the FBI, ATF, they can marshal a lot of different crime scene people to process all of the forensic evidence from the explosive devices, the suspicious packages, as well as all of the bullet holes that are going to be in police headquarters and in the various police vehicles that were involved in these shootings.
BLACKWELL: It's interesting --
PAUL: You say that, yes.
BLACKWELL: -- you bring that up. Guys, let's put the Twitter page up on screen. If someone is there by the computer, just refresh it because they have just tweeted out some of the pictures of the damage at headquarters.
And we can see there, if you click one of the pictures, you can see the bullet holes and I count in just one picture, three bullet holes there. They have got another one here. If you go to that -- that one there, you can see -- let's go to one in the bottom right. You can see there probably a dozen or more bullet holes as we cycle through the windows there of headquarters.
And we know there had been, as reported, these two explosive devices, and as the sun comes up, as they try to get a better handle of what is happening there. We will see more evidence of the damage caused overnight.
PAUL: We should also point out --
FUENTES: Could I make one more comment?
PAUL: Yes, go right ahead, Tom.
FUENTES: OK, this an editorial comment on my part. We talk about the militarization of the police. This is why we have that. You have a police department under attack with individuals with military style assault rifles in an armored car. That's why the police need armored vehicles and high-powered rifles.
PAUL: Tom, I know a lot of people are sitting at home and one of the first things Victor and I talked about this morning. How does one obtain an armored vehicle?
FUENTES: Well, there's many ways. You have all of these various companies that go to businesses and pick up their cash to take for cash deposit, you know, many of the well-known companies that do that service. So they could have stolen one. They could have gotten, you know, the assistance of one of their friend that drives for one of those companies, able to get a hold of it.
You have a lot of other private vehicles that are up armored and purchased by corporate executives or other government agencies, in many cases, could be used overseas, but, in some cases here. So, it's not impossible to get their hands on an armored vehicle.
And, of course, we have 300 million guns in this country. We don't outlaw assault rifles. We don't outlaw ballistic armor for the common citizen.
[07:25:04] And we don't outlaw armored piercing shells in the hands of our public.
So, we have the most militarized public in the world and then we question why the police need military equipment to go up against that.
PAUL: So, Tom, real quickly, if we can put those pictures back up and I retweeted them on my account as well at Twitter.
But the pictures from the police department of the shattered windows there. When you look at all the bullet holes, and I should point out -- I wanted to get this in there too, Tom. You were mentioning 911 calls. They did also tweet out they are holding officers from deep night shifts to work on getting caught up on the 911 calls that are coming in.
But when you look at these pictures, is it capable, you think, one person could pull this off or do you think there are multiple people?
FUENTES: It looks like multiple people, but with assault rifles, one person could fire at a high rate of speed, with a semiautomatic assault rifle or even an automatic. So, hearing the sound from the video you played earlier, it does sound like multiple weapons being fired that there is a lot of bullets being fired in a short period of time.
PAUL: But certainly some of those could have been the police firing back, yes?
FUENTES: I don't know at this time the police were immediately firing back. We don't know the timing of the video clip that you played. So, that's true. It could be the police shooting back. We just don't know at this point.
I would say if the police on the street encountered this individual or group of individuals, they would have been severely outgunned going up against assault rifles and an armored vehicle, in a squad car with their handguns.
PAUL: Uh-huh. It does take a boldness to go to a police department.
FUENTES: They could have picked a time at shift change where there is 50 to a hundred police officers out in the parking lot bringing in vehicles and getting in their vehicles to go home. I mean, this could have been a slaughter, much worse than what has happened right now.
BLACKWELL: But if that is the intent to inflict harm in a huge way, they have got an armored vehicle, packaged with explosives, why choose 12:30 local?
FUENTES: Good question. Maybe the fact that fewer people would be out and about and they would be able to deliver these packages and put them under police vehicles in the lot or in front of a police station or other places. It may just be that, you know, there's less people out at that time of night.
BLACKWELL: All right. Tom Fuentes and Cedric Alexander, both CNN law enforcement analysts, thank you so much.
Also, our thanks to Tristan Hallman, reporter for "The Dallas Morning News" with us throughout the morning.
Much more on this breaking story. We are getting our first look at the damage at the headquarters there from the Dallas Police Department and we will put those pictures up as we head to break. Shots fired through the windows there.
We've also learned that two explosive devices were found just the last minutes. All suspected packages have now been cleared there at the headquarters. More on our breaking news throughout the morning.
PAUL: Because there is still, at this hour, a standoff going on with the suspect.
BLACKWELL: At this point.
PAUL: At least one standoff we know, between the suspect in this case and the police at a separate location.
Also, we are getting the first pictures of the prison employee accused of helping two prisoners escape. Look at her here, making her first court appearance. We will take a closer look at the charges against her and what her punishment may be.
BLACKWELL: Plus, as hundreds of officers take part in the search for those two inmates out of upstate New York, officers in Texas are also being told to be on the lookout for one of those convicted killers. We've got new details on the search next.
[07:31:52] BLACKWELL: New video in to CNN of the moment that -- actually, just after a vehicle -- armored vehicle as it's described, rammed into a police cruiser. This shot from -- what looks like a balcony or a rooftop. Let's listen to the gunfire.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
PAUL: All right. So, you saw the van, the armored van ram the police car and there they go. One police car after another chasing them. The chase ended in a Jack in the Box parking lot near I-20 and I-45 and we understand that is where that van and the person or persons in it are still talking with police as they try to negotiate and get them out of the van.
We do understand that the person -- that they are talking to has given his name, James Boulware, that is who he says he is. He told them, quote -- well, the police officer told us that he said, he told us we took his child and now he is going to blow us up.
BLACKWELL: Let's look now at the first pictures of the damage that have been tweeted out from the Dallas Police Department.
This is, they tell us, the damage from the shots fired at the headquarters. You see the bullet holes there in the windows. This picture alone you see about a dozen and a close-up shot here of what happened there at the police department headquarters.
There are also the reports from the department that two explosives were found there at headquarters as well and all other packages have been cleared. They just tweeted out that the explosive detection canine unit is at the scene as well. We know that not only at the headquarters where there are those four packages that were found, the suspicious bags. There was also a package found in the dumpster at the northeast substation, but, again, two explosives found, all suspicious packages now cleared at headquarters. PAUL: So, we are going to obviously keep you posted on what we
learned because this is an ongoing situation right now. They are processing, police say, two different crime scenes.
[07:35:02] Obviously, the crime scene there at department headquarters, as well as the scene where the standoff is.
Again, that standoff is ongoing. No one is in custody. We just know that that van with the person or persons in it who they believe to be responsible for this, who they chased from the department headquarters, is in that van and that the van is disabled. But they have not made any headway in terms of getting that person out just yet.
BLACKWELL: And that's just one of the breaking news stories we are covering this morning.
BLACKWELL: There is another one -- the hunt for two convicted killers who escaped from an upstate New York prison. Well, their alleged accomplice Joyce Mitchell pleaded not guilty after being accused of helping Richard Matt and David Sweat in their pretty brazen escape.
Court documents now reveal she was the person who gave Matt and Sweat hacksaw blades, chisels, drill bits that help them break out of prison. Meanwhile, search teams hope they are closing in on the two, as more than 800 federal, state and local law enforcement officers have, in effect, shut down an upstate New York community.
Plus, this morning, police officers in Texas are being asked to be on the lookout for inmate Richard Matt. He has a family connection in south Texas border city and officials warn that Matt may have intentions to cross into Mexico.
PAUL: So, let's go to CNN investigations correspondents Sara Ganim right now. She is live with us in West Plattsburgh, New York.
Sara, thanks for being with us. What have you learned this morning?
SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christi and Victor.
Yes, we are on the eastern edge of the search perimeter. Actually, vehicle searches are going on around us constantly, and more than 800 law enforcement officials, state, local, federal, they continue their search. This is now day number of their search. They are chasing leads, more than 700 leads that have come in. Those two convicted killers still on the run.
However, the woman who police say may have helped them escape is now behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant is charged here with two offenses. GANIM (voice-over): Shackled and appearing terrified. Prison-tailor-
turned-prisoner Joyce Mitchell was arraigned late Friday night, accused of helping Richard Matt and David Sweat break out of the Clinton county correctional facility. She faces a felony charge of promoting prison contraband and a misdemeanor of criminal facilitation charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bail set in $100,000 cash and $200,000 bond on the felony. And $10,000 cash and $20,000 bond on the misdemeanor.
GANIM: The two killers have been on the run for a week. But it's Joyce who now faces up to eight years behind bars. Authorities say she provided them lighted glasses, hacksaw blades, chisels and drill bits to cut their way out of prison. But she got cold feet, authorities say, when it came time to get behind the wheel as the get- away driver.
Since then, Joyce has been cooperating with police. She told investigators that Matt made her feel special, but sources tell CNN she had a relationship with both prisoners.
And it gets even more complicated. Joyce is married to a fellow prison worker who is now also under investigation. Lyle Mitchell worked in the maintenance department of the same tailoring block that his wife worked and where both fugitives worked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have information that is coming through, through interviews just through our investigation that he possibly could have been involved or at least had knowledge of what was happening.
REPORTER: Any idea of what his role might have been?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have information on what part of his role would be, and I hate to keep saying this to everyone, but this is an investigation not only is focusing on, obviously, taking Matt and Sweat back into custody, but we are pursuing other people that were involved.
GANIM: Bloodhounds picked up the fugitives' scent Wednesday night, a mile away from a gas station, and nothing panned out despite hundreds of leads and an intense manhunt.
GANIM: Now, yesterday, that search intensified when a woman posted to Facebook that two men were seen scaling a wall near her parents' home. Authorities moved in with all-terrain vehicles but, ultimately, nothing was found -- Victor and Christi.
PAUL: All right. Sara Ganim, thank you so much.
Let's talk to Dr. Jeff Gardere about this. He's a psychologist and a professor of behavioral medicine.
Jeff, so glad to have you with us. So, Joyce Mitchell, let's talk about her specifically.
DR. JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.
PAUL: I -- we have seen the video of her. These new pictures we have gotten overnight of her arraignment. And she looks, as a lot of people have described, she looks terrified.
How do you -- how much do you think she knew about really what -- how cognizant was she of what she was doing, do you think?
GARDERE: Well, certainly we haven't heard any history of mental illness in her past or some sort of psychosis.
[07:40:00] So, I would imagine, not, of course, having examined her, that she knew what she was involved in, but many people are saying, the experts are saying, the sources within the prison, are saying she was a mark. She was manipulated.
Of course, she went into it with eyes wide open, but certainly, she was duped into something and was groomed perhaps for quite sometime through her relationship with either one or both of those men.
PAUL: And we should point out, we do not know what that relationship was.
PAUL: Whether she felt like she was under threat, whether it was a romantic relationship. But let's look at -- this is just mind boggling to me, the fact that this is not an uncommon theme for prisons. First of all, in Baltimore, 13 women helped inmates bring drugs into jail and we understand there was a romantic relationship there because four of them became pregnant. In Oklahoma, you got a wife of a warden on who helped an inmate escape. In Arizona, inmate's wife shot at prison guards and then the situation in Kansas where a guard left her job and ran off with an inmate.
What is the appeal, Jeff?
GARDERE: Well, what we need to understand is that it is a person who is usually at emotional risk. Someone who has had, perhaps, a very bad marriage, someone who comes from a very abusive home, especially from childhood, and therefore, they try to get an emotional rescue by getting involved with someone who they feel, in some ways, is a substitute for that individual that they were in an abusive relationship with.
With women who are employees and they get involved with male prisoners, it's usually around issues of love and romance, so they believe. But they are really being used.
With male guards being involved, their situation is more about sex, being able to have sex with female prisoners and not being so emotionally attached. PAUL: So, real quickly, when we talk about the abilities of some of
these inmates, you know, when you look at Richard Matt, the fact that he kidnapped a man and beat him to death back in 1997, he has been called -- I heard him called a psychopath. Psychopaths have an incredible ability to manipulate, do they not?
GARDERE: Yes, they do. I mean, their whole life is about dishonesty, lies, manipulation, hurting other people, not having a conscience. So, they don't look at a person as being an equal. They don't look at a woman as someone that they respect. They will look at that as someone they can take advantage of that person.
And excuse the term -- but they almost seek out or smell that person who they know is at risk, who has psychological issues. They are predators.
But it's not just the psychopaths. There are other people who perhaps are behind bars who may engage in that kind of predatory behavior. They see the employee as a mark. It's an easier way to do time. But let's point out it's not all inmates who have that kind of predatory thinking.
PAUL: All right. Jeff Gardere, so appreciate your expertise. Thank you very much.
GARDERE: My pleasure.
PAUL: We are continuing, of course, certainly to follow the manhunt in New York, as well as our second big story of the day.
The shoot-out at police headquarters in Dallas overnight, we have new pictures coming to us as to the damage that has been done there, and the ongoing standoff that is still happening outside a restaurant parking lot right now with the suspect.
[07:46:59] BLACKWELL: New pictures from the scene of breaking news this morning in Dallas. This tweeted out just moments ago. You see that area pretty much in the center of your screen that has been singed. An explosive device here, this tweet with a picture, this is where the explosive coordinates robot attempted to move one of the bags, the bags being those suspicious bags that were found outside the police department headquarters in Dallas. You see there on the left of the screen, one of the cars has been burned, the windshield shattered there. Some damage to the other cars as well.
We've got another photograph here that is just tweeted out by Dallas police on their official Twitter page where you see the bullet holes in the windshield and that has been written up or described as a picture of the squad car that was shot at. But fortunately here, no officers were injured. That is the report we are getting throughout this hours long standoff and event in Dallas. No officers have been injured. But as we know that armored vehicle this morning after about 12:30 local time rammed into a police cruiser and then shots were fired. You see the shots fired here at the headquarters. But no officers injured. Ongoing now is the standoff at a local fast food restaurant in the parking lot there as they try to get one, possibly more, suspects to turn themselves in, to surrender. One has identified himself as James Boulware, white male, 5'10", about 200 pound, but officers are still trying to confirm he is, indeed, James Boulware.
PAUL: A lot of the video we have gotten of the initial attack as the department said, "We are under attack this morning", came from people who were in buildings surrounding it, came from people who are in apartments.
One of those people is Rick Birt, who is on the phone with us now.
And, Rick, I'm looking at the police department Twitter feed and they are indicating something I think is probably something you may be feeling or some of the people around you may be feeling that gives some sort of frantic or frustration, some illustration of what's going on because the police department tweeted out, we are working as quickly as we can to get people back in their residences near the Dallas PD headquarters, could still be several hours, the delay is because we must resume the search for additional explosive devices. Please be patient.
So, Rick, where are -- I know that you were evacuated. Where are you? And what is the atmosphere there?
RICK BIRT, EYEWITNESS (via telephone): I'm in a hallway on the ground floor of our apartment building right now. And people are pretty somber right now. Most of us have been up all night, so a lot of people are just sitting around.
Just about 20 minutes ago, the police came through on their second sweep with search dogs. And really we're just waiting around for the all clear right now.
[07:50:02] PAUL: OK. So take us back to the moment that you heard the -- if people are just joining us, when you heard the shots fired. Help us understand what happened.
BIRT: We were, my wife and I were in our apartment. And at 12:24, I looked at the clock when we heard loud noises. My wife asked me if I thought it was gunfire. And I said, it sounded more like a jackhammer.
I also initially thought, well, hey, it could be heavy weaponry. But I couldn't think of who would have that. And plus, it was operating at a lower cyclical rate, more like semiautomatic than automatic fire. That's why I assumed it was something manmade like a jackhammer.
Then I went to the window, opened the window and heard snaps overhead. And since I was a marine, I knew it was gunfire coming at our direction.
PAUL: Rick, we're just so glad that you're OK, that everybody else is OK.
He said earlier that he's holed up in that hallway there were about 50 to 60 people. Again, we'll keep you posted as the morning progresses. Thank you so much, Rick Birt.
And we're going to be right back.
BIRT: You're welcome.
[07:55:00] BLACKWELL: Welcome back to NEW DAY SATURDAY.
We, of course, continue to move forward on our breaking news this morning out of Dallas. We just received from a Dallas major there with the police department, Max Geron, that the headquarters building has been cleared, meaning there's no longer a threat to the facility. However, the ongoing standoff of potential negotiations with one suspect continues. We'll get back to that in a moment.
But this could be a really important day in the race for the White House of 2016. Hillary Clinton is expected to get personal later this morning when she gives her first major campaign speech since announcing her presidential run in April. The former secretary of state will speak on Roosevelt Island in New York and that's where our Brianna Keilar is this morning.
Brianna, good morning to you.
Why did she and the campaign choose Roosevelt Island for this speech?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: She chose this, Victor, for really the imagery. This is why her campaign shows it. We are here at Four Freedoms Park, that's on the southern end of Roosevelt Island, which is situated right between Manhattan and Queens and Brooklyn.
So, the Four Freedoms Park is, of course, a reference to Franklin Roosevelt. And this is -- this is an icon that Hillary Clinton, between Franklin Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt. She's talked a lot about over the years, Eleanor Roosevelt especially, so there's that.
And also I think that here she's going to talk a lot about how she's fighting for the middle class. But I'm not sure we are going to hear any big policy unveiling as we have heard from those associated with her campaign. This is going to be about why she is running and as she looks to reintroduce herself to American voters, it's interesting that she's looking back to the past. Not just the Roosevelts, but we expect that she'll talk a lot about Dorothy Rodham, her mother, who had a very hard life.
So, at this point, though, the challenges for Hillary Clinton, even though she's, by far and away, the frontrunner in the Democratic field, she's been having problems with the polls lately with voters, Democratic voters, feeling that she's not trustworthy. They do, however, feel more so that she's competent. And so, we'll wait to see during the speech if there's enough meat on the bones when it comes to policies to make some Democratic supporters or possible non-supporters who are waiting to hear what she says to satisfy, Victor.
BLACKWELL: And her husband, former president Bill Clinton, had a pretty revealing conversation with Jake Tapper. He takes over "STATE OF THE UNION" this weekend.
Quickly, what roles do we expect the former president to play today?
KEILAR: It's going to be minimized. You recall back in 2008, while Bill Clinton is a very powerful surrogate for Democrats, he also did Hillary Clinton a little bit of damage in 2007 and 2008.
So, he's going to take a backseat. He'll come in and help out the way he did in that interview with Jake Tapper. A lot of people saw him sort of softening Hillary Clinton and humanizing him the way many candidate spouses do. But he'll be here, Victor, but it's telling we don't expect him to speak.
BLACKWELL: All right. We'll see what happens. Brianna Keilar there in Roosevelt Island for us in New York -- thank you.
PAUL: So, Hillary Clinton is having her big day on the campaign trail, so is Republican Florida Governor Jeb Bush, though. He's been meeting with European leaders this week. In fact, this morning, we understand he visited a tech center in Estonia.
Well, CNN political reporter Stephen Collinson has been following all this.
So, Stephen, we are again talking about two big names in politics, Bush and Clinton, Back in the spotlight. How do you believe voters are going to react to these two families yet again?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, it's interesting. When you look at polls, American voters say they don't like dynasties in American politics, but yet there's the possibility that we're going to have a Clinton against Bush presidential race.
It's very interesting. Jeb Bush just conducted this tour of Germany and Eastern Europe as a way of sort of bolstering his foreign policy credentials. He actually did quite well. There's been some trips to Europe recently when the Republican presidential candidates have caused gaffes, they've had trouble themselves across and they got into trouble. And Jeb Bush's tour went quite well. He was in Germany and was in the Baltic States.
And he put across a foreign policy vision of someone that's going to be tough on Russian President Vladimir Putin. And I think he enhanced his credentials. That's going to be an interesting thing to watch in this campaign once he launches his campaign formally on Monday.
PAUL: You know, in terms of Hillary Clinton, we heard Brianna talk about how she may have somewhat of a shift in her story today focusing more on her Rodham roots than her Clinton roots, talking about her parents, her mother, specifically, who was abandoned by her parents, we understand. Her campaign communications director said, "If you want to understand Hillary Clinton of what's motivated her career, of fighting for kids and families, her mother is a part of her story."
Will that be effective? Will that be endearing, do you think?
COLLINSON: I think so. And it's also a way for Hillary Clinton to try and reintroduce herself to voters. It seems odd that, you know, such a well-known person is going to try and put a new image of herself to the world.